Current Events > Trump signs order banning most trans troops

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/23/trump-transgender-troops-ban-483434

President Donald Trump on Friday issued orders to ban transgender troops from serving in the military except in select cases following through on a controversial pledge last year that has been under review by the Pentagon and fought out in the courts.

The memorandum, filed in U.S. District Court in Seattle, states that while the Secretary of Defense and other executive branch officials will have some latitude in implementing the policy, "persons with a history or diagnosis of gender dysphoria including individuals who the policies state may require substantial medical treatment, including medications and surgery are disqualified from military service except under limited circumstances.

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Trump cares about trans because he doesn't want them to be killed in the military.

Good guy trump.

m i rite
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2020 needs to hurry da fuck up.
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I can see where he is coming from for select cases. Where there is mental issues present or the person may be suicidal. It's a huge liability.
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you wanna fight and die for your country like a god damn american patriot??!!?!

well.. are you trans? cuz you can't.
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Don't ban trans but if they're on daily scripts, absolutely don't allow them. (Assuming daily medication is already a disqualifier)
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RE_expert44 posted...

I can see where he is coming from for select cases. Where there is mental issues present or the person may be suicidal. It's a huge liability.

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It is funny how Republicans fucking attack the troops. And their supporters are fine with it. But when a black guy takes a knee. These say people cry bloody murder.
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What a fucking ally. Totally no one has been for the LGBT more than this guy.
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Supposedly this is the execution of that mess from last summer. Thing is, I thought that had gotten tied up in courts and laughed of the pentagon who requested he structure a proposal before they just blindly implemented it. I have no idea what's going on.
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cjsdowg posted...

It is funny how Republicans fucking attack the troops.

When you don't consider them real troops, it's easy to be a piece of shit. Such is how dehumanization works.
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Nightmare_Luna posted...

RE_expert44 posted...

I can see where he is coming from for select cases. Where there is mental issues present or the person may be suicidal. It's a huge liability.

so what's he doing for all the other sucidal vets with mental disorders
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So hypothetical question. Let's say a trans male to female soldier gets captured by the enemy. Knowing what happens to female prisoners of war, do we play it cool and try to negotiate or storm the enemy camp to try and save that soldier asap?

Basically would a trans person be treated 100% the same as their male counterparts?
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NINExATExSEVEN posted...

So hypothetical question. Let's say a trans male to female soldier gets captured by the enemy. Knowing what happens to female prisoners of war, do we play it cool and try to negotiate or storm the enemy camp to try and save that soldier asap?

Basically would a trans person be treated 100% the same as their male counterparts?

How is this any different from a cis female soldier
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NINExATExSEVEN defends wht nationalism35 seconds ago

Hypothetically, shut the fuck up and never post here again.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

When you don't consider them real troops, it's easy to be a piece of s***. Such is how dehumanization works.

You are right,and it makes me sad.
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ASithLord7 posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

So hypothetical question. Let's say a trans male to female soldier gets captured by the enemy. Knowing what happens to female prisoners of war, do we play it cool and try to negotiate or storm the enemy camp to try and save that soldier asap?

Basically would a trans person be treated 100% the same as their male counterparts?

How is this any different from a cis female soldier

Well for starters a cis female soldier probably won't be on the front line in direct contact with the enemy. A trans person would want to be treated 100% equally to his fellow male soldiers.

So in the case that a trans solider get's captured, do we risk other soldiers lives to save the trans solider asap or do we follow standard procedure as if we're dealing with a cis male soldier and wait it out?
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LIsJustice posted...

2020 needs to hurry da fuck up.

I'm also looking forward to his 2nd term.
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shockthemonkey posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

ASithLord7 posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

So hypothetical question. Let's say a trans male to female soldier gets captured by the enemy. Knowing what happens to female prisoners of war, do we play it cool and try to negotiate or storm the enemy camp to try and save that soldier asap?

Basically would a trans person be treated 100% the same as their male counterparts?

How is this any different from a cis female soldier

Well for starters a cis female soldier probably won't be on the front line in direct contact with the enemy. A trans person would want to be treated 100% equally to his fellow male soldiers.

So in the case that a trans solider get's captured, do we risk other soldiers lives to save the trans solider asap or do we follow standard procedure as if we're dealing with a cis male soldier and wait it out?

Gold medal in the mental gymnastics

What gymnastics? I simply want to know if a trans solider is always treated as a male or do we make exceptions that can potentially compromise a mission or put lives at risk?

This is a very simple thing to answer.
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LIsJustice posted...

2020 needs to hurry da fuck up.

yeah it will be hilarious when he is re-elected. there will be so many tears from Americans on this board
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Fuck Trump and fuck the military and all its weird discriminatory qualifications.

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

ASithLord7 posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

So hypothetical question. Let's say a trans male to female soldier gets captured by the enemy. Knowing what happens to female prisoners of war, do we play it cool and try to negotiate or storm the enemy camp to try and save that soldier asap?

Basically would a trans person be treated 100% the same as their male counterparts?

How is this any different from a cis female soldier

Well for starters a cis female soldier probably won't be on the front line in direct contact with the enemy. A trans person would want to be treated 100% equally to his fellow male soldiers.

So in the case that a trans solider get's captured, do we risk other soldiers lives to save the trans solider asap or do we follow standard procedure as if we're dealing with a cis male soldier and wait it out?

Gold medal in the mental gymnastics

What gymnastics? I simply want to know if a trans solider is always treated as a male or do we make exceptions that can potentially compromise a mission or put lives at risk?

This is a very simple thing to answer.

Why would an exception be made?
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"require substantial medical treatment, including medications and surgery"

This is a good decision. So many other things disqualify a person from serving in the military. This shouldn't be an exception.
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NINExATExSEVEN posted...

So hypothetical question. Let's say a trans male to female soldier gets captured by the enemy. Knowing what happens to female prisoners of war, do we play it cool and try to negotiate or storm the enemy camp to try and save that soldier asap?

Basically would a trans person be treated 100% the same as their male counterparts?

I don't think you quite understand, so I'mma break it down for you.

No matter who you are, if you're captured by the enemy, you're probably gonna be tortured and raped no matter what gender you go by. And yes, they'd be treated the same because a soldier in distress is a fucking soldier in distress.
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Capn Circus posted...

"require substantial medical treatment, including medications and surgery"

This is a good decision. So many other things disqualify a person from serving in the military. This shouldn't be an exception.

Why are Republicans so in love with thinking fucking more people over is the way to do equality?
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Anyone who supports trump is a racisit tool
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hockeybub89 posted...

Capn Circus posted...

"require substantial medical treatment, including medications and surgery"

This is a good decision. So many other things disqualify a person from serving in the military. This shouldn't be an exception.

Why are Republicans so in love with thinking fucking more people over is the way to do equality?

It's not "****ing" more people over. There are standards, requirements, abilities for every job---particularly the military.

Someone going through major surgery to have their gender reassigned and to be on all sorts of hormone medications is an inhibitor to productivity and safety.
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hockeybub89 posted...

Capn Circus posted...

"require substantial medical treatment, including medications and surgery"

This is a good decision. So many other things disqualify a person from serving in the military. This shouldn't be an exception.

Why are Republicans so in love with thinking fucking more people over is the way to do equality?

The number of trans people serving is such that even if everyone of them were to begin the layered processes of transitioning the cost to the military would be negligible next to other non-essential medical military expenditures. The difference is entirely in the number of people who use these services. The justification the White House has put forward her has been debated, it was laid out last summer. They've not got a rational leg to stand on.
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hockeybub89 posted...

Fuck Trump and fuck the military and all its weird discriminatory qualifications.

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

ASithLord7 posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

So hypothetical question. Let's say a trans male to female soldier gets captured by the enemy. Knowing what happens to female prisoners of war, do we play it cool and try to negotiate or storm the enemy camp to try and save that soldier asap?

Basically would a trans person be treated 100% the same as their male counterparts?

How is this any different from a cis female soldier

Well for starters a cis female soldier probably won't be on the front line in direct contact with the enemy. A trans person would want to be treated 100% equally to his fellow male soldiers.

So in the case that a trans solider get's captured, do we risk other soldiers lives to save the trans solider asap or do we follow standard procedure as if we're dealing with a cis male soldier and wait it out?

Gold medal in the mental gymnastics

What gymnastics? I simply want to know if a trans solider is always treated as a male or do we make exceptions that can potentially compromise a mission or put lives at risk?

This is a very simple thing to answer.

Why would an exception be made?

Because female prisoners of war get... well you know. They go through fucked up shit so the enemy can send a message or demand surrender etc.

This isn't an issue with male prisoners of war. So if allowing trans soliders in the military is a good thing in the eyes of progressives (I think it is), do we acknowledge the risks and decide to treat every situation as if they were cis males, or do we only do that as kind gesture of respect, but then treat them like they're women if things ever hit rock bottom in terms of danger or what needs to be done to finish the mission?

Do we create double standards, yes or no?
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Capn Circus posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Capn Circus posted...

"require substantial medical treatment, including medications and surgery"

This is a good decision. So many other things disqualify a person from serving in the military. This shouldn't be an exception.

Why are Republicans so in love with thinking fucking more people over is the way to do equality?

It's not "****ing" more people over. There are standards, requirements, abilities for every job---particularly the military.

Someone going through major surgery to have their gender reassigned and to be on all sorts of hormone medications is an inhibitor to productivity and safety.

We give people medications and surgeries for conditions specifically so they can function better. The military discriminates in ways most jobs can't. I'm not talking about paraplegic dwarves with downs syndrome not being allowed to serve in combat roles. People get disqualified from the military in general for conditions (literally ADHD) that they can easily manage with various therapies and perform any other physical or leadership role in other jobs. The military doesn't have higher standards, but archaic and ignorant ones.
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I feel like people are valuing the concept of dying in the military a bit too much here. First off, we should be preventing wars in general by making efforts to lessening the amount of troops in the whole world. Second, the whole die for your country thing is an American propaganda. In the grand scheme of things, having less people to die for your country in the modern days don't really make your country greater. You'll just have a lot of sad relatives and more graves otherwise
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Freddie_Mercury posted...

Nightmare_Luna posted...

RE_expert44 posted...

I can see where he is coming from for select cases. Where there is mental issues present or the person may be suicidal. It's a huge liability.

so what's he doing for all the other sucidal vets with mental disorders

One thing at a time my man
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hockeybub89 posted...

Capn Circus posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Capn Circus posted...

"require substantial medical treatment, including medications and surgery"

This is a good decision. So many other things disqualify a person from serving in the military. This shouldn't be an exception.

Why are Republicans so in love with thinking fucking more people over is the way to do equality?

It's not "****ing" more people over. There are standards, requirements, abilities for every job---particularly the military.

Someone going through major surgery to have their gender reassigned and to be on all sorts of hormone medications is an inhibitor to productivity and safety.

We give people medications and surgeries for conditions specifically so they can function better. The military discriminates in ways most jobs can't. I'm not talking about paraplegic dwarves with downs syndrome not being allowed to serve in combat roles. People get disqualified for conditions that they can easily manage with various therapies and perform any other physical or leadership role.

A military, of any country, should be fully operational and ready to go on a moments notice. No talk of "Oh well ____ is taking his/her new hormone medication and isn't feeling well"

We don't need our military full of people with medical conditions/limitations. Wanting to go from a man to a woman or woman to a man is a major medical both physically and mentally.

If you feel people are being declined from the military unfounded, you should first and foremost take issue to that---which has been going on for decades---versus rushes out to say how intolerant an administration is for being pragmatic.
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RE_expert44 posted...

Freddie_Mercury posted...

Nightmare_Luna posted...

RE_expert44 posted...

I can see where he is coming from for select cases. Where there is mental issues present or the person may be suicidal. It's a huge liability.

so what's he doing for all the other sucidal vets with mental disorders

One thing at a time my man

"drain the puddle!"
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Is there any reason to think this won't fail like the last time he tried this?
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Transgender people have an alarmingly high rate of suicide. Throw in the stress of military service and that's just not a rational thing to subject anyone to.
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Awe, look at him pretend he cares.
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Capn Circus posted...

A military, of any country, should be fully operational and ready to go on a moments notice. No talk of "Oh well ____ is taking his/her new hormone medication and isn't feeling well"

So are people in the military like automatically discharged if they get the flu or break a leg? (They aren't) Why can't someone with a treatable medical condition serve in the military. It is laughably ignorant to act as if basically anyone with any condition can't be fully operational. This isn't 1750 where diarrhea has a good chance to kill you. But I guess we can't buy a few dozen fighter jets that will go to waste if we provide our soldiers with medical care that would create more functional soldiers. But the military has been flipping the bird to its veterans for decades as is, so no real surprise. Maybe they can continue to ignore rape too.
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banned from all military positions? Or just like front line soldiers? If it's just the latter, then I'm fine with that tbqh
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NINExATExSEVEN posted...

ASithLord7 posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

So hypothetical question. Let's say a trans male to female soldier gets captured by the enemy. Knowing what happens to female prisoners of war, do we play it cool and try to negotiate or storm the enemy camp to try and save that soldier asap?

Basically would a trans person be treated 100% the same as their male counterparts?

How is this any different from a cis female soldier

Well for starters a cis female soldier probably won't be on the front line in direct contact with the enemy. A trans person would want to be treated 100% equally to his fellow male soldiers.

So in the case that a trans solider get's captured, do we risk other soldiers lives to save the trans solider asap or do we follow standard procedure as if we're dealing with a cis male soldier and wait it out?

You said mtf genius not ftm
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ASithLord7 posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

ASithLord7 posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

So hypothetical question. Let's say a trans male to female soldier gets captured by the enemy. Knowing what happens to female prisoners of war, do we play it cool and try to negotiate or storm the enemy camp to try and save that soldier asap?

Basically would a trans person be treated 100% the same as their male counterparts?

How is this any different from a cis female soldier

Well for starters a cis female soldier probably won't be on the front line in direct contact with the enemy. A trans person would want to be treated 100% equally to his fellow male soldiers.

So in the case that a trans solider get's captured, do we risk other soldiers lives to save the trans solider asap or do we follow standard procedure as if we're dealing with a cis male soldier and wait it out?

You said mtf genius not ftm

he doesn't actually know what point he's trying to argue besides mindlessly defending trump
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My bad that was a typo. I meant ftm.
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NINExATExSEVEN posted...

ASithLord7 posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

So hypothetical question. Let's say a trans male to female soldier gets captured by the enemy. Knowing what happens to female prisoners of war, do we play it cool and try to negotiate or storm the enemy camp to try and save that soldier asap?

Basically would a trans person be treated 100% the same as their male counterparts?

How is this any different from a cis female soldier

Well for starters a cis female soldier probably won't be on the front line in direct contact with the enemy. A trans person would want to be treated 100% equally to his fellow male soldiers.

So in the case that a trans solider get's captured, do we risk other soldiers lives to save the trans solider asap or do we follow standard procedure as if we're dealing with a cis male soldier and wait it out?

This is a bad hypothetical.

Women are now allowed in combat roles on the front line, and a person whose DEERS gender marker says "Male" is a "Male" in the eyes of the Department of Defense.

Furthermore, there is no preference offered when attempting rescue missions - the driving factor would be mission feasibility, not who specifically is captured (unless it was like the Vice President or something of course).
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hockeybub89 posted...

Capn Circus posted...

A military, of any country, should be fully operational and ready to go on a moments notice. No talk of "Oh well ____ is taking his/her new hormone medication and isn't feeling well"

So are people in the military like automatically discharged if they get the flu or break a leg? (They aren't) Why can't someone with a treatable medical condition serve in the military. It is laughably ignorant to act as if basically anyone with any condition can't be fully operational. This isn't 1750 where diarrhea has a good chance to kill you. But I guess we can't buy a few dozen fighter jets that will go to waste if we provide our soldiers with medical care that would create more functional soldiers. But the military has been flipping the bird to its veterans for decades as is, so no real surprise. Maybe they can continue to ignore rape too.

Actually there is a new policy that says that if you are not fully medically ready for 12 months then you are to be outprocessed from the military, with few exceptions. And the branches do not have to wait for the 12 months to elapse - if the doctor determines you are going to be out of commission for more than 12 months they can theoretically start the process immediately.

So, not as drastic as what you're saying (though apparently a lot of people are NOT medically ready due to dumb shit like flu shots and dental exams), but still far, far stricter than anything that I've seen.
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Hexenherz posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

ASithLord7 posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

So hypothetical question. Let's say a trans male to female soldier gets captured by the enemy. Knowing what happens to female prisoners of war, do we play it cool and try to negotiate or storm the enemy camp to try and save that soldier asap?

Basically would a trans person be treated 100% the same as their male counterparts?

How is this any different from a cis female soldier

Well for starters a cis female soldier probably won't be on the front line in direct contact with the enemy. A trans person would want to be treated 100% equally to his fellow male soldiers.

So in the case that a trans solider get's captured, do we risk other soldiers lives to save the trans solider asap or do we follow standard procedure as if we're dealing with a cis male soldier and wait it out?

This is a bad hypothetical.

Women are now allowed in combat roles on the front line, and a person whose DEERS gender marker says "Male" is a "Male" in the eyes of the Department of Defense.

Furthermore, there is no preference offered when attempting rescue missions - the driving factor would be mission feasibility, not who specifically is captured (unless it was like the Vice President or something of course).

Ok, good answer.
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NINExATExSEVEN posted...

Hexenherz posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

ASithLord7 posted...

NINExATExSEVEN posted...

So hypothetical question. Let's say a trans male to female soldier gets captured by the enemy. Knowing what happens to female prisoners of war, do we play it cool and try to negotiate or storm the enemy camp to try and save that soldier asap?

Basically would a trans person be treated 100% the same as their male counterparts?

How is this any different from a cis female soldier

Well for starters a cis female soldier probably won't be on the front line in direct contact with the enemy. A trans person would want to be treated 100% equally to his fellow male soldiers.

So in the case that a trans solider get's captured, do we risk other soldiers lives to save the trans solider asap or do we follow standard procedure as if we're dealing with a cis male soldier and wait it out?

This is a bad hypothetical.

Women are now allowed in combat roles on the front line, and a person whose DEERS gender marker says "Male" is a "Male" in the eyes of the Department of Defense.

Furthermore, there is no preference offered when attempting rescue missions - the driving factor would be mission feasibility, not who specifically is captured (unless it was like the Vice President or something of course).

Ok, good answer.

Sorry if I come off as a jerk, I'm... having a harder and harder time differentiating who is trying to have a legitimate conversation and who's just trolling for the hell of it.
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cjsdowg posted...

It is funny how Republicans fucking attack the troops. And their supporters are fine with it. But when a black guy takes a knee. These say people cry bloody murder.

Only the problematic ones.

How unpatriotic of Trump.
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