Poll of the Day > this innocent autistic man is accused of murder

(+) Yeah! (+)

Tezlok posted...

yea but again, there is no evidence. I saw an entire hour long special on this guy, and they never produced any actual proof that he did it. it was just a bunch of speculation

You think a special focused on him to suggest that he's innocent would spend any time focusing on things pointing to potential guilt?
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Mead posted...

Even after he was told what was going on he kept holding the kid down to the ground.

yes. this is the worst part. that was what got me the most angry about that story. I remember watching the video and just being in disbelief when he didn't let the kid go after he learned the truth.

Tezlok posted...

yea but again, there is no evidence. I saw an entire hour long special on this guy, and they never produced any actual proof that he did it. it was just a bunch of speculation

When did you get a detective license?
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Tezlok posted...

yea but again, there is no evidence. I saw an entire hour long special on this guy, and they never produced any actual proof that he did it. it was just a bunch of speculation

they didn't produce any actual proof in the oj documentary either.
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they did have a small part dealing with a guy at the dock who claims he saw Nathan drilling or something in the side of the boat. but the thing is, why would he do that and put himself at risk too? it's not like he just sent his mom out on the boat. he was on the boat too. and he almost drowned. he was in the water for a while before he was rescued I think clinging to wreckage or something.

Doctor Foxx posted...

Tezlok posted...

yea but again, there is no evidence. I saw an entire hour long special on this guy, and they never produced any actual proof that he did it. it was just a bunch of speculation

You think a special focused on him to suggest that he's innocent would spend any time focusing on things pointing to potential guilt?

More people need to realize this about documentaries. The vast majority of them are trying to push a specific goal or idea, and will make sure to only present things that support that goal. If they run into anything that contradicts the message they are trying to send, they will either cut it out entirely, or significantly downplay it.
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ok but that doesn't mean that the guy is guilty just cause Duckbear said so. I just don't get why duckbear makes a topic proclaiming the guy is guilty without even providing any reasons. and nobody has a problem with it. then I do the opposite and people argue with me.

i didn't see that topic.

i also never said he was guilty.
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Tezlok posted...

ok but that doesn't mean that the guy is guilty just cause Duckbear said so. I just don't get why duckbear makes a topic proclaiming the guy is guilty without even providing any reasons. and nobody has a problem with it. then I do the opposite and people argue with me.

Because that's duckbears gimmick. He's sensationalizes news and everyone knows to take whatever he posts with a grain of salt.

The only redeeming quality to his topics is that they sometimes actually spark interesting discussion. For the most part though, they're pure trash (and people do constantly call out his awful awful topics).
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

i didn't see that topic.

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/3-poll-of-the-day/76259795

it's what made me make this topic. I saw the show about the guy and had my opinion but I didn't think about it more until like a week later when duckbear made that topic and it annoyed me.

There's an episode of Unsolved Mysteries on Prime video that got under my skin... Basically, some corrupt sheriff threw this slow teenager under the bus just to close a case quickly. There's evidence he threatened him with his gun to coerce a confession, the works. This other law enforcement guy knew the whole thing was bogus and fought tooth and nail for the kid but the judge just didn't give a shit and all the fabricated evidence against the accused stuck and no appeals were treated seriously. They even had a fellow inmate who was actually involved provide evidence to support the innocence of the guy (he was in for life and just felt sorry for him and didn't mind taking more blame).The dude ended up dying of cancer in prison before being exonerated. The whole thing was horrible.
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TheCyborgNinja posted...

There's an episode of Unsolved Mysteries on Prime video that got under my skin... Basically, some corrupt sheriff threw this slow teenager under the bus just to close a case quickly. There's evidence he threatened him with his gun to coerce a confession, the works. This other law enforcement guy knew the whole thing was bogus and fought tooth and nail for the kid but the judge just didn't give a shit and all the fabricated evidence against the accused stuck and no appeals were treated seriously. The dude ended up dying of cancer in prison before being exonerated. The whole thing was horrible.

yea, the justice system is full of sad stories like that. sometimes people get into those jobs just for the money and power and they hurt people. that's why I am against the death penalty. there are too many of these cases where it turns out sometimes even after decades later, that the person didn't do it. and sometimes lawyers judges and cops KNEW they were innocent and covered it up.

Tezlok posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

There's an episode of Unsolved Mysteries on Prime video that got under my skin... Basically, some corrupt sheriff threw this slow teenager under the bus just to close a case quickly. There's evidence he threatened him with his gun to coerce a confession, the works. This other law enforcement guy knew the whole thing was bogus and fought tooth and nail for the kid but the judge just didn't give a shit and all the fabricated evidence against the accused stuck and no appeals were treated seriously. The dude ended up dying of cancer in prison before being exonerated. The whole thing was horrible.

yea, the justice system is full of sad stories like that. sometimes people get into those jobs just for the money and power and they hurt people. that's why I am against the death penalty. there are too many of these cases where it turns out sometimes even after decades later, that the person didn't do it. and sometimes lawyers judges and cops KNEW they were innocent and covered it up.

One of the deputies involved was actually a convicted felon, iirc. That's how fucked up this was.
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Zikten posted...

she won her trial. she was deemed innocent. there is no evidence she did it. get over it. not every american is a monster and you cant just throw tourists in prison

My apologies, I guess I mixed up two trials.

I distinctly remember a trial of an American in Europe that was declared not guilty in the first trial, fled back to the states and then refused to return for the retrial because they thought double jeopardy also applied abroad for Americans.
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Nichtcrawler X posted...

Zikten posted...

she won her trial. she was deemed innocent. there is no evidence she did it. get over it. not every american is a monster and you cant just throw tourists in prison

My apologies, I guess I mixed up two trials.

I distinctly remember a trial of an American in Europe that was declared not guilty in the first trial, fled back to the states and then refused to return for the retrial because they thought double jeopardy also applied abroad for Americans.

Ok I looked it up and you are thinking of her. Except it sounds like ultimately they annulled their decision. But also she did not flee
At the time she went home they had just said she was not guilty and let her go free. What do you expect, that she live in Italy forever? She had two trials and was set free. This actually shows the importance of double jeapordy. Italy could not make up it's mind and kept switching back and forth from innocent to guilty. It's bullshit. This is why we have doulbw jeopardy in America

Tezlok posted...

This actually shows the importance of double jeapordy.

There are extremes for either side.

To me, the idea of no retrial even when sufficient evidence has been gathered is just weird.

But then again, not being American, double jeopardy means to me: "Declared not guilty, so now wrote a back how it happened, but double jeopardy so nothing anyone can do".
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I feel like Zikten thinks this guy is innocent literally only because the guy is autistic.
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I decided to look into this a little more

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/nathan-carman-linda-carman-death-at-sea.html

I know you think he is innocent but here are some facts

1. Right before they set out he enlarged holes that were in the boats hull

2. There is no explanation as to why his mother could not make it to the raft or why the emergency transmitter was not activated

3. He has refused to cooperate with authorities

4. He was a suspect in the still unsolved murder of his grandfather

5. After the death of his mother and grandfather he is set to inherit 7 million dollars

6. On a mental health message board his mother had described psychotic episodes and mentioned hostile behavior such as screaming at her and calling her satan
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Nichtcrawler X posted...

Tezlok posted...

This actually shows the importance of double jeapordy.

There are extremes for either side.

To me, the idea of no retrial even when sufficient evidence has been gathered is just weird.

But then again, not being American, double jeopardy means to me: "Declared not guilty, so now wrote a back how it happened, but double jeopardy so nothing anyone can do".

I understand what you are saying but in this case Italy just kept messing with her. They wouldn't stop until they got the result they wanted. She doesn't have to put up with that

if there's two things nathan is fully capable of, it's 1. disappointing those close to him, and 2. murder, ok?
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Nichtcrawler X posted...

so now wrote a back how it happened,

That should have been book, guess I spotted that to late.
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Tezlok posted...

Krazy_Kirby posted...

i didn't see that topic.

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/3-poll-of-the-day/76259795

it's what made me make this topic. I saw the show about the guy and had my opinion but I didn't think about it more until like a week later when duckbear made that topic and it annoyed me.

perhaps i should clarify, i didnt see it because i have him on ignore
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Tezlok posted...

you can't prove he did. and it was a boat accident. she drowned. he survived. show me the evidence that he somehow killed her. if there was any evidence the cops would have charged him.

If he's not charged with anything, then why would you even make this topic at all?

Mead posted...

He violently assaulted and detained a minor for no other reason that he thought the teen was acting strange and started to walk away from him. Even after he was told what was going on he kept holding the kid down to the ground while he cried for help.

There was no reason for him to be harassed to begin with. He was in his own neighborhood not harming anyone. Bad cop, no donut

I'm not going to reargue that case. I did it in the last topic so if you wanna see it, you'll have to look it up. We're just going to have to agree to disagree.
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Smarkil posted...

We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

No
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Tezlok posted...

yea but again, there is no evidence. I saw an entire hour long special on this guy, and they never produced any actual proof that he did it. it was just a bunch of speculation

Whoa! A whole hour?! You may have just revolutionized our court system.
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Mead posted...

Smarkil posted...

We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

No

Then I disagree with your not argeeing to disagree. Therefore you have agreed to disagree.
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Cacciato posted...

Whoa! A whole hour?! You may have just revolutionized our court system.

Well the court system is shitty since they allow speculation in courts.
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Mead posted...

Zikten you would be the worst cop in history

This guy couldnt have committed the crime, he says he didnt do it

he loves his mom why would he do that
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Cacciato posted...

Tezlok posted...

yea but again, there is no evidence. I saw an entire hour long special on this guy, and they never produced any actual proof that he did it. it was just a bunch of speculation

Whoa! A whole hour?! You may have just revolutionized our court system.

You'd think that, but it takes a lot of hours to put that documentary together which brings us right back to the beginning.

Mead posted...

I decided to look into this a little more

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/nathan-carman-linda-carman-death-at-sea.html

I know you think he is innocent but here are some facts

1. Right before they set out he enlarged holes that were in the boats hull

2. There is no explanation as to why his mother could not make it to the raft or why the emergency transmitter was not activated

3. He has refused to cooperate with authorities

4. He was a suspect in the still unsolved murder of his grandfather

5. After the death of his mother and grandfather he is set to inherit 7 million dollars

6. On a mental health message board his mother had described psychotic episodes and mentioned hostile behavior such as screaming at her and calling her satan

While I have no strong opinion as to whether he did or didn't do it, it seems like death by misadventure is still on the table. However, your link and reasons piqued my interest so I decided to read at least some of the article.

1. I can't find any reference to this claim. Control+F returned a mention that he decided to remove some fixtures, in the process creating holes which he then tried to patch up. However, that doesn't really seem suspicious so much as it seems stupid.

3. Keep in mind he has a disability... Everything described in the article suggests that this isn't out of character for him, nor is the vague "refusing to cooperate" evidence of anything. It's like arguing that only guilty people hire lawyers.

4. These local cops seem pretty incompetent

5. Not really much of a motive in itself, considering he was already having his needs covered by that wealthy family. More importantly, his aunts seem to have motive in blaming him since it would mean that an inheritance they wouldn't otherwise receive might instead go to them. It seems like the aunts were kinda egging on this investigation.

Also the grandfather sounds like a complete dick, with the emotional and financial manipulation he attempted at times. If anybody was going to off the guy, I would sooner suspect it would be a mom or aunt.
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ZiggiStardust posted...

if there's two things nathan is fully capable of, it's 1. disappointing those close to him, and 2. murder, ok?

Amen, ok?
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yea I feel like the aunts are behind some shady stuff in this story. they refused to go to their own sister's funeral.

Zeus posted...

While I have no strong opinion as to whether he did or didn't do it

Then maybe you should find something better to do than respond to yet another one of my posts with another one of your obnoxious fucking litanies
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zeus really just has to feel like he said a lot of important things. he's like po
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Mead posted...

Zeus posted...

While I have no strong opinion as to whether he did or didn't do it

Then maybe you should find something better to do than respond to yet another one of my posts with another one of your obnoxious fucking litanies

While I have no strong opinion as to whether he did or didn't do it, I very strongly felt that *some* of your arguments were problematic or misleading.

I also feel very strongly about your tendency to respond to the man rather than the criticisms, as well as your hypocrisy considering you very frequently call me out over absolutely nothing, but when I dare to question your opinion, you flip.
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No one cares what you think Zeus because you are a predictable contrarian that tells bold faced lies about your political leanings and comes up with hilarious conspiracy theories as well as expresses severe paranoia over anyone discovering any details about your actual life.

Going forward any posts made where you quote me to post a counterpoint or opinion that no one cares about will be marked for harassment.
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Mead posted...

No one cares what you think Zeus because you are a predictable contrarian that tells bold faced lies about your political leanings and comes up with hilarious conspiracy theories as well as expresses severe paranoia over anyone discovering any details about your actual life.

Overlooking your unparalleled display of hypocrisy, the expression is "bald-faced lies." You should be familiar with the concept because you constantly employ it against me (including frequently lying about or misrepresenting my political leanings, as you've already acknowledged). Otherwise your claims of typical of your campaign of harassment against me, which has thus far included attempts to stalk my old user-names, randomly bringing up places I've lived, etc, before attempting to downplay any reaction to your behavior as paranoia.

Mead posted...

Going forward any posts made where you quote me to post a counterpoint or opinion that no one cares about will be marked for harassment.

So basically you're announcing an intention to abuse the moderation system as a weapon to harass users with whom you disagree? Suddenly it's a little clearer who was going through those old topics and marking all of my posts -- which, by the way, anything that was modded got overturned.

At any rate, if you don't want to see my posts for whatever reason, there IS an option for that. And it's a more reasonable solution than saying that a person shouldn't be allowed to post because you disagree with them.
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Zeus posted...

I also feel very strongly about your tendency to respond to the man rather than the criticisms

In this case the man is known for being deliberately vague and obtuse, so
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Nightengale posted...

Zeus posted...

I also feel very strongly about your tendency to respond to the man rather than the criticisms

In this case the man is known for being deliberately vague and obtuse, so

Don't get isosceles with me! >_> There's nothing vague in my criticisms of his arguments in this matter, except perhaps for the point about the cops sucking at their job which I should clarify reflects their inability to solve a clear murder and subsequent attempt to close the case by tying it to a suspicious death. And, of course, their handling of his disability.

I very specifically addressed a claim which made it sound like he was deliberately enlarging holes by questioning the source, considering I couldn't find reference to it other than his decision to remove something -- which, from what I've seen, is somewhat typical of people who have those kinds of disabilities.
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Zeus posted...

clear murder

Citation needed.
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Revelation34 posted...

Zeus posted...

clear murder

Citation needed.

Clear murder meaning a clear case of murder, not a matter of who clearly did it. It stands in contrast to the mother's death which could simply be death by misadventure rather than murder.

Unless you're asking for a citation proving that the grandfather's death is clearly a case of murder, at which point you could check any of the links already provided. He was shot multiple times -- including once in the back -- by a rifle that wasn't found at the scene of the crime.
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Zeus posted...

Revelation34 posted...

Zeus posted...

clear murder

Citation needed.

Clear murder meaning a clear case of murder, not a matter of who clearly did it. It stands in contrast to the mother's death which could simply be death by misadventure rather than murder.

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Mead posted...

Zeus posted...

Revelation34 posted...

Zeus posted...

clear murder

Citation needed.

Clear murder meaning a clear case of murder, not a matter of who clearly did it. It stands in contrast to the mother's death which could simply be death by misadventure rather than murder.

For a guy who claims to want nothing to do with me, you sure try to have a lot to do with me. And you've been spamming those emojis quite a few times and I'm sure what you mean to say.
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Jen0125 posted...

that's casey anthony.

Zikten probably thinks she didn't do it either just because she wasn't convicted.

Tezlok posted...

yea but again, there is no evidence. I saw an entire hour long special on this guy, and they never produced any actual proof that he did it. it was just a bunch of speculation

What you saw was probably a publicity piece put together to garner sympathy for him. It almost certainly wasn't an unbiased portrayal of the facts but a skewed version that left out anything that didn't fit the narrative they were trying to put out. That's how documentaries generally work these days. They are rarely unbiased anymore. They have a purpose and that is to convince you to see things their way. They don't flat out lie but don't tell the whole truth either.
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Zeus posted...

Mead posted...

Zeus posted...

Revelation34 posted...

Zeus posted...

clear murder

Citation needed.

Clear murder meaning a clear case of murder, not a matter of who clearly did it. It stands in contrast to the mother's death which could simply be death by misadventure rather than murder.

For a guy who claims to want nothing to do with me, you sure try to have a lot to do with me. And you've been spamming those emojis quite a few times and I'm sure what you mean to say.

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Bugmeat posted...

Zikten probably thinks she didn't do it either just because she wasn't convicted

No I think she is guilty