Poll of the Day > I just realized how dumb Iron Man is

(+) Yeah! (+)

He has a electromagnet keeping the metal pieces out of his heart. Why doesn't he use a permanent magnet?? He wouldn't need a freaking nuclear power core that slowly kills him embedded in his chest.

Hell, the whole problem in the second movie is that he was being poisoned by the waste of the reactor. That doesn't even make sense, why is the core discharging anything into his body?
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he fixed himself in the 3rd movie
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Bear posted...

he fixed himself in the 3rd movie

Yeah, by removing the metal, it took him long enough. How many times did he almost die because of it?
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Iron Man is almost constantly drunk. Of course he makes bad decisions. Literally all of Avengers 2 happens because he makes dumb choices. Drunks do that.

Tony Stark's electromagnet was his kryptonite.

I think it's easier to make a more powerful electromagnet than a permanent one, not to mention you can control an electromagnet and not a permanent one.

it doesn't make sense anyway, what's the magnet even doing, "pulling" on the shrapnel? if it's in his heart how did it not already kill him? when he has it removed he's "weakened", but why? because razor sharp shrapnel is carving its way into his heart tissue? I think that's a little worse that just "ooof, I'm weakened, oh but phew now I'm ok because magnet".
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Yellow posted...

Bear posted...

he fixed himself in the 3rd movie

Yeah, by removing the metal, it took him long enough. How many times did he almost die because of it?

he literally needed to be genetically modified to be able to remove it, though, so
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Why was the metal even moving towards his heart to begin with

Wouldnt a magnetic force slowly push the pieces out causing him injury? The whole thing is bananas
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This is what we're going with? Not the fact that the forces his body would be under inside the suit while flying and blasting things would liquify him? We're going with the shrapnel?
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WhiskeyDisk posted...

This is what we're going with? Not the fact that the forces his body would be under inside the suit while flying and blasting things would liquify him? We're going with the shrapnel?

And obviously that. How does his suit keep him from turning into jello when The Hulk swats him out of the air?

I hate to be that guy, but this is why Batman is the "realistic" superhero.
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Sahuagin posted...

it doesn't make sense anyway, what's the magnet even doing, "pulling" on the shrapnel? if it's in his heart how did it not already kill him? when he has it removed he's "weakened", but why? because razor sharp shrapnel is carving its way into his heart tissue? I think that's a little worse that just "ooof, I'm weakened, oh but phew now I'm ok because magnet".

If I had to make up DC's excuse for them, the magnet might alternate to keep the shrapnel in a specific position.

That seems like a lot of work to bypass "taking the shrapnel out".
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Yellow posted...

He has a electromagnet keeping the metal pieces out of his heart. Why doesn't he use a permanent magnet??

Apparently he couldn't magic one up in a cave with a box of scraps.

In that context, it's probably easier to run an electrical current through metal to magnetize it than it is to gain access to a powerful enough natural magnet to do the job.

Besides the fact, if you recall he doesn't necessarily have all that much say in the matter - he's unconscious when the terrorists put the electromagnet in his chest (and power it with a car battery). He essentially changes the power source used to keep it going, but not the basic mechanism by which it works. The implication being that the time it would require him to remove the existing material and replace it with something better would be long enough to potentially kill him, so he's unwilling to even attempt it.

Also sort of the implication of Iron Man 3 - he's spent most of the three movies (and Avengers 1) being too afraid to even allow anyone else an opportunity to put him under and attempt to remove the shrapnel because he's already "solved" the problem (and if you haven't noticed, Tony is absolutely something of a control freak). It isn't until the end of the third movie that he comes to terms with his own issues enough to allow himself to relax enough to have the operation.

That being said, he's lucky they didn't go the route the comics did after he finally had his heart repaired - they eventually had someone shoot him in the spine so he was paralyzed, thus forcing him back into the armor as escapism. Though that might be where they got the idea to cripple Rhodey in the movies.



Sahuagin posted...

it doesn't make sense anyway, what's the magnet even doing, "pulling" on the shrapnel? if it's in his heart how did it not already kill him?

According to the original comic reasoning, it wasn't IN his heart explicitly, but it was near it, and was essentially working its way inwards via the natural movement of the body, which is why he needed the magnet to effectively freeze it in place. But this was also at a time when medical science was far less developed than it is today, so the idea of open heart surgery to remove shrapnel fragments from someone's chest was a less viable alternative with a higher risk of killing the patient, and he had more of a reason not to just have surgery as soon as he got back to the US.

But again, remember, the entire point is that Tony is improvising his own life-support system in a primitive cave with only limited supplies and even more limited equipment, so his solution is going to be inelegant by definition. And Tony's personality is a large part of why he so doggedly relies on that solution even after he's home and could potentially have access to better medical tech and options.

The movie's entire scenario of Tony basically falling over and sort of blacking out from pain when the reactor is removed doesn't really work in the context of the , but it's a fantasy movie so everyone who isn't a pedantic asshole just sort of goes with it because it makes the movie work.

Keep in mind, comics rarely work well when you think about anything for more than 30 seconds, especially medical science. Like trying to explain why Barbara Gordon remained crippled as Batgirl for 20 years while Batman had his spine surgically reconstructed a dozen times. Or how people still die of things like AIDS and Cancer in a universe where Reed Richards should be able to invent a cure over the span of a weekend, in between trips to parallel reality timelines.


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Yellow posted...

WhiskeyDisk posted...

This is what we're going with? Not the fact that the forces his body would be under inside the suit while flying and blasting things would liquify him? We're going with the shrapnel?

And obviously that. How does his suit keep him from turning into jello when The Hulk swats him out of the air?

I hate to be that guy, but this is why Batman is the "realistic" superhero.

His suit is part of his DNA and nano-machines actively disperse the force.
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Where the hell does his body even go when he uses the hulkbuster suit?

Does he just curl up into a ball in the torso???
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

The movie's entire scenario of Tony basically falling over and sort of blacking out from pain when the reactor is removed doesn't really work in the context of the , but it's a fantasy movie so everyone who isn't a pedantic asshole just sort of goes with it because it makes the movie work.

Keep in mind, comics rarely work well when you think about anything for more than 30 seconds, especially medical science.

Reed Richards is useless. One what-if scenario had him and Stark team up and magic NY into utopia... that eventually went straight to hell.

But what I got from the 1st movie wasn't Tony blacking out from pain (the magnet keeps the spurs embedded in the outer muscle tissue of the heart which is probably nonstop pain) but was suffering internal bleeding if the fragments blocked his arteries.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

It isn't until the end of the third movie that he comes to terms with his own issues enough to allow himself to relax enough to have the operation.

that, and he also used extremis to heal him while they did it.
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It's all metaphor.

The shrapnel is letting pots into his heart

The poison is love

The third movie is pretty obvious.
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BigOlePappy posted...

His suit is part of his DNA and nano-machines actively disperse the force.

I guess his DNA occupies a parallel universe where the laws of physics work differently rather than inside his body because you still have to disperse the forces to somewhere.
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He got beat up by a guy with a bionic arm and his friend with a shield that his daddy made.

MCU is real time Greek chorus
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Yellow posted...

WhiskeyDisk posted...

This is what we're going with? Not the fact that the forces his body would be under inside the suit while flying and blasting things would liquify him? We're going with the shrapnel?

And obviously that. How does his suit keep him from turning into jello when The Hulk swats him out of the air?

I hate to be that guy, but this is why Batman is the "realistic" superhero.

batman has bullshit suits of armor too
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PakoPako posted...

Reed Richards is useless. One what-if scenario had him and Stark team up and magic NY into utopia... that eventually went straight to hell.

Reed Richards is actually worse than useless - he's basically a mad scientist supervillain who just barely avoids crossing the line into evil (this is not an uncommon cliche for Marvel - it's been observed multiple times before that Hank Pym often comes across like a mad scientist desperately trying to be good but constantly fucking up because he's far more suited to be a villain than a hero).

Reed's more or less an amoral genius who can't quite connect with the idea of how human emotion works (see also, pretty much every social interaction we've ever seen him have with Sue). Even his initial decision to encourage the Fantastic Four to become heroes was more motivated by his understanding that they would be far less persecuted for their powers (and potentially more able to profit from his inventions) if the public viewed them as heroes rather than potential menaces than it was out of any sincere desire to do good.

It's been explored in the comics before, but it's incredibly easy to postulate an alternate universe where events went slightly differently, and Reed basically just becomes a straight-up villain (whether one with good intentions or just one who doesn't give a fuck about people and who will sacrifice anything in the name of SCIENCE).

Ironically, science villains like Doctor Doom or even Lex Luthor tend to make better heroes when looked at in the right light (and when presented in a variant setting where circumstances don't make them "evil"). Doom's probably done far more good for the people of Latveria than Reed has ever done for the entire world.



Krazy_Kirby posted...

Yellow posted...

I hate to be that guy, but this is why Batman is the "realistic" superhero.

batman has bullshit suits of armor too

Worse than that - Batman's incredibly unrealistic, because it's pretty much impossible to wear anything resembling body armor and still be flexible enough to be one of the best ninjas in the entire world. And constant fighting and injuries sustained every single night without prolonged periods of rest would absolutely leave him crippled within 5 years (see also, the physical state most older football players and wrestlers wind up in, made worse by the fact that Bruce simply cannot psychologically take months off to have corrective surgeries and rehab injuries rather than "playing through the pain").

As much as people tended to dislike the movie (for justifiable reasons), The Dark Knight Rises might be the most realistic version of Batman there's ever been, because we basically see how only a few years or so of being Batman have left him a broken wreck both physically and psychologically. Bruce isn't even 40, and he's in worse shape than most PotDers.

Of course, that realism goes right out the window when he invents a special knee brace that apparently corrects all of his knee problems perfectly enough to allow for more top-level ninja-ing, and later when he gets someone to magic-punch his broken spine back into perfect alignment, but the early version of Bruce is exactly what a "realistic" Batman would wind up being.

And that of course is assuming that someone hadn't shot him in the face or killed him in any of the dozens of other ways a vigilante operating at his level would have realistically died long beforehand.


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Doom's probably done far more good for the people of Latveria than Reed has ever done for the entire world.

Seeing what a good job Netflix did with Fisk, I keep hoping for the tiniest chance Netflix would eventually get around to doing an "I Doom" type series with Doom painted as a sympathetic villian/antihero, but I'm not holding my breath for a number of obvious reasons.
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WhiskeyDisk posted...

BigOlePappy posted...

His suit is part of his DNA and nano-machines actively disperse the force.

I guess his DNA occupies a parallel universe where the laws of physics work differently rather than inside his body because you still have to disperse the forces to somewhere.

That is actually kind of how Nightcrawler's abilities work.
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BigOlePappy posted...

WhiskeyDisk posted...

BigOlePappy posted...

His suit is part of his DNA and nano-machines actively disperse the force.

I guess his DNA occupies a parallel universe where the laws of physics work differently rather than inside his body because you still have to disperse the forces to somewhere.

That is actually kind of how Nightcrawler's abilities work.

Yes but Nightcrawler is a mutant, Tony Stark is just a dude in a suit.
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WhiskeyDisk posted...

Seeing what a good job Netflix did with Fisk, I keep hoping for the tiniest chance Netflix would eventually get around to doing an "I Doom" type series with Doom painted as a sympathetic villian/antihero, but I'm not holding my breath for a number of obvious reasons.

Will almost certainly never happen. Because while Marvel has gotten the Fox rights back (freeing them up to do Fantastic Four-related characters in their shows and movies), Disney has already said they want to start their own streaming service, which means they're going to be pulling all content from Netflix (which means, while Netflix still has Daredevil, Jessica Jones, etc), in the very near future they're not going to.

This is actually a large part of why Netflix has been pushing to do original programming lately. They're fully aware that larger media conglomerates are going to want a piece of the pie, so that once companies like CBS and Disney (which owns ABC) start running their own services, they're going to start pulling all of their content off Netflix to run on their own services instead. NBC/Hulu was just the first real sign of the eventual fragmentation.

They've as much as said that any future Marvel TV content is probably going to be exclusive to Disney's future service (or Disney's cable channels, like Freeform).



BigOlePappy posted...

That is actually kind of how Nightcrawler's abilities work.

Not really. Nightcrawler just reflexively teleports instantaneously through an alternate dimension (similar to how Magik teleports, only faster), because assholes who keep demanding that fantasy-based comic stories somehow conform to all the laws of physics as we currently understand them ruin everything.



WhiskeyDisk posted...

Yes but Nightcrawler is a mutant, Tony Stark is just a dude in a suit.

Yes, but Hank Pym is also just a dude in a suit, and the entire premise of his powers is that he's discovered a way to shunt pure mass into an alternate dimension, allowing him to shrink or grow without violating things like the squarecube law or conservation of mass.

Because again, assholes who keep demanding that fantasy-based comic stories somehow conform to all the laws of physics as we currently understand them ruin everything.

But in other words, it's already established that, in the Marvel universe, it is entirely possible to shunt things like mass/inertia/energy/etc into parallel dimensions without much technological effort, and even "normal" geniuses can find ways to do so without having to be supernaturally empowered or via "mutated" intelligence (ie, something some writers occasionally imply about Reed Richards - that his powers augment his natural genius to some degree, so a Reed who never gained those powers wouldn't necessarily be AS smart as the Reed who did).


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

It's been explored in the comics before, but it's incredibly easy to postulate an alternate universe where events went slightly differently, and Reed basically just becomes a straight-up villain (whether one with good intentions or just one who doesn't give a fuck about people and who will sacrifice anything in the name of SCIENCE).

Ironically, science villains like Doctor Doom or even Lex Luthor tend to make better heroes when looked at in the right light (and when presented in a variant setting where circumstances don't make them "evil"). Doom's probably done far more good for the people of Latveria than Reed has ever done for the entire world.

Sometimes we have to give credit where credit is due -- cut Lex Luthor the damn royalty check as it were -- but sometimes characters like Doom don't do themselves any favors obsessing over things either. One canonical instance, Doom wanted to become more like Richards (though not in those words) by wishing away his guilt. Doom dragged Princess Python (and other super-villains) just so he could have a visual reminder not to be tempted when he wished for the ability to sleep well.

Doing good for Latveria is a zero sum game. The nation is entirely self-sufficient, which means it neither contributes to or is a blight against other nations. And the cost one pays is simply give up conflicting thoughts and willingly be a cog in Doom's nation. Even if you're an older indigenous family, this is now Doom's nation, and you will abide by Doom's rule, show deference to Doom, leave, or be vaporized.

Oddly enough, Reed Richards and Victor Doom would probably make great strides working from within Latveria if they just didn't despite each other. (Richards would be able to ignore researching under a fascist state, unless that state was run by Doom; Doom would benefit from competing with someone close to his equal when he admits that such a thing can be possible.)

This also reminds me of a Mega Man argument:
http://www.themmnetwork.com/blog/2011/05/02/dr-wily-madman-or-savior

I for one, welcome our soulless overlords!

Of course, that realism goes right out the window when he invents a special knee brace that apparently corrects all of his knee problems perfectly enough to allow for more top-level ninja-ing

I thought that was Iron Man armor at that point. "It numbs the pain and turns me into a cyborg!" Bruce Wayne is going to need an exoskeleton or a wheelchair in his 60's.