Board 8 > Well, Symphony of the Night is pretty fantastic.

(+) Yeah! (+)

JonThePenguin posted...

Corrik posted...

I am super salty that Castlevania says I am missing one room from 200.6% to not get me 200/200.

Post your map?

I'm not at home. I have poured over the map. I am convinced I have everything and the game fucked me.
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Corrik posted...

JonThePenguin posted...

Corrik posted...

I am super salty that Castlevania says I am missing one room from 200.6% to not get me 200/200.

Post your map?

I'm not at home. I have poured over the map. I am convinced I have everything and the game fucked me.

Did you get the jewel sword? You'll know if you did, and I'll bet you anything it's that since you poured all over the map and it's one single room.
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StartTheMachine posted...

Corrik posted...

JonThePenguin posted...

Corrik posted...

I am super salty that Castlevania says I am missing one room from 200.6% to not get me 200/200.

Post your map?

I'm not at home. I have poured over the map. I am convinced I have everything and the game fucked me.

Did you get the jewel sword? You'll know if you did, and I'll bet you anything it's that since you poured all over the map and it's one single room.

I know it is one single room. I am just not sure which. I haven't played the game in like 9 years. I just remember it pissing me off cuz I have done the entire map countless times before but the one time I play it Xbox I was short a room.

I assume I have the sword familiar.
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@StartTheMachine

https://fantasyanime.com/valhalla/castlevaniasotn/castlevsotn_secrets.htm
^
Since you beat the game, this is worth a look.

RonMegaWentEvil posted...

My favorite boss is Beelzebub, because he's so disturbing.

He got a significant buff in difficulty in the Chapter 9 DLC in Castlevania: Harmony of Despair with new attacks.

My personal favorite Castlevania is Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse. I like all the branching paths you can take as well as having different partners.

Of the 3D Castlevanias I have played, I enjoyed Castlevania: Curse of Darkness

Rondo of Blood (the original) is that good. One of the best of the classic style Vanias.

Dawn of Sorrow was solid. Some of the touch screen stuff with the later Magic Seals got ridiculous. Julius Mode is great.

Portrait of Ruin is good stuff except for the recycled paintings you go through later on in the game. The other playable characters after the main game is completed give it some good replay value. Also loved that both Michiru Yamane and Yuzo Koshiro worked on the soundtrack together.

Order of Ecclesia was, to me, the last good Metroidvania in the series IMO. The way the maps were structured was pretty good and you didn't really have to backtrack too much. Not saying it's a bad thing, I like backtracking when it's done right which the rest of the games of this style does a good job with.The difficulty in it was really good. It reminded me of the same difficulty as the linear style gameplay of the older Castlevanias that was sorely missing since Symphony of the Night. They especially did a good job with the Boss fights cause you actually have to learn how to take them down instead of brute forcing them.
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Order of Ecclesia has outstanding gameplay but I remember the map design for the castle being extremely disappointing. Like, it felt like they wanted the whole game to be like the earlier linear levels but just put a castle in because they "had to" and half-assed it. I haven't played the game since it came out so it might be time to revisit it.
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But has GOG played Bloodstained Curse of the Moon yet

Because I think it's just as good as Castlevania 3 if not better
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StartTheMachine posted...

MegaWentEvil posted...
Epyo posted...

I think my ranking of ones I've played more than 10 minutes of is:

Rondo of Blood > SotN > Curse of Darkness > Order of Ecclesia > Portrait of Ruin > Dawn of Sorrow > III > Aria of Sorrow > IV > Lament of Innocence > Chronicles (PSX) > Harmony of Dissonance > Circle of the Moon > CV1 > 64 > Judgment > Adventure Rebirth > Bloodlines > Dracula X (SNES) > II

And if I could include Bloodstained Curse of the Moon I bet it would be third or fourth :thinking_face:...

Rondo of Blood really is that good, huh? It is more old-school Castlevania style though, right? I couldn't possibly foresee myself liking it as much as this or the DS games if so; Metroidvanias are just one of my favorite genres period. I really need to go play like, Axiom Verge, Ori and the Blind Forest, and all those other more recent Metroidvania releases that people love so much.

Interesting that you think each DS Castlevania got better than the last. What's your reasoning there? The only way I could see that is in the bosses, but in terms of map design, I just really loved Dawn of Sorrow. Portrait was a neat hybrid of sorts though between the more confined, linear design of Ecclesia and the Metroidvania design of DoS (although it was obviously closer to DoS).

Yeah I looove Rondo, play it once a year or more. I need really interesting combat situations for me to truly love a Castlevania game, and I'd say Rondo is the best sidescroller action game ever, along with having probably top 5 music in the series, and great atmosphere and style (that Death fight is soooo cool IMO). I don't really care that much about exploration or abilities in Castlevania games, so those aren't dealbreakers for me.

A flaw in the series that affects a lot of the games, is feeling a little boring at times. For a lot of the metroidvania games, a lot of times it feels like I'm not exploring, I'm not making progress, I'm not having fun fights, I'm just filling in holes in my map. It can feel very rote, especially when replaying. Of the DS games, Dawn feels the most like that, I always feel like I'm entering a room, walking up to each enemy, attacking, walking forward again, not terribly interesting. I'm not sure I can ever play Dawn again because I dread filling in that boring upper-left area, or the boring cave areas (although I do adore that right-most tower area). In Portrait, I really love casting spells as Charlotte, that leads to weird combat that is kinda unlike any other action game. And Ecclesia, I feel like they did a great job on the combat situations in that game, it's one of the only metroidvania games out there that I would call challenging.

They're great games though, I think all the games on that list up through Aria I would call "Awesome", and then everything up through 64 I would call "Pretty Good", the others, "kinda bad".
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Corrik - I'm pretty sure the Sword familiar's area is a couple rooms wide, so it can't be that. As I stated earlier, no matter how much you poured over the map, unless you do this extremely weird trick by pure luck, there is pretty much no way to get the Jewel Sword without looking it up. Let me explain.

The Jewel Sword is found in a single room near the very beginning of the game. It's accessed from the hall with all the Mermans. You have to transform into a bat, use your charge attack through this rock underpass, then transform into a wolf and use the wolf's charge attack going the other direction back through the underpass. There are no hints whatsoever about this. So as I said, it's basically impossible to get unless by some insane blind luck. Though LOLIAmAnAlt earlier said he did just that...but I mean, those chances are just so astronomically low that he may be one of the few people in the history of the game to do such!

Now... I also just realized that the same room exists in the Inverted Castle, so...you would likely have been at 200.4% if you didn't get the Jewel Sword. Hmmm.

GOG - A lot of nifty info in that little link there so thanks for that! Though I think they got one thing wrong: it's when you double jump and hit a gold Medusa Head that you turn into the giant stone gargoyle thing. At least, that's what I read elsewhere and I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I did when it randomly happened to me in play!

Never played any of the early Castlevanias except Super IV, but your love of III explains why you also liked Bloodstained! Heard they were very similar. I've never played any of the 3D Castlevanias either but hear that I'm not missing much. I wouldn't be opposed to giving Curse of Darkness a shot though.

Interesting reasoning behind your DS Castlevania rankings and I'm largely with you on your likes and dislikes. The sealing stuff in Dawn of Sorrow was silly, but it was an early-era DS game when touch screen gimmicks were mandatory, y'know! It is one of the game's biggest flaws though and it would have been stronger without it. Agreed with Portrait of Ruin, though surprisingly I've always kind of liked "tougher" versions of older levels within the same game. So even though most people rightfully considered it a cheap way to lengthen the game, I'm actually partial to it. I kind of enjoyed it, even in PoR. As for Order of Ecclesia, I actually really enjoy the backtracking in these games. Nothing like the experience of growing stronger as a player and obtaining more moves only to go back and find new paths in old areas. But if it's not as much your thing, I could easily see why this would be your favorite of the DS bunch. No doubt I remember the bosses being the best I've played in the series.

Shake nailed my biggest complaint with Ecclesia -- the castle felt super shoehorned in and exploration is literally my favorite thing about these games. It was still a neat twist on the formula though, especially since DoS and PoR were the only two Castlevanias I'd played at that point.
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I take back what I just said about Ecclesia being the only challenging combat in a metroidvania, Circle of the Moon is so hard

ninkendo posted...

But has GOG played Bloodstained Curse of the Moon yet

Because I think it's just as good as Castlevania 3 if not better

I think so too, as awesome as CV3 is...
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I thought I did that just randomly jumping as the wolf while charging and broke that. I can't remember. Been years since I played it. Maybe I will load it up one day and check.
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Oh wait it was Epyo that loved Bloodstained! Yeah, GOG, go play that man.

Epyo - I agree a bit with your critique on the games sometimes being rote, and this is especially true for "item drops" and things like that in the nonlinear Castlevanias. I remember as a kid having the patience to actually 100% all the item drops in DoS, but maaaaan is that tedious and something I would never do now. And the whole soul system relied on random drops didn't it? Yeah, a replay might tarnish that game a tad in my mind, though I'm not certain. At least the luck stat exists to help speed the tedium up, but it's just kind of a silly thing to begin with. One of the reasons why Metroid is the superior series -- though mainly it's just because Metroid's atmosphere is godly.

I honestly never remember using Charlotte in Portrait like...at all. And yeah, Ecclesia totally has the best combat of the three.
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Corrik posted...

I thought I did that just randomly jumping as the wolf while charging and broke that. I can't remember. Been years since I played it. Maybe I will load it up one day and check.

You probably did break the rock by doing that but again...that's just getting the underpass opened up. You have to charge through the entire underpass first as a bat and then inexplicably transform immediately into a wolf and charge back the other way and a room suddenly opens up. It makes no sense. Just a weird little secret they put in the game.

And the Jewel Sword causes enemies to drop jewels like all the damn time. I got 70+ zircons after like an hour of using it.
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I think I pretty much exclusively play Portrait as Charlotte now that I think about it!! That's weird.
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Epyo posted...

I think I pretty much exclusively play Portrait as Charlotte now that I think about it!! That's weird.

I may be misremembering honestly. I haven't played that game since it came out, and I'm the type who always tries to experiment with different characters if the option is there.

I think the only game this was really impossible is Viewtiful Joe 2 because Sylvia was godawful and useless.

Also random aside that has nothing to do with anything: Viewtiful Joe 3 is like the only remaining dream video game sequel that I need now that DKC came back. Oh, and a proper follow-up to the N64 Turok trilogy that ended on a huge cliffhanger. And Half-Life 3.

You know what, never mind.
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StartTheMachine posted...

Corrik posted...

I thought I did that just randomly jumping as the wolf while charging and broke that. I can't remember. Been years since I played it. Maybe I will load it up one day and check.

You probably did break the rock by doing that but again...that's just getting the underpass opened up. You have to charge through the entire underpass first as a bat and then inexplicably transform immediately into a wolf and charge back the other way and a room suddenly opens up. It makes no sense. Just a weird little secret they put in the game.

And the Jewel Sword causes enemies to drop jewels like all the damn time. I got 70+ zircons after like an hour of using it.

Yeah I don't think I got that then
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a years-old mystery solved
neat
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I have indeed played Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon and loved it. Unlocked everything and did multiple playthroughs of it.
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Not being a fan of old Castlevanias but loving the Metroidvania style, I am actually now quite hyped for the "real deal" Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night. Like, call it blasphemous, but they could totally top Symphony.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKlR0SEmIoI" data-time="

This legit looks amazing.
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StartTheMachine posted...

What is each of your all's takes on the DS Castlevanias (or your favorite Castlevanias in general) ranked next to Symphony?

I preordered DoS and loved it.
I had a few complaints though. The art style wasn't gothic, sealing bosses was silly, the amount of reused layouts of rooms was noticeable and the music was not as good.

Never played PoR, been meaning to get to it...eventually someday.

As for OoC, I kind of loved that game. Sure it was not in the classic style of the others but man did I enjoy it for whatever reason. It had this mode where you could replay the game after completion while keeping all of your stats and I trucked though that sucker multiple times like I was competing in a speedrun race. I wish I owned this game and didn't just borrow it.

I also beat AoS for the GBA. Another great game. Similar complaints to every handheld Castlevania, graphics and sound/music just are not there.

These handheld games were faster and while that is fine I actually prefer SotN's slower pace (And big screen)
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My favorite weapon in SotN was the chakram.
This was another thing that I did not know about it until a friend nearly 10 years later got it as a drop on his first playthough. I still have not seen all of the weapons btw. I spent a good amount of time farming 2 for the ability of throwing 4 at a time.

My favorite item in the game is the Cat-Eye Circlet....just becasue it's ridiculous. It gives you health if you get hit by a cat and there is only 1 cat in the game.

The most fun weapon is the Shield Rod, did you play around with it?
Did you equip your sword familiar yet?
Did you buy the duplicator?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu2W7AHdHIc" data-time="

Now that you've beaten the game, I feel I can post this. I've recently watched this series of videos about SOTN that this guy made. It's kind of a playthrough of the game, but he also talks about the origins - mythological, historical, or of relevance to the series - of items, monsters, and places as he goes through the game. There's a lot of things in the game to talk about, coming from a lot of different sources, so it's really interesting hearing about it all.
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TheKnightOfNee posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu2W7AHdHIc" data-time="

Now that you've beaten the game, I feel I can post this. I've recently watched this series of videos about SOTN that this guy made. It's kind of a playthrough of the game, but he also talks about the origins - mythological, historical, or of relevance to the series - of items, monsters, and places as he goes through the game. There's a lot of things in the game to talk about, coming from a lot of different sources, so it's really interesting hearing about it all.

Also recommend watching this. Very interesting and informative series.
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That youtube link is good stuff.
Many things I didn't know about the game in there so far.

Though, I am surprised on a couple things he missed.
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I started working on a final thoughts retrospective of my experience with Symphony like four days ago, when I last posted, but never quite finished it. Look forward to that soon.

LOLIAmAnAlt posted...

My favorite weapon in SotN was the chakram.
This was another thing that I did not know about it until a friend nearly 10 years later got it as a drop on his first playthough. I still have not seen all of the weapons btw. I spent a good amount of time farming 2 for the ability of throwing 4 at a time.

My favorite item in the game is the Cat-Eye Circlet....just becasue it's ridiculous. It gives you health if you get hit by a cat and there is only 1 cat in the game.

The most fun weapon is the Shield Rod, did you play around with it?
Did you equip your sword familiar yet?
Did you buy the duplicator?

I don't believe I ever got the chakram, but I'm glad I finally have some context for the cat-eye circlet. I was wondering for the longest time what the hell that item did because I never remembered seeing any cats in the game...knowing now that it's a joke makes it pretty damn hilarious.

The Shield Rod is bomb. I had a Shield Rod + Herald Shield setup going on for a substantial portion of my playthrough. I did have the projectiles come out quite often but I wasn't quite sure how I was making that happen. And for whatever reason, I never looked it up unlike most other cryptic things in this game (which holy shit there are a lot of). Knowing that it's as simple as back, forward plus attack and knowing that different shields produce different projectiles really makes me want to go play around with it some more. Will likely do a lot of that on an inevitable future playthrough.

I believe I mentioned I was using the sword familiar pretty much exclusively after I got it, didn't I? Well, I was! Think he got to level 35 or something. Still never noticed any new abilities though and that was my highest leveled familiar. So is it really like level 70 until any of them gain new abilities? That's really silly and definitely a missed opportunity for the game, but oh well.

I want the Duplicator so bad I might still just farm money for a bit to get it. I currently have around 200k...just gotta remember which room it was with the two 2k money drops. Think it was in the Reverse Caverns? Maybe it was only two $400 money drops? Hmmm. Does the Duplicator do what I think from that description and essentially give you infinite uses of whatever one-time-use items you have? That sounds amazing, especially for a hoarder like me who rarely used those items (probably more due to not wanting to ruin the pace of combat and open my inventory just to use one though, moreso than actually being a hoarder).

Oh, and Knee, I'm about to check out that video here in a bit.
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The best place to level up your familiars is at the Anti-Chapel (upside down Royal Chapel)
The room with the Spectral Sword can be killed a lot and your familiars level up in a matter of minutes.

I never bothered to farm money and opted to use the Money Glitch. It's pretty easy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOSfFUifyOQ" data-time="
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In 1997, grinding out the money for a duplicator, and tearing up the game feeling like you're almost cheating, was a hell of a moment. I have a feeling a lot of those dumb one-time-use items are only in the game so that getting the duplicator becomes a fun endgame thing. What a weird, kinda awesome design choice.

SotN is dumb, but it is a fun, wild dumb.

The shield rod is possibly even more overpowered than that, if you can believe it. The secret of the shield rod is not the weird projectiles it shoots. Instead, you equip shield rod with any shield, and press both attack buttons at the same time (square+circle on a playstation controller, B and X on an xbox controller I suppose). Every shield has a unique effect! Collect all the shields to see all the effects =]

Personally, I'm glad they don't explain that shield rod secret in the game anywhere...
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I feel like the sword familiar can only be equipped when it is high level or something dumb like that...can't remember...
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Just find a room with a tun of enemies in it and go to town with the jewel sword.
My old spot was the lower right room in the Colosseum.

Also to open the jewel sword room all you need to do is move the character though the tunnel in the different forms (wolf and bat), no need to dash or anything.

Oh and the Chakram is found as a super rare drop from the disk lord, whom is only in one place.

StartTheMachine posted...

I believe I mentioned I was using the sword familiar pretty much exclusively after I got it, didn't I? Well, I was! Think he got to level 35 or something.

oooooooooooooooooooooooh I was responding to this, then realized that you only have it at level 35. Spoilers: You can equip it at level 50
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What do you mean "equip" the sword familiar? Do you mean like, as an item or something? Like I can use the sword itself as a weapon and not as a familiar?

Epyo posted...

Personally, I'm glad they don't explain that shield rod secret in the game anywhere...

I honestly haven't decided if all the weird, cryptic stuff in this game is a positive or a negative, but I'm generally leaning more towards positive. There are a couple of things I wish were more thoroughly explained, but stuff like the shield rod being left cryptic does give it an enigmatic coolness.
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StartTheMachine posted...

What do you mean "equip" the sword familiar? Do you mean like, as an item or something? Like I can use the sword itself as a weapon and not as a familiar?

Correct.
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The Sword Familiar when used as a Weapon is also one of the strongest weapons in the game.

The Sword Familiar itself even drops a hint that you can use it as a Weapon when you summon it for the first or second time.

"Have you the power to wield me?"
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StartTheMachine posted...

What do you mean "equip" the sword familiar? Do you mean like, as an item or something? Like I can use the sword itself as a weapon and not as a familiar?

Heck Yeah!
It's also one of the strongest swords in the game.

....he even has it's own spell! (The Sword Brothers Spell) that is powerful and allows for various glitches ingame.

The Sword Brothers spell is accomplished by pressing down, then rolling the directional pad 180 degrees forwards and holding it for a while once it reaches up, and then suddenly press down and attack at the same time.

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Yeah, I looked up that spell to get the achievement for performing all 8 of Alucard's spells, as it was the only one I hadn't done. But I was still able to perform it without equipping him -- does the game actually explain to you how to do the Sword Brothers spell once you're able to equip him? I noticed there was nowhere in the shop to buy the spell input.
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You need to get the Sword Familiar to at least Level 50 to be able to equip them.

anti-purge bumpo
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yeah i am also watching that and have not seen it
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I am on episode 14
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I only made it to episode 4 but good stuff! I have a feeling I'll marathon the rest one of these days.
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