Current Events > Trump administration says transgender prisoners will be put with biological sex

(+) Yeah! (+)

Disgusting administration this country has

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/5/14/17351636/trump-transgender-prison-lgbtq

This is very wrong.
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I was specifically told he would be a friend to the LGBT community
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Incredibly stupid and will just lead to a greater influx of assault.
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Oh, that is not going to turn out well.
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Antifar posted...

I was specifically told he would be a friend to the LGBT community

He'll say anything to look good, and then do a 180 when it's convenient. You really can't trust anything he says.

I dislike Trump too, but would you like to present proof he actually said this? A link or screenshot of his Twitter? Just saying, this could be fake.
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Duncanwii posted...

I dislike Trump too, but would you like to present proof he actually said this? A link or screenshot of his Twitter? Just saying, this could be fake.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4459297-BOP-Change-Order-Transgender-Offender-Manual-5.html
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And where would you put them?

Or you'd like to spend even more money and have them accomodated in their own transgender prison?

GunmaN1905 posted...

And where would you put them?

Or you'd like to spend even more money and have them accomodated in their own transgender prison?

Where they identify. It's not rocket science, dude.

TheVipaGTS posted...

Incredibly stupid and will just lead to a greater influx of assault.

Yeah I posted in a topic that I guess is purged now where a transgender was raped because they put her in with other prisoners after requesting them not to

Metro2 posted...

GunmaN1905 posted...

And where would you put them?

Or you'd like to spend even more money and have them accomodated in their own transgender prison?

Where they identify. It's not rocket science, dude.

Yeah, what about other prisoners? If they don't feel comfortable?

GunmaN1905 posted...

Metro2 posted...

GunmaN1905 posted...

And where would you put them?

Or you'd like to spend even more money and have them accomodated in their own transgender prison?

Where they identify. It's not rocket science, dude.

Yeah, what about other prisoners? If they don't feel comfortable?

Statistics show that transgender people are at greater risk of being assaulted.

Cis people are (relatively) fine.

I say if they have s penis they get put with male prisoners, if born without one they get put with women, just my opinion, dont waste tax money on special treatment, prison is supposed to be punishment
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The thing most people don't get, is that there are no prisons that "accommodate" transgender people.
Well before trump was even president, transgender people were sent to prison based on their biological sex
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dont waste tax money on special treatment

Yet people are fine with Trump wasting millions of tax money on his golf trips that could feed hundreds of thousands of our poor.

Darkrobotisback posted...

Well before trump was even president, transgender people were sent to prison based on their biological sex

But he is changing policy from the Obama-era standard that was more accommodating in this regard.

The previous guidelines recommend[ed] housing by gender identity when appropriate, generally including language that was friendlier or at least more vague toward placing trans inmates in facilities appropriate to their gender identity instead of the sex assigned to them at birth.

If he re-instituted the draft, he wouldn't get a pass because "we had a draft long before Trump."
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Nobody cares about the rights of prisoners, if they look enough like a girl to the point they get constantly assaulted, that's not the government's problem.
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So you guys would like it if a FtM who has not yet had any surgery or hormone blockers or anything like that be put in with the male prison population?

Trans inmates will be only be considered for housing based on their gender identity if there has been significant progress towards transition as demonstrated by medical and mental health history. Authorities must also consider whether placement would threaten the management and security of the institution and/or pose a risk to other inmates in the institution.

Sounds reasonable. Not all trans people have transitioned to the same degree. And medical and mental health history is an official way to make a judgement.
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It's so weird that this is something the president is concerned about or has authority over. I mean what, there are probably only a few thousand transgender prisoners locked up in the entire country at the very most?

Trump has shown that we need to rethink the entire position of the presidency.
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tremain07 posted...

Nobody cares about the rights of prisoners, if they look enough like a girl to the point they get constantly assaulted, that's not the government's problem.

I recently took an intros to corrections course last semester and I can say that yes, people do care about the rights of prisoners. In fact the entire last chapter of my textbook was detailing the court cases pertaining to the rights of prisoners.
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Metro2 posted...

Statistics show that transgender people are at greater risk of being assaulted.

This is really the only argument that matters. We have a factual answer as to where prisoners should be placed but Trump (and people like him) choose to ignore it.
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I feel like either way you're screwed since if you put a trans girl in with the real girls there's a risk of rape there too.
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Duncanwii posted...

tremain07 posted...

Nobody cares about the rights of prisoners, if they look enough like a girl to the point they get constantly assaulted, that's not the government's problem.

I recently took an intros to corrections course last semester and I can say that yes, people do care about the rights of prisoners. In fact the entire last chapter of my textbook was detailing the court cases pertaining to the rights of prisoners.

Okay let me rephrase that, People with power and influence don't care about the rights of prisoners.
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tremain07 posted...

Nobody cares about the rights of prisoners, if they look enough like a girl to the point they get constantly assaulted, that's not the government's problem.

Spoken like a true sadist. There's no reason to do this to them unless you derive pleasure from hurting them.
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Isn't this what transgenders want?
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voldothegr8 posted...

Isn't this what transgenders want?

This is the opposite of what they want
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DocileOrangeCup posted...

I feel like either way you're screwed since if you put a trans girl in with the real girls there's a risk of rape there too.

Theoretically, I suppose, but that threat isn't actually represented in the stats. You're basically imagining transgender sexual predators, exactly the way those assholes did in North Carolina and Mississippi before then using the imagined threats to try and pass transphobic laws.

For anyone who remembers life before 2013 or whenever, it was conservative fear-mongering about transgender people preying on women and children that even created this media focus on trans-issues in the first place.
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voldothegr8 posted...

Isn't this what transgenders want?

To be savagely beaten and raped every day of their lives? No.
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Antifar posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

Isn't this what transgenders want?

This is the opposite of what they want

Any other situation they want to be a part of the gender they identify as.
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Metro2 posted...

dont waste tax money on special treatment

Yet people are fine with Trump wasting millions of tax money on his golf trips that could feed hundreds of thousands of our poor.

Thats been all presidents, not just trump
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But, but he waved a rainbow flag. I thought he was an LGBT ally.

Where is the problem here? That is their biological sex. Unless people want gender neutral prisons or some shit
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hollow_shrine posted...

DocileOrangeCup posted...

I feel like either way you're screwed since if you put a trans girl in with the real girls there's a risk of rape there too.

Theoretically, I suppose, but that threat isn't actually represented in the stats. You're basically imagining transgender sexual predators, exactly the way those assholes did in North Carolina and Mississippi before then using the imagined threats to try and pass transphobic laws.

For anyone who remembers life before 2013 or whenever, it was conservative fear-mongering about transgender people preying on women and children that even created this media focus on trans-issues in the first place.

And gay men being vilified as rapists that prey on young men

skermac posted...

Metro2 posted...

dont waste tax money on special treatment

Yet people are fine with Trump wasting millions of tax money on his golf trips that could feed hundreds of thousands of our poor.

Thats been all presidents, not just trump

trump has taken more golf trips than any other president in history
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So what would you do? I mean pre op mtf in female jail gets raped possibly gets inmates pregnant. Pre op ftm in male prison definitely gets raped over and over and over possibly becoming pregnant only to get raped more if they even survive.

Unless we build jails just for trans people it is best to go by genitalia imo.
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if i was convicted of a serious crime i would definitely transition to female asap
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This shows how badly we need prison reform.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

This shows how badly we need prison reform.

Examples please? Not doubting just looking for ideas.
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RE_expert44 posted...

Where is the problem here? That is their biological sex. Unless people want gender neutral prisons or some shit

The fact that they are massively at risk to be brutally beaten and raped frequently.
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Im not a statistic wiz by any stretch but isnt the percentage technically skewed since there are far, far fewer trans inmates which means the actual rape percent is disproportionately higher? Either way, Im not sure where I stand here. It does piss me off that the government has to foot the bill for their treatment when they stupidly land themselves in prison.

UnfairRepresent posted...

RE_expert44 posted...

Where is the problem here? That is their biological sex. Unless people want gender neutral prisons or some shit

The fact that they are massively at risk to be brutally beaten and raped frequently.

That will happen no matter their gender, but if you do it the other way it could lead to pregnancy in inmates.
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Mistere Man posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

This shows how badly we need prison reform.

Examples please? Not doubting just looking for ideas.

Just the fact that there is a disgusting amount of violence in prisons.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

Mistere Man posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

This shows how badly we need prison reform.

Examples please? Not doubting just looking for ideas.

Just the fact that there is a disgusting amount of violence in prisons.

I agree but how do you stop it? I mean many are criminals because they are extremely violent.
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I don't think most anti-Trumpers will even read the article. They'll see the headline or topic title, and assume that absolutely no transgenders will be put in with a prison population that matches the gender they identify as. They will, but it's dependent on their medical and mental health history if they legitimately deserve special treatment. It's just a sensible and reasonable way to ascertain all this.
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Mistere Man posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

Mistere Man posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

This shows how badly we need prison reform.

Examples please? Not doubting just looking for ideas.

Just the fact that there is a disgusting amount of violence in prisons.

I agree but how do you stop it? I mean many are criminals because they are extremely violent.

That's a tough question, but one of the biggest problems is that the main goal of prison isn't rehabilitation.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

Mistere Man posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

Mistere Man posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

This shows how badly we need prison reform.

Examples please? Not doubting just looking for ideas.

Just the fact that there is a disgusting amount of violence in prisons.

I agree but how do you stop it? I mean many are criminals because they are extremely violent.

That's a tough question, but one of the biggest problems is that the main goal of prison isn't rehabilitation.

Fair point, but rehab may not work for all, and if you make prison too nice it becomes more a free retirement/vacation instead of a deterrent.
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good.
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Metro2 posted...

GunmaN1905 posted...

Metro2 posted...

GunmaN1905 posted...

And where would you put them?

Or you'd like to spend even more money and have them accomodated in their own transgender prison?

Where they identify. It's not rocket science, dude.

Yeah, what about other prisoners? If they don't feel comfortable?

Statistics show that transgender people are at greater risk of being assaulted.

Cis people are (relatively) fine.

Until they develop technology which will actually be able to truly change someone's sex, as in being able to reproduce after the transition, they're can't truly convert.

Cutting your dick off stitching a plastic one doesn't change your gender.

If they allow this, then more groups will try and find excuses like this.

Prison isn't safe for trans people in general.

But if a f>m preop trans person goes to jail where do you think they are safer?

In jail with females or in jail with males?
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