Current Events > you guys realize phone companies can cheat you easily right?

(+) Yeah! (+)

if they want to raise your bill

they just make you pay more in the Universal Service Charge

you see your bill went up and ask them about it

their response is that it is a mandated government fee they have no control over

but that is literally a lie

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/understanding-your-telephone-bill

"Universal service charges"

All telecommunications service providers must contribute to the federal Universal Service Fund, which helps people in rural and high-cost areas, and income-eligible consumers, get access to telecommunications services at reasonable rates through programs and initiatives such as the Connect America Fund, Lifeline and the E-rate program for schools and libraries.

A "Universal Service" line item may appear on your telephone bill when your service provider chooses to recover USF contributions from you, the customer. The FCC does not require this charge to be passed on to you, but service providers are allowed to do so. These charges usually appear as a percentage of your phone bill. Companies cannot collect an amount that exceeds the percentage of their own contributions to the USF. They also cannot collect any fees on services fully supported by the Lifeline program.

Basically the government makes THEM pay a fee and then allows them to collect money from YOU to reimburse them.

They put it on your bill under the guise as a fee that the government is making YOU pay to the GOVERNMENT.

But the truth is they raised your bill to cover their butts.

Consumers need to rally against this practice imo.
If they want to raise our bills, they should be forced to be honest and say "we are raising your bill" instead of using a tactic to trick tons of people into thinking it is tax and no one can control or change it because government.
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Is there a tl;dr?
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ThirdGender posted...

Is there a tl;dr?

govt makes phone company pay a fee
phone company puts that fee on your bill making you pay them not the govt
then phone company lies saying your bill didn't go up, the tax did and they can't control that
except the amount collected is determined by them, not the govt and paid to them not the govt (they could easily collect an arbitrary amount and likely do)
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Hmmmm.
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think of it this way:

you buy a coke from me and the price is 1.60

one day you buy it and I charge you 1.80

you ask me why it went up

I say the taxes went up but the coke is the same price

but the tax didn't actually go up, because I am not collecting a tax for the government, I am collecting a reimbursement to some fee I have to pay and putting it on the consumer

but instead of making the price go up, like is done when the cost of coke from the distributor goes up, I pretend the price stayed the same and it is the governments fault you are paying more and I have no control over it

in other words a big fat lie
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darkphoenix181 posted...

ThirdGender posted...

Is there a tl;dr?

govt makes phone company pay a fee
phone company puts that fee on your bill making you pay them not the govt
then phone company lies saying your bill didn't go up, the tax did and they can't control that
except the amount collected is determined by them, not the govt and paid to them not the govt (they could easily collect an arbitrary amount and likely do)

tl;dr tl;dr:
Companies pass compliance costs to the consumer.

and the government is just fine taking the blame because they get their money anyway and politicans can run under the guise of "lowering" this fake tax, our society if built on lies after lies after lies for the sake of money and there's absolutely no way to stop it short of killing everybody, wiping all memories and knowledge of modern day society and starting fresh.
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like seriously I had got my phone service for smart phone in 2015 paying roughly $60 a month

a few months ago it was up to $67

the actual service only went up $1

the remaining $6 was because of what they claimed was taxes collected by the government

except most of those aren't actually collected by the government, it is collected by them to pay themselves
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tremain07 posted...

and the government is just fine taking the blame because they get their money anyway and politicans can run under the guise of "lowering" this fake tax, our society if built on lies after lies after lies for the sake of money and there's absolutely no way to stop it short of killing everybody, wiping all memories and knowledge of modern day society and starting fresh.

it seems pretty illegal to me to raise the price and then claim you didn't raise the price, that it is a tax that you can't control

people who never look into this will believe them and think their service remained the same price but taxes just went up
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Looks like it's adjusted quarterly:
https://www.fcc.gov/general/contribution-factor-quarterly-filings-universal-service-fund-usf-management-support

Contribution Factor: Telecommunications companies must pay a percentage of their interstate end-user revenues to the Universal Service Fund. This percentage is called the contribution factor. The contribution factor changes four times a year (quarterly) and is increased or decreased depending on the needs of the Universal Service programs. You can read more about the contribution factor in the FCC's Fact Sheet on Universal Service.

Increase from 17.1% to 18.8%, from Q3 to Q4.

darkphoenix181 posted...

tremain07 posted...

and the government is just fine taking the blame because they get their money anyway and politicans can run under the guise of "lowering" this fake tax, our society if built on lies after lies after lies for the sake of money and there's absolutely no way to stop it short of killing everybody, wiping all memories and knowledge of modern day society and starting fresh.

it seems pretty illegal to me to raise the price and then claim you didn't raise the price, that it is a tax that you can't control

people who never look into this will believe them and think their service remained the same price but taxes just went up

It's illegal but whose going to make the arrest or stop it when the cops here are funded by this?
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tremain07 posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

tremain07 posted...

and the government is just fine taking the blame because they get their money anyway and politicans can run under the guise of "lowering" this fake tax, our society if built on lies after lies after lies for the sake of money and there's absolutely no way to stop it short of killing everybody, wiping all memories and knowledge of modern day society and starting fresh.

it seems pretty illegal to me to raise the price and then claim you didn't raise the price, that it is a tax that you can't control

people who never look into this will believe them and think their service remained the same price but taxes just went up

It's illegal but whose going to make the arrest or stop it when the cops here are funded by this?

well there for awhile when I called and asked them about it, they hastily gave me $5 credits to my bill

when it kept happening I told the guy I didn't want a credit, I wanted my bill fixed so that it would stop going up

he claimed he did that

it looked like he did the next month except as it turned out he gave me another stealth credit

then I had my service changed but they still keep raising it and lying to me that the government is making them do it

if consumers started blowing up their lines and getting credits, they would have to rethink it
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Too bad many won't because they're busy working to try and build their llives than fighting with people over the phone, keep the populace busy trying not to starve to death and maintain their lives and you have plenty of ways to fuck them over.
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Why blame the phone company when this is literally Trumps America. FCC probably taking that extra dough so millionaires can have personal cell towers built on their ranches and retreats and call it rural expansion

Pitlord_Special posted...

Why blame the phone company when this is literally Trumps America. FCC probably taking that extra dough so millionaires can have personal cell towers built on their ranches and retreats and call it rural expansion

wtf

and no, they been doing it before Trump was even campaigning

btw, this isn't about the FCC taking extra dough

the FCC doesn't collect fees from you

that is the point
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tremain07 posted...

and the government is just fine taking the blame because they get their money anyway and politicans can run under the guise of "lowering" this fake tax, our society if built on lies after lies after lies for the sake of money and there's absolutely no way to stop it short of killing everybody, wiping all memories and knowledge of modern day society and starting fresh.

The solution is to preserve individual rights and freedoms, so that individuals have as much mobility and opportunities to thrive as possible.
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Wait, so you guys expect the phone company to just eat the fees placed on them? LOL sorry that's not how it works. This is why I laugh so hard when silly leftists say things like "Raise corporate taxes!!!" Companies don't pay taxes. The consumers the fees are passed on to pay them.
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r4X0r posted...

Wait, so you guys expect the phone company to just eat the fees placed on them? LOL sorry that's not how it works. This is why I laugh so hard when silly leftists say things like "Raise corporate taxes!!!" Companies don't pay taxes. The consumers the fees are passed on to pay them.

Leftists aren't a particularly bright bunch.
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r4X0r posted...

Wait, so you guys expect the phone company to just eat the fees placed on them? LOL sorry that's not how it works. This is why I laugh so hard when silly leftists say things like "Raise corporate taxes!!!" Companies don't pay taxes. The consumers the fees are passed on to pay them.

I would expect that if they needed money to cover their fee that THEY have to pay, they would raise the bill to compensate

but instead they separate it out and claim the government is asking you to pay it

when that is totally a lie and a cheat

so they can look like they didn't raise the price
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

r4X0r posted...

Wait, so you guys expect the phone company to just eat the fees placed on them? LOL sorry that's not how it works. This is why I laugh so hard when silly leftists say things like "Raise corporate taxes!!!" Companies don't pay taxes. The consumers the fees are passed on to pay them.

Leftists aren't a particularly bright bunch.

well if the leftists cared about us consumers then they could make it illegal to pass the fee on to us when they have full house and senate control

yes, that would make the prices go up, but they are already up, just it is hidden knowledge under the guise of a fee
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darkphoenix181 posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

r4X0r posted...

Wait, so you guys expect the phone company to just eat the fees placed on them? LOL sorry that's not how it works. This is why I laugh so hard when silly leftists say things like "Raise corporate taxes!!!" Companies don't pay taxes. The consumers the fees are passed on to pay them.

Leftists aren't a particularly bright bunch.

well if the leftists cared about us consumers then they could make it illegal to pass the fee on to us when they have full house and senate control

yes, that would make the prices go up, but they are already up, just it is hidden knowledge under the guise of a fee

Rent control tried the same type of thing and it was a disaster
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darkphoenix181 posted...

make it illegal to pass the fee on to us

yes, that would make the prices go up

uh...

So now we want to tell companies what they can charge for their services. Yes, brilliant idea.

MAYBE we should elect people who stop putting stupid taxes and fees on everything instead of attacking companies that provide services that we want.
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r4X0r posted...

So now we want to tell companies what they can charge for their services. Yes, brilliant idea.

MAYBE we should elect people who stop putting stupid taxes and fees on everything instead of attacking companies that provide services that we want.

Yeah, it reminds me of how people complained about things like the 9/11 Security Fee and other bullshit like that but then went along and elected Nannys to represent us.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

make it illegal to pass the fee on to us

yes, that would make the prices go up

uh...

you don't see the difference?

consider if McDonalds said your big mac costed $1

you pay and they ask for $2

big mac $1
tax 8 cents
city burger fee 30 cents
federal meat fee 62 cents

sorry bro, the government makes us collect these fees!

except the government doesn't

is that ethical?
no

instead it should be

bic mac is $1.85
tax 15 cents

comes out to 2 dollars

and they can still pay the fee on their own terms from their profits, just you as the consumer never see that happened and just see the total price
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r4X0r posted...

So now we want to tell companies what they can charge for their services. Yes, brilliant idea.

MAYBE we should elect people who stop putting stupid taxes and fees on everything instead of attacking companies that provide services that we want.

what are you on about?

they can charge whatever they want

but they are literally lying to you telling you the government is collecting this fee from you

when they are just paying themselves back

go ahead and call you phone service and ask them why the Universal Service Charge went up this month

report back to us what they said

or are you some kind of shill for literally some of the worst companies out there? (at&t, comcast, etc)
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darkphoenix181 posted...

you pay and they ask for $2

big mac $1
tax $ 8 cents
city burger fee $30
federal meat fee $70

sorry bro, the government makes us collect these fees!

Wasn't that a cellphone ad about lemonade once?

Are you suggesting that the listed price should be the actual final price?
If so, I think I've advocated that more than once, and gotten shot down at least a couple times.

Asherlee10 posted...

So, what can I do about it?

well, if you want to do something immediate

you can try calling them and saying your bill keeps going up and it doesn't make sense

ask them to explain these fees and why they exist

they will likely be lazy and give you a $5 credit like they did for me
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Questionmarktarius posted...

Are you suggesting that the listed price should be the actual final price?
If so, I think I've advocated that more than once, and gotten shot down at least a couple times.

not exactly

there are some legit fees the government collects that they cannot control

the problem is they also add their own fees and PRETEND that they are government mandated fees when the reality is they are paying themselves

going back to my burger ex

on the menu the burger is a dollar, but the reality is you pay $1.08 because of sales tax
that is fine because we all know what sales tax is and you pay that basically everywhere

in the latter case, wtf even is a federal meat tax, who determines how much you pay for it?
and saying the government forced them to collect this when it is not true and they are pocketing the money from it is unethical and pretty much illegal
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darkphoenix181 posted...

in the latter case, wtf even is a federal meat tax, who determines how much you pay for it?

A better analogy would be the "soda tax".

An even better one would be an 85-cent list price for a pack of cigarettes, then getting charged six bucks at checkout.

Questionmarktarius posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

in the latter case, wtf even is a federal meat tax, who determines how much you pay for it?

A better analogy would be the "soda tax".

An even better one would be an 85-cent list price for a pack of cigarettes, then getting charged six bucks at checkout.

I don't follow

was the soda tax a way for Coca Cola to collect more money while making it look like Coke stayed the same price?
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darkphoenix181 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

in the latter case, wtf even is a federal meat tax, who determines how much you pay for it?

A better analogy would be the "soda tax".

An even better one would be an 85-cent list price for a pack of cigarettes, then getting charged six bucks at checkout.

I don't follow

was the soda tax a way for Coca Cola to collect more money while making it look like Coke stayed the same price?

Okay, I'll try harder....
Have you purchased an airline ticket in the past fifteen or so years?

Questionmarktarius posted...

Okay, I'll try harder....
Have you purchased an airline ticket in the past fifteen or so years?

yes
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darkphoenix181 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Okay, I'll try harder....
Have you purchased an airline ticket in the past fifteen or so years?

yes

There you go. That's fees and taxes passed directly through, while keeping the "list price" unchanged.

Questionmarktarius posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Okay, I'll try harder....
Have you purchased an airline ticket in the past fifteen or so years?

yes

There you go. That's fees and taxes passed directly through, while keeping the "list price" unchanged.

umm

when I go to pay for an airline ticket, I pay the price that is listed

if they are putting fees in that price, I wouldn't know, and I can compare at that moment to the other airlines

when I go to pay my phone bill, it is way higher than the price they agreed to give me when I agree to use their service

so I ask what went up and look at the bill, and they claim I am still paying the same price for my service

how in the world do you equate these two things?
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Okay, let's try this again...

Buying a car.
https://www.autotrader.com/car-shopping/buying-a-car-why-isnt-the-msrp-also-the-final-price-242839

Questionmarktarius posted...

Okay, let's try this again...

Buying a car.
https://www.autotrader.com/car-shopping/buying-a-car-why-isnt-the-msrp-also-the-final-price-242839

and when I get the final price, I can say that is too high and walk out
they can then find ways to lower it or lose my sale

the phone company gives you the bill after you used their service and require you to pay it
you can't say that you don't like paying their fee for them and not pay it
you can't say "last month I paid this and now you raised the price I am not paying"

this is relevant because whether or not the car company is trying to use a fee to reimburse themselves is irrelevant as they give you a price and you can say that is good price or refuse it

the phone company says on the other hand, we need to collect more from you, your bill is the same but you strangely have to pay more and lie claiming the government is collecting the extra money not them
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darkphoenix181 posted...

you can't say that you don't like paying their fee for them and not pay it

That's just inherent in any post-payment service.

r4X0r posted...

orry that's not how it works. This is why I laugh so hard when silly leftists say things like "Raise corporate taxes!!!" Companies don't pay taxes. The consumers the fees are passed on to pay them.

The Universal Service Fund (USF) subsidizes communication services in rural areas. Thats the irony. Big City leftist dont benefit with this tax.
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cerealbox760 posted...

r4X0r posted...

orry that's not how it works. This is why I laugh so hard when silly leftists say things like "Raise corporate taxes!!!" Companies don't pay taxes. The consumers the fees are passed on to pay them.

The Universal Service Fund (USF) subsidizes communication services in rural areas. Thats the irony. Big City leftist dont benefit with this tax.

It also pays for the infamous "obamaphones".

Questionmarktarius posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

you can't say that you don't like paying their fee for them and not pay it

That's just inherent in any post-payment service.

except the kicker is that if they raise your actual bill, you can get out of paying it

see, my actual service charge is $51

if they want to raise the price of this part, they have to send me a letter in the mail explaining this or I can legally dispute it
because this is an agreed price

that is why they use the fees part to raise the price instead
which made my latest bill $58

they don't have to tell you they did it, just say taxes went up and the government is responsible
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darkphoenix181 posted...

they don't have to tell you they did it, just say taxes went up and the government is responsible

But, the taxes did go up.
https://www.fcc.gov/document/3rd-quarter-usf-contribution-factor-171-percent
https://www.fcc.gov/document/usf-factor-4th-quarter-2017-188-percent

If you're hunting for bullshit, dig up your January bill and June bill. The USF rates decreased for those quarters.

Questionmarktarius posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

they don't have to tell you they did it, just say taxes went up and the government is responsible

But, the taxes did go up.
https://www.fcc.gov/document/3rd-quarter-usf-contribution-factor-171-percent
https://www.fcc.gov/document/usf-factor-4th-quarter-2017-188-percent

If you're hunting for bullshit, dig up your January bill and June bill. The USF rates decreased in those quarters.

it is their tax that they pay to the government

The FCC does not require this charge to be passed on to you, but service providers are allowed to do so.

they had to pay the government more money yes

so they raised my bill to cover their butt without telling me like they are required to and under the pretense that they didn't raise my bill

they even claim it is a mandatory fee until you say "actually, did you know the FCC says it is not"

so no, taxes for my bill did not go up

some guy in their company made a decision that they needed to collect more money from me for their profits, but not break our agreement (which actually they did)
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darkphoenix181 posted...

they even claim it is a mandatory fee until you say "actually, did you know the FCC says it is not"

...that works?

Questionmarktarius posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

they even claim it is a mandatory fee until you say "actually, did you know the FCC says it is not"

...that works?

well the support rep admitted it after knowing I could read what the FCC says

so then their fallback is to claim collection of the fees is explained in the service agreement

so I said even if that is the case, you just lied to me that the government mandated you to collect this when the FCC says it is not mandated at all

they got flustered and hung up on me

isn't it really bad for support people to do that? in terms of keeping their job?
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also
http://time.com/money/4362527/fees-taxes-charges-cell-phone-bill/

Are you stuck with them? In some cases, Zulager says, BillPolice has been able to negotiate a credit on some administrative fees. But the best way to reduce the amount of fees you pay is just to lower your overall spending, she says. The lower your bill, the lower your taxes are going to be, because a lot of them are based off a percentage of your service charges.

so yea, you can negotiate sometimes, though it might not be worth your time, this is only a few dollars and they will give you pushback probably

or you can get $5 credits like I did in the past, like all I did was enquire what these fees were and the dude was too lazy to try to explain and gave me a credit

All providers must contribute to the federal Universal Service Fund, which funds initiatives such as the Connect America Fund, Lifeline and E-rate, according to the FCC. But while prepaid service providers like Cricket and MetroPCS absorb the cost, the Big Four carriers (AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, and Verizon) pass that cost along to you. Wireless customers pay about $5 billion annually in Federal Universal Service Fund surcharges, the Tax Foundation estimates. The FCC regulates this charge and adjusts the fee quarterly based on the funds current balance.

and it appear some smaller carriers don't ask you to pay FOR them
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Phone providers are the biggest scumbags man.
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Returning_CEmen posted...

Phone providers are the biggest scumbags man.

In the end I just wanted to raise awareness with this

it seems some people are just A-ok with unethical practices

I guess I should expect that though seeing how fast gamers defend unethical practices when it comes to games

and that is why nothing happens

oh well

at least some of you who want to try can get some credits on your bills
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