Current Events > The armed security guard in Parkland stayed outside during the shooting

(+) Yeah! (+)

Offworlder1 posted...

@DragonGirlYuki

As an armed guard it is his DUTY to keep the place safe, he is not a police officer but he is armed with a fucking gun to keep the place safe from an armed attacker. His fucking job is to offer armed resistance against a shooter and not only did he fail he failed like a fucking coward.

Yes a rifle has more range and accuracy but a pistol can beat a rifle if he is smart in how he approaches the situation, it's all about tactics and how to ambush the enemy. At my job if I can't man the fuck up and use my gun when shit goes down I have literally failed at doing the job asked of me and have no business in that field. This guard had no business being armed if he was too much of a fucking pussy ass bitch boy coward to offer resistance of any kind against the shooter.

This guard failed and got more people killed, at the least he should have drawn the guy's fire until back up arrived or distracted him with exchanging gun fire.

What does your training suggest if you are in a situation where you are outgunned? (Not being confrontational, just curious). Is retreat a viable tactic?
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Navy SEALs on every campus
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CarlGrimes posted...

Why are you calling him a security guard? He was the schools resource officer, and last I knew they are actual police officers, not guards.

This is true too. Resource officers are actual cops and not security guards which makes it worse

The saying about the way to stop a bad guy with a gun features a good guy with a gun rather than a neutral guy with a gun.
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pretty much why i carry. dont put your faith in the police or the government to be there for you.
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Axiom posted...

This is true too. Resource officers are actual cops and not security guards which makes it worse

No, not really.

Besides the fact of cops not being legally obligated to intervene in a situation like this, as pointed out earlier in the topic.

Cop tactics usually fall into what was stated, but deleted, in this topic: He might've been waiting for overwhelming force to come into play. Does it excuse his piece of shitness? No not really but that might have been what his training said to do.
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wackyteen posted...

Cop tactics usually fall into what was stated, but deleted, in this topic: He might've been waiting for overwhelming force to come into play. Does it excuse his piece of s***ness? No not really but that might have been what his training said to do.

Yeah isn't this the response of most officers? Call and wait for backup?
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wackyteen posted...

Cop tactics usually fall into what was stated, but deleted, in this topic: He might've been waiting for overwhelming force to come into play. Does it excuse his piece of shitness? No not really but that might have been what his training said to do.

Judging by what the sheriff said and the reaction in the department, I highly doubt it.
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Cop tactics usually fall into what was stated, but deleted, in this topic: He might've been waiting for overwhelming force to come into play. Does it excuse his piece of s***ness? No not really but that might have been what his training said to do.

This is kinda what I had in mind. Wait for backup when dealing in a situation where he is at a disadvantage.
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

Offworlder1 posted...

@DragonGirlYuki

As an armed guard it is his DUTY to keep the place safe, he is not a police officer but he is armed with a fucking gun to keep the place safe from an armed attacker. His fucking job is to offer armed resistance against a shooter and not only did he fail he failed like a fucking coward.

Yes a rifle has more range and accuracy but a pistol can beat a rifle if he is smart in how he approaches the situation, it's all about tactics and how to ambush the enemy. At my job if I can't man the fuck up and use my gun when shit goes down I have literally failed at doing the job asked of me and have no business in that field. This guard had no business being armed if he was too much of a fucking pussy ass bitch boy coward to offer resistance of any kind against the shooter.

This guard failed and got more people killed, at the least he should have drawn the guy's fire until back up arrived or distracted him with exchanging gun fire.

What does your training suggest if you are in a situation where you are outgunned? (Not being confrontational, just curious). Is retreat a viable tactic?

He wasn't outgunned
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@DragonGirlYuki

If it were me in that situation I would have gone around to find another door to catch the guy off guard, or if I heard kids screaming would head in and be ready to shoot the shooter as soon as I see him. My job is to try stopping the asshole not being a coward ass bitch, could I die ? yes but that is a risk you take being a cop or armed guard. If I was not ready for life threatening danger I would have taken an office job, or been in a career where I would not be putting my life in danger each day.

If a person is not willing to deal with that then they have no business in that field, I have accepted I might not go home one day but if I die on the job it will be going out helping someone, trying to stop some nutcase, or keeping someone focused on me and not the unarmed.

Better to die fighting then being a fucking coward like the guy who fucked up and got others killed, my gun and my armor/vest/plate carrier are my offense and defense.
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lol at all the armchair lam nelsons ITT, I can't judge this man, security is not nor should they ever be expected to stop a shooting as it happens, they are to observe and report, especially at the salary they're paid
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tremain07 posted...

lol at all the armchair lam nelsons ITT, I can't judge this man, security is not nor should they ever be expected to stop a shooting as it happens, they are to observe and report, especially at the salary they're paid

He was not security, he was a POLICE OFFICER.
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CarlGrimes posted...

tremain07 posted...

lol at all the armchair lam nelsons ITT, I can't judge this man, security is not nor should they ever be expected to stop a shooting as it happens, they are to observe and report, especially at the salary they're paid

He was not security, he was a POLICE OFFICER.

Cops aren't obligated to risk their lives for other people.
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To Serve and Protect has other meanings I guess...
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A_Good_Boy posted...

CarlGrimes posted...

tremain07 posted...

lol at all the armchair lam nelsons ITT, I can't judge this man, security is not nor should they ever be expected to stop a shooting as it happens, they are to observe and report, especially at the salary they're paid

He was not security, he was a POLICE OFFICER.

Cops aren't obligated to risk their lives for other people.

Than their motto should not be To Protect and Serve.
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A_Good_Boy posted...

Cops aren't obligated to risk their lives for other people.

looking at the available pictures of Broward County cop cars, their cars don't even say Serve and Protect

<_<
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A_Good_Boy posted...

CarlGrimes posted...

tremain07 posted...

lol at all the armchair lam nelsons ITT, I can't judge this man, security is not nor should they ever be expected to stop a shooting as it happens, they are to observe and report, especially at the salary they're paid

He was not security, he was a POLICE OFFICER.

Cops aren't obligated to risk their lives for other people.

Lmaooooo
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@CarlGrimes

Their motto is not "to protect and serve" anymore it's now "fairness, integrity, " and I think professionalism.
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FrisbeeDude posted...

Lmaooooo

but it's true
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wackyteen posted...

FrisbeeDude posted...

Lmaooooo

but it's true

"To protect and serve...when we feel like it"
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FrisbeeDude posted...

wackyteen posted...

FrisbeeDude posted...

Lmaooooo

but it's true

"To protect and serve...when we feel like it"

Yes. What's the issue here?
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FrisbeeDude posted...

"To protect and serve...when we feel like it"

Offworlder1 posted...

Their motto is not "to protect and serve" anymore

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hmmm
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Fun fact about security guards since I do security work part-time. 99% of contracts only call for them as deterrents, to be there as a presence. The actual duties for them will almost never call for them to actually put themselves in danger to stop something bad from happening. Among my own duties, this basically means that during weekend shifts I need to make sure there's a log of who is in the building, so that if anything bad happens (fire, gas leak, shooter, massive earthquake, etc.) I can have a list for emergency personnel to be aware of potentially being in the building. I'm not contractually required or even obligated to go floor by floor or to the listed floors and check for anyone. That's not my duty.

The number one thing stressed in my certification classes were basically that we never have to do anything not in our site contract (and that's especially important considering how lawsuits against us, our company and the site work). And the caveat being that if we DO end up in a situation like the shooting? That we only act if we can't live with ourselves should we stand by. But generally? It's preferable that we help track who is exiting the building and help calm them down given our leadership role.

Myself? I do unarmed work. I only will ever physically intervene if I'm 99% certain I can detain the person without more than mild risk to my physical well being. Otherwise, I'm just there to observe and report to the appropriate people. In most cases that being the authorities and my supervisor later, and the building management after that.

So there's a 99% chance that the guard did his job.

If you want somebody who is contractually obligated to intervene, you'd need a police officer.
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gunplagirl posted...

If you want somebody who is contractually obligated to intervene, you'd need a police officer.

About that...
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Yes, lets further destroy this mans life because he was as scared as anyone else would be. He had no lawful duty to put himself in danger, and treating him like an aberration because he didnt run in there like Rambo like you wouldve totally done is pathetic
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A_Good_Boy posted...

gunplagirl posted...

If you want somebody who is contractually obligated to intervene, you'd need a police officer.

About that...

"Intervene" has about a dozen different levels. Breaking up two fighting students is the kind that they are contractually obligated to address. Keep in mind that "contractually obligated" itself also has several degrees and only at certain levels is there ever a requirement for them to act upon those obligations.

But hey. Somebody else already posted the legal cases.

Basically? Cops aren't there for you as I've said forever. And when they are, it's because they're there. For you. As in, an untoward way that bodes ill.
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Dark_Spiret posted...

pretty much why i carry. dont put your faith in the police or the government to be there for you.

That is a good point, which I think most people will ignore or fail to appreciate. I honestly dont mind living in a ban-all-guns society, but no anti-gun voter has ever been able to guarantee that they can reasonably protect my life and my familys lives.

With all the protests and scandals that have happened in recent years, we dont even trust the police and FBI to do their jobs right and with our best interests in mind, yet somehow Im supposed to trust them to show up in time to stop an active shooter, even though that never happens because they only arrive at the crime scene when dozens of people are already dead. Now we have an incident with an officer who did not even try to protect students and staff. This does not help the anti-gun argument. Its the opposite of that.
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Offworlder1 posted...

Yes a rifle has more range and accuracy but a pistol can beat a rifle if he is smart in how he approaches the situation, it's all about tactics and how to ambush the enemy.

How the hell is he supposed to approach a shooter in long hallways? Sure he might have been able to prevent some deaths if he was lucky but the odds were against him and he knew it. He was alone and who knows if getting involved would have gotten even more people killed. I don't blame him at all.
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That is one type of security guard and gunplagirl is correct in what they described on how some companies want a guard to act, other places treat a guard more like a police officer in some ways like my company and what I do. It varies from state to state, company to company as some places do not want to deal with the hassle of the paperwork, and insurance needed when guards are meant to have a more "hands on, active force" role.
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gunplagirl posted...

Fun fact about security guards since I do security work part-time. 99% of contracts only call for them as deterrents, to be there as a presence. The actual duties for them will almost never call for them to actually put themselves in danger to stop something bad from happening. Among my own duties, this basically means that during weekend shifts I need to make sure there's a log of who is in the building, so that if anything bad happens (fire, gas leak, shooter, massive earthquake, etc.) I can have a list for emergency personnel to be aware of potentially being in the building. I'm not contractually required or even obligated to go floor by floor or to the listed floors and check for anyone. That's not my duty.

The number one thing stressed in my certification classes were basically that we never have to do anything not in our site contract (and that's especially important considering how lawsuits against us, our company and the site work). And the caveat being that if we DO end up in a situation like the shooting? That we only act if we can't live with ourselves should we stand by. But generally? It's preferable that we help track who is exiting the building and help calm them down given our leadership role.

Myself? I do unarmed work. I only will ever physically intervene if I'm 99% certain I can detain the person without more than mild risk to my physical well being. Otherwise, I'm just there to observe and report to the appropriate people. In most cases that being the authorities and my supervisor later, and the building management after that.

So there's a 99% chance that the guard did his job.

If you want somebody who is contractually obligated to intervene, you'd need a police officer.

Again, he was not a security guard, he was a student resource officer and an active police officer.
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@MelzezDoor

Schools often have multiple places of entry, like I said before he could run and look for a side door so he could have the drop on the shooter, it's all about how a person approaches the situation.

At the courthouse I work at some days there are multiple places you can get in, if a shooter came in through the front door I could easily ambush the person using a side door or coming up around from the holding cells if I was not already at the front of the building fighting back.

The guard failed and deserves to be insulted for doing NOTHING at all.
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tremain07 posted...

lol at all the armchair lam nelsons ITT, I can't judge this man, security is not nor should they ever be expected to stop a shooting as it happens, they are to observe and report, especially at the salary they're paid

Maybe you should read the topic or do some research about the topic before typing some incorrect crap
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While I obviously think he should have been in there, I fee like having two officers would make things much more effective. A guy going in alone has no backup or anyone to communicate tactics with or plan anything in there.

In this situation though that one kid that died holding a door open for people was obviously vulnerable for a while letting people through and if the officer was there he might have been able to defend him
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Offworlder1 posted...

Schools often have multiple places of entry, like I said before he could run and look for a side door so he could have the drop on the shooter, it's all about how a person approaches the situation.

At the courthouse I work at some days there are multiple places you can get in, if a shooter came in through the front door I could easily ambush the person using a side door or coming up around from the holding cells if I was not already at the front of the building fighting back.

The guard failed and deserves to be insulted for doing NOTHING at all.

Now we know it was only one shooter. At the time of it he didn't so there's no way to be confident any plan would smoothly work. There are probably other possibilities I can't even think of now. It's not as simple as gun vs. gun. Things can really go sideways without a tight mutli person operation. Same applies for something as "simple" as stalling the shooter.
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EnragedSlith posted...

Yes, lets further destroy this mans life because he was as scared as anyone else would be. He had no lawful duty to put himself in danger, and treating him like an aberration because he didnt run in there like Rambo like you wouldve totally done is pathetic

Man fuck that piece of shit
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

Stewman_Magoo posted...

Wait he didn't even try to take him down?

And THIS is the solution they're proposing!?

Explain why everyone should have a gun again?

Because everyone is John Wayne.

Even a fucking armed security guard did nothing. Imagine a panicky staff of 50 teachers all having weapons.

its amazing that moron NRA members and republicans don't understand this.

literally people running this country don't get what we just discovered on a game message board....terrifying
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EnragedSlith posted...

Yes, lets further destroy this mans life because he was as scared as anyone else would be. He had no lawful duty to put himself in danger, and treating him like an aberration because he didnt run in there like Rambo like you wouldve totally done is pathetic

Even the fucking head of the police there said that he's disappointed, and that the man should have gone in and engaged the shooter.

Forget about legal justification. How can you live with yourself knowing you stood idly by while children were getting massacred? How does your instinct to protect not kick in, especially when you're an armed police officer with the duty to protect those kids?

It's called fight or flight. There's no instinct to protect other people's kids.
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A_Good_Boy posted...

It's called fight or flight. There's no instinct to protect other people's kids.

You're a trained cop. Kids are getting killed. And you stand idly by.

Pathetic.

lww99 posted...

It's hard to run in to active gunfire for $12/hr.

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fyi there was also one armed security club at that orlando nightclub who exchanged some gunfire with the shooter then waited outside iirc. This is the first i've heard of them even having an armed security guard at parkland

I wouldn't expect any police officer to proceed alone into an active shooter situation. They are trained not to do that. And no, it isn't an SRO's job to throw himself into the line of fire.
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Was it some old guy basically there for show or to yell at vandals?
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this security guard is absolute scum if he knew this was going down and stayed outside
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Offworlder1 posted...

@DragonGirlYuki

As an armed guard it is his DUTY to keep the place safe, he is not a police officer but he is armed with a fucking gun to keep the place safe from an armed attacker. His fucking job is to offer armed resistance against a shooter and not only did he fail he failed like a fucking coward.

Yes a rifle has more range and accuracy but a pistol can beat a rifle if he is smart in how he approaches the situation, it's all about tactics and how to ambush the enemy. At my job if I can't man the fuck up and use my gun when shit goes down I have literally failed at doing the job asked of me and have no business in that field. This guard had no business being armed if he was too much of a fucking pussy ass bitch boy coward to offer resistance of any kind against the shooter.

This guard failed and got more people killed, at the least he should have drawn the guy's fire until back up arrived or distracted him with exchanging gun fire.

Stop acting like you know what you are talking about when you don't. Sure the guy failed to do his job and resulted in needless deaths. But unless you have the balls to do what he couldn't do, you shouldn't be chastising him.
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Wait, I thought blue lives matter?
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DoctorPiranha3 posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

It's called fight or flight. There's no instinct to protect other people's kids.

You're a trained cop. Kids are getting killed. And you stand idly by.

Pathetic.

Cops are trained to prioritize their own well-being over others. Why else do you think they shoot people for twitching?
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A_Good_Boy posted...

It's called fight or flight. There's no instinct to protect other people's kids.

Prime example why ill never have an honest discussion with u again
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