Current Events > New Swedish party poll.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Election year in 2018. Yeehaw baby!

The Conservatives back 0.7% after growing during October and November. The Greens bounce from 4% to 5% placing them on safer ground. The Christian Democrats remain below the 4% threshold where they have been most of this term.

28.6% - Socialdemocrats
19.0% - Conservatives
16.6% - Nationalists
11.0% - Neoliberals
7.3% - Far Left
5.5% - Liberals
5.0% - Greens
3.6% - Christian Democrats

https://www.aftonbladet.se/senastenytt/ttnyheter/inrikes/article26789613.ab
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Now that the socialists have betrayed the whole "tough on immigration" stance with the recent deal, i'm waiting for them to plummet.
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ROBANN_88 posted...

Now that the socialists have betrayed the whole "tough on immigration" stance with the recent deal, i'm waiting for them to plummet.

I want us to keep the new immigration mindset but lets be honest about this latest deal. Calling it a betrayal of the whole immigration stance is hyperbole and dishonest.

Up to 9000 18-year olds who arrived in the country before November 2015 and who had their asylum case tried after they had turned 18 due to long wait times will be able to get a temporary residency permit if they are going to school or have a legal fulltime job and havent committed any crimes while in Sweden.
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So because they waited a while, everyone gets an automatic free pass.
Imagine if it worked like that for anything else, like Building permits, Gun licenses or mining permits.
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ROBANN_88 posted...

So because they waited a while, everyone gets an automatic free pass.
Imagine if it worked like that for anything else, like Building permits, Gun licenses or mining permits.

Why do you keep saying this bill is a lot more generous than it actually is? Its true that the Greens wanted a blanket amnesty for all orphaned immigrant children who arrived before November 2015 (which is when the new immigration laws began to be implemented) but the SocDems renegotiated it into the real bill which give a specific group of youngsters a 12 month residency permit if they have begun to engage in higher studies or begun being a tax payer by working. There are very specific demands you need to fulfill to be given a temporary permit.

Your simile where you compare this to giving out gun licenses unchecked doesnt make sense to me.

And lets not forget the tiny detail that this bill is just a bill. It has to pass a majority vote in Riksdagen like other bills.
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BalanceLost posted...

Calling it a betrayal of the whole immigration stance is hyperbole and dishonest.

well, it's either that, or they were just lying about being tough on immigration from the very start.

remember when Lfven said, after the Stockholm attack, something about No meaning No, and those who didn't have asylum reasons have to leave. at that time, i was hopeful he would go through with that, but apparently that was all bullshit.

cause now, the Swedish immigration system is instead; "No" means "Maybe". "Maybe" can mean "yes", or it can mean "No" for a short while before it turns into a "Yes" which then can be a "Maybe", and MiljPartiet suddenly think they have a reason to exist again.
not to mention that imost who get a "No" just hide and don't leave anyway.

it's a real shame that they prove to be completely untrustworthy and flip-flop on the issue so often.
i would prefer not to vote for SD, since it's very apparent that it has a large % of idiots in the party, but it seems like they somehow remain to be the only ones who actually stay on the same path on the subject through it all.

if we're lucky, maybe they, Moderaterna and whoever else can get this whole shitshow to fall in the vote.
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BalanceLost posted...

Your simile where you compare this to giving out gun licenses unchecked doesnt make sense to me.

my point was that the entire basis for this bills existence is "well, they had to wait a pretty long time, cause a lot came in at once, and we couldn't handle it"
not something real like "the security in Afghanistan has worsened" or "we have to do it cause of law X"
i was pointing out how ridiculous that would be if any other part of the government worked like that

also
BalanceLost posted...

orphaned immigrant children

i don't know about these specific people, but it's pretty common knowledge now that a lot of people who claim to be children, then turn out to be way older.
but that's a whole other, though related discussion
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ROBANN_88 posted...

BalanceLost posted...

Your simile where you compare this to giving out gun licenses unchecked doesnt make sense to me.

my point was that the entire basis for this bills existence is "well, they had to wait a pretty long time, cause a lot came in at once, and we couldn't handle it"
not something real like "the security in Afghanistan has worsened" or "we have to do it cause of law X"
i was pointing out how ridiculous that would be if any other part of the government worked like that

also
BalanceLost posted...

orphaned immigrant children

i don't know about these specific people, but it's pretty common knowledge now that a lot of people who claim to be children, then turn out to be way older.
but that's a whole other, though related discussion

The wait time argument is a direct result of asylum laws though. There are international regulations about quick assessments and the cases from before November 2015 have failed to meet those standards. The SocDems have been ignoring asylum laws and trying to circumvent them by having our border controls take place on the Danish side of the border for example. And the security situation in Afghanistan has been depated for months but the SocDems have deported youngsters there anyway and will keep doing so until July 2018 at the very least since that is the earliest implementation of the bill if it passes through Riksdagen.

And there are other legal areas where wait times are a thing like vrdgarantin and hktningar :P

About immigrants pretending to be children: Hence why the medical age assessments which are more likely to say you are older than you actually are than the opposite. They have been done on these youngsters.

And tough immigration laws is not the same as completely getting rid of all immigrants. The laws implemented since late 2015 are tough but sensible and economically sound. If Sverigedemokraterna gained power and implemented all their promised immigration laws, then our economy would tank from isolationism rather than be booming like it is now. Half of our GDP comes from exports and SDs policies would kill our trade.
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BalanceLost posted...

If Sverigedemokraterna gained power and implemented all their promised immigration laws, then our economy would tank from isolationism rather than be booming like it is now. Half of our GDP comes from exports and SDs policies would kill our trade.

maybe i'm being slow here, but how does immigration policy effect exports?
our biggest export markets are countries like Germany, Norway, Finland, USA etc.
how is lowered immigration rates from the Middle East and Africa gonna effect that?

is this one of those "In the long term, refugee immigration is an economic benefit" spiels that are actually bullshit?

BalanceLost posted...

The laws implemented since late 2015 are tough but sensible

but as they've just proven, all it thakes is for MP to put a little bit of pressure on them, and a few news interviews with some crying Afghans for them to completely toss all of that out the window
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ROBANN_88 posted...

BalanceLost posted...

If Sverigedemokraterna gained power and implemented all their promised immigration laws, then our economy would tank from isolationism rather than be booming like it is now. Half of our GDP comes from exports and SDs policies would kill our trade.

maybe i'm being slow here, but how does immigration policy effect exports?
our biggest export markets are countries like Germany, Norway, Finland, USA etc.
how is lowered immigration rates from the Middle East and Africa gonna effect that? hell, how is that gonna effect even what little exports to MENA that exists to begin with?

is this one of those "In the long term, refugee immigration is an economic benefit" spiels that are actually bullshit?

BalanceLost posted...

The laws implemented since late 2015 are tough but sensible

but as they've just proven, all it thakes is for MP to put a little bit of pressure on them, and a few news interviews with some crying Afghans for them to completely toss all of that out the window

Please, if SD representatives themselves are to be believed then getting rid of immigration from outside the EU is just the first step. Their end goal is for us to leave the EU AND the Single Market Zone, this was SDs main focus during the last EU election, so they can shut the door on EU-immigration. And shutting that door is what would cripple our economy. They have also strongly opposed the very beneficial deepened military partnership the SocDems signed with the US. kesson himself blasted it in a debate and said Sweden should only have military partnerships with the other Nordic countries. That isnt an immigration issue per se though, but still very relevant to our position in the world.

And you are saying that this particular deal is getting rid of all the changed immigration laws which isnt true and you know that. Which is why I debate with you - the world isnt black or white, everything or nothing.
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BalanceLost posted...

That isnt an immigration issue per se though, but still very relevant to our position in the world.

your post made it seem like you were claiming the two were interconnected. "reduce imigration, and trade will naturally collapse"
glad we got that misunderstanding straigthened out, then.

BalanceLost posted...

And you are saying that this particular deal is getting rid of all the changed immigration laws which isnt true and you know that.

no. what they are doing is blocking the old laws. ignoring them, making them irrelevant whwnever they wish, but still present.
so they can turn to some people and say "see, we're tough on immigration, give us your vote".
but then turn to other people and say "see, we're letting them stay, we're a humanitarian superpower with sunshine and rainbows, give us your vote"

EDIT: It could also just be that SocDem lack any kind of backbone, and letting MP make all the decisions. I honestly can't tell which alternative would be worse.
Nevertheless, the end result is still the same; that they can't be trusted worth shit
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