Board 8 > I just got back from midnight Avengers screening

(+) Yeah! (+)

go away ulti
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and take NFUN with you
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It was fine. Some really good things but a lot of mediocre. Trying to save Vision's life at the expense of all of Wakanda was super dumb, especially since Vision was okay with dying. All the Earth scenes were pretty boring and none of Cap's team felt developed. I loved that Thanos won but it feels super inconsequential knowing that there will inevitably be a deus ex machina to reverse what he did, likely with the time stone, so it's pretty hard to care.
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OliviaTremor posted...

It was fine. Some really good things but a lot of mediocre. Trying to save Vision's life at the expense of all of Wakanda was super dumb, especially since Vision was okay with dying. Some the Earth scenes were pretty boring and none of Cap's team felt developed. I loved that Thanos won but it feels super inconsequential knowing that there will inevitably be a deus ex machina to reverse what he did, likely with the time stone, so it's pretty hard to care.

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Is it really Deus Ex Machina when the time and reality stones are just kind of established things, I wonder?
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Not the best term, sure, but the rest of my critique stands. It all feels inconsequential. .
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Saw it a second time on Saturday, also watching a couple of MCU films between (Winter Soldier, still my favorite. Both Guardians, and Thor 2/3) the two infinity war showings (opening weekend and yesterday).

I definitely saw some things lacking in character development after not being wowed by the vastness. Banner being kinda a joke character in every scene was disappointing too. I thought a few characters acted a bit different from their normal movies (Cap kinda here imo). Thor, Black Widow, most of the Black Panther crew, and Rocket, Gamora, and Drax all seemed more or less the same.

Enjoyed it a lot still, but definitely saw a bit of flaws in it.
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yeah, i feel like infinity war is kinda like avengers 1. LOVED avengers when i saw it in theaters but once i saw it more times and the novelty of having all those characters together wore off its flaws became obvious to me. still a good movie but it's definitely not great.

and yeah, banner suuuuucked in this movie. i guess "jokey banner" already started in ragnarok but he was worse here.
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Jokey Banner was funny, but the lack of Hulk was one of the worst parts of the movie.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

Jokey Banner was funny,

disagree. he was sort of funny in ragnarok but he was just cringe here.
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I like the role that Banner has settled into. He's a humorous character whose humor isn't sarcastic, snarky, or both. The MCU NEEDS a straight man, and Cap can't be in every scene (he should be though).

I'll agree that Hulk has been underutilized. Aside from Avengers 1 (and his solo movie that I almost forgot existed), he's only existed so that the audience can gauge the power of other characters. He either jobs hard or stomps something that doesn't really matter.
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Look what you did, Shake.
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I honestly can't believe they introduced Banner's difficulty with the Hulk so early and then nothing changed for the rest of the 2.5 hours until the end of the movie.

That's why it's especially annoying when you don't know this is a 2-parter - stuff like that just seemed so lame and weird. Obviously by the end of the next movie the Hulk will be back, but he's still totally ruined in this movie.

And all this coming from the star of the most iconic scene in Avengers 1
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He's not "totally ruined". The guy had approximately 2 scenes where the Hulk would be valuable. In a film of 30 characters, you can't devote more time to that. I don't see people jumping off of the Hulk bandwagon for this.
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I've never been a big fan of Hulk to begin with, so it didn't really matter to me one way or the other how they used him here. In general, Hulk doesn't move the needle very much to begin with, I would imagine. There's a reason why he doesn't get solo movies anymore.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

The guy had approximately 2 scenes where the Hulk would be valuable

That's not what it's about, it's about the character of Banner

They had plenty of time to repeat over and over how Banner couldn't call up the Hulk

I agree the Hulk isn't too important but he's had such awesome small moments before that it definitely is a waste what they did in this movie (plus his fight with Thanos was one of the best so it was a sharp downhill from there)
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yeah, but "Hulk, why won't you come out and play?" was cringe-worthy
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I think the reason Hulk doesn't get solo movies is largely because he's difficult to write for as a solo act in movies. You have to go very heavily into the Banner end for it to work, which I guess is okay but then it's more of a Bruce Banner movie than a Hulk movie.

I'm not entirely sure how he's used in comics since I've never followed The Incredible Hulk stuff at all but I imagine it relies heavily on the ability to see his thoughts which isn't really something you can do very well in movies.
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foolm0r0n posted...

That's not what it's about, it's about the character of Banner

They had plenty of time to repeat over and over how Banner couldn't call up the Hulk

I agree the Hulk isn't too important but he's had such awesome small moments before that it definitely is a waste what they did in this movie (plus his fight with Thanos was one of the best so it was a sharp downhill from there)

1) Why waste the ending to the character of Banner reconciling with Hulk in the movie where he has to lose anyways in order for the story to move forward?

2) Which other fight scene did they have "plenty of time" to insert Hulk into? A little goes a long way.

3) Hulk having awesome moments loses its potency when you give him more and more of them in scenes where a win doesn't matter.

4) The MCU is a serialized story. Get used to it. When there aren't origin stories in front of you, there will be incremental development.
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Lopen posted...

I think the reason Hulk doesn't get solo movies is largely because he's difficult to write for as a solo act in movies. You have to go very heavily into the Banner end for it to work, which I guess is okay but then it's more of a Bruce Banner movie than a Hulk movie.

I'm not entirely sure how he's used in comics since I've never followed The Incredible Hulk stuff at all but I imagine it relies heavily on the ability to see his thoughts which isn't really something you can do very well in movies.

This is pretty accurate. Hundreds of issues in the most famous Hulk runs rely on the dichotomy between the internal personalities of Hulk and Banner clashing. Hulk's psychologist, Doc Samson, is a major fixture in many decades' worth of Hulk tales.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

SeabassDebeste posted...

Jokey Banner was funny,

disagree. he was sort of funny in ragnarok but he was just cringe here.

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scarletspeed7 posted...

1) Why waste the ending to the character of Banner reconciling with Hulk in the movie where he has to lose anyways in order for the story to move forward?

2) Which other fight scene did they have "plenty of time" to insert Hulk into? A little goes a long way.

3) Hulk having awesome moments loses its potency when you give him more and more of them in scenes where a win doesn't matter.

1. Not the ending, just ANY development beyond "wahhh why won't hulky-boo come to pwayyyy"

2. Those 5 or so times where they showed the Hulk half-coming out even though we already saw that exact same thing 4 times already

3. No it doesn't
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

he's only existed so that the audience can gauge the power of other characters

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect
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foolm0r0n posted...

1. Not the ending, just ANY development beyond "wahhh why won't hulky-boo come to pwayyyy"

Hulk being released and immediately losing to Thanos causes a lack of impact for the audience because Thanos is already going over. He's already being built as a significant threat. Two losses to Thanos in the same movie is repetitive and unnecessary

foolm0r0n posted...

2. Those 5 or so times where they showed the Hulk half-coming out even though we already saw that exact same thing 4 times already

Oh, so you agree with me. We didn't need more Hulk.

foolm0r0n posted...

3. No it doesn't

Go read some comics where characters are given triumphant returns only to be jobbed out and tell me that they still come across as important.
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Per the Russos Banner and Hulk are in the middle of a three movie arc from Ragnarok to A4.

He spent two years (probably longer due to Sakaar's time shenanigans) as a bully winning fixed fights on Sakaar that he didn't know were fixed, advanced to a childlike state, then got his ass beat and did what any child would do and hid.

Banner and Hulk will come to terms and finish out the arc.

Banner was fine in this movie. Not sure why people have such a beef with him.
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i mean, they kinda shoved a hulk solo movie into ragnarok >_>

wasn't the best idea imo, but at least they TRIED to do something with the character!
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Go read some comics where characters are given triumphant returns only to be jobbed out and tell me that they still come across as important.

Done

What next?
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Oh, so you agree with me. We didn't need more Hulk.

No shit, learn to read. I wanted BETTER SCENES for Hulk not the same lame thing repeated 5 times. And then you wonder why I treat you like an idiot.
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foolm0r0n posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Go read some comics where characters are given triumphant returns only to be jobbed out and tell me that they still come across as important.

Done

What next?

Glad you understand then.
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foolm0r0n posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Oh, so you agree with me. We didn't need more Hulk.

No shit, learn to read. I wanted BETTER SCENES for Hulk not the same lame thing repeated 5 times. And then you wonder why I treat you like an idiot.

EDIT: Have I ever given you reason to believe I wonder why you treat me like an idiot?

You did not once say that you wanted better scenes, so perhaps you should learn how to communicate better! Your point of view really just consists of "I want to armchair book this storyline so it appeals to my timetable and my understanding of storytelling!"
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For the record, the reason Hulk doesn't get solo movies anymore is because Universal has distribution rights and Marvel/Disney doesn't want to play ball with them anymore.

They're allowed to use him in team-up movies free of charge, but solo requires hoops.
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I think Hulk needed to fail to come out multiple times for it to be clear that it was more of a problem than the usual, since Hulk not immediately coming out to fight right when Banner has wanted him to has happened before in the movies. It needed to be a repeating thing to drive it home because yeah otherwise it's the same thing that happened in Ragnarok or even the first Avengers movie.

Maybe the execution should have been better but I didn't really have a problem with it.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

It's because you have no social acuity and don't deign to have a conversation with someone else without the fear that it might be recognized you lack the ability to learn

Right, it's entirely my fault even though I have perfectly fine conversations with literally everyone, except you and vlado and ulti. I'll try to work harder at making you guys better users in the future.
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foolm0r0n posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

It's because you have no social acuity and don't deign to have a conversation with someone else without the fear that it might be recognized you lack the ability to learn

Right, it's entirely my fault even though I have perfectly fine conversations with literally everyone, except you and vlado and ulti. I'll try to work harder at making you guys better users in the future.

I would be happy to discuss any problems you have with me in a more private setting. As it is, I thought until you resorted to namecalling that we were having a perfectly amicable discussion that took a bizarrely rude turn.
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foolm0r0n posted...

Right, it's entirely my fault even though I have perfectly fine conversations with literally everyone, except you and vlado and ulti.

Do even you believe this, or is this part of the schtick?
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LapisLazuli posted...

Do even you believe this, or is this part of the schtick?

I guess I could add you to that list too
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foolm0r0n posted...

2. Those 5 or so times where they showed the Hulk half-coming out even though we already saw that exact same thing 4 times already

I just rewatched the movie the other day and paid specific attention to those scenes and it only technically happened twice. So. Yeah.
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Waluigi1 posted...

I just rewatched the movie the other day and paid specific attention to those scenes and it only technically happened twice. So. Yeah.

2 of half-Hulk sounds right. But there were also 1 or 2 where Banner was just straining and couldn't get Hulk to come out at all.
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I don't think the Hulk thing needed to be resolved this movie. I do think the scenes involving it felt lackluster thing. It didn't feel like as big of a deal as it should have.
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foolm0r0n posted...

Waluigi1 posted...

I just rewatched the movie the other day and paid specific attention to those scenes and it only technically happened twice. So. Yeah.

2 of half-Hulk sounds right. But there were also 1 or 2 where Banner was just straining and couldn't get Hulk to come out at all.

Nah, there wasn't any extra. You're just exaggerating.
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foolm0r0n posted...

No shit, learn to read. I wanted BETTER SCENES for Hulk not the same lame thing repeated 5 times. And then you wonder why I treat you like an idiot.

Hulk half-coming out only happened in two scenes man
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yeah, the hulk has always been kind of a boring character solo. SUPER useful as a neutral force/obstacle/foil for others. the original avengers fought each other a LOT

there's a special place in my heart for some of the thing vs. hulk battles. super strong vs. SUPER strong and dumb at its best

i think the plotline was enough to show that the hulk was weaker and afraid of thanos. he already got his ass kicked with one stone, no need to do it again at 3 or 4.

the only nerd thing i thought was kind of weird throughout the movie was the strength scales. the hulk should be about a billion times stronger than captain america, but thanos seemed to have a little trouble with cap

the most minor quibble. movie's good.
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Thanos didn't use the stone at all when he whupped Hulk though.

The stones glow when he uses them. He kicked Hulk's ass all on his own.

As for Cap...Thanos wasn't having trouble, at all from what I could tell. I think Cap realized very quickly that Thanos needed to make a fist to use the gauntlet and he was trying to keep his hand open. Thanos' face is one of intrigue before he decks him and ends it.
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Waluigi1 posted...

Nah, there wasn't any extra. You're just exaggerating.

After he landed in Doctor Strange's temple and during the fights after he tried to Hulk and it didn't work. There was no half-Hulk there.
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Murphiroth posted...

As for Cap...Thanos wasn't having trouble, at all from what I could tell. I think Cap realized very quickly that Thanos needed to make a fist to use the gauntlet and he was trying to keep his hand open. Thanos' face is one of intrigue before he decks him and ends it.

Yeah, this. Cap impressed Thanos, but wasn't actually a match for him
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Actually, you know what would have been interesting to me?

When Thanos snapped his fingers, Banner is dead... but leaves behind The Hulk in his place, free to be himself at last.
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foolm0r0n posted...

After he landed in Doctor Strange's temple and during the fights after he tried to Hulk and it didn't work. There was no half-Hulk there.

Right after Tony goes "Banner, you want a piece?" he tried to Hulk out there and couldn't a couple of times but that was only during that scene.

The only other time was when he was in the Hulk Buster fighting that ugly dickhead working for Thanos.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

foolm0r0n posted...

After he landed in Doctor Strange's temple and during the fights after he tried to Hulk and it didn't work. There was no half-Hulk there.

Right after Tony goes "Banner, you want a piece?" he tried to Hulk out there and couldn't a couple of times but that was only during that scene.

The only other time was when he was in the Hulk Buster fighting that ugly dickhead working for Thanos.

Yup.
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No one's reading my posts so whatever
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