Current Events > the cops shot a 17 year old here but I guess it seems justified

(+) Yeah! (+)

A black kid obviously

anyway people were demanding to see the dashcam video and the police originally declined. lots of people got mad and said things along the lines of not believing the cops story because it was suspicious, so they released it today and it shows him pretty clearly struggling with the cops and shooting at them just like the cops said happened

the video was posted half an hour ago and pretty much none of my activist friends have responded to it

what do you think is the appropriate response from those who are concerned about police brutality? personally I think it would be best to admit the cops had legitimate concerns for their safety and use the moment to shift the conversation towards descalation tactics or something like that

I sort of feel like it is just going to be ignored though. I guess we'll see
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The moment you start a fight with the cops, you're screwing yourself. They can't just stop and let the person go, they have to apprehend.
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Link?
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The big issue is that people often use psychological availability as a heuristic for determining prevelancy. So, like the actual incidents of police brutality/misconduct are likely making the prevelancy subjectively much higher, simply because they are much more salient.

I mean, mostly you are just wishing humans to be more rational, which unfortunately, and fortunately, is not how the brain works.
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Vicious_Dios posted...

Link?

Am I allowed to post a video of someoen being shot to death?
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Vicious_Dios posted...

Link?

A video of someone dying is against the ToS
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was he a criminal
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Balrog0 posted...

Vicious_Dios posted...

Link?

Am I allowed to post a video of someoen being shot to death?

Nope.
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case by case

i dunno what happens more often and it doesn't matter
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society based totally on logic would be bad

like vulcans or the borg
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Asherlee10 posted...

Why fortunately?

Heuristics exist for a reason, they work really well, most of the time. If we didn't take shortcuts in computations, if we were maximally rational and explicit, we would be extremely inefficient, which likely was detrimental to survival.
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Third parties need to start believing in due process more before they get upset. Although police hold way to much power in court cases, but the truth will usually always be given.
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Balrog0 posted...

A black kid obviously

anyway people were demanding to see the dashcam video and the police originally declined. lots of people got mad and said things along the lines of not believing the cops story because it was suspicious, so they released it today and it shows him pretty clearly struggling with the cops and shooting at them just like the cops said happened

the video was posted half an hour ago and pretty much none of my activist friends have responded to it

what do you think is the appropriate response from those who are concerned about police brutality? personally I think it would be best to admit the cops had legitimate concerns for their safety and use the moment to shift the conversation towards descalation tactics or something like that

I sort of feel like it is just going to be ignored though. I guess we'll see

You nailed it on the head. Shift the focus to descalation tactics.

When I first entered the academy we were taught that if you discharge your weapon and the suspect doesn't have one or didn't discharge one, you were almost guaranteed to go down for it.

Guess that wasn't across the board though and we seem to have shifted away from that mindset all together.
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Balrog0 posted...

what do you think is the appropriate response from those who are concerned about police brutality?

Maybe you can not begin with the assumption that all police are racist and have it out for black people.
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Zeeak4444 posted...

You nailed it on the head. Shift the focus to descalation tactics.

When I first entered the academy we were taught that if you discharge your weapon and the suspect doesn't have one or didn't discharge one, you were almost guaranteed to go down for it.

Guess that wasn't across the board though and we seem to have shifted away from that mindset all together.

well, I mean, this kid did have a gun and it definitely looks like he both fired it and was attempting to fire it again

many people found this narrative unbelievable, though, basically. they didn't think it made sense that they could discover a gun during a pat down and somehow manage to get away during the ensuing struggle

but basically that is what happened. the video doesn't show the pat down, but one cop is with the other two passengers while they sit on the street talking to them about if they have drugs on them. the kid comes running from the direction the police car is in with a gun in his hand. he gets tackled and the gun goes off. It's not really possible to tell if he was trying to shoot anyone at that point, but he definitely points the gun in the direction of an officer
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Mal_Fet posted...

Maybe you can not begin with the assumption that all police are racist and have it out for black people.

I mean, that could still be true, though. It also doesn't seem like useful or practical advice aside from that.
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Balrog0 posted...

Mal_Fet posted...

Maybe you can not begin with the assumption that all police are racist and have it out for black people.

I mean, that could still be true, though. It also doesn't seem like useful or practical advice aside from that.

It could be, but all communities with antagonistic relationships with the police have MORE crime and death, not less. Makes sense, since the police really can't solve any crimes or put dangerous people behind bars when the public refuses to cooperate as witnesses and are more likely to take the criminals' side because of their skin color.

That's why I say that not immediately accusing the police of racism every time a non-white person has an altercation with them would be a good start.
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Oh sorry, what I meant to convey is that we should be coming down on other cases where unlawful force was used precisely so we don't have these situations occur.

I wholly agree with this case based on what I know. Just voicing my displeasure that in a case where the suspect did discharge a weapon were still dealing with so much distrust. If that makes sense.

I guess I'm saying that weapons should be used far less liberally so that we have more accountability when weapons are discharged.
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I blame the rap music
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ClunkerSlim posted...

r4X0r posted...

The moment you start a fight with the cops, you're screwing yourself.

Yeah! ...or you know, if you just open your front door after being swatted.

Both of these are true. And yet, they have nothing to do with each other . . .
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I guess I'm not sure what exactly you want people to do here? It seems like a pretty clear cut case of someone fighting and shooting at the cops and very few people would call his death justified. People questioned the story at first, which is fair, and found out that it was pretty accurate the way it was initially described, and went about their business after the fact.

EDIT: *unjustified
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Twin3Turbo posted...

I guess I'm not sure what exactly you want people to do here? It seems like a pretty clear cut case of someone fighting and shooting at the cops and very few people would call his death justified. People questioned the story at first, which is fair, and found out that it was pretty accurate the way it was initially described, and went about their business after the fact.

I kind of already said what I thought people should do?

Obviously it makes sense for a lot of people to just drop it and move on with their lives, but I'm talking about activists who are supposedly proactive about these issues.
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Balrog0 posted...

A black kid obviously

Why is that obvious?
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This is why I don't understand police being so resistant to cameras. It's for everyone's protection, including theirs. Did they ever say why they didn't originally want to release it?
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Balrog0 posted...

Twin3Turbo posted...

I guess I'm not sure what exactly you want people to do here? It seems like a pretty clear cut case of someone fighting and shooting at the cops and very few people would call his death justified. People questioned the story at first, which is fair, and found out that it was pretty accurate the way it was initially described, and went about their business after the fact.

I kind of already said what I thought people should do?

Obviously it makes sense for a lot of people to just drop it and move on with their lives, but I'm talking about activists who are supposedly proactive about these issues.

Very few people will come out of the blue and talk about how justified it is without any real reason to do so. Rarely do people comment on pretty much anything when it's business as usual. I guess @'ing them and asking for their opinion could prompt them to do what you want them to do.
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darkphoenix181 posted...

Balrog0 posted...

A black kid obviously

Why is that obvious?

The funny part about this is that it turned out to be a justified homicide, changing the meaning entirely to be negative toward blacks instead of police.
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I didn't ask for advice on how to get people to respond. I asked what you think people should do in response to it. If you think nothing, that's cool, thanks for responding.
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The activists won't care. In their mind, the cop was in the wrong.

Even you, too, by saying that a cop WHO WAS SHOT AT should consider 'deescalation.' You are still blaming the cop.
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the police should have shot the gun out of his hand
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darkjedilink posted...

Even you, too, by saying that a cop WHO WAS SHOT AT should consider 'deescalation.' You are still blaming the cop.

Look, you tool, the shooting occurred after the conflict escalated, and de-escalation would potentially make things safer for the cops, too.
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Balrog0 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Even you, too, by saying that a cop WHO WAS SHOT AT should consider 'deescalation.' You are still blaming the cop.

Look, you tool, the shooting occurred after the conflict escalated, and de-escalation would potentially make things safer for the cops, too.

Not from someone so intent on killing a cop that he wrests a gun from them.

Which, lemme guess - is the cop's fault, right?
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darkjedilink posted...

Which, lemme guess - is the cop's fault, right?

I'm not trying to be offensive, but are you not very intelligent? Like, have you ever been tested for reading comprehension defects ?
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eston posted...

This is why I don't understand police being so resistant to cameras. It's for everyone's protection, including theirs. Did they ever say why they didn't originally want to release it?

Ongoing investigation, most likely. The Court of Public Opinion hinders justice at every turn.
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Balrog0 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Which, lemme guess - is the cop's fault, right?

I'm not trying to be offensive, but are you not very intelligent? Like, have you ever been tested for reading comprehension defects ?

I have taken multiple IQ tests, in the 150 range. 97th percentile ASVAB. 3.67 gpa.

I can comprehend just fine. However, you can't even read your own words and see how, after proof the cops were right, you're still blaming them for this kid dying.

Just because he's black.
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darkjedilink posted...

I can comprehend just fine.

No, you don't, because I never did this:

darkjedilink posted...

you're still blaming them for this kid dying.

What I said is that it would be better for people who were complaining about this to switch their dialogue to something more constructive in light of the new evidence. A genius like you should be able to distinguish between those things.

darkjedilink posted...

Just because he's black.

you honestly don't know me at all if that's what you think, also
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Balrog0 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

I can comprehend just fine.

No, you don't, because I never did this:

darkjedilink posted...

you're still blaming them for this kid dying.

What I said is that it would be better for people who were complaining about this to switch their dialogue to something more constructive in light of the new evidence. A genius like you should be able to distinguish between those things.

darkjedilink posted...

Just because he's black.

you honestly don't know me at all if that's what you think, also

You're going to sit there and honestly pretend that you didn't think race was the issue? That you weren't sitting there with your activist friend screaming that this was a racially-motivated attack on another innocent black man by cops?

We know you did. Your first sentence proves it.
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darkjedilink posted...

You're going to sit there and honestly pretend that you didn't think race was the issue? That you weren't sitting there with your activist friend screaming that this was a racially-motivated attack on another innocent black man by cops?

as long as you're not pretending I said anything and you're just making assumptions about me I don't care what you think tbh

darkjedilink posted...

We know you did. Your first sentence proves it.

let's be real here, you would say the exact same thing with a different tone and then complain about how no one would care if it was a white guy
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Balrog0 posted...

let's be real here, you would say the exact same thing with a different tone and then complain about how no one would care if it was a white guy

Oh? How, since the only way we know the person who was killed was black was because you said so?

And does your deflection mean you admit that I was right about you making it a racial issue?
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Darklit_Minuet posted...

r4X0r posted...

They can't just stop and let the person go, they have to apprehend.

And this is the problem with American policing. Just let it go. Kid would be alive today if they just learned to let it go

Yeah, let the kid who shot the cop go. Let the murderers, gangbangers, and rapists go!
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darkjedilink posted...

Oh? How, since the only way we know the person who was killed was black was because you said so?

I don't understand your question. My point is that people like you often complain that people only care when minorities are shot by the police. My remark was intended to be tongue in cheek, as I also do not believe the police would have generated the same level of backlash if the suspect and shooting victim were white. Do you disagree?

darkjedilink posted...

And does your deflection mean you admit that I was right about you making it a racial issue?

No? I tend not to remark on things that I have no way of knowing about either way. And the only thing I've said about the case at all is this post right here on CE, where I thought I would be on your side since I said protesters should admit the cops were in the right and change their narrative away from the frame they were using about police brutality into something else. I can only imagine you construe me as not being on your side due to prior disagreements, rather than anything about thsi topic.
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Balrog0 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Oh? How, since the only way we know the person who was killed was black was because you said so?

I don't understand your question. My point is that people like you often complain that people only care when minorities are shot by the police. My remark was intended to be tongue in cheek, as I also do not believe the police would have generated the same level of backlash if the suspect and shooting victim were white. Do you disagree?

darkjedilink posted...

And does your deflection mean you admit that I was right about you making it a racial issue?

No? I tend not to remark on things that I have no way of knowing about either way. And the only thing I've said about the case at all is this post right here on CE, where I thought I would be on your side since I said protesters should admit the cops were in the right and change their narrative away from the frame they were using about police brutality into something else. I can only imagine you construe me as not being on your side due to prior disagreements, rather than anything about thsi topic.

No, I disagree with you because it apparently took THIS case to prove an irrefutable truth to you, despite almost every publicized cop shooting in the past 20 years having the same end - the facts come out, and the dead black guy made the mistake. Not the cop.

Your OP proves it. You took the dead black kid's side the moment you heard the cop shot him, and literally nothing short of video evidence would change your mind - not witness statements, forensic evidence, not the kid's record.

And now, while you are now FINALLY starting to question your short-sighted and racist liberal viewpoint, you're more concerned with your friends ignoring reality as you have and 'deescalation' than on why yet another black teenager had to die because of his own stupidity.

Solve that last problem and the others all fix themselves.
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If he did shoot at them, then he only has himself to blame really.
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lol you are making more assumptions than the people who immediately started attacking the cops
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AlephZero posted...

the police should have shot the gun out of his hand

Unfortunately real life isnt like spaghetti westerns.
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darkjedilink posted...

Balrog0 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Which, lemme guess - is the cop's fault, right?

I'm not trying to be offensive, but are you not very intelligent? Like, have you ever been tested for reading comprehension defects ?

I have taken multiple IQ tests, in the 150 range. 97th percentile ASVAB. 3.67 gpa.

I can comprehend just fine. However, you can't even read your own words and see how, after proof the cops were right, you're still blaming them for this kid dying.

Just because he's black.

if you're so smart how come you only got a 3.67 gpa
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Funkydog posted...

If he did shoot at them, then he only has himself to blame really.

poverty made him shoot at the cops
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