Current Events > Bad game design in games

(+) Yeah! (+)

MrK3V posted...

Twilight Princess

Lots of cool items to get

only for that dungeon

this was the wooooooorst
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The gameplay loop of Farcry 3. In order to do the (garbage) side stuff you have to clear outposts. Clearing outposts gets rid of all the enemies. In order to play the majority of the game you have to make the already boring map into a fucking desert.

specialkid8 posted...

The gameplay loop of Farcry 3. In order to do the (garbage) side stuff you have to clear outposts. Clearing outposts gets rid of all the enemies. In order to play the majority of the game you have to make the already boring map into a fucking desert.

There's a lot of this in Assassin's Creed Origins. Most of these camps are attached to quests, so if you clear one just for the hell of it you end up nerfing those quests, making them simple
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The surest way to make me hate your side content is to force me to play it.

Looking at you, Pokemon. >~>
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Any forced mini game type shit. Blitzball for example

Locked wooden doors in games like Fallout and Skyrim. Like I can literally throw fireballs but I can't open this door because my lockpicking is low?

Unskippable cutscenes, especially when having to replay a part.

Scenes where you're forced to walk slow and listen to some bullshit or follow someone.
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Cthulhu_Fhtagn posted...

Any forced mini game type shit. Blitzball for example

Locked wooden doors in games like Fallout and Skyrim. Like I can literally throw fireballs but I can't open this door because my lockpicking is low?

Unskippable cutscenes, especially when having to replay a part.

Scenes where you're forced to walk slow and listen to some bullshit or follow someone.

Itd be cool if you could kick/gundown/fireball doors but kinda get why thats overlooked for the sake of being able to border off some areas for later.
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Cthulhu_Fhtagn posted...

Locked wooden doors in games like Fallout and Skyrim. Like I can literally throw fireballs but I can't open this door because my lockpicking is low?

My favorite are the locked doors in Fallout with the window glass broken out
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Then don't make it a half destroyed wooden door that you can literally climb through.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/uv3Wa.jpg

And it's often not even about bordering off areas for later. In those games it's usually for "better" loot. Make it a puzzle instead or something.
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Yeah, like that one
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I think if Cthulhu_Fhtagn posted...

Then don't make it a half destroyed wooden door that you can literally climb through.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/uv3Wa.jpg

Lulz I guess if where talking Fallout how about the option to drink out of toilets when almost every bathroom has a first aid kit.
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wolfenstein: the new order

to get ammo for your gun you have to manually stand over the guns of fallen enemies and press E to pick it up. and they dont carry lots of ammo so like 50% of each firefight is running out of ammo and then scrambling around looking at the floor, trying to find bullets before you die
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RPGs with hidden or unclear stats like IVs and Luck.
Misleading descriptions like "Bows use the Focus stat" (...and Strength? combined? average?)
Bad formulas in general like using Level to determine damage (FF7) or multiple RNGs (Pokeballs)

Limited inventory
Food/hunger
These often go together too, making eachother even worse.

Rare drops/steals under 1% (or shiny pokemon's 1 in 8k chance)
Having to manually pick up drops that are glowing in your face, or needing a skill to do it automatically.
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Those old Sierra point-and-click games that could be made completely unwinnable by a decision you made hours earlier with no context behind it
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stamina meters

Orthopox12 posted...

For real does anyone even actually use inverted?

I do, to the extent I invert mouse aiming, too
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I stand corrected on the inverted aiming
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UnholyMudcrab posted...

Those old Sierra point-and-click games that could be made completely unwinnable by a decision you made hours earlier with no context behind it

Or worse, you did do the right thing, but with the wrong item (like eating the pie instead of meat in KQ5)
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Cthulhu_Fhtagn posted...

https://i.stack.imgur.com/uv3Wa.jpg

Shit like this is hilarious. Also any obstacle that you could easily just climb over or walk around IRL

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsurmountableWaistHeightFence
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How has no one mentioned Quick Time Events yet? They were the absolute worst parts of sooo many games late PS2 - PS3 /360 Era of gaming.
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Very long and unskippable opening areas

Looking at KotOR and KotOR 2

And Twilight Princess
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Kircheis posted...

Fog of War maps in Fire Emblem, because you can't see the enemy, but the AI always knows where your units are, and FoW maps typically have high mobility units designed to charge out of the fog and kill one of your fragile units. It's at its worst in Thracia 776 where you can't even guess enemy locations based on terrain because FoW is pitch black in this game. And all of the gaiden chapters have FoW. Because that totally makes for fun gameplay, right?

Chapter 24x of Thracia 776 is pretty much the pinnacle of bad game design. Invisible map, unmarked teleport tiles that send characters to rooms that literally can't be escaped without a Rescue staff (or Warp+Rewarp)...yikes
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Superman 64
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Oh another major problem I had with Horizon was not being able to save in missions. Some of those missions take over an hour and not being able to stop playing the game potentially an hour into a mission without actually beating it is really stupid game design.
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Taking away all of your weapons/ammo/gear. Far Cry 3 did this shit 3 fucking times.
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HylianFox posted...

Cthulhu_Fhtagn posted...

https://i.stack.imgur.com/uv3Wa.jpg

Shit like this is hilarious. Also any obstacle that you could easily just climb over or walk around IRL

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsurmountableWaistHeightFence

I really wish more games would put some effort into the most basic of traversal mechanics. Even if you have a super linear game with a directed narrative you can think of more interesting out of bounds barriers than a fence or a ditch and let people jump over that kind of thing. And in more open games I want to be able to climb on everything. Not enough games let you climb trees.

Ymir Forest

JUST LEAN OVER AND GRAB THE STUPID FRUIT WHY DON'T YOU

oh "but that fish looks mean" TOO BAD
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Burst
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games where the burst fire mode fires 3 bullets with one press of the trigger, which defeats the purpose of having a burst fire mode to begin with
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Gibberish noise in place of voice acting.
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BillWardsPants posted...

Gibberish noise in place of voice acting.

Do you really want game like Animal Crossing to be fully voiced?

*shudder*
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chill02 posted...

games where the burst fire mode fires 3 bullets with one press of the trigger, which defeats the purpose of having a burst fire mode to begin with

Every weapon being automatic bothers me in games. If I have an option for single shot I always use it.
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Animal Crossing gibberish is fine

Banjo Kazooie gibberish can fuck right off
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Orthopox12 posted...

chill02 posted...

games where the burst fire mode fires 3 bullets with one press of the trigger, which defeats the purpose of having a burst fire mode to begin with

Every weapon being automatic bothers me in games. If I have an option for single shot I always use it.

this is not bad game design by any means, but I feel slightly annoyed when games set in the US and it's not in a military setting feature fully automatic guns everywhere
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but seriously though I cannot let Ymir Forest, et al, go

any game that has a ridiculously long and convoluted "puzzle" for something that could easily be accomplished in two seconds if only the game actually let you
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HylianFox posted...

BillWardsPants posted...

Gibberish noise in place of voice acting.

Do you really want game like Animal Crossing to be fully voiced?

*shudder*

Id rather not play Animal Crossing at all.
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not to mention Collette HAS FUCKING WINGS and can't be bothered to fly the three feet necessary to pick it up
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EbonTitanium posted...

Being a extremely powerful character, but a door can stop you.

Or a small ledge you can't get over
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Minimalistic UIs and controls.

I want my Ironman HUD, not an empty fucking screen with no information.
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So so so many fifth gen games had that one area with no exit, until it turned out there was an exit and you just couldn't see it because it was around a corner and the camera wouldn't show you.
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Any game designed in a way to incentivize the spending of real money by forcing the player to grind hours upon hours upon hours to achieve the same result
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WaffIeElite posted...

Minimalistic UIs and controls.

I want my Ironman HUD, not an empty fucking screen with no information.

eh, when it comes to HUD I like only being shown what's actually relevant

some of the best games have basic controls, but it can be annoying when a console has 10 buttons but only 2 are ever used *cough*DS*cough*
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clunky combat artificial difficulty

dank souls
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WaffIeElite posted...

Minimalistic UIs and controls.

I want my Ironman HUD, not an empty fucking screen with no information.

Much rather have minimalist HUD than the bullshit most MMOs have where you've get text cluttering every corner of your screen and it doesn't even look like a game anymore.

ModLogic posted...

clunky combat artificial difficulty

dank souls

you consistently post wrong things. why do you do this?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJSJ2d_xnzg" data-time="
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Panthera posted...

Kircheis posted...

Fog of War maps in Fire Emblem, because you can't see the enemy, but the AI always knows where your units are, and FoW maps typically have high mobility units designed to charge out of the fog and kill one of your fragile units. It's at its worst in Thracia 776 where you can't even guess enemy locations based on terrain because FoW is pitch black in this game. And all of the gaiden chapters have FoW. Because that totally makes for fun gameplay, right?

Chapter 24x of Thracia 776 is pretty much the pinnacle of bad game design. Invisible map, unmarked teleport tiles that send characters to rooms that literally can't be escaped without a Rescue staff (or Warp+Rewarp)...yikes

That one was also an indoor map, right? So now if you've been training a lot of mounted units, they all lose the higher movement that makes them worth using in the first place, they all take stat penalties for being dismounted, and most of them can't even use their primary weapon proficiency because they apparently forgot how to swing an axe or poke with a spear while not sitting on their asses. This is how you game design, right?
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Unfair difficulty for no reason. Examples include hidden coin blocks in Kaizo Mario games, Traps that make absolutely no sense other than to screw you over, etc

One shot kill mechanics that are unavoidable. For example Orphan, the final boss in FF13, has an instant death attack that if it hits your leader you get instant game over. You can't 100% mitigate this via equipment and skills learned in the game. So you could have a great fight going and instantly loose. That shit just really grinds my gears.

Finally, games that have missable items but have collector trophies/achievements. Like alksdfjlasdjf.

Board game wise:

1) Player elimination. NO NO NO. If you MUST eliminate a player, make sure they don't have to sit and do nothing for the next 30 minutes. Video game wise: Counter Strike fixes it by having short rounds. PUBG and Fortnite fix it by just leaving the game. Mario Kart still lets you play and finish even though you are the only kart left to finish.

Games guilty of this: Risk, Monopoly, many American classics, Red Dragon Inn sort of (could be shorter)

Games that pull player elmination off great: Love Letter, Red7, arguably King of Tokyo

2) Sisyphus. Rolling a rock up a hill only to have it roll down, repeat. Games there you don't feel like you are moving forward or progressing. Games that could just theoretically go on forever if the luck is bad enough. Losing stuff is fine, but at least have something you can KEEP, don't make it possible to reset a player all the way back to what they had when they started.

Games guilty of this: Munchkin, Talisman

3) Decisionless. Games that boil down to pure chance. Its fun, but you might as well just play a slot machine or something instead or open a loot crate for your money.

Games guilty of this: L-C-R, Candyland, Chutes & Ladders.

4) Manual bookeeping. Older video games are guilty of this. Imagine Morrowind with NO journal. Stardew Valley's "favorite gifts", ConcernedApe could have done so much more than just 'open a guide'. It could have been a gameplay mechanic where you could unlock favorites that you can see on the calendar. People like unlockables :3. People dont' like having to do math every turn.

Games guilty of this: Sentinels of the Multiverse (the video game fixes this), Munchkin, Kevin Wilson's Civilization.

Kircheis posted...

That one was also an indoor map, right? So now if you've been training a lot of mounted units, they all lose the higher movement that makes them worth using in the first place, they all take stat penalties for being dismounted, and most of them can't even use their primary weapon proficiency because they apparently forgot how to swing an axe or poke with a spear while not sitting on their asses. This is how you game design, right?

Yep, indoor map so all those cool mounted units suffer (especially Dean, badass wyvern rider...who joins when half the remaining maps are indoors). It's also the second last chapter, which means its after the prison break map, so any unit who gets captured is gone for good. And it's an escape map, so anyone left behind is captured. Did we cover the unmarked teleport tiles that send you to inescapable rooms?

A pitch black map with infinite range status staff enemies in a room that gives them a magic boost (in a game where status effects don't wear off!) and there are also random Berserkers running around with Wrath, some of whom show up as reinforcements...and those things are the LEAST of the problem!
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Hexenherz posted...

Being able to save in midair >_>

I got to the haunted island in Tomb Raider Chronicles (farthest I had made it in a TR game up to that point) and there was this dumb jump you had to make over a chasm and grab a hanging rope and I kept missing it and eventually instead of clicking "load" I clicked "save" and overrode my game so that any time I loaded it it was just Lara screaming and dying.

Like that sucks, but I laughed really hard at the visual.