Current Events > Toyota: Self-driving cars could kill hundreds but save tens of thousands

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/03/29/self-driving-cars-uber-crash-toyota/468804002/

NEW YORK Self-driving cars could kill hundreds of people every year in the early going but save many more lives, a Toyota executive said Thursday at an event near the New York Auto Show.

After a self-driving Uber car killed a pedestrian in Arizona earlier this month, concerns about the movement toward autonomous transportation have escalated.

But Toyota North America CEO Jim Lentz said Thursday that more deaths are coming as automakers and tech companies pursue self-driving vehicles.

"The reality is there will be mistakes along the way," he said at a Reuters news event moderated by reporter David Shepardson. "A hundred or 500 or a thousand people could lose their lives in accidents like weve seen in Arizona."

The question is whether it's worth it if self-driving cars also avert tens of thousands of deadly accidents every year.

Lentz said Americans aren't yet ready to accept that paradigm.

"Thats really going to slow down the adoption of autonomous driving," he said.

Lentz estimated that autonomous vehicles could eventually save 35,000 lives annually, representing the 98% of deadly crashes blamed on driver error.

The auto industry needs to "convince consumers that the idea of the computer driving your car" can be "a good thing," Lentz said.

Lentz's comments came after Toyota quickly suspended its own self-driving car tests following the Uber crash.

But the suspension won't last long, he said.

"I think well be testing again soon," he said. "The reason that we paused was more because we were concerned about the impact it had on our drivers, not necessarily our technology."

In "a short period of time," Toyota will resume tests, he said.

The company has set a goal of introducing a system that can partially drive the vehicle by the 2020 Summer Olympics.

It's the classic trolley problem and Toyota gets it.
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Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.
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The hundreds that would be killed are idiots who wouldve died anyway because of stupid jaywalking. See the idiot jaywalker that got killed for jaywalking like an idiot.
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Hasn't every accident involving a self driving car been the fault of a human? People need to stop being spooked by technology. I'll take a few hundred deaths over 30,000 a year.

Funny how similar this is to when cars were first introduced to society. Idiots kept getting killed and reactionists wanted to ban automobiles altogether.
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car company says some have to die to robots and its okay

alrighty then.
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myzz7 posted...

car company says some have to die to robots and its okay

alrighty then.

how is it not ok?
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How about we put our bottles of beer down, our cell phones, and fucking drive our cars the way we have been for many many years.
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Caution999 posted...

How about we put our bottles of beer down, our cell phones, and fucking drive our cars the way we have been for many many years.

Or embrace technology which would make both safe to do in a car!
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Caution999 posted...

How about we put our bottles of beer down, our cell phones, and fucking drive our cars the way we have been for many many years.

The moment the government mandated computer control of vehicles, self-driving was imminent.
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I am very surprised TC and Caution are endorsing a Japanese company.
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voldothegr8 posted...

Caution999 posted...

How about we put our bottles of beer down, our cell phones, and fucking drive our cars the way we have been for many many years.

Or embrace technology which would make both safe to do in a car!

I feel like theres a way they can perfect the technology without killing innocent people. Cant they test this crap on private land?
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Veggeta X posted...

I am very surprised TC and Caution are endorsing a Japanese company.

What are you talking about? Im not for or against anything here. Just throwing my shitposting around like usual :P
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I'm too much of a car enthusiast, will never give up driving. I could see myself sneaking out at 1 a.m. driving some back road looking over anxiously to make sure no cops are around.

There's gonna be a point where self driving will be much more better than humans and people will argue manual driving is no longer needed.

I agree with Toyota.
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ImInTHIS posted...

I'm too much of a car enthusiast, will never give up driving. I could see myself sneaking out at 1 a.m. driving some back road looking over anxiously to make sure no cops are around.

Honestly right now, I feel safer knowing Im in control of my car. Maybe when I start getting into my 70s and my reflexes and awareness werent what they once were, then maybe Ill go with AI, but for now, its not hard to drive a vehicle. If you pay attention to your surroundings - you can enjoy a safe experience. That said, I cant control other peoples behavior on the road, so its always a risk when we get in the car no matter what. That and humans arent perfect. I am prone to making a mistake as well.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roNlgIY9QKw" data-time="
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Sounds like the argument for the death penalty.
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darkjedilink posted...

Caution999 posted...

How about we put our bottles of beer down, our cell phones, and fucking drive our cars the way we have been for many many years.

The moment the government mandated computer control of vehicles, self-driving was imminent.

it's literally the government's fault that technology is advancing. HOW DARE THEY
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Caution999 posted...

ImInTHIS posted...

I'm too much of a car enthusiast, will never give up driving. I could see myself sneaking out at 1 a.m. driving some back road looking over anxiously to make sure no cops are around.

Honestly right now, I feel safer knowing Im in control of my car. Maybe when I start getting into my 70s and my reflexes and awareness werent what they once were, then maybe Ill go with AI, but for now, its not hard to drive a vehicle. If you pay attention to your surroundings - you can enjoy a safe experience. That said, I cant control other peoples behavior on the road, so its always a risk when we get in the car no matter what. That and humans arent perfect. I am prone to making a mistake as well.

Which is why I prefer self driving cars. No matter how safe and attentive I am, there is no guarantee the people driving around me are the same. At least with machines, they make far less mistakes.
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Caution999 posted...

ImInTHIS posted...

I'm too much of a car enthusiast, will never give up driving. I could see myself sneaking out at 1 a.m. driving some back road looking over anxiously to make sure no cops are around.

Honestly right now, I feel safer knowing Im in control of my car. Maybe when I start getting into my 70s and my reflexes and awareness werent what they once were, then maybe Ill go with AI, but for now, its not hard to drive a vehicle. If you pay attention to your surroundings - you can enjoy a safe experience. That said, I cant control other peoples behavior on the road, so its always a risk when we get in the car no matter what. That and humans arent perfect. I am prone to making a mistake as well.

not matter how fast your reflexes are you cannot compete with a computer that has multiple cameras, infrared and sonar devices scanning 360 non-stop.
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Caution999 posted...

How about we put our bottles of beer down, our cell phones, and fucking drive our cars the way we have been for many many years.

The moment the government mandated computer control of vehicles, self-driving was imminent.

it's literally the government's fault that technology is advancing. HOW DARE THEY

Im not against it. I just cant imagine why there isnt a test area on private property. I also think its foolish to push this forward as the only option. So what? 100 years from now nobody will have the experience of manually driving a car? What if they are put in a position where these things are hacked? Yes, Im fully aware most cars on the road now are computers- but at least I have manual control over the thing.
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Veggeta X posted...

I am very surprised TC and Caution are endorsing a Japanese company.

Why?
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Caution999 posted...

ImInTHIS posted...

I'm too much of a car enthusiast, will never give up driving. I could see myself sneaking out at 1 a.m. driving some back road looking over anxiously to make sure no cops are around.

Honestly right now, I feel safer knowing Im in control of my car. Maybe when I start getting into my 70s and my reflexes and awareness werent what they once were, then maybe Ill go with AI, but for now, its not hard to drive a vehicle. If you pay attention to your surroundings - you can enjoy a safe experience. That said, I cant control other peoples behavior on the road, so its always a risk when we get in the car no matter what. That and humans arent perfect. I am prone to making a mistake as well.

There's going to be a point where it's perfected. At that point humans don't need to drive at all and accident's will look like family picnic

Im still trying to figure out where I endorsed anything

Overall Id rather support an American company, but Im not against people buying foreign vehicles. I only say this because most American manufacturers very likely outsource a lot of crap anyway.

I dont like Toyotas. Oddly enough I like the Lexus - which is a fancier Toyota Lol.

Im not a person who cares about spending money on a car though. I dont need luxury. I need to get from point A to point B. Whatever can do that, while appearing half decent, is the only thing Ill ever want.
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How can they bring up that Arizona incident as a reason to pull testing? Anyone, AI or human would have hit that person.
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Caution999 posted...

I just cant imagine why there isnt a test area on private property.

i think they did extensive testing on private property but that just cannot emulate the same situations one would encounter in real-world driving scenarios. you can only make a test track so complicated, ya know?

Caution999 posted...

I also think its foolish to push this forward as the only option.

it'll be interesting to see what the driving landscape looks like in ~20 years once self-driving is a normal and established technology. i know that lots of people enjoy driving and some won't want to be 'forced' to adopt this new technology. but at a certain point we'll have to ask ourselves if that luxury is worth us taking on the risk of imperfect operators potentially harming others.

Caution999 posted...

So what? 100 years from now nobody will have the experience of manually driving a car?

im not sure that's a problem. we've abandoned an awful lot of things that technology has replaced. are you sad that hardly anyone knows how to operate a horse and buggy now? or that we don't have to pump our own water from wells?

maybe manual driving cars will become a hobby more than anything else and only enthusiasts will pursue it.

Caution999 posted...

Im still trying to figure out where I endorsed anything

yeah im awfully confused as to where that came from
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Caution999 posted...

How about we put our bottles of beer down, our cell phones, and fucking drive our cars the way we have been for many many years.

Well maybe some people don't like driving.

WELL JUST TAKE UBER EVERYWHERE THEN, FFS.

...
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I'm not really against self driving cars, but I'll be that guy that's still manually driving 40 years from now that all the self driving enthusiasts will give dirty looks to
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Caution999 posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Caution999 posted...

How about we put our bottles of beer down, our cell phones, and fucking drive our cars the way we have been for many many years.

The moment the government mandated computer control of vehicles, self-driving was imminent.

it's literally the government's fault that technology is advancing. HOW DARE THEY

Im not against it. I just cant imagine why there isnt a test area on private property. I also think its foolish to push this forward as the only option. So what? 100 years from now nobody will have the experience of manually driving a car? What if they are put in a position where these things are hacked? Yes, Im fully aware most cars on the road now are computers- but at least I have manual control over the thing.

Uh....There are tons of test areas on private property. These things have probably been on private property the past 10 years.

We're getting real close, The testing is in beta stages, just a couple tweaks

I remember reading on the same day as the Uber self-driving fatality, there were something like 120 other people killed in car accidents in the U.S.
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The Admiral posted...

I remember reading on the same day as the Uber self-driving fatality, there were something like 120 other people killed in car accidents in the U.S.

I'm fairly confident that if you compare accidents per mile in similar driving conditions, AI controlled vehicles are considerably safer than human operated ones.

but i have absolutely no source for this aside from my rear end so
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Were_Wyrm posted...

Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

If an idiot runs over your niece, you sue him and get money or put him in jail.

If skyneToyota's car runs happily over your niece.... sucks to be your niece.

Shuto-uke posted...

Were_Wyrm posted...

Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

If an idiot runs over your niece, you sue him and get money or put him in jail.

If skyneToyota's car runs happily over your niece.... sucks to be your niece.

This is the biggest hurdle self driving cars face, blame. Many humans flip out if they can't blame someone.

Also worth mentioning for your first example, they'll only be successfully sued or thrown in jail if they were driving impaired or have no insurance.
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specialkid8 posted...

I'll take a few hundred deaths over 30,000 a year.

Caution999 posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

Caution999 posted...

How about we put our bottles of beer down, our cell phones, and fucking drive our cars the way we have been for many many years.

Or embrace technology which would make both safe to do in a car!

I feel like theres a way they can perfect the technology without killing innocent people. Cant they test this crap on private land?

They could but they wouldn't get any meaningful data from it at this point. In order for the technology to continue progressing it needs real world data.
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To be fair, the people killed so far were jay walkers.

Time to start obeying the fucking law.
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Nah. No death is necessary and that's a terrible sentiment and precedent to set. Also as someone that works with computers...hell no. I'd never trust a self-driving car. Ever. It's arguable if it's even an improvement over most of the idiot drivers on the road tbh.
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Knowledge_King posted...

It's arguable if it's even an improvement over most of the idiot drivers on the road tbh.

How many self driving accidents have there been over the last few years? Two? Three? A dozen? How many manual driver accidents have there been in the same frame? 6 figures? 7 figures? One would have to be pretty dense to believe it's arguable at all.
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

Caution999 posted...

I just cant imagine why there isnt a test area on private property.

i think they did extensive testing on private property but that just cannot emulate the same situations one would encounter in real-world driving scenarios. you can only make a test track so complicated, ya know?

Caution999 posted...

I also think its foolish to push this forward as the only option.

it'll be interesting to see what the driving landscape looks like in ~20 years once self-driving is a normal and established technology. i know that lots of people enjoy driving and some won't want to be 'forced' to adopt this new technology. but at a certain point we'll have to ask ourselves if that luxury is worth us taking on the risk of imperfect operators potentially harming others.

Caution999 posted...

So what? 100 years from now nobody will have the experience of manually driving a car?

im not sure that's a problem. we've abandoned an awful lot of things that technology has replaced. are you sad that hardly anyone knows how to operate a horse and buggy now? or that we don't have to pump our own water from wells?

maybe manual driving cars will become a hobby more than anything else and only enthusiasts will pursue it.

Caution999 posted...

Im still trying to figure out where I endorsed anything

yeah im awfully confused as to where that came from

But what is life without taking risks?

Typical Nanny BS, offence.

Until a cyber terrorist organization hack the cars and cause them to crash or the AI takes over and crash.
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Knowledge_King posted...

It's arguable if it's even an improvement over most of the idiot drivers on the road tbh.

Except you have miles per accident stats to look at.

Like is your basis for your argument "Wow the computers I work with mess up sometimes".
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That dumb bitch only got ran over cause of her own actions. She wasn't paying attention to shit. She failed to notice the pair of headlights barreling towards her as she crossed the road at a nails pace in dark clothing in the middle of the night.
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Ben_Ruggiero posted...

That dumb bitch only got ran over cause of her own actions. She wasn't paying attention to shit. She failed to notice the pair of headlights barreling towards her as she crossed the road at a nails pace in dark clothing in the middle of the night.

Not to mention the 10 jaywalkers that were killed the week prior in the same area by normal drivers.
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Whenever I see predictions of self-driving cars making manual driving obsolete in the near future, I have to wonder, why haven't self-driving trains been the industry standard for several decades by now? As opposed to highways, mountain roads, and city streets, where intersections, traffic and especially pedestrians, present (often unpredictable) variables for the AI to keep track of, trains travel on rails and mostly only need to account for the speed limits, stop and depart at stations, and ensure they don't end up on the wrong track or collide with another train.
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Thompson posted...

Whenever I see predictions of self-driving cars making manual driving obsolete in the near future, I have to wonder, why haven't self-driving trains been the industry standard for several decades by now? As opposed to highways, mountain roads, and city streets, where intersections, traffic and especially pedestrians, present (often unpredictable) variables for the AI to keep track of, trains travel on rails and mostly only need to account for the speed limits, stop and depart at stations, and ensure they don't end up on the wrong track or collide with another train.

A train isn't very likely to go directly from your house to Taco Bell at 2:37 in the morning.
That's why.