Current Events > a minimum wage should be a livable wage

(+) Yeah! (+)

Peter_Giffyndor posted...

clearaflagrantj posted...

Peter_Giffyndor posted...

If you're working min wage, that's a personal failing, has fuck all to do with society.

Plenty of people are literally incapable of finding better work, whether it's the job market at large or the fact they are genuinely unable to work smarter and become specialized, does that mean we should just let them live on the streets and die?

Sucks to suck I guess. Can't help everyone, but fucking it up for everyone else to cater to the extreme minority is just liberal idiocy.
Work or starve, period. If you want nicer things, get a nicer job. Stop making excuses.

For those that are mentally or physically disabled that's different and there are a plethora of government programs to help them.

Alright so we're getting rid of the minimum wage because it hurts companies and they are entitled to their profits. 45 million Americans, or roughly 15% of the country, is discarded like trash, "sucks to suck."

What do you expect them to do? Jobs are offering less money, there is not enough to go around, they're going to fucking steal and murder from the other 85% of the country. You're going to turn America into one gigantic Detroit.

dolomedes posted...

vicedungwinsgam posted...

All I can say is fucking imagine going to bat for an economic system that will allow one person to have enough money that he could literally distribute it evenly to millions of people and they'd all still be extremely well off

Imagine defending a world like that

It's the most sickening thing about humanity

dolomedes likes this post

We could confiscate all the wealth in the world, and evenly redistribute it to everyone (approximately $50000 each). I guarantee you we'd be right back to severe wealth inequity within a decade, if not much sooner.

Kolibri X posted...

High school tier jobs are meant to be temporary. Get roommates or get a real job.

Theyre really not, though. Have you stopped to think about what all the places that employ high school kids would be like if those were their *only* employees? It wouldnt work, they need adult employees too
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El Mexicano Texano posted...

If you make $15 in Houston you're pretty much middle class ask @Cocytus he lives here. You're only concern is saving enough for a house but after that you're set.

Yeah you can make some money in Houston. Cheap to live here, mostly.

Questionmarktarius posted...

dolomedes posted...

vicedungwinsgam posted...

All I can say is fucking imagine going to bat for an economic system that will allow one person to have enough money that he could literally distribute it evenly to millions of people and they'd all still be extremely well off

Imagine defending a world like that

It's the most sickening thing about humanity

dolomedes likes this post

We could confiscate all the wealth in the world, and evenly redistribute it to everyone (approximately $50000 each). I guarantee you we'd be right back to severe wealth inequity within a decade, if not much sooner.

Because that wealth inequality also comes with a lack of basic financial training. Most poorer people would have no idea what to do with a large sum of money if they received it beyond buy stuff I need
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Questionmarktarius posted...

We could confiscate all the wealth in the world, and evenly redistribute it to everyone (approximately $50000 each). I guarantee you we'd be right back to severe wealth inequity within a decade, if not much sooner.

Well, yeah. $50000 doesn't last forever, it's incomes that need to change.
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Kolibri X posted...

YOUHAVENOHOPE posted...

Kolibri X posted...

If you want to live on your own you're going to need to aim higher and try harder. I could not afford to live on my own until I was 29. I know it feels bad to make 20k a year but these kids who think they deserve a livable wage at 21 are impatient and delusional if they think they deserve their own place with their McJob.

But that's literally how the generation before you did it
They bought a house on a single income source, and a car, and provided for the family
and they've suckered you into believing that they didn't do it like that

that not moving out until you're 29 is normal

We live in a different era. We aren't going back to the 50s. Sorry. Parents or roommates.

The fact that you're okay with less is kind boggling to me. Like you're just fucking cool with not having what the previous generation had.

EpicMickeyDrew posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

We could confiscate all the wealth in the world, and evenly redistribute it to everyone (approximately $50000 each). I guarantee you we'd be right back to severe wealth inequity within a decade, if not much sooner.

Well, yeah. $50000 doesn't last forever, it's incomes that need to change.

If you redistributed incomes instead, you'd be getting way less than $50k a year.
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thronedfire2 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

dolomedes posted...

vicedungwinsgam posted...

All I can say is fucking imagine going to bat for an economic system that will allow one person to have enough money that he could literally distribute it evenly to millions of people and they'd all still be extremely well off

Imagine defending a world like that

It's the most sickening thing about humanity

dolomedes likes this post

We could confiscate all the wealth in the world, and evenly redistribute it to everyone (approximately $50000 each). I guarantee you we'd be right back to severe wealth inequity within a decade, if not much sooner.

Because that wealth inequality also comes with a lack of basic financial training. Most poorer people would have no idea what to do with a large sum of money if they received it beyond buy stuff I need

No amount of wage floor can ever solve this. We'd just end up with burger-flippers wearing fur coats and still being broke.

thronedfire2 posted...

Kolibri X posted...

High school tier jobs are meant to be temporary. Get roommates or get a real job.

Theyre really not, though. Have you stopped to think about what all the places that employ high school kids would be like if those were their *only* employees? It wouldnt work, they need adult employees too

Yeah, like their bosses.
Unknown5uspect posted...

The fact that you're okay with less is kind boggling to me. Like you're just fucking cool with not having what the previous generation had.

I've accepted it like we all should if we want to get real about it. The previous generations lived in different times.
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Sativa_Rose posted...

If you redistributed incomes instead, you'd be getting way less than $50k a year.

A "maximum wage" would be nothing but a death-spiral.
Well, almost nothing - it would be a humongous vector for fraud, graft, and "fringe benefits".

Kolibri X posted...

thronedfire2 posted...

Kolibri X posted...

High school tier jobs are meant to be temporary. Get roommates or get a real job.

Theyre really not, though. Have you stopped to think about what all the places that employ high school kids would be like if those were their *only* employees? It wouldnt work, they need adult employees too

Yeah, like their bosses.

So whos gonna work while the kids are in school? Or is this hypothetical boss who surely went to college and got a degree only working during the summer because he has no employees the rest of the year?
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clearaflagrantj posted...

Peter_Giffyndor posted...

clearaflagrantj posted...

Peter_Giffyndor posted...

If you're working min wage, that's a personal failing, has fuck all to do with society.

Plenty of people are literally incapable of finding better work, whether it's the job market at large or the fact they are genuinely unable to work smarter and become specialized, does that mean we should just let them live on the streets and die?

Sucks to suck I guess. Can't help everyone, but fucking it up for everyone else to cater to the extreme minority is just liberal idiocy.
Work or starve, period. If you want nicer things, get a nicer job. Stop making excuses.

For those that are mentally or physically disabled that's different and there are a plethora of government programs to help them.

Alright so we're getting rid of the minimum wage because it hurts companies and they are entitled to their profits. 45 million Americans, or roughly 15% of the country, is discarded like trash, "sucks to suck."

What do you expect them to do? Jobs are offering less money, there is not enough to go around, they're going to fucking steal and murder from the other 85% of the country. You're going to turn America into one gigantic Detroit.

I certainly don't think we should effectively punish and tax the remaining 85%, that's madness. Also "I" am not doing shit. Your beef is with the Democratic party as they're in the business of keeping people poor and reliant on government handouts. So if you want to blame anyone, blame them. Jobs are hanging off of trees right now, ot is an employees market. There is no valid excuse for an able bodied adult to be "stuck" making minimum wage.

Peter_Giffyndor posted...

Jobs are hanging off of trees right now

45 million Americans below the poverty line, contract and gig work is running rampant in society, more and more people are forced to take jobs with shit like Uber and Lyft to get by, you are living in a delusional bubble

As a compromise for multiple sides of the argument in here, maybe they should promote job pathways for people in Minimum wage jobs so they don't stick with the same job forever, give them ideas to work toward within a certain time span.

It's not like they usually keep them for years except for certain jobs out there.
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thronedfire2 posted...

So whos gonna work while the kids are in school? Or is this hypothetical boss who surely went to college and got a degree only working during the summer because he has no employees the rest of the year?

Ok, it seems you took my "high school tier" job a bit too literally. I mean like a job a young adult out of high school could work with very little expedience/education. Sometimes adults temporary have to take these jobs out of necessity but when it's the best an adult man can do for himself, people think yeah he kinda fucked up.
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Kolibri X posted...

thronedfire2 posted...

So whos gonna work while the kids are in school? Or is this hypothetical boss who surely went to college and got a degree only working during the summer because he has no employees the rest of the year?

Ok, it seems you took my "high school tier" job a bit too literally. I mean like a job a young adult out of high school could work with very little expedience/education. Sometimes adults temporary have to take these jobs out of necessity but when it's the best an adult man can do for himself, people think yeah he kinda fucked up.

"The average age of fast-food workers is 29. 40% are 25 or older; 31% have at least attempted college; more than 26% are parents raising children."

NY Times

If you cant feed them dont breed them
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In San Fransisco, the livable wage is like $107,000 a year.

Imagine fast food workers being paid that much, lol.

Our economy is broken, and it is going to get a LOT worse in the next couple of decades. Worse than people expect, I think.
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Unless you're on the way to become a store manager, don't expect a middle-class lifestyle in retail.

Try being a retail meat cutter and get back to me on that. Though I do admit, depending on the store, you'd need it to be a union job to get paid that much.
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Cocytus posted...

El Mexicano Texano posted...

If you make $15 in Houston you're pretty much middle class ask @Cocytus he lives here. You're only concern is saving enough for a house but after that you're set.

Yeah you can make some money in Houston. Cheap to live here, mostly.

It's relatively cheap compared to the rest of the country, but it's not nearly as cheap as it used to be. It's getting more and more expensive. Average rent is about $1,350 a month. $15 an hour would not cut it I don't think.
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DifferentialEquation posted...

Disagree. It's not the employer's responsibly to make sure you have enough money to live on. They simply pay you commensurate with the skill required, how hard it would be to replace you, etc. (they don't always succeed at this, but it's not relevant to the point at hand) but that doesn't mean someone is automatically entitled to have all their living expenses covered simply because they complete tasks for 40 hours per week for someone else.

Also, it's interfering with individuals' freedom to unreasonable extent. For the sake of argument, suppose that it's agreed upon that this livable wage is $15 per hour. Why should someone not be free to compete and offer to do it for $14 per hour? Especially if it's someone who's young and has no work experience, offering to do it for a little less might be the only way they can compete against others.

Man, you would be right at home back in the Industrial Revolution.
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spanky1 posted...

Cocytus posted...

El Mexicano Texano posted...

If you make $15 in Houston you're pretty much middle class ask @Cocytus he lives here. You're only concern is saving enough for a house but after that you're set.

Yeah you can make some money in Houston. Cheap to live here, mostly.

It's relatively cheap compared to the rest of the country, but it's not nearly as cheap as it used to be. It's getting more and more expensive. Average rent is about $1,350 a month. $15 an hour would not cut it I don't think.

I'm at $17.50/hr. in Houston. Not the most comfortable living, but it really isn't that bad.

From what I know the economy is going to tank within a few years rather than decades, 2019-2023 somewhere around there.

This country isn't going to last with the way people treat eachother lately, and especially in politics unless some needed changes get put in place.
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Unknown5uspect posted...

spanky1 posted...

Cocytus posted...

El Mexicano Texano posted...

If you make $15 in Houston you're pretty much middle class ask @Cocytus he lives here. You're only concern is saving enough for a house but after that you're set.

Yeah you can make some money in Houston. Cheap to live here, mostly.

It's relatively cheap compared to the rest of the country, but it's not nearly as cheap as it used to be. It's getting more and more expensive. Average rent is about $1,350 a month. $15 an hour would not cut it I don't think.

I'm at $17.50/hr. in Houston. Not the most comfortable living, but it really isn't that bad.

What part of Houston do you live in? What's your monthly rent?
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Kaliesto posted...

From what I know the economy is going to tank within a few years rather than decades, 2019-2023 somewhere around there.

This country isn't going to last with the way people treat eachother lately, and especially in politics unless some needed changes get put in place.

So many signs that spell doom. Wages aren't keeping up with inflation, the cost of housing is sky rocketing and wages definitely aren't keeping up with that, the cost of both medical care and the insurance to cover it are both increasing at staggering paces, the gulf between the middle class and very rich is continuing to widen, automation will take more jobs, AI will take still more jobs that you didn't think would be taken, and more stuff I'm sure I've forgotten. We're going to be fucked.

What you're going to see is a LOT more people living together in shared homes, renting out spare bedrooms, etc.
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clearaflagrantj posted...

"The average age of fast-food workers is 29. 40% are 25 or older; 31% have at least attempted college; more than 26% are parents raising children."

NY Times

Ok. I'm not surprised. And I would also say that's unfortunate because it's still a high school tier job.
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spanky1 posted...

Unknown5uspect posted...

spanky1 posted...

Cocytus posted...

El Mexicano Texano posted...

If you make $15 in Houston you're pretty much middle class ask @Cocytus he lives here. You're only concern is saving enough for a house but after that you're set.

Yeah you can make some money in Houston. Cheap to live here, mostly.

It's relatively cheap compared to the rest of the country, but it's not nearly as cheap as it used to be. It's getting more and more expensive. Average rent is about $1,350 a month. $15 an hour would not cut it I don't think.

I'm at $17.50/hr. in Houston. Not the most comfortable living, but it really isn't that bad.

What part of Houston do you live in? What's your monthly rent?

Oh don't get me wrong I live in Alief. 1/1 for $850. Kinda steep but it's a safer part of Alief.

You can get spots in like Spice or 9700 for <$600 if you wanna do that to yourself though.

Or y'know get a house in South Union if you really about that life.

I'm trying to get to Westchase but those prices won't stop going up and I gave up on Woodlands cause that area's getting insane.

spanky1 posted...

Kaliesto posted...

From what I know the economy is going to tank within a few years rather than decades, 2019-2023 somewhere around there.

This country isn't going to last with the way people treat eachother lately, and especially in politics unless some needed changes get put in place.

So many signs that spell doom. Wages aren't keeping up with inflation, the cost of housing is sky rocketing and wages definitely aren't keeping up with that, the cost of both medical care and the insurance to cover it are both increasing at staggering paces, the gulf between the middle class and very rich is continuing to widen, automation will take more jobs, AI will take still more jobs that you didn't think would be taken, and more stuff I'm sure I've forgotten. We're going to be fucked.

What you're going to see is a LOT more people living together in shared homes, renting out spare bedrooms, etc.

Personally I'm not too worried about Robotics as I think it will help a lot in the future, yes it will phase out jobs but that has always been true for centuries as our technology got better.

The only thing concerning is how people can adapt to the change, and if they're willing to try alternative jobs.
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"Can't I just drop out of high school and flip burgers and have a 2 bedroom apartment, 3 kids, 12 dogs, internet, cable, newest video game consoles with full library, and a complimentary netflix subscription?"
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REMercsChamp posted...

"Can't I just drop out of high school and flip burgers and have a 2 bedroom apartment, 3 kids, 12 dogs, internet, cable, newest video game consoles with full library, and a complimentary netflix subscription?"

Thats not accurate.
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https://www.nasdaq.com/article/mcdonalds-sample-budget-sheet-is-laughable-but-its-implications-are-not-cm261920
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rexcrk posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

"Can't I just drop out of high school and flip burgers and have a 2 bedroom apartment, 3 kids, 12 dogs, internet, cable, newest video game consoles with full library, and a complimentary netflix subscription?"

Thats not accurate.

Twelve dogs, in an apartment?

YOUHAVENOHOPE posted...

I agree, Ultima.

As long as you're working and contributing to society, I think you should be able to afford your basic necessities. Shelter, clothing, food, water, transportation, electricity.

That is possible on min wage...

People live too extravagantly now. Min wage is not luxurious, but it can meet basic needs.
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rexcrk posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

"Can't I just drop out of high school and flip burgers and have a 2 bedroom apartment, 3 kids, 12 dogs, internet, cable, newest video game consoles with full library, and a complimentary netflix subscription?"

Thats not accurate.

Forgot the 10 dollar coffees and 1000 dollar cell phone
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Villain posted...

https://www.nasdaq.com/article/mcdonalds-sample-budget-sheet-is-laughable-but-its-implications-are-not-cm261920

The edited budget allots $50 rather than $0 to heating, but curiously enough, the Spanish-language sample only allots $30 to heating. Payments for groceries, gas, clothing, and possible childcare expenses are also not accounted for.

That's what "monthly spending money" is for. Your budget doesn't end just because the pre-made one runs out of lines.

You actually don't need cable these days, just get yourself one of those streaming boxes and you practically have almost everything, SlingTV you only pay like 20-30 for the good stuff compared to regular cable that can cost around 100-200 dollars.

or hell Youtube is it's own thing nowadays.

Given there is a few disadvantages, but you save money.
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clearaflagrantj posted...

Peter_Giffyndor posted...

Jobs are hanging off of trees right now

45 million Americans below the poverty line, contract and gig work is running rampant in society, more and more people are forced to take jobs with shit like Uber and Lyft to get by, you are living in a delusional bubble

I'm actually living quite well, thanks. If that's seriously your attitude and assessment of the market, then that speaks volumes to your work ethic, maturity, and ability. There's quite a bit out there for folks that set their sights a bit higher than temp work and driving a car around LMFAO.

I don't think 45 million Americans is something to laugh off about, that's a problem.
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Kaliesto posted...

spanky1 posted...

Kaliesto posted...

From what I know the economy is going to tank within a few years rather than decades, 2019-2023 somewhere around there.

This country isn't going to last with the way people treat eachother lately, and especially in politics unless some needed changes get put in place.

So many signs that spell doom. Wages aren't keeping up with inflation, the cost of housing is sky rocketing and wages definitely aren't keeping up with that, the cost of both medical care and the insurance to cover it are both increasing at staggering paces, the gulf between the middle class and very rich is continuing to widen, automation will take more jobs, AI will take still more jobs that you didn't think would be taken, and more stuff I'm sure I've forgotten. We're going to be fucked.

What you're going to see is a LOT more people living together in shared homes, renting out spare bedrooms, etc.

Personally I'm not too worried about Robotics as I think it will help a lot in the future, yes it will phase out jobs but that has always been true for centuries as our technology got better.

The only thing concerning is how people can adapt to the change, and if they're willing to try alternative jobs.

We've only seen society adapt to physical labor automation. The difference in the coming years will be AI. Jobs you thought were safe will be taken. Office jobs. Stuff like that.
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The inability of people in this topic to discuss past a black/white scenario has prevented any fruitful development from taking place, but that's like every topic.

Apparently, there is no middle ground between paying people what they don't deserve and paying people a slave wage.

10/10 folks, keep the good work up!
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Questionmarktarius posted...

Villain posted...

https://www.nasdaq.com/article/mcdonalds-sample-budget-sheet-is-laughable-but-its-implications-are-not-cm261920

The edited budget allots $50 rather than $0 to heating, but curiously enough, the Spanish-language sample only allots $30 to heating. Payments for groceries, gas, clothing, and possible childcare expenses are also not accounted for.

That's what "monthly spending money" is for. Your budget doesn't end just because the pre-made one runs out of lines.

the budget is laughable

$100 a month for groceries, toiletries, gasoline, clothes and etc? Yeah OK
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MaverickXeo posted...

YOUHAVENOHOPE posted...

I agree, Ultima.

As long as you're working and contributing to society, I think you should be able to afford your basic necessities. Shelter, clothing, food, water, transportation, electricity.

That is possible on min wage...

People live too extravagantly now. Min wage is not luxurious, but it can meet basic needs.

Anywhere, really. Sometimes you need a roommate or make other cuts, but it can work... many people are able to do this, are they not?
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Villain posted...

$100 a month for groceries, toiletries, gasoline, clothes and etc? Yeah OK

$800.

due to the "2nd income" which is also laughable
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@SpinKirby posted...

The inability of people in this topic to discuss past a black/white scenario has prevented any fruitful development from taking place, but that's like every topic.

Apparently, there is no middle ground between paying people what they don't deserve and paying people a slave wage.

10/10 folks, keep the good work up!

So what's your idea of a middle ground?