Board 8 > So I finally watched Infinity War. spoilers

(+) Yeah! (+)

black panther was great, you're all nuts.

top 5 mcu
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Oh I loved Black Panther it would probably make my top 5 as well
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Well, it's confusing to me because I thought it was mid-low tier, yes.

And like aside from not thinking Thor The Dark World was nearly as awful as public reception my opinion of these movies tends to match the mainstream reception of the MCU pretty well. Also like, even if I'm an outlier there it's not like most people have it as their favorite or anything. Like I feel like stuff like The Avengers and Winter Soldier are easily held in higher regard overall.

Like I'm not saying I would expect it to flop but on the scale of Ant-Man to Avengers I would expect it to be much closer to the former than the latter.
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...?

You literally listed two high tier Marvel movies though

Black Panther is pretty high up there man, I never said it was gonna be the ABSOLUTE favorite of people but like for the most part it's pretty consistently ranked on the higher end.

And yea you're still underestimating the importance of representation of a primarily black cast. Like that combining with the general favorable reviews towards it creates a perfect storm.
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I don't really like that explanation. It feels like it cheapens the appeal of the movie to attribute it to that. Maybe you're right but I don't want to think that pandering to SJWs is a cheat code to movie sales unless I have to.
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I don't think it's 'pandering to SJWs' to say that an ethnic group that has been almost entirely nonexistent in superhero movies would appreciate being represented in a big way.
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Oh wow Lopen I didnt know you unironically used the term SJWs

Alright I understand now, I'll move along
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KamikazePotato posted...

I don't think it's 'pandering to SJWs' to say that an ethnic group that has been almost entirely nonexistent in superhero movies would appreciate being represented in a big way.

uh...

spawn
blade
storm
nick fury
war machine
falcon
cyborg
deadshot

i'm not saying black panther wasn't a big deal, but to say black people almost didn't exist in superhero movies before is a bit of an exaggeration.
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Oh wow lasa, you too huh
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

KamikazePotato posted...

I don't think it's 'pandering to SJWs' to say that an ethnic group that has been almost entirely nonexistent in superhero movies would appreciate being represented in a big way.

uh...

spawn
blade
storm
nick fury
war machine
falcon
cyborg
deadshot

i'm not saying black panther wasn't a big deal, but to say black people almost didn't exist in superhero movies before is a bit of an exaggeration.

Man, my dick gets so hard it's painful whenever someone pulls out this argument. It's just oddly satisfying watching people reveal that the point flew right over their head (and their reflexes were not good enough to catch it).
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Every one of those is a side character or the main character of a movie with not anywhere near the impact of a generic Marvel movie. Maybe how I worded it was an exaggeration but I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that Black Panther is the first movie where all the most important characters were black as opposed to just being like, Iron Man's best buddy (unless another more important character is around).
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Well, no, you're the one that's attributing its success to SJW pandering. I'm just the one that's not afraid to use the expression that's taboo for you, I guess.

It's like... you say "hey it's cool when the clouds drop water on us" and I'm like "oh, like, rain?" and you're like "WOW YOU SAID RAIN"

Like I guess I'd just rather the movie be considered a success on its own storytelling merits rather than because it was representing a demographic that is underrepresented.
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Tokoyami posted...

Oh wow lasa, you too huh

redrocket posted...

Man, my dick gets so hard it's painful whenever someone pulls out this argument. It's just oddly satisfying watching people reveal that the point flew right over their head (and their reflexes were not good enough to catch it).

ok, so you guys just want to be dicks about this rather than making an actual argument.
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No I dont think you exaggerated it, you hit it pretty head on
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KamikazePotato posted...

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that Black Panther is the first movie where all the most important characters were black as opposed to just being like, Iron Man's best buddy (unless another more important character is around).

of course. this is why i said that i'm not trying to say black panther isn't a big deal. it's a very big deal.
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Lopen posted...

Like I guess I'd just rather the movie be considered a success on its own storytelling merits rather than because it was representing a demographic that is underrepresented.

Why is both not possible?
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I don't necessarily agree with that list Lasa made as a rock solid counterargument or anything but Blade was a pretty big movie guys.

Better than Black Panther too btw
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Lopen posted...

I don't necessarily agree with that list Lasa made as a rock solid counterargument

why not?
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KamikazePotato posted...

Every one of those is a side character or the main character of a movie with not anywhere near the impact of a generic Marvel movie

Because I mostly agree with that aside from disagreeing about Blade not being anywhere near the impact of a generic Marvel movie-- because that's not respecting Blade which absolutely was a bigger deal than a generic Marvel movie back then.
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again, straw man argument. my counterargument wasn't "black panther doesn't matter shit." my counterargument was "maybe it's a slight exaggeration to say that there were almost no black people in superhero movies before."

apparently that was enough for people to go "OH WOW LASA YOU TOO?!?" and "MY DICK GETS SO HARD WHEN LASA COMPLETELY MISSES THE POINT"
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Ok so the thing you guys are missing, Lopen and Lasa, is that Black Panther is the first primarily all black cast of those. List all the examples you want of a black character in a superhero movie, but then they'll be one of the only ones in it. And Black Panther also includes a black director and screenwriters as well. Like this production in general is black, and that is a thing that has not really happened on anywhere near this scale.

I'm not arguing about that influencing the quality of the movie, you like the movie or you don't, but to discount the representation that MANY black individuals see from the movie and feel for, and not thinking that has much to do with the box office draw....is really silly to me.
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Oh yeah I definitely agree they overreacted. Like the narrative of "OMG COMIC BOOK MOVIES WERE TEH WHITE PRIVILEGE" is definitely wrong which is kinda how they reacted to your post. But none of those, aside from Blade, are even on the tier of Black Panther in terms of impact either so I mean I don't entirely agree with all the examples in your post as super relevant either.
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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

Ok so the thing you guys are missing, Lopen and Lasa, is that Black Panther is the first primarily all black cast of those. List all the examples you want of a black character in a superhero movie, but then they'll be one of the only ones in it. And Black Panther also includes a black director and screenwriters as well. Like this production in general is black, and that is a thing that has not really happened on anywhere near this scale.

I'm not arguing about that influencing the quality of the movie, you like the movie or you don't, but to discount the representation that MANY black individuals see from the movie and feel for, and not thinking that has much to do with the box office draw....is really silly to me.

again, i'm not saying anything about this is not true. i was specifically responding to KP's claim that there were almost no black people in superhero movies before.
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I'm pretty sure KP was going for something along my point but you took it super literally
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Lopen posted...

But none of those, aside from Blade, are even on the tier of Black Panther in terms of impact either so I mean I don't entirely agree with all the examples in your post as super relevant either.

they were relevant to my point. which was "plenty of black people did, as a matter of fact, appear pretty prominently in superhero movies before."
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Can't we all just get along
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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

I'm pretty sure KP was going for something along my point but you took it super literally

he just said the way he worded it was an exaggeration but ok
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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

I'm not arguing about that influencing the quality of the movie, you like the movie or you don't, but to discount the representation that MANY black individuals see from the movie and feel for, and not thinking that has much to do with the box office draw....is really silly to me.

I think the idea that this factor has a lot to do with the box office draw is kinda silly to me, yeah.

I mean it might actually be right, but the crux of the disagreement is I honestly don't want to accept that as the reason-- I'd rather think the movie is amazing for a reason actually directly related to the quality of the movie that I'm not seeing.
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The thing about Blade is most people don't even recognize him as a superhero/comic book character.
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Lopen posted...

I mean it might actually be right, but the crux of the disagreement is I honestly don't want to accept that as the reason

alright cool feel free to not accept it but that doesn't change the money it's made or the numerous pieces written about how important the representation has been for it. Like I'm just stating facts man, this is actually what happened. It got good reviews, if you wanna go the Metacritic route it has an 88 which is by far one of the highest for a Marvel movie, it might be THE top actually. Not that "oh Metacritic is the end all be all for how good a movie is" but seeing that it's reviewing well can influence people to say "hey let me go check that out and see what all the fuss is about". so that's component 1.

Component 2, primarily all black cast and production which I know doesn't identify with you personally (or me actually but I can somehow recognize the importance of it) but affects millions of black individuals, especially young kids and families. They never get movies like this, sure like Lasa said there's one or two black people among a cast but to have the majority be black? And on this scale and attention? Nah, it doesn't happen. To some people this was a borderline movement for them. Again, it wasn't for you. And that's ok. But it clearly was to a group of people.

Component 1 + Component 2 + a bit of marketing here and there, some buzz = BOOM box office returns. Alright now here's the important part: you don't have to be part of it to recognize that. You obviously aren't, and that's fine. But don't you think you can connect those dots and say "ok all those people decided to show up to the theater to see the movie and support this representation while also hearing it's a really well reviewed movie, and it made the box office go up! Alright!"
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I mean I can kinda relate. I'm Russian and 95% of the time in film we're evil or spies or both

But I wouldn't exactly be rushing out to see a Colossus origin story set in Russia, either

I kinda just feel like maybe there is an overattribution somewhere here. Like just because it was a huge success and because it had a lot of black people in it doesn't mean it was a success because of that to a super meaningful level
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Yeah but the US has a very severe 'us versus them' problem with respect to black people and everyone else, with certain subsets of blacks specifically feeling like they're still being oppressed and held down by 'the white man'. Black representation is a huge social issue compared to every other ethnicity, regardless of my, your, or anyone else's feelings on if that's how it should be or not

It's not really the same situation as you happening to be Russian (which, even if you want to liken it to the 'anti-Russia' sentiment going on lately, isn't the same thing because Russian's are not a very big presence in the US like blacks are).

I kind of think the whole thing is dumb too but that IS what happened.

why'd they have to get rid of scarlet witch i wanted to watch a 2 hour movie of elizabeth olsen being hot
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Something VERY weird happened with Black Panther, I have never seen anything like that..ever
It isn't out of the ordinary for me to not like something that many people does, but something about BP was different..it was a movie that I couldn't understand why the hell people loved so much
Even Dunkirk that I hate so much, I can somehow understand, people liked the "clever" way of using time, the atmosphere (which was shit but ok) and bla bla bla
But BP...? nothing, it was boring from start to finish. It would be like if the Assassin's Creed movie was a hit on was ranked on the top 100 movies on IMDB or something
And hell, I have seen all the MCU movies in a marathon, even stuff like the Hulk and Iron Man 2 were better than Black Panther in my eyes
That movie was just dull, every single one that I know IRL think the same way
I just can't understand what the fuck happened with critics
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barreldragon88 posted...

Guy's acting is terrible and don't know how he was even green-lit, and him being another "guy who wants revenge"

Literal insanity
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To be clear I actually liked Black Panther-- far from my favorite MCU movie but it's good. That it was well received doesn't confuse me-- that it was the highest selling Marvel movie (at least for a time.. I think Infinity War will overtake it just barely with its last few weeks of showings) does.
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Nanis23 posted...

Weakupedia posted...

also, i didn'treally care about ant man 2, but now i want to watch it just to see how it handles a post-Snap earth.

This is before Infinity War

Before and during from what I have read.
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Lopen posted...

I mean I can kinda relate. I'm Russian and 95% of the time in film we're evil or spies or both

But I wouldn't exactly be rushing out to see a Colossus origin story set in Russia, either

I kinda just feel like maybe there is an overattribution somewhere here. Like just because it was a huge success and because it had a lot of black people in it doesn't mean it was a success because of that to a super meaningful level

You will love red sparrow you dirty evil Russian spy
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should I watch Black Panther to provide some of my patented Marvel hot takes?
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NFUN posted...

should I watch Black Panther to provide some of my patented Marvel hot takes?

Definitely.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/359/031/439.jpg

what was your opinion on kendrick lamar again?
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Ulti of all people unironically posted that?!?!
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redrocket posted...

Ulti of all people unironically posted that?!?!

Next thing you know he is going to say SotC and WC3 are not popular
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It's not like anyone was really hating on Black Panther in this topic either.

It's more that some people didn't see why it was so highly praised.
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Black Panther's popularity is largely due to the racial aspects, yes. there's a good movie in there with some good ideas but then it has to dumb things down to be a Marvel movie, which ends up being disappointing. also explains the pointless car chase - red letter media's review on it might be up your alley, lopen. in general they get movies right.

as for Infinity War, all i want in a sequel is Doom.
he has to be there, the Fox deal went through, gimme some Fantastic Four and Doom. or just him. that's okay too as hey, with Strange gone a second magician would be nice and this one has a power suit.
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I don't think that deal would actually take effect in movies until like 2020 or 2021
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Wanglicious posted...

red letter media's review on it might be up your alley, lopen. in general they get movies right.

well, jay in general gets movies right.

love mike to death but his movie opinions... eh. he literally thinks wolverine 1 is an awesome movie.
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Mike thought Jurassic World was great so sometimes I worry he has some kind of brain worm

(Crossing my fingers that I did not just start a fight about Jurassic World but I did not think it was a good movie)