Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic 46

(+) Yeah! (+)

turbopuns2 posted...

Ok let's be clear on something.

I'm fully confident that if I put the time and dedication into it, I could go pro in magic, hearthstone, pokemon, yu-gi-oh, whatever. I have no doubt about that.

That doesn't mean the current pros in those games aren't better than me at those games, as of this moment.

That is nothing more than a mental block. This isnt pro sports where nothing you do will ever give you Lebrons dna. These are tabletop games or video games requiring no physical dexterity.

Daigo Umehara? Sure, you cant beat him. But you can beat Kibler/Firebat in Hearthstone ladder or Kripp/Amaz in arena. Youd be surprised how well you do if you hang a paper or something and hide your opponents username.
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I just lost in arena because my shaman opponent rolled taunt totem 4 times in a row. LOL.

I still have fun playing hearthstone and don't hate its developers with a fiery passion.

Just had the best arena game.

Im a mage and played frozen clone into a shamans turn 9 hoping to hit master of realities into totem or something. But instead I get TWO SHUDDERWOCKS

I was like holy fuck because I have 2 of those discover a spell that costs six less, wild lands adventurer, adapt battlecries, elemental synergy you name it.

So I play the first one and get some value but the shaman has volcano and a couple turns later got another volcano from frog. In any case Im just playing stuff trying not to over commit too much but keeping in mind my deck is not threat heavy.

So on his turn he drops ragnaros into a pretty full board and totems and passes. Even though my board is large its a bunch of gibberers. Even so Im not really in a major spot I can lose unless I get really unlucky or make a huge misstep.

In any case its time to play the second shudderwock as a recap a previous one gave me a 0 mana fireball Ive been saving. I also have a 0 mana blizzard in my hand from way before. He just goes wild with battlecries giving my shudderwock windfury and divine shield. I go face with everything and use a conceal I got from wildlands (from shudderwock) for hand size issues. I also got a sylvanas from wildlands (from shudderwock).

So he plays some taunts and totems.

I draw into a free molten reflection and if youve noticed the cards in my hand its easy to figure out where this was going. Free blizzard. Kill off taunts with my 1/1s. Kill the totem. Go face with the rest. Summon sylvanas, fireball it stealing rag, molten reflection on rag.

Its too bad like I basically won the game when I got the two shudderwock and it wasnt like some I was at 1 hp and had 0 cards in my deck.
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Hearthstone is not a game about can I beat this guy if I see him on ladder or arena. Its like how many games out of 10 do I reasonably think I can take from a certain player.

Like I legimately think I could take like 7 of 10 from like amaz or trump on ladder but probably only 3 to 4 from dog or muzzy.

For that matter Ive played dog probably the most out of any pro player and my win rate against him is abysmal (mainly because I always seem to get him when hes running a major counter to my deck).
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KokoroAkechi posted...

For that matter Ive played dog probably the most out of any pro player and my win rate against him is abysmal (mainly because RNG LOL THIS GAME SUCKS AMIRITE LOL LOL LOL SHIT GAME LOL).

(you actually look like this ulti)

in fairness to trump he does spend a lot of time playing bad decks intentionally just to see if he can make them work or not. so yeah odds of beating him would likely be inflated compared to his 'relative' ability level.
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I played and beat Lifecoach in Gwent once. That has been my only interaction with a "pro" player in card games though.

It was really fun to go back and watch the stream to see how salty he was.
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davidponte posted...

I played and beat Lifecoach in Gwent once. That has been my only interaction with a "pro" player in card games though.

It was really fun to go back and watch the stream to see how salty he was.

Lifecoach makes me look sane.
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I actually remember someone posting about playing Lifecoach a while back in this topic series

I'm guessing that was you? or maybe we've had more than one
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I've definitely brought it up before, but I feel like I can't be the only one to have ever played him.
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turbopuns2 posted...

KokoroAkechi posted...

For that matter Ive played dog probably the most out of any pro player and my win rate against him is abysmal (mainly because RNG LOL THIS GAME SUCKS AMIRITE LOL LOL LOL SHIT GAME LOL).

(you actually look like this ulti)

Its also more accurate given rng decides far more games than it should. I just lost, yet again, because of rng handing some idiot two huffer. That is not skill. No decision in the game mattered. People talking about percentage over time instead of pushing to remove rng bullshit so each game matters, rather than maybe I can win 7 in 10, is why this game is collapsing in play rate. It should be realistic to win 10/10 if youre better, but this game is specifically designed to remove all player skill and all decision making. Luck and rng are the only determining factors.

Its even dumber when someone makes multiple blatant misplays and still wins because of rng Mario Kart trash another series that is one HUNDRED percent unplayable due to player skill not mattering. You are specifically punished for being good.
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It's almost like the inherently random nature of card games allowing more unskilled players to win occasionally is considered a positive to the people who play them
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Why do you play a game that is one hundred percent unplayable?

I'd bet I could go 7 out of 10 against Ulti, 9 out of 10 if it was arena.
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hockeydude15 posted...

I'd bet I could go 7 out of 10 against Ulti, 9 out of 10 if it was arena.

speaking of stats, my tempo rogue is now at

38-9 (80.8% winrate overall)

about half of those losses were in my last 15 games though. that could either be a small sample size or it could mean I'm slowing down a bit as the competition gets more fierce. I will say part of the problem is that I got matched up against secret rogue a few times in a row while playing yesterday and that match up is hell for me. secrets usually mean they are getting free tempo as long as it triggers, and I don't always have a good way to play around it due to small hand size.
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no, I'm almost always ahead on board. sap helps a lot with that but I think vanish is too expensive and in many cases would be too destructive toward building my own momentum.
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I'll post the decklist later (don't have the app open, don't feel like opening it just to post the decklist), but the short version is that I had more consistent threats to drop behind hench clan thug rather than relying on random spider draws.

so basically if

hench clan thug or fledgling gets answered immediately, I have more stuff to drop right behind it
if the opponent doesn't answer them immediately they are going to have a bad time

(it sounds like you're more used to playing some kind of miracle-slanted version which doesn't do very much between turn 3 and 7)
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I'm pretty sure nobody told you that.

### Watch Your Back
# Class: Rogue
# Format: Wild
#
# 2x (0) Backstab
# 1x (1) Argent Squire
# 2x (1) Cold Blood
# 1x (1) Deadly Poison
# 2x (1) Dire Mole
# 2x (1) Fire Fly
# 1x (1) Southsea Deckhand
# 2x (2) Acidic Swamp Ooze
# 2x (2) Sap
# 2x (3) Hench-Clan Thug
# 2x (3) SI:7 Agent
# 2x (3) Vicious Fledgling
# 2x (4) Saronite Chain Gang
# 2x (5) Cobalt Scalebane
# 2x (5) Dark Iron Skulker
# 2x (5) Fungalmancer
# 1x (5) Leeroy Jenkins
#
AAEBAaIHBMsDrwTUBfUFDbQBjALNA4oH3QjzEZ/CAuvCApvLAsrLAtHhAovlAqbvAgA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
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also hey if you're looking for a super oppressive, cancerous deck to play in wild right now look no further than secret mage

https://imgur.com/Gj4DNpx

guy does nothing but throw spells at my face every single turn, ends up with no cards in hand

https://imgur.com/rfXyYPI

doesn't matter, cause the geniuses at blizzard literally printed the card known as ice block
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So I got 14 Kobalds and Catacomb packs from.. I guess it was the recent Hearthstone championships? Not really sure.

Anyways, thoroughly disappointing pulls. It triggered my pity pack though and I got a Runespear. But at least now if I DE all the cards I have duplicates of I'll have 30k dust, which is kinda nice.
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That was literally the 1st time I ever heard of rune spear. Wtf lol

Runespear is a ton of fun, too bad it's not particularly good right now.
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Alright well I guess we are done here then.

UltimaterializerX posted...

No one enjoys dice rolling to determine wins.

And yet here you are, claiming to do exactly that.
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okay can someone help me out with how to find win rates of specific decks? I have to be looking up this information wrong because what I'm seeing makes absolutely no sense. the secret mage deck list I can find has a sub 50% win rate against almost every single deck, but for some reason it's BY FAR the most common deck I see on wild ladder right now.

why would so many people be playing a deck that (statistically) loses almost constantly

and it can't just be because it beats tempo rogue. in the last 52 games I've only played against one other tempo rogue... but I've played against 8 secret mages in the last 22 games (and lost 7 of those 8 matches)
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I'd be interested in those resources as well.

Currently hovering between ranks 4-2, but the grind is on hold while I have fun with the new arena cards. Currently 5-1 in a rogue draft that I wasn't expecting much from, but 2x envenom weapon with 2x dejavu and 1x that-guy-that-prevents-weapon-durability-reduction has resulted in some very clean wins so far. Only 1x guy that steals top card from opponent's deck and 1x stasis dragon to round out the rest of my unique cards (with the 2 dejavu), but I could see this cracking 10 pretty easily.
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for what it's worth, I was looking at tempo storm originally myself. though I noticed a lot of their information is based on 2 month old submissions... this may be a problem specific to the wild format.
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actually legitimately just queued up against baku mage who is pinging my face for 2 damage

these fuckers are seriously taking face mage to the next level

I did win that one since it's way less optimal than just playing a secret mage, so I'm not sure if they were just experimenting or what. honestly, maybe people just REALLY LOVE playing secret mage. that's all I can take away from this.

that was also the final match of my second set (of 30), so with that I'll post the full stats...

my record for this set was 19-11, for a winrate of 63%
that's a huge falloff from the first set where I had a winrate of 86%!
seems like in Wild you're more liable to just hit a wall randomly at rank 12 (where I'm sitting right now) as opposed to standard ladder where it's just netdeck cancer all the way down to rank 25.

this sets my overall winrate with this deck at 75% from rank 25 to rank 12

specific info on secret mage from this set, since it bothered me enough to track it...
7 losses were against secret mage
2 wins were against secret mage

in this set I faced Secret Mage an astounding 30% of the time, and I only won 28% of those matches
63% of my losses were against Secret Mage

if I remove the games against Secret Mage, my record changes to 17-4, or 80%... this is far more in line with the winrate of the deck before I hit the "rank 12 wall"

though it's honestly more fitting to just call it the "secret mage" wall, since that seems to be the singular source of my plummeting winrate. this deck wasn't very common at lower ranks in Wild, I think I only faced them 2 or 3 times and they were less optimized decks that I had a more even chance against. despite having a 28% win rate against the secret mage deck, you have to remember this was a fairly small sample size. and one of those victories came only after I specifically added Eater of Secrets into my deck... a terrible card for tempo which sees absolutely no play, but I felt it was warranted because this problem was so pervasive (and it did win me a game almost immediately, so there is that).

with this information in mind I'm thinking of finding a specific deck that counters secret mage and just playing that. if I can get a deck that matches evenly against the rest of the meta, but beats secret mage, I should theoretically be winning around 30% of my matches by default.
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People play decks more for matchup than winrate and Secret Mage is more popular at lower ranks from what I can tell

The deck is favored against Warlock but when you start facing more Druids at higher ranks youre gonna have a bad time
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I fucking love yahtzee, tbqh.

Yeah, one of the problems with Wild is that there is not a consistently good resource for it. Secret Mage is good against Warlock and I think it should be pretty good against Kingsbane Rogue unless they get a huge lifesteal immediately. That deck got more popular after someone made a post on the main subreddit to whine about it so that's my wild guess.

For counters, it loses to control Druid and any aggro deck that is faster than it. That was Paladin back in the C2A days, but I imagine it's still favored. Not sure where Even Shaman stacks up. I assume Quest Priest or Reno Mage/Priest should also handle it easily.
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Oh Even Shaman crushes Tempo Mage and that is from what I heard the best deck in Wild right now

Like Even Shaman is probably low tier 1/high tier 2 in standard and in Wild you get access to Totem Golem the Jade Cards Thing From Below etc
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And 4-mana 7/7
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And Crackle, and additional 4 mana 7/7s in the form of Totemcarver.

Deck is good, just never played the burn matchup with it.
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I'd like to see Ulti top this. Like this happened to me a few months ago and I still can't get over the like "really?" type feeling I had.


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Should have played around it.
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So he coined out the spooder-maker.

And then got all 3 spooders in a row.

Opening Hand = 4 cards + Coin.
Turn 1 = draw a card (25 left in deck)
Turn 2 = draw a card (24 left in deck)
Turn 3 = draw a card, coin out guy and put 3 additional cards in deck. (26 cards in deck)

3 / 26 * 2 / 25 * 1 / 24 = 6 / 15600

or 1 in 2600

That's not even close to some of the odds that ulti has claimed have occurred to him. Gonna have to try a lot harder than turn 4 triple ambush.
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I have photo proof
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What are the chances during tgt that two mages in a row unstable portal into exactly Tirion AND Juraxus?
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KokoroAkechi posted...

What are the chances during tgt that two mages in a row unstable portal into exactly Tirion AND Juraxus?

Wild or Standard?
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

KokoroAkechi posted...

What are the chances during tgt that two mages in a row unstable portal into exactly Tirion AND Juraxus?

Wild or Standard?

It would be during the tgt era because thats when it happened to me. So you only have to worry about tgt and before. Standard didnt start until old gods iirc.
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I'm quite certain that 100% of the people at rank 19 are playing Taunt Druid.

Edit: Never mind, Shaman was next. Just needed to complain to reset the class distribution.
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