Current Events > I just watched The Last Jedi. Why did ppl hate it? (Spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Why?
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mostly because it wasn't the movie they had imagined it was gonna be in their head/fan theories.
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People don't like that Luke didn't get a good showing. Then they started nitpicking other stuff.
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Because it sucked.
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People were used to EU Luke who was pretty much Goku levels of OP, and they forgot that in real life Mark Hamill is old.

They also really hate Holdo's hair, and the fact that Ackbar didn't ram the bridge.
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It was really disappointing. Bad pacing, no good characterization, jokes that didn't land, like way too many jokes. Characters made dumb decisions

I didn't hate it. I just don't think it was good and I was really disappointed

I hated the Finn had not agency, the themes were all over the place, too many conveniences, holdo dumb ass plan, Rose dumb ass plan, Poe general dumb assay ect.

_BIueMonk posted...

mostly because it wasn't the movie they had imagined it was gonna be in their head/fan theories.

That is only true if the movie I expected was just good.
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electricbugs2 posted...

People were used to EU Luke who was pretty much Goku levels of OP, and they forgot that in real life Mark Hamill is old.

They also really hate Holdo's hair, and the fact that Ackbar didn't ram the bridge.

It is funny, people have real issues with this movie, and they' are people like you ane Monk just strawman the issues that people have.
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cjsdowg posted...

It is funny, people have real issues with this movie, and there people like you are Monk just strawman the issues that people have.

Again, in English please...
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Because it was a bad movie.

TFA setup many great story lines that TFJ ignored. No progress was made in TLJ aside from the Snoke scene.

Monk?
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They were expecting Snokes's reveal to be Jar Jar Binks.
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muchdran posted...

Monk?

great show.
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GOATTHlEF posted...

Nothing interesting happened.

It was Fury Road in Space without anything interesting.
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It's the most mixed I've felt about any Star Wars movie. It has some of my favourite things from any SW movie (Kylo Ren in general I thought was excellent. The throne room fight scene was great, the shot after Holdo rammed the dreadnaught, and personally I liked most of the stuff with Rey and on Luke's island other than those nun/servant creatures.) But the plot with the resistance vs New Order felt really weak, especially the diversion with Finn and Rose in the casino town. And we still never really got any explanation for how The New Order managed to actually become a thing in the first place, given the ending of ROTJ.

I aldo son't really mind that Snoke and Luke died. Snoke was always less interesting than Ren. Maybe knowing how he got that strong would have been nice. Luke's ending was ok with me. I do wish Leia had died in that space scene though. She really was not essential for the rest of the movie, and now she's in an awkward situation where she will probably die off-screen, or simply not appear in the next movie.
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Btw wtf was that weird cave mirror, it told us nothing
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It was pretty light on action adn could have used a lot more. Other than that a lot of the characters just aren't that interesting or well done to me.
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We'll we learn in IX that Rose and Finn are actually siblins?
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the pacing mostly.

entire sections could have been cut out since they served as astonishingly boring fluff just to give the characters something to do like having finn and new girl rush to casino town.

however, the dumbest movie logic moment by far is when they needed to develop poe as a character with the whole going behind the admiral and mutiny ploy when she simply.could.have.told.him.the.plan in like 10 words:
"we're evacuating to a nearby resistance base in small transports".

the direction of the plot and main characters(that aren't finn and poe) could have gone either way but the movie is just a mess when you're almost begging to get through the incredibly boring parts in order to get to the actual "last jedi" parts of the movie and even those left something to be desired like rey's whole stay on the island.
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The more I think about the movie after, the worse it is.

Honestly, it was pretty bad. Feels like they have no idea where to pull the story at this point. No real direction.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNpayCpXCFM" data-time="
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The new characters were atrocious. The film treated Carrie Fisher like a plot object, but the makers were all defensive about her role after she died. There's fifty jokes in every scene and 49 of them misfires. The casino plotline was horrible and should have been deleted with no trace remaining. The mise en scene of the film is often poor and have weird continuity. Especially the scenes with Phasma and the shit that happens on the rebel boat. The ending with Rose was disgusting in its incomprehensibility and absurdism. The film has no fucking clue what to do with the empire-rebellion conflict. The last film ended with a great rebel victory and now this one spends its entire length going "well fuck what do we do now? Can't have the rebellion just win, I guess we'll just have the empire decimate them slowly while plot happens"

FF_Redux posted...

The more I think about the movie after, the worse it is.

Honestly, it was pretty bad. Feels like they have no idea where to pull the story at this point. No real direction.

I haven't seen it yet but this is the most common thing I hear on both boards and from people in person.

Kinda a bummer.
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_BIueMonk posted...

mostly because it wasn't the movie they had imagined it was gonna be in their head/fan theories.

This, almost completely. There are some minor, valid gripes, and a few scenes that could have been reworked a bit, but nothing worth even a modicum of the bullshit people throw at it. It was a very enjoyable movie, and a solid Star Wars entry.

I also find the Luke gripe hilariously ridiculous. It's the same as the people who said, "the sequels suck because it makes the OT mean nothing since another war popped up". Like they want a living breathing universe that just stops when they are done with it. Nothing interesting is ever supposed to happen again. The Luke complaints are exactly the same. According to them, he isn't supposed to have had any meaningful life events in the last 30 years. He isn't even supposed to have changed his mind or ideas about anything. He was literally supposed to show up, be Luke from RotJ, and save the day.

The irony is that if they had got that, they would have just complained that it was boring and predictable.

Dash_Harber posted...

This, almost completely. There are some minor, valid gripes, and a few scenes that could have been reworked a bit, but nothing worth even a modicum of the bullshit people throw at it. It was a very enjoyable movie, and a solid Star Wars entry.

It's weird how intolerant people are of negative opinions of things they like.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

This, almost completely. There are some minor, valid gripes, and a few scenes that could have been reworked a bit, but nothing worth even a modicum of the bullshit people throw at it. It was a very enjoyable movie, and a solid Star Wars entry.

It's weird how intolerant people are of negative opinions of things they like.

There is a huge difference between a valid criticism and people just hating on something because it's popular. Like I said, there are some valid complaints. For example, the space Casino was a weird tone and probably should have been reworked.

Most of the really angry complaints I heard can basically be summed up as; "it didn't play out in the way I wanted it to, so it sucks". For example, complaining about Luke's reluctance is stupid because it literally spells the entire thing out in the movie. Complaining about Phasma not doing anything is ridiculous because the same people hold up Boba Fett as some sort of model (since her playing the exact same role and ending almost the same).

I hear a lot of hate about the casino, but that specific bit was totally cool with me. It was the arrest/escape/stampede bit that messed it up for me.
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NibeIungsnarf posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

This, almost completely. There are some minor, valid gripes, and a few scenes that could have been reworked a bit, but nothing worth even a modicum of the bullshit people throw at it. It was a very enjoyable movie, and a solid Star Wars entry.

It's weird how intolerant people are of negative opinions of things they like.

yea. it's like, damn ppl are putting actual reasons and critiques in their posts itt only for guys like dash to hand wave it away and take away their credible opinions. that's so fucked up

Too long, boring
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FrenchCrunch posted...

NibeIungsnarf posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

This, almost completely. There are some minor, valid gripes, and a few scenes that could have been reworked a bit, but nothing worth even a modicum of the bullshit people throw at it. It was a very enjoyable movie, and a solid Star Wars entry.

It's weird how intolerant people are of negative opinions of things they like.

yea. it's like, damn ppl are putting actual reasons and critiques in their posts itt only for guys like dash to hand wave it away and take away their credible opinions. that's so fucked up

It's a new thing i've noticed. Also happens with new game releases. You could have the most detailed posts about why you didn't like FF15 on its release and everyone on the board would tell you to leave if you're a hater.

Also for some reason people are pissed that the Force can do more than it did in the past.
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I didn't hate it but it had some problems.

1. Leia. Just, in general. Why choose to have to kill the character off offscreen between installments when you already had a perfectly good death scene? She doesn't even do anything after that that someone else couldn't have done, except go "ha I have Force powers now" and get kissed by Luke in order to generate a plot hole. The one time somebody goes "hey Leia do something" she literally says "don't look at me!"

2. Rose and Finn. Grr I'm gonna tase you for running away. Hey you're awake. Let's run away. Ooo fancy gambling, let's look through binoculars while our friends die. Stop saving what you love so I can tell you to save what you love! The line was fine, really, but it should have been delivered after Finn got shot down and Rose left the assault on the cannon to check on him and he's like "forget me stop da cannon!"

3. The premise. Episode 4, giant planet killer weapon. Episode 5, friends have been captured. Episode 8, we're running out of gas!

4. The title drop. So Luke and Yoda had this cool thing where Luke is angry and threatens to symbolically destroy the Jedi Order and then Yoda calls his bluff and does it for him, which is a cool scene and all but then Luke immediately forgets this and declares Rey a Jedi.

5. Bombers dropping bombs in space.

6. The stupid birds that hung out with Chewie the whole time.

That's all I can think of right now.

Ah, remembered one more.

7. They spend the whole movie arguing about whether they should abandon ship or jump to lightspeed, and in the end, everyone does the opposite of what they wanted to do.
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EpicKingdom_ posted...

TFA setup many great story lines that TFJ ignored. No progress was made in TLJ aside from the Snoke scene.

I like to think it's because rheysaving all this for episode 9. In other words, that 8 was just filler becauae they don't have three movies' worth of stoey to tell.
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it was a shitty paint by numbers disney film. tons of bad 4th wall breaking jokes, terrible dialogue (the throne room scene felt like it was written by Tommy Wiseau), poor characterization, a plot that felt largely pointless, and tons of dopey moral themes and platitudes crammed into the movie and shoved in the face of the viewer in an attempt to give the movie some heart.

from a star wars fan perspective it's also bad because it pretty much dumps in the face of all the fans by not really providing any interesting things to build upon and by continuing the trend of the first star wars movie to not bother doing any universe building.

i've seen all the new disney star wars movies and there's been basically nothing added to the lore or star wars canon other than a few throwaway planets or whatever. the scope is just not there. for all their faults, at least the prequel movies were ambitious with new aliens, wars, politics, jedi lore, etc. besides surface level stuff like lightsabers and x-wings, the disney movies barely feel like star wars imo
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A majority of the movie was a slow "space chase" that led to an anticlimactic battle of hologram luke who then dies vs. kylo

which kinda defeats a chunk of TFA because that movie was like all about finding luke, IIRC
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Space Witch Leia
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It killed most fan theories
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The story isn't going anywhere except right back to where we were at the end of RotJ.
-Rey is tasked with training a new generation of Force users
-Big Bad is either dead or converted
-First Order is defeated, but not really
-Republic has to rebuild from the ashes of war.
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PoopPotato posted...

That's the story in all Star Wars though. KOTOR was that story...twice, and people adore those games.
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PoopPotato posted...

The story isn't going anywhere except right back to where we were at the end of RotJ.
-Rey is tasked with training a new generation of Force users
-Big Bad is either dead or converted
-First Order is defeated, but not really
-Republic has to rebuild from the ashes of war.

Except Kylo Ren is still alive.
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No, I mean it's being set up to end exactly like RotJ.
Rey has the books and is the last "Jedi" , she will attempt to save Ren, FO is destroyed in a massive battle, celebration, Force Ghosts of Luke and Yoda, credits.
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A few improvements I would have made:

Cut the entire subplot on the casino planet. It was goofy, pace killing, and disrupted the tone too much. If you still need the subplot, then have them infiltrate an imperial base or ship. Also, make Benicio Del Toro the codebreaker they were going after and not the other asshole who was mentioned for no reason.

Make the rebels' escape from the FO have more urgency. Them lazily floating through space was lame.

Obviously no way to foresee Carrie Fischer dying, but her sacrificing herself by ramming the ship would have been much better, and make it a situation in which there was no other way for the rebels to escape Downside would be her not "reuniting" with Luke via projection.

Killing Smoke and the throne room scene were both brilliant. But they completely squandered the opportunity to do something narratively powerful to set up for episode 9. They should have had Rey agree to join Kylo after his compelling case for going to the dark side, and episode 9 would be her going so far into the dark side that Kylo becomes wary of the monster he created and must then defeat her or save her. This would be redemption for them both and a lot better than Rey ultimately winning Kylo to the light side. It was even perfectly set up from when Luke tells her she went immediately to the Dark Side on the island. And RJ fucked it up. I would have forgiven all else if this plot point was allowed to materialize the way it should have, then episode 9 would be compelling as shit. Kylo staying Kylo and Rey staying Rey completely negated the incredible throne room scene as nothing changed for either characters' situation other than Kylo taking over the First Order. That scene should have been cataclysmic for the narrative but the conflict is literally the same as it was before. God damn it I am frustrated just talking about it.

it was made by a different director who did not respect what Force Awakens did. the Force Awakens director left him notes for the story and he ripped them up and did his own thing. entire plot threads are abandoned or destroyed and the story does a 180 and goes in a direction the first director didn't intend.

Zikten posted...

it was made by a different director who did not respect what Force Awakens did. the Force Awakens director left him notes for the story and he ripped them up and did his own thing. entire plot threads are abandoned or destroyed and the story does a 180 and goes in a direction the first director didn't intend.

Which threads did you think were abandoned?

Snoke was the main one, but I still think that they can fix it in the next movie. Say that it was a clone or something. he didn't really die. and move on.

Zikten posted...

Snoke was the main one, but I still think that they can fix it in the next movie. Say that it was a clone or something. he didn't really die. and move on.

Disagree wholeheartedly.

Doing what they did to Snoke was a perfect subversion to set it apart from the OT, it's just too bad the squandered it by having the conflict remain literally exactly the same after that scene.