Current Events > The nice guy stuff doesn't work.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Darmik posted...

Not an entire gender.

Never said the girls are the problem. I said calling these guys boring is mislabeling them with intent to demonize them.

Understand the difference?

Your goto advice: "don't be boring! don't be fake nice!"

That won't help because it makes no sense. You falsely believe they are boring and not really nice.

Darmik posted...

Being 'boring' is a simple way of saying that girls don't find him interesting, attractive or exciting enough to date him. It's not just about being a boring person.

This is nuanced.

So then it isn't that he is boring, but that girl is looking for a different kind of fun.
That means he can have fun and can make other girls feel fun, just maybe not this one. See the difference?
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CrazyandLazy posted...

Perfect Response
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Wait, this isn't a Mercschamp topic?
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darkphoenix181 posted...

Your goto advice: "don't be boring! don't be fake nice!"

No it wasn't.

Darmik posted...

Think about what gets your heart racing.

Is it when you talk to a boring female friend about the weather? Nope. It's that lingering eye contact. That smile. A flirty line that replays in your head. The feeling of recognizing signs that this girl finds me attractive.

A lot of 'nice guys' don't seem to consider this thing. For some reason they think persistent boredom is the way to go. It has nothing to do with being nice.

You can't divide people in nice and not nice categories. That guy you think is an asshole could very well treat his girlfriend like a Queen.

The point is that being nice isn't really a factor because everyone is nice to people they like. If being nice is apparently the only thing you're offering you're probably being boring.

Flirting is fun and exciting. Flirting is an essential part of building an attracting. If you're a date that doesn't flirt you're boring in a romantic sense.
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Pepys Monster posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

donkeyjack posted...

Women love nice guys. You are just pretending to be one.

No, dude. This is a boring cliche now. Im really nice in real life.

And you think that being a nice guy means that girls are obliged to have a relationship with you. I.E., you are not a nice guy.

I didn't say that, did I? If I did, show me where. You're putting words into my mouth so I can fit into this boring cliche narrative you're trying to push.

So what do you mean by 'being a nice guy' then?

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

donkeyjack posted...

Women love nice guys. You are just pretending to be one.

No, dude. This is a boring cliche now. Im really nice in real life.

And you think that being a nice guy means that girls are obliged to have a relationship with you. I.E., you are not a nice guy.

I didn't say that, did I? If I did, show me where. You're putting words into my mouth so I can fit into this boring cliche narrative you're trying to push.

So what do you mean by 'being a nice guy' then?

Being friendly. Talking to girls and giving them hugs and good vibes.
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Pepys Monster posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

donkeyjack posted...

Women love nice guys. You are just pretending to be one.

No, dude. This is a boring cliche now. Im really nice in real life.

And you think that being a nice guy means that girls are obliged to have a relationship with you. I.E., you are not a nice guy.

I didn't say that, did I? If I did, show me where. You're putting words into my mouth so I can fit into this boring cliche narrative you're trying to push.

So what do you mean by 'being a nice guy' then?

Being friendly. Talking to girls and giving them hugs and good vibes.

So you expect nothing in return for doing this?

CrimsonRage posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

CrimsonRage posted...

So you're problem isn't because you're a "nice guy." You're problem is you have a specific type that doesn't seem interested in you. Now we're finally getting somewhere.

Well, who wants a boring girl? Unless she's really hot. Then maybe I could tolerate her boringness.

heh. I guess you're just not hot enough for these rave girls to tolerate your boringness then. :v

You could argue that I'm not hot enough, and perhaps you'd be right. But to call ME boring? That's asinine. I have crowds gather around me to watch my light shows.
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Darmik posted...

The point is that being nice isn't really a factor because everyone is nice to people they like.

Maybe so. Anecdotally though the nice guy I described to Crimson who had 0 success with the ladies despite the girl he really wanted sorta calling him her soulmate, he wasn't just super nice to her, he was to everyone. Literally if anyone he barely knew called him and said "my car broke down, please pick me up" he would drop what he was doing, maybe even skip class and go help them. He was legit super nice.
He had hobbies. He was a good conversationalist. But he was a doormat. It could be that he was so nice the girl might find it annoying like lol if they did go on a date he might have to leave it to go help someone lmao. But we will never know since he never got that date.
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Pepys Monster posted...

CrimsonRage posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

CrimsonRage posted...

So you're problem isn't because you're a "nice guy." You're problem is you have a specific type that doesn't seem interested in you. Now we're finally getting somewhere.

Well, who wants a boring girl? Unless she's really hot. Then maybe I could tolerate her boringness.

heh. I guess you're just not hot enough for these rave girls to tolerate your boringness then. :v

You could argue that I'm not hot enough, and perhaps you'd be right. But to call ME boring? That's asinine. I have crowds gather around me to watch my light shows.

This can't be serious right?
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Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

donkeyjack posted...

Women love nice guys. You are just pretending to be one.

No, dude. This is a boring cliche now. Im really nice in real life.

And you think that being a nice guy means that girls are obliged to have a relationship with you. I.E., you are not a nice guy.

I didn't say that, did I? If I did, show me where. You're putting words into my mouth so I can fit into this boring cliche narrative you're trying to push.

So what do you mean by 'being a nice guy' then?

Being friendly. Talking to girls and giving them hugs and good vibes.

So you expect nothing in return for doing this?

It'd be cool if I could meet a girl who wants to be my GF. Here's more cliche, inaccurate radfem rhetoric. "You expect something out of them!" Not really, other than friendship.
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Pepys Monster posted...

It'd be cool if I could meet a girl who wants to be my GF. Here's more cliche, inaccurate radfem rhetoric. "You expect something out of them!" Not really, other than friendship.

Now who is putting words in other's mouths? Now I'm a radical feminist because I don't agree with you? Second, these two things contradict.

KYOJIROKAGENUMA posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

CrimsonRage posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

CrimsonRage posted...

So you're problem isn't because you're a "nice guy." You're problem is you have a specific type that doesn't seem interested in you. Now we're finally getting somewhere.

Well, who wants a boring girl? Unless she's really hot. Then maybe I could tolerate her boringness.

heh. I guess you're just not hot enough for these rave girls to tolerate your boringness then. :v

You could argue that I'm not hot enough, and perhaps you'd be right. But to call ME boring? That's asinine. I have crowds gather around me to watch my light shows.

This can't be serious right?

At least once at every rave, I'll have 6-8 people huddle around to watch my shows.
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Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

It'd be cool if I could meet a girl who wants to be my GF. Here's more cliche, inaccurate radfem rhetoric. "You expect something out of them!" Not really, other than friendship.

Now who is putting words in other's mouths? Now I'm a radical feminist because I don't agree with you? Second, these two things contradict.

You could say I kind of expect friendship, because if I'm being nice and a girl doesn't even want to be my friend, that's kind of fucked up. But I'd like more than friendship.
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Pepys Monster posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

It'd be cool if I could meet a girl who wants to be my GF. Here's more cliche, inaccurate radfem rhetoric. "You expect something out of them!" Not really, other than friendship.

Now who is putting words in other's mouths? Now I'm a radical feminist because I don't agree with you? Second, these two things contradict.

You could say I kind of expect friendship, because if I'm being nice and a girl doesn't want to even be my friend, that's kind of fucked up. But I'd like more than friendship.

So I didn't put any words in your mouth. Do you have female friends in your life?

darkphoenix181 posted...

Darmik posted...

The point is that being nice isn't really a factor because everyone is nice to people they like.

Maybe so. Anecdotally though the nice guy I described to Crimson who had 0 success with the ladies despite the girl he really wanted sorta calling him her soulmate, he wasn't just super nice to her, he was to everyone. Literally if anyone he barely knew called him and said "my car broke down, please pick me up" he would drop what he was doing, maybe even skip class and go help them. He was legit super nice.
He had hobbies. He was a good conversationalist. But he was a doormat. It could be that he was so nice the girl might find it annoying like lol if they did go on a date he might have to leave it to go help someone lmao. But we will never know since he never got that date.

It doesn't surprise me you're mentioning classes. As I said earlier this stuff sorta ends after school. These people grow apart as they focus on their careers, partners and family.

The most important thing is having the right chemistry with someone. You can't force that with anyone. If that girl isn't feeling that spark it simply won't happen. It doesn't mean you're a failure. Even if I was single I would not be compatible with the majority of women out there.
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Pepys Monster posted...

KYOJIROKAGENUMA posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

CrimsonRage posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

CrimsonRage posted...

So you're problem isn't because you're a "nice guy." You're problem is you have a specific type that doesn't seem interested in you. Now we're finally getting somewhere.

Well, who wants a boring girl? Unless she's really hot. Then maybe I could tolerate her boringness.

heh. I guess you're just not hot enough for these rave girls to tolerate your boringness then. :v

You could argue that I'm not hot enough, and perhaps you'd be right. But to call ME boring? That's asinine. I have crowds gather around me to watch my light shows.

This can't be serious right?

At least once at every rave, I'll have 6-8 people huddle around to watch my shows.

But the might be on Molly or some other drug... I don't think you can infer how interesting you are from people who are intoxicated. I really don't think you can extrapolate the situation from light shows to meeting women... I mean are you doing light shows when you hit on girls?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ti86veZBjU
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Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

It'd be cool if I could meet a girl who wants to be my GF. Here's more cliche, inaccurate radfem rhetoric. "You expect something out of them!" Not really, other than friendship.

Now who is putting words in other's mouths? Now I'm a radical feminist because I don't agree with you? Second, these two things contradict.

You could say I kind of expect friendship, because if I'm being nice and a girl doesn't want to even be my friend, that's kind of fucked up. But I'd like more than friendship.

So I didn't put any words in your mouth. Do you have female friends in your life?

I have a ton of hot female friends.
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Pepys Monster posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

It'd be cool if I could meet a girl who wants to be my GF. Here's more cliche, inaccurate radfem rhetoric. "You expect something out of them!" Not really, other than friendship.

Now who is putting words in other's mouths? Now I'm a radical feminist because I don't agree with you? Second, these two things contradict.

You could say I kind of expect friendship, because if I'm being nice and a girl doesn't want to even be my friend, that's kind of fucked up. But I'd like more than friendship.

So I didn't put any words in your mouth. Do you have female friends in your life?

I have a ton of hot female friends.

And the nice guy thing doesn't make them interested in you?

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

It'd be cool if I could meet a girl who wants to be my GF. Here's more cliche, inaccurate radfem rhetoric. "You expect something out of them!" Not really, other than friendship.

Now who is putting words in other's mouths? Now I'm a radical feminist because I don't agree with you? Second, these two things contradict.

You could say I kind of expect friendship, because if I'm being nice and a girl doesn't want to even be my friend, that's kind of fucked up. But I'd like more than friendship.

So I didn't put any words in your mouth. Do you have female friends in your life?

I have a ton of hot female friends.

And the nice guy thing doesn't make them interested in you?

No, they want Chads.
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Pepys Monster posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

It'd be cool if I could meet a girl who wants to be my GF. Here's more cliche, inaccurate radfem rhetoric. "You expect something out of them!" Not really, other than friendship.

Now who is putting words in other's mouths? Now I'm a radical feminist because I don't agree with you? Second, these two things contradict.

You could say I kind of expect friendship, because if I'm being nice and a girl doesn't want to even be my friend, that's kind of fucked up. But I'd like more than friendship.

So I didn't put any words in your mouth. Do you have female friends in your life?

I have a ton of hot female friends.

So what do they say about you?
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From personal experience, "nice guys" are phenomenal at making strong PLATONIC relationships. If besties were currency, they'd be rich.

So being boring or uninteresting isn't what's the issue.

They typically lack that next level though. Usually from flirtatious behavior. Or giving a sexual spark.

I believe Darmik best describes it.
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cuttin_in_farm posted...

From personal experience, "nice guys" are phenomenal at making strong PLATONIC relationships. If besties were currency, they'd be rich.

So being boring or uninteresting isn't what's the issue.

They typically lack that next level though. Usually from flirtatious behavior. Or giving a sexual spark.

I believe Darmik best describes it.

You might actually be onto something, unlike the guys in here regurgitating inaccurate, cliche radfem garbage.
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Pepys Monster posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

It'd be cool if I could meet a girl who wants to be my GF. Here's more cliche, inaccurate radfem rhetoric. "You expect something out of them!" Not really, other than friendship.

Now who is putting words in other's mouths? Now I'm a radical feminist because I don't agree with you? Second, these two things contradict.

You could say I kind of expect friendship, because if I'm being nice and a girl doesn't want to even be my friend, that's kind of fucked up. But I'd like more than friendship.

So I didn't put any words in your mouth. Do you have female friends in your life?

I have a ton of hot female friends.

And the nice guy thing doesn't make them interested in you?

No, they want Chads.

So, again, you are saying that you expect them to be interested in you because you pretending to be a 'nice guy'. Your words, not mine.

CrimsonRage posted...

But you did, but she wasn't interesting enough for you. Which is fine. Your problem isn't that you can't get women. You're problem is that you have a very specific type that you might be incompatible with.

How could I be incompatible with fun party girls if I'm a fun party guy? That makes no sense.
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Tbh I'm kinda surprised there's someone in the rave scene that is whining about Chads.

It kinda seems like you'd need to be fit and confident to be in that scene no?
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Darmik posted...

Tbh I'm kinda surprised there's someone in the rave scene that is whining about Chads.

It kinda seems like you'd need to be fit and confident to be in that scene no?

I am fit and confident. I'm 5'9" and skinny, though. Chads are 6'0" and jacked.
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Darmik posted...

It doesn't surprise me you're mentioning classes. As I said earlier this stuff sorta ends after school. These people grow apart as they focus on their careers, partners and family.

I am probably older than you. If you come into an argument thinking the other guy is young and naive, you have defeated yourself.
The logic I am using doesn't require you to be older or younger than me, just someone who uses their intelligence to evaluate an argument.

All that you mentioned is irrelevant to the case as well. Did they have to get married and be soulmates? Of course not. It was just interesting the amount of time and flirting that seemed to happened without actual romantic undertones (no dating, no friends w\ benef, etc). Well, to people other than her it would be considered flirting. Not sure that she didn't realize it but you never know. She was the type that would do it on purpose, so that could be it.
Nevertheless, she is not the important part. You are focusing too much on the one girl. As I explained to you before, the one girl is meaningless. That girl shows that the guy can entertain a girl and can converse with a girl. He can go hours with just them hanging out together.
Yet in total he has issues with finding a woman.

Again, your goto was that he MUST be boring.

Darmik posted...

Is it when you talk to a boring female friend about the weather? Nope. It's that lingering eye contact. That smile. A flirty line that replays in your head. The feeling of recognizing signs that this girl finds me attractive.

A lot of 'nice guys' don't seem to consider this thing. For some reason they think persistent boredom is the way to go. It has nothing to do with being nice.

You can't divide people in nice and not nice categories. That guy you think is an a****** could very well treat his girlfriend like a Queen.

And now you change your tune to...oh..oh..oh

well um chemistry

Guess it shows my argument worked.
Sad that instead you want to pretend I must be a child instead of admit that logic trumped your bias.

And this is what I am trying to combat.
People will have this goto argument because they never thought about it. Anyone who challenges it must be a kid or that person who is a foreveraloner fake nice guy. It couldn't be that you are just wrong and never really explored what you said!
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Pepys Monster posted...

Darmik posted...

Tbh I'm kinda surprised there's someone in the rave scene that is whining about Chads.

It kinda seems like you'd need to be fit and confident to be in that scene no?

I am fit and confident. I'm 5'9" and skinny, though. Chads are 6'0" and jacked.

Fit, skinny guys don't usually have an issue attracting women. I'm pretty sure the rave scene is filled with guys with that body build lol
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cuttin_in_farm posted...

From personal experience, "nice guys" are phenomenal at making strong PLATONIC relationships. If besties were currency, they'd be rich.

So being boring or uninteresting isn't what's the issue.

They typically lack that next level though. Usually from flirtatious behavior. Or giving a sexual spark.

And now the gears have begun moving.

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/400-current-events/76182154/893729565

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/400-current-events/76182154/893730165

perhaps my work here is done

btw, darmilk didn't think that up, he changed his position after arguing with me
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/400-current-events/76182154/893729094

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/400-current-events/76182154/893729854

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/400-current-events/76182154/893730504
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darkphoenix181 posted...

I am probably older than you. If you come into an argument thinking the other guy is young and naive, you have defeated yourself.

You literally started talking about classes.

Honestly yes people who get hung up on the friendzone are generally young. If they aren't that's a bigger issue.

Not everyone is going to find you attractive. It's not a big deal. If it doesn't happen move on. There's no reason to get hung up on a girl that isn't interested in you.

darkphoenix181 posted...

And now you change your tune to...oh..oh..oh

well um chemistry

Guess it shows my argument worked.
Sad that instead you want to pretend I must be a child instead of admit that logic trumped your bias.

And this is what I am trying to combat.
People will have this goto argument because they never thought about it. Anyone who challenges it must be a kid or that person who is a foreveraloner fake nice guy. It couldn't be that you are just wrong and never really explored what you said!

You seem to think that 'boring' means you're a boring person in every single way.

It doesn't. It means she doesn't find you exciting enough in that specific circumstance to date you. That you're failing to create that spark with women. That's all.

The argument here has always been that the TC is blaming women for not liking nice guys. So I have no idea why you're in here whining about people presuming stuff that has nothing to do with the TC.
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CrimsonRage posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

CrimsonRage posted...

But you did, but she wasn't interesting enough for you. Which is fine. Your problem isn't that you can't get women. You're problem is that you have a very specific type that you might be incompatible with.

How could I be incompatible with fun party girls if I'm a fun party guy? That makes no sense.

I don't know. There's probably more about yourself that you haven't told us. Maybe you're not as fun/nice as you think you are. You haven't done a good job of showing that itt tbh

Well, I've been chatting with a hot girl on Snapchat this whole time. So I must be more interesting than most of you are giving me credit for.
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Pepys Monster posted...

Well, I've been chatting with a hot girl on Snapchat this whole time. So I must be more interesting than most of you are giving me credit for.

So have you asked her out?
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Darmik posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Well, I've been chatting with a hot girl on Snapchat this whole time. So I must be more interesting than most of you are giving me credit for.

So have you asked her out?

No.
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Pepys Monster posted...

Darmik posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Well, I've been chatting with a hot girl on Snapchat this whole time. So I must be more interesting than most of you are giving me credit for.

So have you asked her out?

No.

Why not?
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Darmik posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Darmik posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

Well, I've been chatting with a hot girl on Snapchat this whole time. So I must be more interesting than most of you are giving me credit for.

So have you asked her out?

No.

Why not?

I won't succeed. She's hot and could date a Chad. Why would she choose me?
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Pepys Monster posted...

I won't succeed. She's hot and could date a Chad. Why would she choose me?

You don't think that maybe this attitude is why you don't have a girlfriend?
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Women like dominance in men they're sexually attracted to.

It's that simple.
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I equate nice with being easygoing, like I'm just gonna be me and be honest and whatever happens happens. I might be a bit of a 'jerk' sometimes just to 'raise the bar' a little but its all in the spirit of good fun. When I hear/see stuff like 'this nice guy stuff doesn't work' I think of a person who doesn't know who they are as a person and is not comfortable with themselves. That is something that women pick up on right away, believe me. You can be nice if thats who you are AND be confident.
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darkphoenix181 posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

You can be nice and interesting,

what is interesting? being funny? there are plenty of nice guys who are a riot

define interesting

I'm sure not being oversensitive factors in as well, but probably a combination of "your own person" (nobody respects ass kissers), having confidence, the ability to entertain, and being at least acceptable-looking are good characteristics to have.

Some will also confuse people tolerating their trying too hard as being popular when they are not. A good indicator of this is if people go out of their way to interact with you or not, or simply enjoy your presence and what you add by being there.

Interesting people can sometimes control a crowd, for example. Ultimately I guess it's sort of just being "cool."
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Pepys Monster posted...

I won't succeed. She's hot and could date a Chad. Why would she choose me?

You won't know until you find out by trying.

This is part of the problem many men face. The fear of rejection is greater than the actual rejection itself. In your mind, with your overthinking and doubt, the war is already over before the first battle even begins.

Or maybe you aren't afraid of rejection and simply won't pursue unless victory is guaranteed. Many things in life require some level of risk. If you don't take any risks, you won't achieve as much potential as taking little to no risks at all.
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Xenozoa425 posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

I won't succeed. She's hot and could date a Chad. Why would she choose me?

You won't know until you find out by trying.

This is part of the problem many men face. The fear of rejection is greater than the actual rejection itself. In your mind, with your overthinking and doubt, the war is already over before the first battle even begins.

Or maybe you aren't afraid of rejection and simply won't pursue unless victory is guaranteed. Many things in life require some level of risk. If you don't take any risks, you won't achieve as much potential as taking little to no risks at all.

Here are just some of the hurdles I'd have to get through.

1) Get her to say yes to a date
2) Get her to actually show up instead of ghosting me before the date
3) Get her to actually like me
4) Not get ghosted afterwards
5) Get her to say yes to a second date
6) Get her to actually show up on the second date
7) Get at least a kiss by now
8) Not get ghosted after the second date

With tall, jacked Chads always a Tinder swipe away, and lurking around every corner, the odds are against me.
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Xenozoa425 posted...

Pepys Monster posted...

I won't succeed. She's hot and could date a Chad. Why would she choose me?

You won't know until you find out by trying.

This is part of the problem many men face. The fear of rejection is greater than the actual rejection itself. In your mind, with your overthinking and doubt, the war is already over before the first battle even begins.

Or maybe you aren't afraid of rejection and simply won't pursue unless victory is guaranteed. Many things in life require some level of risk. If you don't take any risks, you won't achieve as much potential as taking little to no risks at all.

You're right, but it's not worth bothering if rejection is basically a sure thing. That's especially true if it's somebody you're friends with to some extent or you want to see them again.

The two biggest problems are "not trying" and "going for a girl out of your league." What makes it tricky is that for many single people here it seems like those two are the only options they have because they're so out of touch with how things work, and age only makes it harder... If you're 25-30, etc., and have the experience of somebody that's 14, it's going to be obvious unless you've found a way to gain relationship maturity and perspective outside of actual interaction (which is still possible).

I know I sound like kind of a dick on this board in general, but I'm trying to deliver hard truths. Those are more constructive than "love and support" because they're not a good motivator for this stuff. If you want to get a girlfriend, you need to just befriend lots of women and get used to talking to them and not be a creep then go from there. It's a numbers game. That's a good first step... Even just online friends, if you have no confidence or aren't a looker.

I was a dork until I was about 16, but spent my late teens through mid twenties as a relatively handsome, desirable guy. I've still got some hilarious ultra-Chad-style pics that survived the era, lol... So I know what it's like on both sides of the situation, and while looks open doors, being awkward can close them just as easily. Figuring out what works and what doesn't is important, but sadly there's no universal answer. You just need to fail a lot and make sure you're learning.

I reiterate though: there's no point in going after a 10 if you're a 3. Be realistic.
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Pepys Monster posted...

Here are just some of the hurdles I'd have to get through.

1) Get her to say yes to a date
2) Get her to actually show up instead of ghosting me before the date
3) Get her to actually like me
4) Not get ghosted afterwards
5) Get her to say yes to a second date
6) Get her to actually show up on the second date
7) Get at least a kiss by now
8) Not get ghosted after the second date

With tall, jacked Chads always a Tinder swipe away, and lurking around every corner, the odds are against me.

If you think the girl is worth going after, then the only thing stopping you from pursuing her is yourself. Getting along with women is not difficult. It just takes time and practice. The more you do it, the better you'll get, and each failure is an opportunity to learn and reflect on the mistakes and make the next situation better. Also keep your expectations low. If you have this long list of criteria that you think you need to fill by a certain time, then you will fail. Different people move into and on with relationships at different rates. With one girl, you could take weeks to simply go on one or two dates. With another girl, maybe she has "one night stand" written all over her.

TheCyborgNinja posted...

You're right, but it's not worth bothering if rejection is basically a sure thing. That's especially true if it's somebody you're friends with to some extent or you want to see them again.

The two biggest problems are "not trying" and "going for a girl out of your league." What makes it tricky is that for many single people here it seems like those two are the only options they have because they're so out of touch with how things work, and age only makes it harder... If you're 25-30, etc., and have the experience of somebody that's 14, it's going to be obvious unless you've found a way to gain relationship maturity and perspective outside of actual interaction (which is still possible).

I know I sound like kind of a dick on this board in general, but I'm trying to deliver hard truths. Those are more constructive than "love and support" because they're not a good motivator for this stuff. If you want to get a girlfriend, you need to just befriend lots of women and get used to talking to them and not be a creep then go from there. It's a numbers game. That's a good first step... Even just online friends, if you have no confidence or aren't a looker.

I was a dork until I was about 16, but spent my late teens through mid twenties as a relatively handsome, desirable guy. I've still got some hilarious ultra-Chad-style pics that survived the era, lol... So I know what it's like on both sides of the situation, and while looks open doors, being awkward can close them just as easily. Figuring out what works and what doesn't is important, but sadly there's no universal answer. You just need to fail a lot and make sure you're learning.

I reiterate though: there's no point in going after a 10 if you're a 3. Be realistic.

Very well said. I've had my share of hurdles as well. I'm 24 and only met my first girlfriend nearly 2 years ago, and haven't had much experience or success beforehand, but my journey with my gf has been an amazing experience so far. I'd say it was worth putting up with years of rejection and loneliness. Once you find that person you click with, there's no better feeling. You just have to keep trying.
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Pretty sure TC is just trolling everyone.