Current Events > in response to gamers upset at EA, analyst says game should cost more

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mvillanueva88 11/22/17 12:49:23 PM #51:	Just make good games and people will buy. Sure the price of games hasn't changed but neither has the game. The Call of duty franchise has been the same game with different skin since modern warfare. --- Sam and Robert are the hitch-hikers on the road. --Necronomicon incantation (The Evil Dead) <cite>mvillanueva88 posted [p:890869897] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote>Just make good games and people will buy. Sure the price of games hasn't changed but neither has the game. The Call of duty franchise has been the same game with different skin since modern warfare.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
eston 11/22/17 12:51:42 PM #52:	mvillanueva88 posted... Just make good games and people will buy. Sure the price of games hasn't changed but neither has the game. The Call of duty franchise has been the same game with different skin since modern warfare. The production values have gone up a lot though, which is why they aren't willing to take a lot of risks. The last time they took a risk with CoD they broke the world record for most disliked YouTube video --- http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i215/estonc/grizzly_bear_chairs_2.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8kjZU.jpg <cite>eston posted [p:890870018] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>mvillanueva88 posted...</cite> <quote>Just make good games and people will buy. Sure the price of games hasn't changed but neither has the game. The Call of duty franchise has been the same game with different skin since modern warfare.</quote> The production values have gone up a lot though, which is why they aren't willing to take a lot of risks. The last time they took a risk with CoD they broke the world record for most disliked YouTube video</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 11/22/17 12:53:10 PM #53:	Darkman124 posted... Questionmarktarius posted... He's not wrong, though. he is. the growing volume of the industry and the prolific nature of used game sales and steam sales for PC games places a hard cap on the price a company can expect for a single video game. independent development companies don't even try to charge $60 for a game. they set up a development cycle with costs built in to support a price target they think can be swung at release. the bigger companies have an ad campaign behind their games, and typically that is what enables them to manage $60. pricing higher just means people delay their buy, the launch weekend fails, investors get skittish, and the board gets slammed. When a game has to sell five million (possibly more) copies to break even nowadays, that's a problem. Because the $60 price point is sticky as hell, and any "AAA" game that doesn't cost a bucket of money to develop gets shit on as "looks like a PS2 game", lootboxes and other pay-to-win bullshit is pretty much all they got. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:890870090] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darkman124 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote>He's not wrong, though.</quote> he is. the growing volume of the industry and the prolific nature of used game sales and steam sales for PC games places a hard cap on the price a company can expect for a single video game. independent development companies don't even try to charge $60 for a game. they set up a development cycle with costs built in to support a price target they think can be swung at release. the bigger companies have an ad campaign behind their games, and typically that is what enables them to manage $60. pricing higher just means people delay their buy, the launch weekend fails, investors get skittish, and the board gets slammed.</quote> When a game has to sell five million (possibly more) copies to break even nowadays, that's a problem. Because the $60 price point is sticky as hell, and any "AAA" game that doesn't cost a bucket of money to develop gets shit on as "looks like a PS2 game", lootboxes and other pay-to-win bullshit is pretty much all they got.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkphoenix181 11/22/17 12:56:41 PM #54:	tech gets cheaper over time inflation doesn't make tech products go up http://www.businessinsider.com/historical-price-trends-for-tech-products-2015-10 Technological innovation is great for consumers. As technology gets more advanced, prices drop and products get better. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics tracks prices for broad categories of goods over time. As this chart of prices for the last 18 years shows, prices have dropped dramatically in almost every tech sector. The drop in computer hardware is particularly steep. why should video games be different than computers, cell phones, photographic equipment, televisions, audio equipment, etc? hmm? --- sigless user is me or am I? <cite>darkphoenix181 posted [p:890870285] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote>tech gets cheaper over time inflation doesn't make tech products go up http://www.businessinsider.com/historical-price-trends-for-tech-products-2015-10 <quote> Technological innovation is great for consumers. As technology gets more advanced, prices drop and products get better. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics tracks prices for broad categories of goods over time. As this chart of prices for the last 18 years shows, prices have dropped dramatically in almost every tech sector. The drop in computer hardware is particularly steep.</quote> why should video games be different than computers, cell phones, photographic equipment, televisions, audio equipment, etc? hmm?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 11/22/17 1:07:12 PM #55:	darkphoenix181 posted... why should video games be different than computers, cell phones, photographic equipment, televisions, audio equipment, etc? hmm? Is it? Phantasy Star released at $70, in 1988. Neo Geo games sold at $100-300 each, with a typical price of $125, in the early 90s. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:890870846] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>why should video games be different than computers, cell phones, photographic equipment, televisions, audio equipment, etc? hmm?</quote> Is it? Phantasy Star released at $70, in 1988. Neo Geo games sold at $100-300 each, with a typical price of $125, in the early 90s.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Unquestionable 11/22/17 1:11:17 PM #56:	Questionmarktarius posted... Phantasy Star released at $70, in 1988. Or how about Phantasy Star IV launching at $99 on Genesis back in '94. Those 16 bit era RPGs usually ran quite a bit and would often be the only game I got that year. --- Immanentize the eschaton <cite>Unquestionable posted [p:890871065] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote>Phantasy Star released at $70, in 1988. </quote> Or how about Phantasy Star IV launching at $99 on Genesis back in '94. Those 16 bit era RPGs usually ran quite a bit and would often be the only game I got that year.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkphoenix181 11/22/17 1:12:53 PM #57:	Questionmarktarius posted... darkphoenix181 posted... why should video games be different than computers, cell phones, photographic equipment, televisions, audio equipment, etc? hmm? Is it? Phantasy Star released at $70, in 1988. Neo Geo games sold at $100-300 each, with a typical price of $125, in the early 90s. the people agreeing with the analyst are saying games stayed the same price despite inflation but should actually go up and it is not fair to the devs yet, we see video games is just being tech so I am simply asking why they have an issue with video games acting like all other technology? --- sigless user is me or am I? <cite>darkphoenix181 posted [p:890871169] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>why should video games be different than computers, cell phones, photographic equipment, televisions, audio equipment, etc? hmm?</quote> Is it? Phantasy Star released at $70, in 1988. Neo Geo games sold at $100-300 each, with a typical price of $125, in the early 90s.</quote> the people agreeing with the analyst are saying games stayed the same price despite inflation but should actually go up and it is not fair to the devs yet, we see video games is just being tech so I am simply asking why they have an issue with video games acting like all other technology?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Blue_Inigo 11/22/17 1:13:24 PM #58:	TheDarkCircle posted... He's a shill, who cares what he says? --- "This is your last dance." <cite>Blue_Inigo posted [p:890871208] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>TheDarkCircle posted...</cite> <quote>He's a shill, who cares what he says?</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
eston 11/22/17 1:15:38 PM #59:	There's a fundamental difference between hardware and software and the costs associated with developing each of those things. A console and a cell phone belong in the same category, a video game and a cell phone do not. --- http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i215/estonc/grizzly_bear_chairs_2.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8kjZU.jpg <cite>eston posted [p:890871325] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote>There's a fundamental difference between hardware and software and the costs associated with developing each of those things. A console and a cell phone belong in the same category, a video game and a cell phone do not.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
southcoast09 11/22/17 1:15:55 PM #60:	Why do these developers feel like they're entitled to more than $60? That's what a game costs; that's what they get. It's pretty clear that the ball is in our court and we can just.... not buy the garbage they put out. --- Stand for the anthem or sit for the game! <cite>southcoast09 posted [p:890871341] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote>Why do these developers feel like they're entitled to more than $60? That's what a game costs; that's what they get. It's pretty clear that the ball is in our court and we can just.... not buy the garbage they put out.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 11/22/17 1:16:06 PM #61:	eston posted... IMO it's a bit ironic since at it's core the whole point of the loot box system (from a gamer's perspective) is that you can pay real money so that you don't have to spend hours grinding The only reason you spend hours grinding is because the rate has been tuned to MAKE it a grind, enticing you to pay money to skip it. Build a game around the idea of making a good game and not a platform for future sales and you'll find there's no need for loot boxes. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:890871354] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>eston posted...</cite> <quote>IMO it's a bit ironic since at it's core the whole point of the loot box system (from a gamer's perspective) is that you can pay real money so that you don't have to spend hours grinding</quote> The only reason you spend hours grinding is because the rate has been tuned to MAKE it a grind, enticing you to pay money to skip it. Build a game around the idea of making a good game and not a platform for future sales and you'll find there's no need for loot boxes.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 11/22/17 1:19:38 PM #62:	darkphoenix181 posted... the people agreeing with the analyst are saying games stayed the same price despite inflation but should actually go up and it is not fair to the devs yet, we see video games is just being tech so I am simply asking why they have an issue with video games acting like all other technology? But, I seriously doubt Phantasy Star 4 cost several million to develop, even after adjusting for inflation since 1994 <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:890871563] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>the people agreeing with the analyst are saying games stayed the same price despite inflation but should actually go up and it is not fair to the devs yet, we see video games is just being tech so I am simply asking why they have an issue with video games acting like all other technology?</quote> But, I seriously doubt Phantasy Star 4 cost several million to develop, even after adjusting for inflation since 1994</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Prestoff 11/22/17 1:22:57 PM #63:	SapphireOfChaos posted... This guy, Evan Wingren, is in EA's pocket. Old news. Edit: Even worse, he's in Comcast's pocket too. Stolen from someone else on imgur. Not my personal research. So this is fucking damage control, like holy shit lol Scummy as shit --- It's what all true warriors strive for! <cite>Prestoff posted [p:890871753] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>SapphireOfChaos posted...</cite> <quote>This guy, Evan Wingren, is in EA's pocket. Old news. Edit: Even worse, he's in Comcast's pocket too. Stolen from someone else on imgur. Not my personal research.</quote> So this is fucking damage control, like holy shit lol Scummy as shit</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
thompsontalker7 11/22/17 1:24:19 PM #64:	On one hand, games are cheaper than they were before On the other hand, I don't want to see studios go under because they release a single game and don't make enough back to justify the budget through sales alone I don't see why companies can't just go back to traditional expansion pack-based DLC. Microtransactions are a bubble that will inevitably burst and the recovery will be very hard. You'd make much more off of those buying and you won't look like complete hacks while doing so. <cite>thompsontalker7 posted [p:890871824] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote>On one hand, games are cheaper than they were before On the other hand, I don't want to see studios go under because they release a single game and don't make enough back to justify the budget through sales alone I don't see why companies can't just go back to traditional expansion pack-based DLC. Microtransactions are a bubble that will inevitably burst and the recovery will be very hard. You'd make much more off of those buying and you won't look like complete hacks while doing so.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 11/22/17 1:24:37 PM #65:	Prestoff posted... So this is fucking damage control, like holy shit lol Scummy as shit Dude better have gotten a sweet kickback. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:890871849] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>Prestoff posted...</cite> <quote>So this is fucking damage control, like holy shit lol Scummy as shit</quote> Dude better have gotten a sweet kickback.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 11/22/17 1:25:34 PM #66:	hmmm, I don't know that gaming and technology is a good comparison movies seem like a better comparison to me, and the price of a movie ticket adjusted for inflation has gone up since time immemorial Idk what a VHS cost vs a DVD vs a Bluray at the relevant times in their industry's technological history, though --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:890871896] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote>hmmm, I don't know that gaming and technology is a good comparison movies seem like a better comparison to me, and the price of a movie ticket adjusted for inflation has gone up since time immemorial Idk what a VHS cost vs a DVD vs a Bluray at the relevant times in their industry's technological history, though</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 11/22/17 1:26:07 PM #67:	of course, movie-going is a dying industry while video games are growing, but the movie industry's price inflation was happening before the decline in theater-going --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:890871937] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote>of course, movie-going is a dying industry while video games are growing, but the movie industry's price inflation was happening before the decline in theater-going</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
thompsontalker7 11/22/17 1:26:51 PM #68:	Balrog0 posted... Idk what a VHS cost vs a DVD vs a Bluray at the relevant times in their industry's technological history, though When VHS first came out a blank tape cost around $72 after inflation Meanwhile a blank Blu-Ray costs about $2 to press <cite>thompsontalker7 posted [p:890871975] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote> Idk what a VHS cost vs a DVD vs a Bluray at the relevant times in their industry's technological history, though</quote> When VHS first came out a blank tape cost around $72 after inflation Meanwhile a blank Blu-Ray costs about $2 to press</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
eston 11/22/17 1:27:43 PM #69:	s0nicfan posted... eston posted... IMO it's a bit ironic since at it's core the whole point of the loot box system (from a gamer's perspective) is that you can pay real money so that you don't have to spend hours grinding The only reason you spend hours grinding is because the rate has been tuned to MAKE it a grind, enticing you to pay money to skip it. Build a game around the idea of making a good game and not a platform for future sales and you'll find there's no need for loot boxes. While this is true to a degree, grinding has been around way longer than loot boxes, and the option to grind is what keeps me personally from spending actual money on loot boxes. Even on f2p games I don't do it. The grind is part of the game IMO --- http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i215/estonc/grizzly_bear_chairs_2.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8kjZU.jpg <cite>eston posted [p:890872027] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>eston posted...</cite> <quote>IMO it's a bit ironic since at it's core the whole point of the loot box system (from a gamer's perspective) is that you can pay real money so that you don't have to spend hours grinding</quote> The only reason you spend hours grinding is because the rate has been tuned to MAKE it a grind, enticing you to pay money to skip it. Build a game around the idea of making a good game and not a platform for future sales and you'll find there's no need for loot boxes.</quote> While this is true to a degree, grinding has been around way longer than loot boxes, and the option to grind is what keeps me personally from spending actual money on loot boxes. Even on f2p games I don't do it. The grind is part of the game IMO</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SamuelHayden 11/22/17 1:27:54 PM #70:	darkphoenix181 posted... https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/20/gamers-overreacting-on-ea-star-wars-game-firms-should-raise-prices.html http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/21/video-games-should-be-more-expensive-and-gamers-are-overreacting-to-battlefront-ii-says-analyst-7097695/ Gamers livid over Electronic Arts' in-game moneymaking strategy in its new "Star Wars Battlefront II" title are overreacting, according to one Wall Street firm. "We view the negative reaction to Star Wars Battlefront 2 (and industry trading sympathy) as an opportunity to add to Electronic Arts, Take-Two, and Activision Blizzard positions. The handling of the SWBF2 launch by EA has been poor; despite this, we view the suspension of MTX [micro-transactions] in the near term as a transitory risk," KeyBanc Capital Markets analyst Evan Wingren wrote in a note to clients Sunday. "Gamers aren't overcharged, they're undercharged (and we're gamers). This saga has been a perfect storm for overreaction as it involves EA, Star Wars, reddit, and certain purist gaming journalists/outlets who dislike MTX," Wingren wrote. he analyst estimated cost per hour for a typical "Star Wars Battlefront II" player. He said if a gamer spent $60 for the game, an additional $20 per month for loot micro-transaction boxes and played around 2.5 hours a day for one year, it comes out to roughly 40 cents per hour of entertainment. This compares to an estimated 60 cents to 65 cents per hour for pay television, 80 cents per hour for a movie rental and more than $3 per hour for a movie watched in a theater, according to the firm's analysis. As a result the analyst reiterated his overweight ratings for Electronic Arts, Activision Blizzard and Take-Two with price targets of $134, $78 and $144 respectively. tl;dr analyst says EA should charge MORE then they'd become the new Capcom lol <cite>SamuelHayden posted [p:890872045] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/20/gamers-overreacting-on-ea-star-wars-game-firms-should-raise-prices.html http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/21/video-games-should-be-more-expensive-and-gamers-are-overreacting-to-battlefront-ii-says-analyst-7097695/ <quote> Gamers livid over Electronic Arts' in-game moneymaking strategy in its new "Star Wars Battlefront II" title are overreacting, according to one Wall Street firm. "We view the negative reaction to Star Wars Battlefront 2 (and industry trading sympathy) as an opportunity to add to Electronic Arts, Take-Two, and Activision Blizzard positions. The handling of the SWBF2 launch by EA has been poor; despite this, we view the suspension of MTX [micro-transactions] in the near term as a transitory risk," KeyBanc Capital Markets analyst Evan Wingren wrote in a note to clients Sunday. "Gamers aren't overcharged, they're undercharged (and we're gamers). This saga has been a perfect storm for overreaction as it involves EA, Star Wars, reddit, and certain purist gaming journalists/outlets who dislike MTX," Wingren wrote. he analyst estimated cost per hour for a typical "Star Wars Battlefront II" player. He said if a gamer spent $60 for the game, an additional $20 per month for loot micro-transaction boxes and played around 2.5 hours a day for one year, it comes out to roughly 40 cents per hour of entertainment. This compares to an estimated 60 cents to 65 cents per hour for pay television, 80 cents per hour for a movie rental and more than $3 per hour for a movie watched in a theater, according to the firm's analysis. As a result the analyst reiterated his overweight ratings for Electronic Arts, Activision Blizzard and Take-Two with price targets of $134, $78 and $144 respectively.</quote> tl;dr analyst says EA should charge MORE</quote> then they'd become the new Capcom lol</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 11/22/17 1:29:08 PM #71:	thompsontalker7 posted... When VHS first came out a blank tape cost around $72 after inflation Meanwhile a blank Blu-Ray costs about $2 to press how much did they sell for respectively, though? a huge part of this conversation is the discussion around costs of development so the price of the final product is more meaningful than the price of production for parts of it imo --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:890872111] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>thompsontalker7 posted...</cite> <quote>When VHS first came out a blank tape cost around $72 after inflation Meanwhile a blank Blu-Ray costs about $2 to press</quote> how much did they sell for respectively, though? a huge part of this conversation is the discussion around costs of development so the price of the final product is more meaningful than the price of production for parts of it imo</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 11/22/17 1:30:14 PM #72:	Balrog0 posted... a huge part of this conversation is the discussion around costs of development so the price of the final product is more meaningful than the price of production for parts of it imo To be fair, material cost was marginally relevant in the 80s and 90s, for videogames at least. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:890872179] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>a huge part of this conversation is the discussion around costs of development so the price of the final product is more meaningful than the price of production for parts of it imo</quote> To be fair, material cost was marginally relevant in the 80s and 90s, for videogames at least.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
thompsontalker7 11/22/17 1:32:41 PM #73:	Balrog0 posted... thompsontalker7 posted... When VHS first came out a blank tape cost around $72 after inflation Meanwhile a blank Blu-Ray costs about $2 to press how much did they sell for respectively, though? a huge part of this conversation is the discussion around costs of development so the price of the final product is more meaningful than the price of production for parts of it imo During the peak in the 80s the average VHS would sell from $50-80 meanwhile the most I've seen a Blu-Ray is $35-40 and that usually comes with a DVD and digital copy <cite>thompsontalker7 posted [p:890872295] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>thompsontalker7 posted...</cite> <quote>When VHS first came out a blank tape cost around $72 after inflation Meanwhile a blank Blu-Ray costs about $2 to press</quote> how much did they sell for respectively, though? a huge part of this conversation is the discussion around costs of development so the price of the final product is more meaningful than the price of production for parts of it imo</quote> During the peak in the 80s the average VHS would sell from $50-80 meanwhile the most I've seen a Blu-Ray is $35-40 and that usually comes with a DVD and digital copy</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkphoenix181 11/22/17 1:40:31 PM #74:	@eston posted... There's a fundamental difference between hardware and software and the costs associated with developing each of those things. A console and a cell phone belong in the same category, a video game and a cell phone do not. software also gets cheaper over time http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/chronology.html 1980 March 1980: SSIWP for Data General minicomputers (price: US$5,500 per copy) Free text programs today are better than the original WP as well as you can get WP for like $50 https://pifflelab.com/2012/07/22/computers-the-1990s-you-paid-how-much/ Microsoft Office, purchased in July 94. This was version 4.3 and came out for windows 3.1? Fortunately it also worked with Windows 95. I got a discount* because it was an upgrade from Works. Price: A$525 --- sigless user is me or am I? <cite>darkphoenix181 posted [p:890872765] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>@eston posted...</cite> <quote>There's a fundamental difference between hardware and software and the costs associated with developing each of those things. A console and a cell phone belong in the same category, a video game and a cell phone do not.</quote> software also gets cheaper over time http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/chronology.html <quote>1980 March 1980: SSI*WP for Data General minicomputers (price: US$5,500 per copy)</quote> Free text programs today are better than the original WP as well as you can get WP for like $50 https://pifflelab.com/2012/07/22/computers-the-1990s-you-paid-how-much/ <quote>Microsoft Office, purchased in July 94. This was version 4.3 and came out for windows 3.1? Fortunately it also worked with Windows 95. I got a discount because it was an upgrade from Works. Price: A$525</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 11/22/17 1:42:55 PM #75:	darkphoenix181 posted... @eston posted... There's a fundamental difference between hardware and software and the costs associated with developing each of those things. A console and a cell phone belong in the same category, a video game and a cell phone do not. software also gets cheaper over time http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/chronology.html 1980 March 1980: SSIWP for Data General minicomputers (price: US$5,500 per copy) Free text programs today are better than the original WP as well as you can get WP for like $50 https://pifflelab.com/2012/07/22/computers-the-1990s-you-paid-how-much/ Microsoft Office, purchased in July 94. This was version 4.3 and came out for windows 3.1? Fortunately it also worked with Windows 95. I got a discount* because it was an upgrade from Works. Price: A$525 a video game isn't software either I mean gone with the wind only cost an adjusted 70 million or so to make --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:890872920] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>@eston posted...</cite> <quote>There's a fundamental difference between hardware and software and the costs associated with developing each of those things. A console and a cell phone belong in the same category, a video game and a cell phone do not.</quote> software also gets cheaper over time http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/chronology.html <quote>1980 March 1980: SSI*WP for Data General minicomputers (price: US$5,500 per copy)</quote> Free text programs today are better than the original WP as well as you can get WP for like $50 https://pifflelab.com/2012/07/22/computers-the-1990s-you-paid-how-much/ <quote>Microsoft Office, purchased in July 94. This was version 4.3 and came out for windows 3.1? Fortunately it also worked with Windows 95. I got a discount because it was an upgrade from Works. Price: A$525</quote></quote> a video game isn't software either I mean gone with the wind only cost an adjusted 70 million or so to make</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkphoenix181 11/22/17 1:43:29 PM #76:	Balrog0 posted... a video game isn't software either what is it then? --- sigless user is me or am I? <cite>darkphoenix181 posted [p:890872954] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>a video game isn't software either</quote> what is it then?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 11/22/17 1:45:18 PM #77:	darkphoenix181 posted... what is it then? I mean the price comparison between general computer software and games is a bad one. --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:890873047] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>what is it then?</quote> I mean the price comparison between general computer software and games is a bad one.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 11/22/17 1:46:45 PM #78:	thompsontalker7 posted... During the peak in the 80s the average VHS would sell from $50-80 meanwhile the most I've seen a Blu-Ray is $35-40 and that usually comes with a DVD and digital copy that was back when the majority of VHS sales were wholesale to rental stores, though, correct? --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:890873126] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>thompsontalker7 posted...</cite> <quote>During the peak in the 80s the average VHS would sell from $50-80 meanwhile the most I've seen a Blu-Ray is $35-40 and that usually comes with a DVD and digital copy </quote> that was back when the majority of VHS sales were wholesale to rental stores, though, correct?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Smoke944 11/22/17 1:47:26 PM #79:	People not understanding what a sell-side analysts job is and making themselves look silly lol He doesnt sit on company conference calls, he sits on earnings calls like every other sell-side analyst does... --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejCCEAjDU7U <cite>Smoke944 posted [p:890873173] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote>People not understanding what a sell-side analysts job is and making themselves look silly lol He doesnt sit on company conference calls, he sits on earnings calls like every other sell-side analyst does...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 11/22/17 1:48:50 PM #80:	Balrog0 posted... that was back when the majority of VHS sales were wholesale to rental stores, though, correct? Yes, but it wasn't really a majority. As I recall it though, the "consumer" price was around $20 or maybe $30, while "priced for rental" started at $90, and could get pretty deep into $100-something. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:890873255] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote>that was back when the majority of VHS sales were wholesale to rental stores, though, correct?</quote> Yes, but it wasn't really a majority. As I recall it though, the "consumer" price was around $20 or maybe $30, while "priced for rental" started at $90, and could get pretty deep into $100-something.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Paper_Okami 11/22/17 1:52:02 PM #83:	Lol --- "Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism"- Emma Goldman "Wimmy Wham Wham Wozzle!" -Slurms MacKenzie <cite>Paper_Okami posted [p:890873446] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote>Lol</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Looked gf 11/22/17 1:53:18 PM #84:	Prestoff posted... SapphireOfChaos posted... This guy, Evan Wingren, is in EA's pocket. Old news. Edit: Even worse, he's in Comcast's pocket too. Stolen from someone else on imgur. Not my personal research. So this is fucking damage control, like holy shit lol Scummy as shit Lmao what a POS --- http://i.imgur.com/otLaOxa.gifv <cite>Looked gf posted [p:890873505] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>Prestoff posted...</cite> <quote><cite>SapphireOfChaos posted...</cite> <quote>This guy, Evan Wingren, is in EA's pocket. Old news. Edit: Even worse, he's in Comcast's pocket too. Stolen from someone else on imgur. Not my personal research.</quote> So this is fucking damage control, like holy shit lol Scummy as shit</quote> Lmao what a POS</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
kirbymuncher 11/22/17 1:55:00 PM #85:	darkphoenix181 posted... he analyst estimated cost per hour for a typical "Star Wars Battlefront II" player. He said if a gamer spent $60 for the game, an additional $20 per month for loot micro-transaction boxes and played around 2.5 hours a day for one year, it comes out to roughly 40 cents per hour of entertainment. This compares to an estimated 60 cents to 65 cents per hour for pay television, 80 cents per hour for a movie rental and more than $3 per hour for a movie watched in a theater, according to the firm's analysis. lol if you play 2.5 hours a day for a year straight, the game is still barely better value for money than television. some convincing argument that is. And that's even setting aside the ridiculousness of trying to make this sort of time/money comparison --- THIS IS WHAT I HATE A BOUT EVREY WEBSITE!! THERES SO MUCH PEOPLE READING AND POSTING STUIPED STUFF <cite>kirbymuncher posted [p:890873617] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>he analyst estimated cost per hour for a typical "Star Wars Battlefront II" player. He said if a gamer spent $60 for the game, an additional $20 per month for loot micro-transaction boxes and played around 2.5 hours a day for one year, it comes out to roughly 40 cents per hour of entertainment. This compares to an estimated 60 cents to 65 cents per hour for pay television, 80 cents per hour for a movie rental and more than $3 per hour for a movie watched in a theater, according to the firm's analysis. </quote> lol if you play 2.5 hours a day for a year straight, the game is still barely better value for money than television. some convincing argument that is. And that's even setting aside the ridiculousness of trying to make this sort of time/money comparison</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
eston 11/22/17 1:55:51 PM #86:	Balrog0 posted... darkphoenix181 posted... what is it then? I mean the price comparison between general computer software and games is a bad one. Yeah it seems a little disingenuous when the ballooning cost of game development is a well known thing. I don't think Word development is in the same ballpark at all --- http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i215/estonc/grizzly_bear_chairs_2.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8kjZU.jpg <cite>eston posted [p:890873670] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>what is it then?</quote> I mean the price comparison between general computer software and games is a bad one.</quote> Yeah it seems a little disingenuous when the ballooning cost of game development is a well known thing. I don't think Word development is in the same ballpark at all</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 11/22/17 1:55:56 PM #87:	kirbymuncher posted... lol if you play 2.5 hours a day for a year straight, the game is still barely better value for money than television. some convincing argument that is. And that's even setting aside the ridiculousness of trying to make this sort of time/money comparison I thought that was the funniest part of the analysis, yeah who plays games for 1000 hours or whatever? --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:890873679] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>kirbymuncher posted...</cite> <quote>lol if you play 2.5 hours a day for a year straight, the game is still barely better value for money than television. some convincing argument that is. And that's even setting aside the ridiculousness of trying to make this sort of time/money comparison</quote> I thought that was the funniest part of the analysis, yeah who plays games for 1000 hours or whatever?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
kirbymuncher 11/22/17 2:05:42 PM #88:	the only game I've played for 1000 hours is league of legends (over the course of like 4 years), and Ive never spent any money on it. Guess it has infinite value --- THIS IS WHAT I HATE A BOUT EVREY WEBSITE!! THERES SO MUCH PEOPLE READING AND POSTING STUIPED STUFF <cite>kirbymuncher posted [p:890874216] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote>the only game I've played for 1000 hours is league of legends (over the course of like 4 years), and Ive never spent any money on it. Guess it has infinite value</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SGT_Conti 11/22/17 2:13:48 PM #89:	Balrog0 posted... kirbymuncher posted... lol if you play 2.5 hours a day for a year straight, the game is still barely better value for money than television. some convincing argument that is. And that's even setting aside the ridiculousness of trying to make this sort of time/money comparison I thought that was the funniest part of the analysis, yeah who plays games for 1000 hours or whatever? Seriously. Looking at my Steam list, my highest playtime is 544 hours in Payday 2, and the following games never get closer than 350 hours, which is TF2. Back in those days when I had Xfire, Starcraft II and Company of Heroes sat at 400 hours apiece. I'm only half way to that 1000 hours for a game at most and I burned out so hard in all those games. I can't imagine spending 1000 hours in a game within a single year. --- "I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be." <cite>SGT_Conti posted [p:890874674] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>kirbymuncher posted...</cite> <quote>lol if you play 2.5 hours a day for a year straight, the game is still barely better value for money than television. some convincing argument that is. And that's even setting aside the ridiculousness of trying to make this sort of time/money comparison</quote> I thought that was the funniest part of the analysis, yeah who plays games for 1000 hours or whatever?</quote> Seriously. Looking at my Steam list, my highest playtime is 544 hours in Payday 2, and the following games never get closer than 350 hours, which is TF2. Back in those days when I had Xfire, Starcraft II and Company of Heroes sat at 400 hours apiece. I'm only half way to that 1000 hours for a game at most and I burned out so hard in all those games. I can't imagine spending 1000 hours in a game within a single year.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
thronedfire2 11/22/17 2:23:32 PM #90:	darkphoenix181 posted... @DuranOfForcena posted... darkphoenix181 posted... meanwhile the price of basically all other technology actually goes down and down and down overtime so you don't understand how inflation works then explain it to me then tell me why cell phone haven't gone up from their initial $3,995 price via inflation I will wait for your answer Because they've become cheaper to produce Video games have only ever gotten more expensive to make, not cheaper --- I could see you, but I couldn't hear you You were holding your hat in the breeze Turning away from me In this moment you were stolen... <cite>thronedfire2 posted [p:890875212] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>@DuranOfForcena posted...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>meanwhile the price of basically all other technology actually goes down and down and down overtime</quote> so you don't understand how inflation works then</quote> explain it to me then tell me why cell phone haven't gone up from their initial $3,995 price via inflation I will wait for your answer</quote> Because they've become cheaper to produce Video games have only ever gotten more expensive to make, not cheaper</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
myzz7 11/22/17 2:32:56 PM #91:	Southernfatman posted... "Wall Street ass kisser kisses corporate ass" p much --- http://s10.postimage.org/mxioonsd1/gildavatar.gif http://gifgifs.com/res/0916/57ebaeea6c7a9047727112.gif <cite>myzz7 posted [p:890875748] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>Southernfatman posted...</cite> <quote>"Wall Street ass kisser kisses corporate ass"</quote> p much</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LJRENEGADE 11/22/17 2:34:58 PM #92:	BlackHorse6969 posted... Hes making the assumption that you play every day for an entire year though, which isnt true at all for a lot of people. This, that's over 900 hours and I'd wager most people don't even come close to that number for the majority of games. Anyway, I think a lot of games aren't even worth $60 as it is. So many games offer nothing new and just give us the same old safe shit we see every year. I already skip most of these types of games, charge me more and I won't even consider picking them up anymore. <cite>LJRENEGADE posted [p:890875860] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>BlackHorse6969 posted...</cite> <quote>Hes making the assumption that you play every day for an entire year though, which isnt true at all for a lot of people.</quote> This, that's over 900 hours and I'd wager most people don't even come close to that number for the majority of games. Anyway, I think a lot of games aren't even worth $60 as it is. So many games offer nothing new and just give us the same old safe shit we see every year. I already skip most of these types of games, charge me more and I won't even consider picking them up anymore.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nundulan 11/22/17 2:35:43 PM #93:	Southernfatman posted... "Wall Street ass kisser kisses corporate ass" --- Take Your Time <cite>Nundulan posted [p:890875898] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>Southernfatman posted...</cite> <quote>"Wall Street ass kisser kisses corporate ass"</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zeus 11/22/17 2:38:07 PM #94:	Whenever I want to get really annoyed, I just listen to some moronic pundit calling himself an analyst explain some flaky logic behind his completely idiotic opinion. Coincidentally, that's why I avoid so-called "analysts" --- (\/)(\/)\|-\| In Zeus We Trust: All Others Pay Cash <cite>Zeus posted [p:890876033] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote>Whenever I want to get really annoyed, I just listen to some moronic pundit calling himself an analyst explain some flaky logic behind his completely idiotic opinion. Coincidentally, that's why I avoid so-called "analysts"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
yoshifan1 11/22/17 2:41:02 PM #95:	I think part of the issue the video game industry has is the same issue the movie industry has. I remember hearing a quote from Rob Zombie on directing movies about how astounded he was on how much money was completely wasted while producing a movie. I think the same issue is happening to video games as publishers pressure developers to focus on the cinematic aspect. --- Sandwiches are made with bread. <cite>yoshifan1 posted [p:890876218] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote>I think part of the issue the video game industry has is the same issue the movie industry has. I remember hearing a quote from Rob Zombie on directing movies about how astounded he was on how much money was completely wasted while producing a movie. I think the same issue is happening to video games as publishers pressure developers to focus on the cinematic aspect.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
shiby with it 11/22/17 2:46:52 PM #96:	TL;DR rich people saying other rich people aren't screwing people over badly enough --- ...I knew this 45 year old guy, goes by the name of Uncle Slappy, used to hang out on the corner of 56th and Rucker... -SArmstr0ng <cite>shiby with it posted [p:890876553] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote>TL;DR rich people saying other rich people aren't screwing people over badly enough</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ModLogic 11/22/17 2:54:25 PM #97:	Looked gf posted... Prestoff posted... SapphireOfChaos posted... This guy, Evan Wingren, is in EA's pocket. Old news. Edit: Even worse, he's in Comcast's pocket too. Stolen from someone else on imgur. Not my personal research. So this is fucking damage control, like holy shit lol Scummy as shit Lmao what a POS at least he is a paid shill. the real pos are the volunteer shill fanboys. --- http://i.imgur.com/hEL2qQYh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/lbSi0U3.png http://i.imgur.com/FA2GxDS.jpg http://i.imgur.com/xaRYKZM.png http://i.imgur.com/ZngbqJn.jpg <cite>ModLogic posted [p:890877032] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>Looked gf posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Prestoff posted...</cite> <quote><cite>SapphireOfChaos posted...</cite> <quote>This guy, Evan Wingren, is in EA's pocket. Old news. Edit: Even worse, he's in Comcast's pocket too. Stolen from someone else on imgur. Not my personal research.</quote> So this is fucking damage control, like holy shit lol Scummy as shit</quote> Lmao what a POS</quote> at least he is a paid shill. the real pos are the volunteer shill fanboys.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Knowledge_King 11/22/17 2:56:51 PM #98:	I remember games in the late 90s and early 2000s costing closer to $40 and $50 than $60. Price has definitely gone up. --- http://www.warwithwords.com He Who Leads: Global Ebook Award Winner:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CE0TLLM <cite>Knowledge_King posted [p:890877174] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote>I remember games in the late 90s and early 2000s costing closer to $40 and $50 than $60. Price has definitely gone up.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 11/22/17 2:58:19 PM #99:	Knowledge_King posted... I remember games in the late 90s and early 2000s costing closer to $40 and $50 than $60. Price has definitely gone up. PSX games were around that price, but N64 games at that time were often higher than $60 --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:890877253] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>Knowledge_King posted...</cite> <quote>I remember games in the late 90s and early 2000s costing closer to $40 and $50 than $60. Price has definitely gone up.</quote> PSX games were around that price, but N64 games at that time were often higher than $60</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 11/22/17 2:58:57 PM #100:	I remember $50 being pretty standard for Gamecube games, FWIW --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:890877292] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote>I remember $50 being pretty standard for Gamecube games, FWIW</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkphoenix181 11/22/17 3:04:11 PM #101:	@eston posted... Balrog0 posted... darkphoenix181 posted... what is it then? I mean the price comparison between general computer software and games is a bad one. Yeah it seems a little disingenuous when the ballooning cost of game development is a well known thing. I don't think Word development is in the same ballpark at all what is disingenuous is ignoring the ballooning cost of making a smart phone when previously un-smart phones costed much much more... because it is hardware and then ignoring software trends that are similar enough to this hardware, because it is a principle of tech as well so games according to you both are neither hardware, nor software are they even technology? that is the loops you have to jump through to argue that the costs should go up and not down because the facts are against you btw, "ballooning costs" are a lie they put tons of money into it hoping to extract even more money out they aren't making the development costs soar that high because they want to make good games they are doing it because they think they can get one over on you with super impressive graphics meanwhile small dev company with extremely low costs makes bank meanwhile even smaller dev who is literally 1 guy also makes bank hmmmm.....who is being, disingenuous... https://dotesports.com/call-of-duty/cod-wwii-sales-opening-weekend-18571 $500 million opening those poor devs :( --- sigless user is me or am I? <cite>darkphoenix181 posted [p:890877632] in in respons... [t:76019491]...</cite> <quote><cite>@eston posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Balrog0 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>darkphoenix181 posted...</cite> <quote>what is it then?</quote> I mean the price comparison between general computer software and games is a bad one.</quote> Yeah it seems a little disingenuous when the ballooning cost of game development is a well known thing. I don't think Word development is in the same ballpark at all</quote> what is disingenuous is ignoring the ballooning cost of making a smart phone when previously un-smart phones costed much much more... because it is hardware and then ignoring software trends that are similar enough to this hardware, because it is a principle of tech as well so games according to you both are neither hardware, nor software are they even technology? that is the loops you have to jump through to argue that the costs should go up and not down because the facts are against you btw, "ballooning costs" are a lie they put tons of money into it hoping to extract even more money out they aren't making the development costs soar that high because they want to make good games they are doing it because they think they can get one over on you with super impressive graphics meanwhile small dev company with extremely low costs makes bank meanwhile even smaller dev who is literally 1 guy also makes bank hmmmm.....who is being, disingenuous... https://dotesports.com/call-of-duty/cod-wwii-sales-opening-weekend-18571 $500 million opening those poor devs :(</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > in response to gamers upset at EA, analyst says game should cost more (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > in response to gamers upset at EA, analyst says game should cost more