Current Events > They told me stands were supposed to make Jojo better (minor spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm only watching the anime on Toonami, but I have to say, Stardust Crusaders has been a long, tedious trek of battle of the weeks. The series was way more interesting when Hamon was the main battle mechanic.
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I agree. Maybe it gets better in later seasons, but so far the Johnathon/Joseph stuff with Hamon was way better than the stands.

*shrug*

I guess it's not for some people. I always loved them because I loved seeing what cool shit they'd pull off to beat them.
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babyeatermax posted...

I'm only watching the anime on Toonami

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70utG1L5bfU" data-time="
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At first stands are not that great. Later on they start doing some really interesting things with them.
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Diamond is Unbreakable>Battle Tenancy>Diamond Is Unbreakable>Phantom Blood.
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There are so many crazy battles and bizarre situations that justify Stands replacing Hamon. Now of course the transition to Stands was a rocky one, but there are other important reasons Part 2 is better than Part 3. Jotaro as a protagonist, the anime adaption having around 10 too many episodes, the entire premise, etc.

Part 4 is head and shoulders above all the other animated parts, but if you hate Stands or even just the Stand-of-the-week format then idk if it's even worth going on past part 3.
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JustMyOpinion posted...

And Jotaro is boring af. His battle with D'Arby was great and the end of Steely Dan. Other than that he is not a good protagonist.

Old Joseph and DArby are the best parts of stardust crusaders
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Stardust Crusaders was finding their feet with the Stand concept. Its Part 4 and Part 5 when they start exploring just what Stands COULD do, and Part 6 they get REALLY creative.
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Stands are good because Araki isnt bound to creating lore-consistent characters that can challenge the heroes, like vampires or pillar men. Anyone can have a stand.

It really ends up diversifying the stories later down the road. One of the series most popular villains (next to Dio) is basically "what if a normal dude who was evil had a stand?".
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SmidgeIsntBack posted...

There are so many crazy battles and bizarre situations that justify Stands replacing Hamon. Now of course the transition to Stands was a rocky one, but there are other important reasons Part 2 is better than Part 3. Jotaro as a protagonist, the anime adaption having around 10 too many episodes, the entire premise, etc.

Part 4 is head and shoulders above all the other animated parts, but if you hate Stands or even just the Stand-of-the-week format then idk if it's even worth going on past part 3.

Part 4 has more mini arcs than stands of the week.

Most stand users have 2-3 episodes and there is an overarching plot that is less in the background than DIO was in part 2.

The first half of stardust was 1 episode per stand usually and DIO basically sits in his lair the entirety of the both seasons aside from the last few episodes.
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Stardust Crusaders is good just far too long
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babyeatermax posted...

I'm only watching the anime on Toonami, but I have to say, Stardust Crusaders has been a long, tedious trek of battle of the weeks. The series was way more interesting when Hamon was the main battle mechanic.

I agree 100%

Loved the 1st season. I made it through Stardust Crusaders and watched some of Battle in Egypt before throwing in the towel. Extremely dissapointing.
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I loved Phantom Blood and Battle Tendency. Stardust Crusaders has been a lot more boring than I would like to admit. Which is sad because I really wanted to like it.

Old Joseph and DIO are the best parts, but they don't get enough time to shine. Best part so far was when Joseph did his "The next thing you'll say is..." bit to Empress.

I also agree that I don't really like Stands as much as I did Hamon.
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Contrary to whatever Jojo stans says, Stands unquestionably destroyed the series' sense of consistency. Before Stands, Jojo was more of a conventional fighting manga with its Ripple mechanics. Once Stands came in, it turned into a battle pet esque series. It's like turning Dragon Ball into Pokemon. Simply put, it doesn't even feel like the series, and that shows a lack of consistency. Another problem is that once Stands came in Part 3, the story became procedural ("episodic", as many people would call it). That story format clashes with how the first two Parts were sequential ("serial", as many people would call it).

Simply put, looking at the franchise as a whole, the first two Parts just don't mesh well with the rest of the series. Everything past the second part should have just been a different series.
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Freddie_Mercury posted...

babyeatermax posted...

I'm only watching the anime on Toonami

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70utG1L5bfU" data-time="

Joseph is the best
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The only interesting part of Jojo was when Joseph pulled out the Tommy gun

It gets better in DiU.

And if you have such a problem, try reading Steel Ball Run. It basically combines hamon and stands.
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Jotaro is one of the blandest characters ever
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I dunno, I just dislike the concept of stands. I feel like battles are less about skill and more about who wins the genetic lottery.
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sobergermanguy posted...

I dunno, I just dislike the concept of stands. I feel like battles are less about skill and more about who wins the genetic lottery.

I mean yeah some Stands are OP by design, but even if a Stand appears useless, it can be deadly under very specific circumstances set up by the user ahead of time, at which point the main characters have to figure out how their own Stands' abilities can work around them. It's less about physical ability and more a battle of wits. And it can get even more complex from there because not every Stand user turns out to be a villain but they still appear and reappear in the story. There's so much more skill and versatility in using Stands than in using Hamon once the writing allows for it.
Another thing: They're designed to be bullshit, whereas Hamon is like every other shonen ability whereby it starts out rigid and slowly becomes more bullshit over time.

Why all this isn't readily apparent in Part 3 is because much of the components are very simple. The entire plot is about traveling from point A to point B, the hero's Stands are very simple and very strong, every other Stand user is trying to kill them, and the villain's motive is clear from the get-go and he never steps in until the very end. All these things change in later parts, usually for the better.
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Part 2 is really the only interesting part of Jojo overall. Part 1 is mostly just a very cliche and generic action-adventure story. Part 2 was so much better and is where the series peaked. That's where the series should have ended, really; everything else just doesn't mesh well with it.
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babyeatermax posted...

I'm only watching the anime on Toonami, but I have to say, Stardust Crusaders has been a long, tedious trek of battle of the weeks. The series was way more interesting when Hamon was the main battle mechanic.

Stardust Crusaders is the growing pain of the series. Stands in the first half of Stardust Crusaders are extremely infantile in their construction. I like comparing it to Yugioh since both even have Egyptian Gods in their first arc and really grow from there. Stardust Crusaders establishes an interesting concept of characters fighting with secondary humanoids in front of them. There's a lot of rough stuff, some ideas or rules created that never get brought up again, etc as Araki feels what works and what doesn't.

As a massive fan of Jojo (manga as well as animation), I can say confidently that the first two thirds of Stardust Crusaders are by far and away the most boring stretch of content in the series. It is seriously all uphill from there. Jotaro is also one of the least interesting protagonists, he rarely gets to shine because Polnareff and them get a lot of fights of their own. He has one truly shining moment in my mind involving playing a videogame which is during Egyptian Gods.

Besides getting much better pacing and arguably more interesting characters, stand construction changes massively once the Egyptian Gods are introduced. While you get glimpses with stuff like Death 13 or Hanged Man of what Araki is capable of, EG is when stands become consistently a lot more interesting and nerve-wracking. While the first stands all focus on how they fight (fists, fire, sword, projectiles, grapple), stands from EG onwards stop being concerned with having a specific way they fight and start being about the special power each one has. Part 4 does a really good job of showing how stands can function outside of combat, deciding to put the series in a more 'slice of life' setting. After that, Part 5 is basically Stardust Crusaders except far more interesting characters and the some of the best stand fights in the series.

Also obligatory sub>dub, read the manga, etc
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Out of all the characters in Stardust Crusaders, Polnareff and Iggy were the most unnecessary. The whole subplot with Polnareff trying to avenge his sister was redundant and felt like padding. And Iggy seemed like a forced comic relief.

Honestly, I never liked the idea of the Joestar Group gaining long term allies over the course of their journey in Part 3. The group should have just remained the way it was in the beginning: https://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/File:Letsgo.jpg
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its almost like a 13 episode story has quicker pacing than a 48 episode one split over two seasons
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Polnareff is the actual protagonist of Stardust tho
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SmidgeIsntBack posted...

Polnareff is the actual protagonist of Stardust tho

Definitely felt like he got the most development and screentime
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Avdol sacrificing himself to save Polnareff not once, but TWICE was stupid af smh
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I would gladly do the same for the true symbol of France.


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The Zeppeli's trained their entire lives to master Hamon and they would lose a fight to a dog. Imagine that
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