Board 8 > Save My Favorite Final Fantasy Characters XIX: Discussion Topic Part 6 [smfffc]

(+) Yeah! (+)

also the Lifestream dive is one of the best moments in the entire series so I'll always love Cloud and Tifa for that part of the game alone
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Well Vanille's reaction and motivations etc are different than Tifa's or Auron's even if they have similar net effects so I don't necessarily think not minding Vanille for it and getting on Tifa or Auron for it is necessarily a double standard or anything.

But yeah Drak blowing it out of proportion relative to how I took it is certainly possible too-- it's been like 15 years since I've played FFVII at all so I just sorta defer to you guys on specifics for it except for the stuff I remember pretty vividly or have looked up more recently.
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Eh, I think Tifa and Vanille have similar motivations for saying nothing.

Auron says nothing so they won't be completely reliant on him for everything and so they can come to their own conclusions and form their own opinions without him biasing them. He doesn't actually mind if they come to the same conclusion as he did or not.
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Yeah, I looked it up. I mixed up the line with the Lifestream dive later. But she still does undermine him: Cloud asserts "I'm Cloud of Nibelheim" and she tells him "No, that's not true, Cloud." Then she kinda goes to pieces (and he follows suit).

Cloud
"...Tifa? Is Sephiroth right?"

(She doesn't speak for a long time.)

Tifa
"Cloud..."

Cloud
"Why are you so scared? Don't worry about me. I'm all right."
"No matter how confused I am, I'll never believe a word that
Sephiroth says."

(He looks at the ground.)

Cloud
"It's true that sometimes I can't figure out who I am."
"There's a lot of things muddled up in my memories."
"But, Tifa......."
"But you said, 'Long time no see, Cloud' right?"
"Those words will always support me."
"I am the one you grew up with. I'm Cloud of Nibelheim."
"No matter how much I lose faith in myself, that is the truth."

(He looks up at Tifa.)

Cloud
"That's why you shouldn't be so scared."
"No matter what anyone else says to me, it's your attitude that
counts..."

(He turns away. Tifa turns back towards him. She shakes her head.)

Tifa
"No, that's not true, Cloud......"

(He shakes his head sadly and turns to face Tifa.)

Cloud
"What's not? Aren't I the same Cloud you grew up with?"

Tifa
"That's not what I meant... I don't know how to say it..."
"Cloud, I need some time... Just give me a little time..."
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Gatarix posted...

Cloud asserts "I'm Cloud of Nibelheim" and she tells him "No, that's not true, Cloud."

seems like that's what Cloud seems to think she means and she says that's not what she meant
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It seems like that's literally what she's saying, though? Like, Cloud is still holding firm in his belief in himself, then Tifa denies it, then she backpedals but it's too late. Cloud's whole speech is about how he's Cloud of Nibelheim so I'm not sure what else she would be denying.
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She is saying that it isn't only her opinion that matters. She doesn't want that burden and wants Cloud to believe in himself. She is replying to his last line.
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I mean, she doesn't say that's not true until he says she doesn't have to be scared and her opinion of him is all that matters but Cloud jumps to the wrong conclusion and she doesn't know how to fix it

It's kind of unclear what she's saying isn't true. I don't think Tifa ever falls for Sephiroth's assertion that Cloud was created by Hojo, so I don't think she's trying to deny that he's her childhood friend or anything.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

She is saying that it isn't only her opinion that matters. She doesn't want that burden and wants Cloud to believe in himself. She is replying to his last line.

hmm, that's possible

but if that's what she meant, why not just explain it instead of "I don't know how to say it" and "I need some time"

the fact that she won't clarify is what makes me think it was something damning that slipped out
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Maybe it will be more clear in the remake

I think she's probably afraid she'll say something else wrong if she just speaks spontaneously, so she decides she needs to be more careful or maybe just not say anything else for the time being because she realizes she can only make things worse right now.
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"But you said, 'Long time no see, Cloud' right?"

Obviously this is the part she is fairly certain didn't happen and felt she had to speak up against. For the rest of it Tifa doesn't know what did or didn't happen in the reactor when Zack and Sephiroth went in alone; if Sephiroth is one of these Ancient thingies; why he burned down the village; what happened to Cloud's mom; how she survived; how she ended up in Midgar; what happened to Sephiroth; why Cloud knows the exact contents of her bedroom ect. As far as Tifa could see Cloud knew everything Tifa did and more, and the stuff about Sephiroth being an Ancient seeking the Promised Land and Jenova was getting independent confirmation. Tifa DID actually get knocked on the head and fell into a coma for months at Nibelheim, she had no reason to think her memories were the reliable ones not Cloud's, until Sephiroth spoke up about it.

Vanille on the other hand just didn't want Sazh yelling at her, end of motivation.
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who would have thought, 20 years later we'd still be debating the nuances of the ff7 story
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The Mana Sword posted...

who would have thought, 20 years later we'd still be debating the nuances of the ff7 story

it's quite possibly the greatest game ever made for a reason
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I replayed ff7 for the first time in years recently and the withholding info thing didn't bother me much this time around. Tifa's confused and doesn't understand how Cloud knows what he does when it clashes with her perspective of events. It's understandable that she handled things the way she does, if not necessarily ideal.

Tifa herself is solid , probably #5 on my ff7 ranks but I really like those top 5. The Cloud/Tifa lifestream stuff is indeed A+.
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honestly I zoned out that part of the game because it was just an annoying execution of the scene and really slowed the game down for me
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No STATS today, but we do have Best Newcomer stats now!

1st - Cecil Harvey (1/40)
2nd - Lulu (1/45)
3rd - Porom (14/50)
4th - Ramza Beoulve (16/55)
5th - Reno (1/60)
6th - Seymour Guado (35/65)
7th - Black Mage (4/70)
8th - Balthier Bunanza (1/75)
9th - Palom (5/75)
10th - Fujin (6/75)
11th - Setzer Gabbiani (26/75)
12th - Ultros (53/75)
13th - Lightning (2/75)
14th - Cloud of Darkness (13/102)
15th - Red Mage (7/100)
16th - Gaius Van Baelsar (37/100)
17th - Edea Lee (13/100)
18th - Lumina (21/100)
19th - Minwu (???/100)
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Well, at least Ramza was once best newcomer >_>
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well seven of those newcomers aren't in the contest this year and several of them haven't been in for a long time so yeah just being best newcomer doesn't guarantee much...!
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LeonhartFour posted...

The Mana Sword posted...

who would have thought, 20 years later we'd still be debating the nuances of the ff7 story

it's quite possibly the greatest game ever made for a reason

Lmao ok cool down bro
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it's shocking that Eddv wouldn't get that joke
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VeryInsane posted...

Well, at least Ramza was once best newcomer >_>

do you really want to be in the same group as Palom and Porom
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what even lead to that
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Xuxon posted...

VeryInsane posted...

Well, at least Ramza was once best newcomer >_>

do you really want to be in the same group as Palom and Porom

i think i'm one of the few people that like Palom and Porom
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I guess you can say Balthier and Reno both have bragging rights and I guess Lulu too.
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cyan1001 posted...

Xuxon posted...

VeryInsane posted...

Well, at least Ramza was once best newcomer >_>

do you really want to be in the same group as Palom and Porom

i think i'm one of the few people that like Palom and Porom

I like them too.

I also like Tellah and Edward though.

Really you wanna talk about great casts, FuSoRa aside 4 has a great one
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You know, I didn't ask, but was the Squall save free, @Xuxon?
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Porom is decent

Palom is junk
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Eddv posted...

Really you wanna talk about great casts, FuSoRa aside 4 has a great one

Eddv posted...

ok cool down bro

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Fusoya is prob upper two thirds of the FF4 cast
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I generally like IVs cast, but I probably have the most nostalgia for it given it was my first mainline FF
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Edge, Yang and I guess Rydia are ok. Cid P's design is decent. Kain gets Liam O'Brien voice in the DS remake. That's about all the positives I can say

hey bot rank these

Cecil Harvey
Lulu
Porom
Ramza Beoulve
Reno
Seymour Guado
Black Mage
Balthier Bunanza
Palom
Fujin
Setzer Gabbiani
Ultros
Lightning
Cloud of Darkness
Red Mage
Gaius Van Baelsar
Edea Lee
Lumina
Minwu
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Yea I'm fine with Fursona, not too much I dislike in the cast tbh. Just nothing that SUPER stands out for me
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pjbasis posted...

You know, I didn't ask, but was the Squall save free, Xuxon?

yeah, if it wasn't i would have said something
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Fusoya, who is basically a non character who has a funny dead sprite, is better than

Rosa
Palom
Porom
Tellah

It's an ok cast but prob low tier overall. Rosa and the twins are heavy and the good characters aren't strong enough to lift en.
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oh right I kicked bot out of this topic :(
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its ok, bot wants time to play ffxiv anyway
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TBH if you like old school JRPGs as a whole you probably dont mind the shallowness of IVs characters. Its simply not a game driven by its characters, they are more just a vehicle for the plot and to fight enemies in game.
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FFIV's cast is mostly decent. I definitely couldn't go so far as to say "great" though.
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ff4 is all about taking the plot seriously for the first time except not knowing how to actually do it - it's full of neat ideas with awful execution ala cecil becoming a paladin
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X_Dante_X posted...

its ok, bot wants time to play ffxiv anyway

hey dante im gonna play this for the first time on friday what is the most fun class to play up to level 35
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man idk, not knight

you can play them all (even on the same character) since they have separate levels
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I might only have the one save since I'm gonna have my first day of work at my new job in a bit!!
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LeonhartFour posted...

12. DARKSTATS

CI - 1/40 [179-155 vs. Zidane]
CII - 3/45
CIII - 10/50
CIV - 5/55
CV - 5/60
CVI - 13/65
CVII - 19/70
CVIII - 6/75
CIX - 29/75
CX - 4/75
CXI - 33/75
CXII - 19/75
CXIII - 15/75
CXIV - 29/102
CXV - 11/100
CXVI - 24/100
CXVII - 5/100
CXVIII - 5/100
CXIX - 12/100

As the very first champion, Cecil boasts an impressive resume. He has sixteen top 25 finishes in nineteen contests, with nine of those being top tens. He's also the only member of the Every Contest Club who's never finished in the bottom half. His worst finish in any contest is 33rd. As you might expect, his numbers are among the very best. With this performance, Cecil bumps up from 84.31% to 84.56%, very narrowly falling short of passing Red Mage for second place (all he needed was one more round).

Cecil has been very good in the New Era, too. There, he moves up from 86.31% to 86.76%, staying at 4th place. In the Old Era, he was at 83.55%, good for 3rd place between Terra and Celes.

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i'm still not positive if that is a man or a woman

I played Theatrhythm believing Minwu was a woman

more like Minwhoops
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LeonhartFour posted...

lefty already knew ahead of time

there's a reason why you haven't seen him since the round ended

I mean, if I had wanted top 2 badly enough, I could have sold out and NR'd like crazy, but that would have come at the expense of killing Minwu

I don't really see a meaningful difference between 2nd and 3rd when it's a matter of hundredths of a percent!
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hundredths are all the difference in the world in competition
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@Eddv I intend to try and get Shelke and some others nommed and get them a decent debut into stats next year so don't count on me for Minwu.
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okie dokie - maybe Minwu is oneish and doneish after all
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