Current Events > It's really weird how devoutly/unquestioningly CE respects the law.

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's something I've noticed for a while now...

Take the case of the basketballers arrested in China for stealing a pair of sunglasses... They were facing ten years in prison. I can't count how many times I've seen somebody say something like, "Fair, next," or "Don't do the crime and you won't do the crime"...

In many cases, there isn't a single brain cell expended on the quality of the law itself. Most normal people don't think shoplifting deserves a ten year sentence... but CE's flow chart on a lot of issues seems to come down to, "Did they break the law?" --(if yes)--> " Fair, next."

Also saw this about the kid who stole a propaganda poster in North Korea, got sentenced to 15 years hard labor, and died from injuries sustained in custody... Lots of people "Fair, nexting" that one too.

I think it's more that people file things like that under "what did you think was going to happen?"
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It's not that they're just simply shoplifting, it's that they're going to some of the most Totalitarian/Authoritarian countries in the world and shoplifting. That takes a special kind of stupidity.

You are 18 years old and play basket for UCLA.
Your father is a former NFL player and your big brother is a NBA player.
You should be smart enough to know that if you travel to another country with your team to play a match, then you represent your country. That means that you dont go out and shoplift a pair of sunglasses.
You are also old enough to know what type of country China is. If not, you should at least be smart enough to check it up before you travel there.
If you are stupid enough to shoplift a pair of sunglasses in China... then you deserve to be punished.
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It's not fair and it's not next, but it's also not surprising either.

But CE is also full of some very sheltered people who clearly grew up under helicopter parents, so that's not surprising either
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Foppe posted...

You are 18 years old and play basket for UCLA.
Your father is a former NFL player and your big brother is a NBA player.
You should be smart enough to know that if you travel to another country with your team to play a match, then you represent your country. That means that you dont go out and shoplift a pair of sunglasses.
You are also old enough to know what type of country China is. If not, you should at least be smart enough to check it up before you travel there.
If you are stupid enough to shoplift a pair of sunglasses in China... then you deserve to be punished.

None of this really disagrees with what the TC is saying though.
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CE is full of quaint, little victim-blaming social Darwinists

Rexdragon125 posted...

CE is full of quaint, little victim-blaming social Darwinists

Shoplifters are victims now?

I don't think anyone here respects Chinese law, especially one that jails a person for 10 years for shoplifting. But those of us who aren't idiots know we don't have any control over what Chinese laws are, and I feel like if most of us traveled abroad we would know not to act like idiots and disrespect the countries that are temporarily hosting us.

Also honestly if you're an athlete who is already getting a lot of stuff handed to him for free at home, the fact that you'd shoplift sunglasses from China makes you entitled as fuck and I have no sympathy for you.
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I think it goes beyond "what did you think was going to happen..."

I think a lot of CE has weird values that emphasize compliance with authority, along with disrespect for people who go against authority (protesters, rulebreakers, people who don't like "The System"...) There's a lot of negativity reserved for people who challenge societal conventions insofar as their appearance, etc., and I think the weird fetishization of authority is one facet of that. Maybe it stems from spending your whole life following stupid quest arrows and being told what to do.

There's something wrong with you if you think sunglasses are worth even a year in prison

That_Happened posted...

I don't think anyone here respects Chinese law, especially one that jails a person for 10 years for shoplifting. But those of us who aren't idiots know we don't have any control over what Chinese laws are, and I feel like if most of us traveled abroad we would know not to act like idiots and disrespect the countries that are temporarily hosting us.

Also honestly if you're an athlete who is already getting a lot of stuff handed to him for free at home, the fact that you'd shoplift sunglasses from China makes you entitled as fuck and I have no sympathy for you.

Still though, none of this really disagrees with what TC is saying though.

Like I think it boils more down to "Yeah, those guys were dumb for shoplifting and should obviously be punished but just because the law says you should get 10 years for it doesn't mean that it's reasonable to get 10 years for it. Maybe we should rethink 10 year sentences for shoplifting."

And I understand that the country in the example here is China and there is obviously nothing any of us can do about Chines laws, but the mindset that the TC talks about extends beyond China.
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Twin3Turbo posted...

Like I think it boils more down to "Yeah, those guys were dumb for shoplifting and should obviously be punished but just because the law says you should get 10 years for it doesn't mean that it's reasonable to get 10 years for it. Maybe we should rethink 10 year sentences for shoplifting."

And I understand that the country in the example here is China and there is obviously nothing any of us can do about Chines laws, but the mindset that the TC talks about extends beyond China.

Well I agree with you there. There were several people on CE who said that being a Nazi wasn't as bad as punching a Nazi who provokes you into a fight, because getting physical makes you a criminal and being a criminal is always worse. It's a weird mindset.
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It's not that 10 years isn't excessive, but we can't control china law and if you shoplift in china and get caught what do you expect is going to happen?

Your north korea example is the same exact thing. We can't control their laws, so if you do something incredibly stupid (like steal ANYTHING from N. Korea) you shouldn't be surprised that said person got punished even if the punishment was excessive.

As for the punch a nazi thing. A person punching someone spouting nazi rhetoric is in the wrong because they are turning a verbal altercation into a physical alteration. It doesn't mean said nazi is not scum of the earth however.
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Rexdragon125 posted...

There's something wrong with you if you think sunglasses are worth even a year in prison

Oh, it is not.
But it is fully known how harsh China is, so why try to steal them in the first place?
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That_Happened posted...

Well I agree with you there. There were several people on CE who said that being a Nazi wasn't as bad as punching a Nazi who provokes you into a fight, because getting physical makes you a criminal and being a criminal is always worse. It's a weird mindset.

That's a good point, that was a big topic of discussion a month or two ago and it's a valid application of what I'm talking about. Most peoplle would agree Nazis are the scum of the earth, but a lot of the authoritarian-minded posters here held that the Nazis were in fact better people than the people who punched them because they didn't break any laws.

Malcolm_McGuffi posted...

Also saw this about the kid who stole a propaganda poster in North Korea, got sentenced to 15 years hard labor, and died from injuries sustained in custody... Lots of people "Fair, nexting" that one too.

I think most people here wouldn't go to North Korea because we have little real power of them and we could be jailed for the silliest of reasons and so the "Fair, next" is putting yourself in that situation.
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Switching gears, but another facet of what I'm talking about encompasses religion. This doesn't go for everyone who posts on CE, but I've noticed a considerable ground level of support for Christianity, accompanied by disdain or nonbelievers. Atheism topics tend to get relentlessly mocked on this board with lots of "Now I am euphoric"s, "*tips fedora*"s, "milady"s, etc. It's a rarity to even see a topic challenging the precepts of Christianity anymore. I could be totally wrong, but I suspect part of the reason for this is, again, a lot of posters here have this peculiar authoritarian mindset that leads them to respect established authorities and traditions (like organized religion) while spurning people who rebel against those institutions.

Or have you ever noticed how if a picture of a girl with blue hair and thick-rimmed black glasses gets posted, she'll be roundly mocked? People will dogpile, calling her hipster, SJW, tumblrina, etc. It's like any rebellion against societal norms, even in something as venial as a person's appearance, will trigger this impulse in people to lash out. It's a weird authoritarian thing going on here. CE are like the anti-hippies, here it's all about obeying and conforming.

I don't get what your point here is at all
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Malcolm_McGuffi posted...

Or have you ever noticed how if a picture of a girl with blue hair and thick-rimmed black glasses gets posted, she'll be roundly mocked? People will dogpile, calling her hipster, SJW, tumblrina, etc. It's like any rebellion against societal norms, even in something as venial as a person's appearance, will trigger this impulse in people to lash out. It's a weird authoritarian thing going on here. CE are like the anti-hippies, here it's all about obeying and conforming.

I think you're misreading the situation. People mock people with blue hair and thick-rimmed black glasses on here, not because it's "against the norms", but because it's a cookie cutter "against the norms" look.
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Is 10 years for shoplifting right? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. That's not up for me to decide since I'm not affiliated with China in anyway.

What I do know is that shoplifting is wrong. You shouldn't do it regardless of the punishment. That's just being a decent fucking human.
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I mean... yeah, they were stupid for doing it.

But the consequence doesn't fit the action and anyone who thinks so is being ludicrous. Would you want your own kid given hard labour for a dozen years for such a petty theft? We don't jail people who commit serious and real crimes in the west for anywhere near that long.
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Funkydog posted...

We don't jail people who commit serious and real crimes in the west for anywhere near that long.

And someone would argue that might be the reason we have such a high amount of repeat offenders.
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D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

Funkydog posted...

We don't jail people who commit serious and real crimes in the west for anywhere near that long.

And someone would argue that might be the reason we have such a high amount of repeat offenders.

Well, it's not like harsh punishments stop people committing the associated crimes. Some might think are better ways to rehabilitate people than throwing criminals into a room with other criminals.
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CE is full of some of the most sheltered people in the world. The type of dudes who think that tattoos "ruin women's perfect skin" and such.

Keep in mind this place is full of bible thumpers who grew up in the belt being coddled by their parents.

To them, even something like smoking weed is heinous because mommy and Jesus said so.
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it is even more prevalent in cases discussing draconian drug laws in the US
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It's one thing to respect the law, but why are you feeling sympathy for those who disrespect the law for other countries? If you're an American traveling abroad, you are not subject to American punishments for crimes committed in other countries.

Do I think 10 years for shoplifting is too harsh? Absolutely. But those kids lucked their way out of what would've been an inarguable sentence simply because their father is so annoying that he probably wouldn't even be allowed on E! Network
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I see people on CE take issue with the laws in Islamic countries all the time, like the one in Pakistan that allows you to legally "lightly beat your wife" if she disobeys. Usually when that stuff is pointed out, certain users on this board get very sensitive and start insulting you.

As for this China stuff, I don't think anyone defended 10 years as being a fair sentence, but people have made comments like the one eston posted in #2.
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I feel like religion is more evenly split. Only a handful of posters ive seen are openly religious. Most people expressing hard views in either direction end up getting mocked.

But yeah. In general, there does seem to be a distinct authority culture on CE. I've seen people argue that breaking the speed limit was a heinous crime. >^>
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D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

Is 10 years for shoplifting right? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. That's not up for me to decide since I'm not affiliated with China in anyway.

What I do know is that shoplifting is wrong. You shouldn't do it regardless of the punishment. That's just being a decent fucking human.

This is a pretty good example of what I'm talking about. See how the poster willingly relinquishes all thought and opinion? "It's not for ME to decide what a fit punishment for shoplifting is." Well... Actually, as the executive decision-maker in charge of your own brain, yeah, it is in your power to determine what you think a just punishment for a minor infraction like shoplifting should be. But the poster just willingly cedes their own capacity for thought to the authorities in charge... No room for anything else, just the flow chart. "Did he shoplift?" ---(if yes)---> "Rulebreaker, shitty human being, jail for life if that's what the system ordains."

The Admiral posted...

I see people on CE take issue with the laws in Islamic countries all the time, like the one in Pakistan that allows you to legally "lightly beat your wife" if she disobeys. Usually when that stuff is pointed out, certain users on this board get very sensitive and start insulting you.

Islam is not an established authority in the US...

Malcolm_McGuffi posted...

The Admiral posted...

I see people on CE take issue with the laws in Islamic countries all the time, like the one in Pakistan that allows you to legally "lightly beat your wife" if she disobeys. Usually when that stuff is pointed out, certain users on this board get very sensitive and start insulting you.

Islam is not an established authority in the US...

And China is?
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The Admiral posted...

Malcolm_McGuffi posted...

The Admiral posted...

I see people on CE take issue with the laws in Islamic countries all the time, like the one in Pakistan that allows you to legally "lightly beat your wife" if she disobeys. Usually when that stuff is pointed out, certain users on this board get very sensitive and start insulting you.

Islam is not an established authority in the US...

And China is?

No, but shoplifting laws are.

people are talking about it like its some chinese thing, btw, but the value of what he stole could get him in jail for years in at least some states in America too
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designer LV glasses =/

sounds very expensive tbh. not your $1 sunglasses
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CE is very inconsistent about when we should respect cultural differences
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hockeybub89 posted...

CE is very inconsistent about when we should respect cultural differences

in florida, theft of that level can net you up to 5 years in prison
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