Current Events > What's something interesting you learned this week?

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I've been reading Classic Greek Tactics: A Cultural History by Roel Konijnendijk in which he attempts to sketch a new model of Greek warfare that reflects the cultural values of the Ancient Greeks instead of the old model made up of assumptions by German scholars all the way back in the 19th century.

Basically it's based off the heretical view of Greek warfare that rejects the old agonal warfare model. The orthodox model of limited, ritualistic warfare, of unwritten rules. He's not writing anything new but he does try to tell it in the context of Greek culture. He writes of brutal and bloodthirsty battles, of ambushes, deceive and treachery, of completely untrained and undisciplined hoplites who rejected any sort of military training and their uselessness without the support of lightly armed troops and cavalry, and how commanders had to deal with the completely amateur nature of Greek warfare. As I said, it's not anything really new.

However, what is really interesting, imo, is the last chapter of the book. In which he describes the real nature of trophies and truces in Greek warfare. From the sources we have we always hear of these two practices right after battle. However he is quick to point out that the setting up of trophies always occurred after certain time had passed. The reason for this is that the setting of trophies occurred when the victorious army had chased their enemies as far as they could.

The rest of the army returning with Clearidas from the pursuit stripped the dead and set up a trophy. Thuc. 5.10.12

The Athenians did not pursue far, being held in check by the numerous and undefeated Syracusan horse, who attacked and drove back any of their heavy infantry whom they saw pursuing in advance of the rest; in spite of which the victors followed so far as was safe in a body, and then went back and set up a trophy. Thuc. 6.70.3

He points out that the Greeks always chased their opponents with glee and as far as they could. He makes the argument that the slaughter that followed the rout was the whole reason the Greeks engaged in battle. He posts some passages to highlight that point:

And the Lacedaemonians were in no uncertainty about whom they should kill; for then at least heaven granted them an achievement such as they could never even have prayed for. For to have a crowd of enemies delivered into their hands, frightened, panic-stricken, presenting their unprotected sides, no one rallying to his own defence, but all rendering all possible assistance toward their own destruction,how could one help regarding this as a gift from heaven? On that day, at all events, so many fell within a short time that men accustomed to see heaps of corn, wood, or stones, beheld then heaps of dead bodies. Furthermore, the Boeotians of the garrison in the port were also killed, some upon the walls, and others after they had climbed up on the roofs of the ship-houses. Xen. Hell. 4.4.12

For, you know, when states defeat their foes in a battle, words fail one to describe the joy they feel in the rout of the enemy, in the pursuit, in the slaughter of the enemy. What transports of triumphant pride! What a halo of glory about them! What comfort to think that they have exalted their city! Everyone is crying: `I had a share in the plan, I killed most'; and it's hard to find where they don't revel in falsehood, claiming to have killed more than all that were really slain. So glorious it seems to them to have won a great victory! Xen. Hiero 2.15-16

Furthermore, he highlights a key passage on the nature of trophies:

After this the Syracusans set up a trophy for the sea-fight and for the heavy infantry whom they had cut off up at the lines, where they took the horses; and the Athenians for the rout of the foot driven by the Tyrrhenians into the marsh, and for their own victory with the rest of the army. Thuc. 7.54.1

This explicit passage reveals that the trophies the Greeks set up were not about victory but about the slaughter.
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Girl pee comes from a vaginas.
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GameGodOfAll posted...

Girl pee comes from a vaginas.

Somebody lied to you.
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Whenever i hear the word memo, all i think of is dilbert comic strips
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Dave Franco pretty cool Spetsnaz
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Interesting trivia. The day after Japan attack on Pearl Harbor there was only one person in congress who voted no to wage war on Japan. She was a representative in the house who was the first woman to be elected in the United States Congress. She daid "as a woman, I can't go to war, and I refuse to send anyone else. The other nine women in congress at the time voted yes.
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50Blessings posted...

Dave Franco pretty cool Spetsnaz

He was ordered to move to safety before the air strike but told his commander he couldn't escape the area, before adding: "I am surrounded, they are outside, I dont want them to take me and parade me, conduct the airstrike, they will make a mockery of me and this uniform. I want to die with dignity and take all these bastards with me. Please my last wish, conduct the airstrike, they will kill me either way. This is the end commander, thank you, tell my family and my country I love them. Tell them I was brave and I fought until I could no longer. Please take care of my family, avenge my death, goodbye commander, tell my family I love them".

Also forgot to add a quick summary since I made too long of a post: He makes the point that Greek warfare was all about the slaughter of your enemies. Their whole thought of war revolved around the annihilation of the enemy. The point being is that there never was any limited or ritualized warfare, there was no formalized way of war. There was only butchers seeking to do the most amount of damage they could.
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Zikten posted...

50Blessings posted...

Dave Franco pretty cool Spetsnaz

He was ordered to move to safety before the air strike but told his commander he couldn't escape the area, before adding: "I am surrounded, they are outside, I dont want them to take me and parade me, conduct the airstrike, they will make a mockery of me and this uniform. I want to die with dignity and take all these bastards with me. Please my last wish, conduct the airstrike, they will kill me either way. This is the end commander, thank you, tell my family and my country I love them. Tell them I was brave and I fought until I could no longer. Please take care of my family, avenge my death, goodbye commander, tell my family I love them".

The epitome of greatness jfc. Nobody talks about this man and never will
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Licking doorknobs is illegal on other planets.
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darkprince45 posted...

The epitome of greatness jfc. Nobody talks about this man and never will

The ironic thing is that we're doing it right now in this very topic.
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50Blessings posted...

Dave Franco pretty cool Spetsnaz

F
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I learned that the US hasn't had an ambassador to South Korea for many months now and the person who was nominated (and confirmed by the South Koreans) had his nomination repealed by our government, because apparently he's not conservative enough (despite the fact he is very conservative, he just doesn't approve of a first strike against NK).
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