Current Events > C\D: alot of old classic movies were carried by their actor but not anymore

(+) Yeah! (+)

If you think about it, replace movies with Arnold, Stallone, Harrison Ford with other actors and those movies would probably not be very good.

Hercules in New York without Arnold wouldn't be very good. Even Terminator without Arnold despite having a good script probably would be trash.
Last Action hero, carried. True Lies, carried. Running Man, actually this one might have worked without Arnold but wouldn't be classic.
Air Force One, Harrison Ford made the movie. Indianna Jones was a successful franchise because of him.

What is odd about this is that I don't really see that working today.

The Rock is one of the biggest actors and yet the movies he is in are usually very bad. Tbh, the best movies he was in were the Fast and Furious ones and they had a slew of high profile actors. Maybe you could say Vin Deisel carried that franchise but it was established many years ago.

Jlaw didn't make the Hunger Games, the Hunger Games made Jlaw.

Kinda odd

C\D ?
---

C
---

D

People will say the same thing about current movies down the road

NewerMernardi posted...

D

People will say the same thing about current movies down the road

I doubt anyone will be watching that Hercules movie the Rock was in years from now.

Alternatively, they will still be watching Arnold's Hercules movie.
---

Casablanca with no Humphrey Bogart
---

iron man?

everybody was fairly forgettable except for one person.

I doubt anyone will be watching that Hercules movie the Rock was in years from now.

i recently watched this actually for the 2nd time since its release.
---

darkphoenix181 posted...

NewerMernardi posted...

D

People will say the same thing about current movies down the road

I doubt anyone will be watching that Hercules movie the Rock was in years from now.

Alternatively, they will still be watching Arnold's Hercules movie.

People will go back and watch the good movies. Hercules with the Rock was trash, or at least looked like trash.

TC, are you confusing Hercules and Conan the Barbarian?
---

AsucaHayashi posted...

iron man?

everybody was fairly forgettable except for one person.

This one is interesting.

Because Marvel has proven it can take basically no name actors and make them.

RDJ wasn't a no name actor though and he is playing himself.

Although, he wasn't a huge A lister I don't think until Iron Man.
---

Arnold Hercules movie is called Hercules in New York

seriously? you guys never seen it?
---

Did you just imply Hercules in New York was good?
---

darkphoenix181 posted...

Arnold Hercules movie is called Hercules in New York

seriously? you guys never seen it?

Never knew it was a thing.
---

You're really implying half of these movies weren't being made solely BECAUSE arnold was a big star...
---

Lawrence of Arabia without peter o'toole (his name is penis twice) is just a movie about a guy getting raped in the desert.
---

So... the Hobbit sucked because no Sean Astin?
Makes sense.

darkphoenix181 posted...

AsucaHayashi posted...

iron man?

everybody was fairly forgettable except for one person.

This one is interesting.

Because Marvel has proven it can take basically no name actors and make them.

RDJ wasn't a no name actor though and he is playing himself.

Although, he wasn't a huge A lister I don't think until Iron Man.

Iron Man was Downey's comeback. He was popular after Chaplin.
---

einegutePerson posted...

You're really implying half of these movies weren't being made solely BECAUSE arnold was a big star...

the bad movies the Rock is in are made basically because he is a big star

btw, Hercules in New York was Arnold's first movie

tbh, he wasn't even a big star until Terminator

Hercules in New York 1969 Hercules Credited as Arnold Strong[6]
The Long Goodbye 1973 Hood in Augustine's office (uncredited)
Happy Anniversary and Goodbye 1974 Rico
Stay Hungry 1976 Joe Santo Golden Globe Award for New Star of the Year Actor
Pumping Iron 1977 Himself
The Villain 1979 Handsome Stranger
Scavenger Hunt Lars
The Comeback 1980 Himself Documentary
Conan the Barbarian 1982 Conan
Conan the Destroyer 1984 Conan
The Terminator T-800 / Terminator

from wikipedia

so Arnold basically MADE Terminator

what movie did The Rock make?

or other actors of our time?

though I guess some might argue Terminator made him....

but I wonder if that could really be true since I doubt the movie would work with any other actor all that well

hmm...
---

einegutePerson posted...

You're really implying half of these movies weren't being made solely BECAUSE arnold was a big star...

Hercules in New York was his first movie. His accent was so bad he was dubbed over. And it wasn't a good movie anyway
---

yea I think it is true to say Arnold made the Terminator and not the other way around

why?

because newer Terminator movies using other actors as Terminator have come out and they didn't work very well

their terminators are entirely forgettable

only one with another memorable Terminator was the guy from Terminator 2

the role of cold guy with no personality is hard to make an impact on

and yet Arnold somehow did

weird
---

The only movie that I would call The Rock's is Moana to be quite honest
---

I don't think this dynamic has especially changed.

People don't watch John Wick for the intriguing plot. They watch it because Keanu Reeves somehow nailed the part.

I think there are certain actors who will always be bigger than the movie they're in, and vice versa.
---

@pinky0926 posted...

I don't think this dynamic has especially changed.

People don't watch John Wick for the intriguing plot. They watch it because Keanu Reeves somehow nailed the part.

I think there are certain actors who will always be bigger than the movie they're in, and vice versa.

oh good point

I forgot about John Wick

however, John Wick is even considered an anomaly to modern film

infact, it has been described as a throwback 80s action flick

so that kinda works for the premise of this thread rather than against it

like people go to wick thinking "they don't really make movies like this anymore"

google john wick 80s action and you see that tons of people say this
---

Kaname_Madoka posted...

The only movie that I would call The Rock's is Moana to be quite honest

he has had plenty of movies that were his

problem is they were mostly not very good or memorable

the films he was memorable in and the movie was good, weren't his films
---

darkphoenix181 posted...

Kaname_Madoka posted...

The only movie that I would call The Rock's is Moana to be quite honest

he has had plenty of movies that were his

problem is they were mostly not very good or memorable

the films he was memorable in and the movie was good, weren't his films

True
---

darkphoenix181 posted...

@pinky0926 posted...

I don't think this dynamic has especially changed.

People don't watch John Wick for the intriguing plot. They watch it because Keanu Reeves somehow nailed the part.

I think there are certain actors who will always be bigger than the movie they're in, and vice versa.

oh good point

I forgot about John Wick

however, John Wick is even considered an anomaly to modern film

infact, it has been described as a throwback 80s action flick

so that kinda works for the premise of this thread rather than against it

like people go to wick thinking "they don't really make movies like this anymore"

google john wick 80s action and you see that tons of people say this

I certainly think there's something in the idea those old school action movies aren't really in style anymore and don't work for modern cinema. I mean guys like Jason Statham and The Rock are just doing the same style of movies that Harrison Ford and Arnie were doing back in the 80s and 90s, it just feels kinda old fashioned and derivative now. That's also why the latest Indiana jones movies totally flopped, imo.

That said I don't know about the idea that movies are these days less about stars and more about substance. I think Johnny Depp carries his movies way more than they carry him. Same for Leo, and Robert Downey Jnr, and all the A listers pretty much.
---

D.

I think a lot of old movies were carried by their directors. Excellent actors work constantly. They make movies, and the overwhelming majority of their work goes forgotten. What makes some of these old classics stick in our minds has as much to do with the person playing as it does the construction of the frame, camera angles, how footage is pieced together to make a scene, a consistent tone across multiple elements, the lighting, sound design, set design, practical effects design, etc. Most of those decisions were made by the directors, and they still are.

You don't remember Fight Club because of the star power of Brad Pitt, Edward Norton, and Helena Bonham-Carter. You remember David Fincher. His lighting choices, his use of contrast emphasizes cuts and bruises whenever they're in frame, his low uneasy electric hum in the back of every scene that persists throughout the movie, and his teams dynamic camera work in capturing the angles he needed to play games with our perspective. That's all the director. Hell, they even decide which performances to keep and how to edit it to best tell the story as they have interpreted it.
---

How could you forget predator tc?
---

Vin Diesel can and has carried movies and franchises.
---

Asherlee10 posted...

KILBOTz posted...

Lawrence of Arabia without peter o'toole (his name is penis twice) is just a movie about a guy getting raped in the desert.

This opinion is going to haunt me, but I couldn't watch Lawrence of Arabia BECAUSE of Peter O'Toole.

His demeanor irked me so much I've only made it 30 minutes into the movie.

what the fuck is your problem, huh? getting all antagonistic with me. I thought we were friends.
---

InTheEyesOfFire posted...

How could you forget predator tc?

Predator would've been a hit regardless because of the alien.
---