Current Events > Why Men Are The New College Minority

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/why-men-are-the-new-college-minority/536103/

Males are enrolling in higher education at alarmingly low rates, and some colleges are working hard to reverse the trend.

Where men once went to college in proportions far higher than women58 percent to 42 percent as recently as the 1970sthe ratio has now almost exactly reversed.

This fall, women will comprise more than 56 percent of students on campuses nationwide, according to the U.S. Department of Education. Some 2.2 million fewer men than women will be enrolled in college this year. And the trend shows no sign of abating. By 2026, the department estimates, 57 percent of college students will be women.

The anti-school, anti-education sentiment in boys has roots in kindergarten, when theyre slower to learn to read than girls, said Jim Shelley, the manager of the Mens Resource Center at Lakeland Community College in Ohio. Girls at the primary and secondary level worldwide far outperform boys in reading, according to the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development.

That disparity continues until, by eighth or ninth grade, boys have lost interest, Shelley said.

Meanwhile, boys in many American communities dont see male role models who have been to college and succeeded, said Keith Bullock at Kentuckys Berea College (56 percent female). Bullock is the coordinator of programs to support male students, many of them from Appalachia. They dont have those examples of doctors and lawyers and professionals
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Men who do enroll in college, at whatever age, are more likely than women to drop out, and they graduate at lower rates, the Education Department reports. Thats one thing universities and colleges can address directly, but generally dont, Shelley said.

Through 21 years running one of the few campus support centers exclusively for men, he said, Ive thought it can only get better. But it just has gone nowhere. Not only are there not programs like ours that are supportive of male students, but at most college campuses the attitude is that men are the problem. Ive had male students tell me that their first week in college they were made to feel like potential rapists.

Added Maloney: Theres a lot of attention on empowering girls. Im not saying theres anything wrong with that, but males are the ones in crisis in education.

Jackson thinks theres a surprising racial component. Theres not much work being done to encourage boys to go to college, he said, because not all of those boys are from racial and ethnic minorities society regards as disadvantaged. A lot of them are white.

Its a tough discussion to have and a hard pill to swallow when you have to start the conversation with, White males are not doing as well as one might historically think, he said. Were uncomfortable as a nation having a discussion that includes white males as a part of a group that is having limited success.
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Maybe its because men are IDOTS. if you're a man, you should consider that you aren't where you want to be because you're an IDOT.
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LIBERALS!

caps
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education is anti-male. boys learn differently and are not catered to, standard education is girl-centric.
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Drpooplol posted...

IDOTS

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FLUFFYGERM posted...

The anti-school, anti-education sentiment in boys has roots in kindergarten, when theyre slower to learn to read than girls, said Jim Shelley, the manager of the Mens Resource Center at Lakeland Community College in Ohio. Girls at the primary and secondary level worldwide far outperform boys in reading, according to the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development.

I feel like this is a huge problem in teens and adult men as well. There has been a huge surge in the anti-intellectual movement which has taken to calling higher education "liberal indoctrination centers"

"what are you talking about, im not abrasive!!!!!111" - Giant_Aspirin just a couple weeks ago
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KILBOTz posted...

education is anti-male. boys learn differently and are not catered to, standard education is girl-centric.

lol
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always relevant to this subject:

http://people.terry.uga.edu/cornwl/research/cmvp.genderdiffs.pdf

Boys who perform equally as well as girls on reading, math and science tests are graded less favorably by their teachers

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So the argument here is that males can't read by grade 8/9?
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Axiom posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

The anti-school, anti-education sentiment in boys has roots in kindergarten, when theyre slower to learn to read than girls, said Jim Shelley, the manager of the Mens Resource Center at Lakeland Community College in Ohio. Girls at the primary and secondary level worldwide far outperform boys in reading, according to the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development.

I feel like this is a huge problem in teens and adult men as well. There has been a huge surge in the anti-intellectual movement which has taken to calling higher education "liberal indoctrination centers"

Which is even more funny when someone majors in something like STEM. You have a couple of GEs with a professor who has a point of view. Imagine being so mentally weak if youre conservative/liberal that you cant handle that.

Axiom posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

The anti-school, anti-education sentiment in boys has roots in kindergarten, when theyre slower to learn to read than girls, said Jim Shelley, the manager of the Mens Resource Center at Lakeland Community College in Ohio. Girls at the primary and secondary level worldwide far outperform boys in reading, according to the Organization of Economic Cooperation and .

I feel like this is a huge problem in teens and adult men as well. There has been a huge surge in the anti-intellectual movement which has taken to calling higher education "liberal indoctrination centers"

I think the bigger issue is that girls are given special treatment and empowered, whereas the narrative excludes boys. It is why boys are abandoned by the system from a young age. The unfortunate reality is that saying this gets you labeled an "MRA" by the extremly radical feminists out there, so the conversation is only ever about empowering women.
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REMercsChamp posted...

So the argument here is that males can't read by grade 8/9?

You figured it out. Were you a co-author for that research? I'm impressed.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

"what are you talking about, im not abrasive!!!!!111" - Giant_Aspirin just a couple weeks ago

Well you obviously have an agenda by bolding specific parts soooo

FLUFFYGERM posted...

"what are you talking about, im not abrasive!!!!!111" - Giant_Aspirin just a couple weeks ago

you have a way of bringing out the best in me, what can i say. and we all know precisely why you posted this -- to shit on liberals. that's why you bolded the parts you did.

in earnest though, responding to shit with more shit only brews shit and i shouldn't do it.
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KILBOTz posted...

education is anti-male. boys learn differently and are not catered to, standard education is girl-centric.

Absolutely right as usual.

Darkman124 posted...

always relevant to this subject:

http://people.terry.uga.edu/cornwl/research/cmvp.genderdiffs.pdf

Boys who perform equally as well as girls on reading, math and science tests are graded less favorably by their teachers

It is because the system as a whole is anti-male, and often times anti white male specifically.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Axiom posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

The anti-school, anti-education sentiment in boys has roots in kindergarten, when theyre slower to learn to read than girls, said Jim Shelley, the manager of the Mens Resource Center at Lakeland Community College in Ohio. Girls at the primary and secondary level worldwide far outperform boys in reading, according to the Organization of Economic Cooperation and .

I feel like this is a huge problem in teens and adult men as well. There has been a huge surge in the anti-intellectual movement which has taken to calling higher education "liberal indoctrination centers"

I think the bigger issue is that girls are given special treatment and empowered, whereas the narrative excludes boys. It is why boys are abandoned by the system from a young age. The unfortunate reality is that saying this gets you labeled an "MRA" by the extremly radical feminists out there, so the conversation is only ever about empowering women.

Proof of this?

Giant_Aspirin posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

"what are you talking about, im not abrasive!!!!!111" - Giant_Aspirin just a couple weeks ago

you have a way of bringing out the best in me, what can i say. and we all know that's precisely why you posted this -- to shit on liberals.

in earnest though, responding to shit with more shit only brews shit and i shouldn't do it.

Please throw your mind reading tech into the garbage because it isn't working.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

"what are you talking about, im not abrasive!!!!!111" - Giant_Aspirin just a couple weeks ago

you have a way of bringing out the best in me, what can i say. and we all know that's precisely why you posted this -- to shit on liberals.

in earnest though, responding to shit with more shit only brews shit and i shouldn't do it.

Please throw your mind reading tech into the garbage because it isn't working.

you mean you didn't bold those parts because you have an issue with "leftists" and you don't blame "the left" for shaping education in a way that (you believe) is biased against white males? very interesting.

if you can, with absolutely sincerity, claim that this was not partisan in nature then i will apologize. but be honest with yourself.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

It is because the system as a whole is anti-male, and often times anti white male specifically.

i think the study is worth a read

it's not exactly that it's anti-male, but anti- traits that are intrinsic to male psychology, socialization, and maturation

boys get subjectively graded early on in school and are punished on what they're led to believe are objective assessments, for being more disruptive in class than girls are. nobody is saying "here is the participation part of your score, see how you being a little prick caused your grade to go down?" they're saying "you got a B on this assessment, she got an A."

over time a lot of boys just decide they'll never be good at school and tune out, even though they were certainly capable. the subjective grading system, and the way teachers punish them for being annoying little pissant children, creates a system where they're not learning "I was punished for X" but rather "sometimes I am punished. there is no reason, it just happens."

Much like training a dog, training children should have clear connections between cause and effect.

darkman does not like children.
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

"what are you talking about, im not abrasive!!!!!111" - Giant_Aspirin just a couple weeks ago

you have a way of bringing out the best in me, what can i say. and we all know that's precisely why you posted this -- to shit on liberals.

in earnest though, responding to shit with more shit only brews shit and i shouldn't do it.

Please throw your mind reading tech into the garbage because it isn't working.

you mean you didn't bold those parts because you have an issue with "leftists" and you don't blame "the left" for shaping education in a way that (you believe) is biased against white males? very interesting.

if you can, with absolutely sincerity, claim that this was not partisan in nature then i will apologize. but be honest with yourself.

I bolded the parts that were of extra interest to me because they prove that the common narrative is horse shit. You can be a liberal and agree with me on this, so the notion that this has something do with liberals rather than the farthest left radicals is just paranoia.
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Yeah there is going to be backlash against women in the future. That pendulum is always swinging.
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CruelBuffalo posted...

Proof of this?

i posted proof although it isnt that girls are given special positive treatment, nor that it's given because of gender, but rather that boys are given special negative treatment because they behave in ways that boys tend to behave
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

"what are you talking about, im not abrasive!!!!!111" - Giant_Aspirin just a couple weeks ago

you have a way of bringing out the best in me, what can i say. and we all know that's precisely why you posted this -- to shit on liberals.

in earnest though, responding to shit with more shit only brews shit and i shouldn't do it.

Please throw your mind reading tech into the garbage because it isn't working.

you mean you didn't bold those parts because you have an issue with "leftists" and you don't blame "the left" for shaping education in a way that (you believe) is biased against white males? very interesting.

if you can, with absolutely sincerity, claim that this was not partisan in nature then i will apologize. but be honest with yourself.

I bolded the parts that were of extra interest to me because they prove that the common narrative is horse shit. You can be a liberal and agree with me on this, so the notion that this has something do with liberals rather than the farthest left radicals is just paranoia.

then i apologize for assuming you were making a topic to bitch about leftists
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this thread is a place we can mostly all find common ground
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Darkman124 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

It is because the system as a whole is anti-male, and often times anti white male specifically.

i think the study is worth a read

it's not exactly that it's anti-male, but anti- traits that are intrinsic to male psychology, socialization, and maturation

boys get subjectively graded early on in school and are punished on what they're led to believe are objective assessments, for being more disruptive in class than girls are. nobody is saying "here is the participation part of your score, see how you being a little prick caused your grade to go down?" they're saying "you got a B on this assessment, she got an A."

over time a lot of boys just decide they'll never be good at school and tune out, even though they were certainly capable. the subjective grading system, and the way teachers punish them for being annoying little pissant children, creates a system where they're not learning "I was punished for X" but rather "sometimes I am punished. there is no reason, it just happens."

Much like training a dog, training children should have clear connections between cause and effect.

darkman does not like children.

I did not grade like this as a teacher and neither did many of the teachers I worked with. My students has specific participation columns in their grades and I would put comments if they didnt get full credit explaining the reason why. It happened to boys and girls.

But yes if there are some teachers who factor behavior into assignment grades they need to switch that out.

It's okay that fewer men are going to college. It's only a problem when there's more men in STEM fields.
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Darkman124 posted...

Much like training a dog, training children should have clear connections between cause and effect.

darkman does not like children.

That's dark, man
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Darkman124 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

It is because the system as a whole is anti-male, and often times anti white male specifically.

i think the study is worth a read

it's not exactly that it's anti-male, but anti- traits that are intrinsic to male psychology, socialization, and maturation

boys get subjectively graded early on in school and are punished on what they're led to believe are objective assessments, for being more disruptive in class than girls are. nobody is saying "here is the participation part of your score, see how you being a little prick caused your grade to go down?" they're saying "you got a B on this assessment, she got an A."

over time a lot of boys just decide they'll never be good at school and tune out, even though they were certainly capable. the subjective grading system, and the way teachers punish them for being annoying little pissant children, creates a system where they're not learning "I was punished for X" but rather "sometimes I am punished. there is no reason, it just happens."

Much like training a dog, training children should have clear connections between cause and effect.

darkman does not like children.

dont underestimate the anti male bias, especially considering the "girl power" and "empower girls" narrative that is prevalent everywhere now.

the atlantic's piece suggests that it's more than that - that the way the "empower girls" narrative is structured is excluding boys because they're boys, not just because they're more rowdy

if the system is not interested in handling masculinity, then the system needs to be burned down and replaced with something that is healthy for boys too. otherwise we get emasculated men entering society en masse, which is really dangerous
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CruelBuffalo posted...

I did not grade like this as a teacher and neither did many of the teachers I worked with. My students has specific participation columns in their grades and I would put comments if they didnt get full credit explaining the reason why. It happened to boys and girls.

But yes if there are some teachers who factor behavior into assignment grades they need to switch that out.

there are, the study indicates they are a statistically significant subgroup and that pretty much all of the gap in grades between young male and female children can be described by this process
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Darkman124 posted...

this thread is a place we can mostly all find common ground

yep
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Darkman124 posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

Proof of this?

i posted proof although it isnt that girls are given special positive treatment, nor that it's given because of gender, but rather that boys are given special negative treatment because they behave in ways that boys tend to behave

Thanks Ill read when Im home. Curious, where did they pull their data from? Nationally? District? State?

Thats a fairly large differential. I think for both men and women theres something to be said for just getting a community college degree and getting yourself out in the workforce asap.
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metralo posted...

KILBOTz posted...

education is anti-male. boys learn differently and are not catered to, standard education is girl-centric.

lol

http://www.teachmag.com/archives/133

you can find tons of information on this if you are so inclined. We are where we are largely because of women's rights movements and gender equality, over-rotated and are left with a system that treats girl behavior as normal and boy behavior as troublesome.
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Darkman124 posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

I did not grade like this as a teacher and neither did many of the teachers I worked with. My students has specific participation columns in their grades and I would put comments if they didnt get full credit explaining the reason why. It happened to boys and girls.

But yes if there are some teachers who factor behavior into assignment grades they need to switch that out.

there are, the study indicates they are a statistically significant subgroup and that pretty much all of the gap in grades between young male and female children can be described by this process

From browsing the first page, its primary (k-6) not all grades, right?

CruelBuffalo posted...

Thanks Ill read when Im home. Curious, where did they pull their data from? Nationally? District? State?

nationwide

data set came from the 1998-1999 NCES random sample

K-5

they're investigating the early trends that get this ball rolling; likely later performance gaps are a result of the development of early gaps that resulted in disengagement by the older child
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It has been said that schools are run by women for girls.

Maybe there is a point there when boys have been falling so far behind.

It doesn't help that there is a lot of social enthusiasm around getting girls to succeed and next to nothing about getting boys to succeed.
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Another factor that contributes to all of this is that teachers are overwhelmingly women. Like, close to 90% of all teachers K-12 are women IIRC.

Boys literally are not provided with role models and are instead being told that they're the problem in society. It is a narrative that is not considered damaging or politically incorrect due to the way "privilege" has been constructed as a framework.

How hard the pendulum swings back depends on whether or not we collectively put an end to the horseshit rhetoric against boys/men.
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Part of it is because people are realizing going to college doesn't guarantee you a decent paying job, STEM major or not.

There's a lot of respectable degrees where you can't do anything without further education (law, chemistry...) and you're doing lab work for $12/hr with a bachelor's degree. Rent, car payment, student loans.... pick two to pay back because you sure as fuck don't have enough to pay all three lol.
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MrPeppers posted...

That's dark, man

i barely like adults

i do not like children
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Darkman124 posted...

MrPeppers posted...

That's dark, man

i barely like adults

i do not like children

dont u love me daddy?
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Another factor that contributes to all of this is that teachers are overwhelmingly women. Like, close to 90% of all teachers K-12 are women IIRC.

Boys literally are not provided with role models and are instead being told that they're the problem in society. It is a narrative that is not considered damaging or politically incorrect due to the way "privilege" has been constructed as a framework.

How hard the pendulum swings back depends on whether or not we collectively put an end to the horseshit rhetoric against boys/men.

Dont you discourage people from not getting STEM degrees? What do you think most primary school teachers get degrees in, engineering?

Moreover, didnt you advocate that teaching should be done remotely to save costs and automate it all through a computer. Doesnt that fly against that boys learn differently and need non-conformity?

i mean this is a real problem and all but what are you suggesting should be done about it? or do you think it's someone else's problem to fix?
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btw guys, theatlantic is a left leaning source

so if even theyre raising the alarm maybe it's time to realize that there is a real and serious problem brewing
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Another factor that contributes to all of this is that teachers are overwhelmingly women. Like, close to 90% of all teachers K-12 are women IIRC.

how would you 'fix' that without regulations or quotas?
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Good. Too many people are going to college in the first place. The problem with our country is that "educated" has come to mean "college educated" and that's not simply how it works. Kids are told from a young age that you have to go to college to get a good job and increasingly, that's simply not true. Only a third of people even work in the field their college degree is in. I have a B.S. in information systems management and I'm a structural mechanic.

Take two kids at age 18. Send kid A to college and kid B to a labor union. Turn the clock four years.

Kid A now has a degree that guarantees him nothing, he has $50,000 in education debt and he is about as employable as he was when he was 18. Moves out of the dorms back into mom and dad's house, gets at job at Starbucks for $9/hr. He's "educated."

Kid B is now a journeyman welder making wage, and earns $47.50/hr. He can charge $100/hr for off the table side work and can make more on the side on a Saturday morning than kid A earns in a whole week. He's saved his money and now has a net worth of $100,000. At 22 he can now look at buying a home and starting a family. He's "uneducated."

The sooner we can acknowledge that everyone's kid is not going to be an engineer or a scientist and the sooner we can acknowledge that not only is there nothing wrong with blue collar work, there's good livings to be made doing it, the sooner we can move forward as a country.
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MedeaLysistrata posted...

i mean this is a real problem and all but what are you suggesting should be done about it? or do you think it's someone else's problem to fix?

step one is to either include boys in the "empowerment" narrative or to eliminate it entirely. anti-male narrative should not be a sanctioned part of any political orthodoxy

step two is to stop excluding men from teaching careers
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

btw guys, theatlantic is a left leaning source

so if even theyre raising the alarm maybe it's time to realize that there is a real and serious problem brewing

i saw atlantic articles on this years before

there's been continuous attempts to get attn to this subject area for a while
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