Poll of the Day > Why do Atheists want so much to convert Christians into non-believers?

(+) Yeah! (+)

mooreandrew58 posted...

to be fair thats different than actively trying to convert people. having an opinion isn't the same as trying to make people believe it to. there is a fine line in there somewhere between the two though.

Debatable. People don't usually state opinions just for the sake of stating opinions, especially on matters they feel strongly about (as is typically the case when discussing the underlying framework of morals that guides one's life). If somebody's expressing their assessment of something, it's usually with the intent of convincing other people of their position, or at least sparking discussion where involved parties further defend their opinions. There are varying degrees of such persuasion, of course, but any statement of opinion carries the implication of "I invite you to also try holding this opinion."

mooreandrew58 posted...

I mean cause if that is attempts at converting, then any christian who spews bible versus, openly talks about christianity in a positive manner on the regular is doing the same

They are. It's not the aggressive "you're going to hell if you don't convert" sort of conversion attempt, but it is definitely an invitation for others to share their faith.
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impatientperson posted...

adjl posted...

You can, but most of the money-related ills facing the world have nothing to do with religion. They're more about people exploiting other people and/or the planet for money, and you don't need religion to do that.

Sure but a lot of them (the social problems mainly) are also based in either racism or religious prejudice. There are so many laws that are based on stupid/antiquated religious principles.

There are, but as much press as they're getting, they aren't actually the basis for the problems that would qualify as "ruining the planet." Climate change is the biggest one, and that's 100% capitalism's fault.
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adjl posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

to be fair thats different than actively trying to convert people. having an opinion isn't the same as trying to make people believe it to. there is a fine line in there somewhere between the two though.

Debatable. People don't usually state opinions just for the sake of stating opinions, especially on matters they feel strongly about (as is typically the case when discussing the underlying framework of morals that guides one's life). If somebody's expressing their assessment of something, it's usually with the intent of convincing other people of their position, or at least sparking discussion where involved parties further defend their opinions. There are varying degrees of such persuasion, of course, but any statement of opinion carries the implication of "I invite you to also try holding this opinion."

mooreandrew58 posted...

I mean cause if that is attempts at converting, then any christian who spews bible versus, openly talks about christianity in a positive manner on the regular is doing the same

They are. It's not the aggressive "you're going to hell if you don't convert" sort of conversion attempt, but it is definitely an invitation for others to share their faith.

You seriously believe if a Christian says something like God is good, I feel so blessed today that theyre trying to convert people?
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ChaoticKnuckles posted...

You seriously believe if a Christian says something like God is good, I feel so blessed today that theyre trying to convert people?

As much as somebody who says "Mario Odyssey is a really good game" is trying to convince other people to try it out.
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adjl posted...

ChaoticKnuckles posted...

You seriously believe if a Christian says something like God is good, I feel so blessed today that theyre trying to convert people?

As much as somebody who says "Mario Odyssey is a really good game" is trying to convince other people to try it out.

Youre assuming peoples intentions. Im never trying to convince someone try out a game when I simply say that the game is good. If I want to get them to try it Ill just say You should try it. Youre basically saying that no one can make a positive or negative statement about anything without there being a persuasion motive behind it.
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adjl posted...

DistantMemory posted...

but out there in the meatspace it ain't atheists that are knocking on people's doors or trying to legislate their theological views.

It's pretty much just Mormons and JW's knocking on people's doors, and you definitely do get atheists trying to legislate the atheist equivalent of theological views (deeply-held moral beliefs, namely).

Not just "Mormons and JWs"!

I've had a total of zero athiests demand to know if I've been "saved". I've had zero athiests press flyers on me in parking lots. I've had zero athiest grocery cashiers tell me to have a "blessed" day. I've had zero athiest cashiers sneer at me for buying tarot cards or even a toy "magic 8-ball". I have no evangelistic athiests interrupting me by pounding on my door to invite me to their church.

I see zero " honk if you love Buddha" bumper stickers. I do have an "Isis, Isis! Ra! Ra! Ra!" bumper sticker, though, that I'm afraid to put on my car because I don't want to invite vandalism from bible-thumpers..

I guess that Xians don't notice how Xian crap pollutes daily living, does a fish notice water? It is really really offensive to the rest of us, though.
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ChaoticKnuckles posted...

adjl posted...

ChaoticKnuckles posted...

You seriously believe if a Christian says something like God is good, I feel so blessed today that theyre trying to convert people?

As much as somebody who says "Mario Odyssey is a really good game" is trying to convince other people to try it out.

Youre assuming peoples intentions. Im never trying to convince someone try out a game when I simply say that the game is good. If I want to get them to try it Ill just say You should try it. Youre basically saying that no one can make a positive or negative statement about anything without there being a persuasion motive behind it.

Again, there are varying degrees of persuasive speech. "You should try it" makes a much more persuasive statement than "this is good" on its own. Simply saying that it's good, though, is still sharing your joy with others, which in turn invites them to experience whatever it was that has given you that joy. It's not necessarily an intentional thing, but that is the nature of stating opinions. Nothing is ever just an opinion. Every statement of opinion has some persuasive power, and "it's just my opinion" just means the person doesn't feel strongly enough about the matter to defend it any further than they already have.
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Man this thread blew up. Is it still adjl pretending that atheists are as evangelical as religious people?

DistantMemory posted...

Man this thread blew up. Is it still adjl pretending that atheists are as evangelical as religious people?

Well apparently any statement you make, positive or negative, is an attempt to persuade whoever you made the statement to. If I say to you I like Chipotle apparently Im subconsciously trying to get you to go eat there too.
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DistantMemory posted...

Man this thread blew up. Is it still adjl pretending that atheists are as evangelical as religious people?

You sound very out of touch with what's actually being said here. You'd probably benefit from reading a bit more of the topic before commenting further.

dancer62 posted...

I've had zero athiest grocery cashiers tell me to have a "blessed" day.

That makes you sound like the sort of person who gets offended when a cashier says "merry Christmas."

dancer62 posted...

I've had zero athiest cashiers sneer at me for buying tarot cards or even a toy "magic 8-ball".

That surprises me, simply because there's no shortage of cynics who would sneer at those things regardless of any religious objections.

dancer62 posted...

I have no evangelistic athiests interrupting me by pounding on my door to invite me to their church.

And again, the door-knocking is mostly mormons and JW's, in the majority of the Christian-dominated world. That's a consequence of their doctrine explicitly including missionary work. Most other denominations don't do such things, so generalizing the practice to all Christians is incorrect.
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adjl posted...

DistantMemory posted...

Man this thread blew up. Is it still adjl pretending that atheists are as evangelical as religious people?

You sound very out of touch with what's actually being said here. You'd probably benefit from reading a bit more of the topic before commenting further.

dancer62 posted...

I've had zero athiest grocery cashiers tell me to have a "blessed" day.

That makes you sound like the sort of person who gets offended when a cashier says "merry Christmas."

dancer62 posted...

I've had zero athiest cashiers sneer at me for buying tarot cards or even a toy "magic 8-ball".

That surprises me, simply because there's no shortage of cynics who would sneer at those things regardless of any religious objections.

dancer62 posted...

I have no evangelistic athiests interrupting me by pounding on my door to invite me to their church.

And again, the door-knocking is mostly mormons and JW's, in the majority of the Christian-dominated world. That's a consequence of their doctrine explicitly including missionary work. Most other denominations don't do such things, so generalizing the practice to all Christians is incorrect.

I would agree that Catholics and Epicopalians aren't rabid proselytizers. They don't represent evangelical christians. Try living in Kansas, Missouri, or Oklahoma.

You've apparently never met any Baptists, Assembly of God, or any of the other rampant evangelicals. Unfortunately, I do live in the bible belt.

And, no, viewing harmless toys or icons of other cultures as "tools of the devil" is definitely a Christian conceit.
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dancer62 posted...

Unfortunately, I do live in the bible belt.

In which case, saying you haven't run into any condescending atheists doesn't actually mean much, since atheists are going to be too small of a minority to have that kind of presence there. Again, it's very much a regional thing. You're going to see far more evangelical christians and far fewer pushy atheists in the bible belt than you would elsewhere, especially in an urban setting.

dancer62 posted...

And, no, viewing harmless toys or icons of other cultures as "tools of the devil" is definitely a Christian conceit.

Specifically as tools of the devil? Yes, but that's kind of a tautological thing to say. More generally calling them superstitious nonsense? That's nothing unique, and certainly within the realm of atheistic condescension.
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adjl posted...

dancer62 posted...

Unfortunately, I do live in the bible belt.

In which case, saying you haven't run into any condescending atheists doesn't actually mean much, since atheists are going to be too small of a minority to have that kind of presence there. Again, it's very much a regional thing. You're going to see far more evangelical christians and far fewer pushy atheists in the bible belt than you would elsewhere, especially in an urban setting.

as I stated earlier I too live in a bible belt. while atheists might be a minority, their numbers are growing, and i've met many.

hell i'd dare say the last place I lived while still in a bible belt, had a large number of atheists. just religion still affected laws, and society in general
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adjl posted...

FolkenRawr posted...

Then again, no atheist has ever told my mother that she, my sisters and I are going to hell for not being Christians(Catholic)

To be fair, that's a pretty meaningless comment to anyone that doesn't already believe in Hell. It's still mean-spirited, but it's kind of like trying to curse a Jewish person by saying "may you never eat bacon again!"

so what you are saying is that starting an argument with the assumption that other people already agree with your viewpoint is stupid and meaningless?

did you learn anything about yourself from that statement, or do you just plug your ears and scream "NOTME NOTME NOTME!"
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dancer62 posted...

I've had zero athiest grocery cashiers tell me to have a "blessed" day.

The rest of your post has plenty to agree with but what is this? I really have difficulty understanding the objection to someone saying have a blessed day.

Troll_Police_ posted...

adjl posted...

FolkenRawr posted...

Then again, no atheist has ever told my mother that she, my sisters and I are going to hell for not being Christians(Catholic)

To be fair, that's a pretty meaningless comment to anyone that doesn't already believe in Hell. It's still mean-spirited, but it's kind of like trying to curse a Jewish person by saying "may you never eat bacon again!"

so what you are saying is that starting an argument with the assumption that other people already agree with your viewpoint is stupid and meaningless?

did you learn anything about yourself from that statement, or do you just plug your ears and scream "NOTME NOTME NOTME!"

Good Lord you're trying too hard. And coming from me, that's saying something.
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adjl posted...

Troll_Police_ posted...

adjl posted...

FolkenRawr posted...

Then again, no atheist has ever told my mother that she, my sisters and I are going to hell for not being Christians(Catholic)

To be fair, that's a pretty meaningless comment to anyone that doesn't already believe in Hell. It's still mean-spirited, but it's kind of like trying to curse a Jewish person by saying "may you never eat bacon again!"

so what you are saying is that starting an argument with the assumption that other people already agree with your viewpoint is stupid and meaningless?

did you learn anything about yourself from that statement, or do you just plug your ears and scream "NOTME NOTME NOTME!"

Good Lord you're trying too hard. And coming from me, that's saying something.

so yeah, just gonna plug those ears. got it.
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adjl posted...

Debatable. People don't usually state opinions just for the sake of stating opinions, especially on matters they feel strongly about (as is typically the case when discussing the underlying framework of morals that guides one's life). If somebody's expressing their assessment of something, it's usually with the intent of convincing other people of their position, or at least sparking discussion where involved parties further defend their opinions. There are varying degrees of such persuasion, of course, but any statement of opinion carries the implication of "I invite you to also try holding this opinion."

what a weird way to go through life assuming that about everyone, ok?
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why do religous people believe in their stories so much?

"my religion is right... your religion is made up"
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dancer62 posted...

adjl posted...

DistantMemory posted...

but out there in the meatspace it ain't atheists that are knocking on people's doors or trying to legislate their theological views.

It's pretty much just Mormons and JW's knocking on people's doors, and you definitely do get atheists trying to legislate the atheist equivalent of theological views (deeply-held moral beliefs, namely).

Not just "Mormons and JWs"!

I've had a total of zero athiests demand to know if I've been "saved". I've had zero athiests press flyers on me in parking lots. I've had zero athiest grocery cashiers tell me to have a "blessed" day. I've had zero athiest cashiers sneer at me for buying tarot cards or even a toy "magic 8-ball". I have no evangelistic athiests interrupting me by pounding on my door to invite me to their church.

I see zero " honk if you love Buddha" bumper stickers. I do have an "Isis, Isis! Ra! Ra! Ra!" bumper sticker, though, that I'm afraid to put on my car because I don't want to invite vandalism from bible-thumpers..

I guess that Xians don't notice how Xian crap pollutes daily living, does a fish notice water? It is really really offensive to the rest of us, though.

1. I'm atheist.
2. I love hearing "have a blessed day," it's sweet.
3. I would give you a strange look if believed a magic 8-ball had powers.
4. I would rip that sticker right off your car.
5. Don't lump me in ("the rest of us") with your ridiculous views on people.

The constant flyers and such are annoying, but I don't see how they could be seen by anyone as offensive.
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I try to avoid letting people know I'm an atheist, let alone try to convert them.

FourthDimension posted...

I try to avoid letting people know I'm an atheist, let alone try to convert them.

I know how you feel. i'm agnostic but lean atheist and i'm not even sure if most of my family is aware. but if directly asked about it I don't hide it.
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I'm personally an atheist, but it's frustrating as hell to watch other atheists try to "convert" people into believing there isn't a god. (AND vice versa.) For fuck's sake, they're the same people who get upset when religious people preach. Live and let live. Don't be a hypocrite.

People need to respect others' beliefs and leave them alone the same way that they want to be left alone.
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Troll_Police_ posted...

so yeah, just gonna plug those ears. got it.

That's also hilarious coming from you. You're on a roll today.

ZiggiStardust posted...

what a weird way to go through life assuming that about everyone, ok?

That's not really an assumption. That's just how discussions work.
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DistantMemory posted...

adjl posted...

DistantMemory posted...

Seems like you got that backwards.

Not really. It's not usually presented as "you must convert to the church of Dawkins," so I can understand your confusion, but a good many atheists are quite aggressive about trying to convince religious people they shouldn't be religious.

Yes really. You can judge your perception of atheists based on Internet activity on whichever obscure forum if you like, but out there in the meatspace it ain't atheists that are knocking on people's doors or trying to legislate their theological views.

...except they literally are. Atheists frequently try to push political change to limit or block religious elements. And, if you're ever met a real-life atheist, you'd know that many of them *are* pretty aggressive when it comes to trying to convert people.

As for literally knocking on doors, that's just Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons. The latter is somewhat regional (they have missionaries, but I've never once seen one) while the former is absurdly fringe (although I've met a few).

adjl posted...

DistantMemory posted...

but out there in the meatspace it ain't atheists that are knocking on people's doors or trying to legislate their theological views.

It's pretty much just Mormons and JW's knocking on people's doors, and you definitely do get atheists trying to legislate the atheist equivalent of theological views (deeply-held moral beliefs, namely).

Jen0125 posted...

Because religious people are ruining the planet with their bullshit.

Also not really. Most of the "ruining the planet" going on is a consequence of unchecked greed, which is the opposite of what most religions preach. That's not to say there aren't a whole lot of bad things going on in the name of some religion or another, but in terms of catastrophic global implications, it's those worshiping at the Temple of Mammon that you need to really worry about.

Oh, guess Adjl has this topic covered.
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Troll_Police_ posted...

adjl posted...

FolkenRawr posted...

Then again, no atheist has ever told my mother that she, my sisters and I are going to hell for not being Christians(Catholic)

To be fair, that's a pretty meaningless comment to anyone that doesn't already believe in Hell. It's still mean-spirited, but it's kind of like trying to curse a Jewish person by saying "may you never eat bacon again!"

so what you are saying is that starting an argument with the assumption that other people already agree with your viewpoint is stupid and meaningless?

did you learn anything about yourself from that statement, or do you just plug your ears and scream "NOTME NOTME NOTME!"

Not to mention my overall point was completely missed. For one, I've seen douchebag atheists/agnostics call the religious stupid, but I've never seen any actually wish ill will as I've absolutely seen religious folks do. Furthermore, my family is Jewish, I'm the one that isn't religious anymore in the least and have been looked down on for it. As an agnostic that was raised Jewish, cursing me with never having bacon is basically the most awful thing you could ever say to me. I love baecon.
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I used to be religious, there are many reasons.

Politically, they have a lot of policies I don't think are fair. Mentally, I find it relieving not having to worry about hell.

RCtheWSBC posted...

I don't have time or energy to go around trying to convert random people to believe anything

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Since this is a religion topic and @adjl is pretty active, I'd like to hear your feedback on this video, adjl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aKkS84GT4o

TsC_PoLiTiKz posted...

dancer62 posted...

adjl posted...

DistantMemory posted...

but out there in the meatspace it ain't atheists that are knocking on people's doors or trying to legislate their theological views.

It's pretty much just Mormons and JW's knocking on people's doors, and you definitely do get atheists trying to legislate the atheist equivalent of theological views (deeply-held moral beliefs, namely).

I've had zero athiest cashiers sneer at me for buying tarot cards or even a toy "magic 8-ball".

I see zero " honk if you love Buddha" bumper stickers. I do have an "Isis, Isis! Ra! Ra! Ra!" bumper sticker, though, that I'm afraid to put on my car because I don't want to invite vandalism from bible-thumpers..

1. I'm atheist.
2. I love hearing "have a blessed day," it's sweet.
3. I would give you a strange look if believed a magic 8-ball had powers.
4. I would rip that sticker right off your car.
5. Don't lump me in ("the rest of us") with your ridiculous views on people.

1. Ah, I've never run into a militant atheist before, you're the first.

2. I usually respond with "namaste" or "Blessed be" depending on my mood.

3. You really believe that toys have evil powers? Some atheist you are!

4. And no tolerance! No sense of humor either! Really, you'd vandalize someone's car? Would you prefer "My other car is a broom"?

5. Nope, you're certainly not what I had in mind for "the rest of us".
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NightShift posted...

RCtheWSBC posted...

I don't have time or energy to go around trying to convert random people to believe anything

I don't irl, but on the internet I'll be honest if I'm asked.

Zeus posted...

And, if you're ever met a real-life atheist, you'd know that many of them *are* pretty aggressive when it comes to trying to convert people.

I've met atheists that are openly derisive about religion, and I've met atheists that are perfectly happy to live and let live. It's not something you can really generalize that thoroughly.

FolkenRawr posted...

For one, I've seen douchebag atheists/agnostics call the religious stupid, but I've never seen any actually wish ill will as I've absolutely seen religious folks do.

It's worth noting that there's a distinct difference between "I hope you burn in Hell" and "you're going to burn in Hell." The former is wishing ill will, the latter is simply a statement of belief (albeit one that's very clearly meant to motivate some sort of behavioural change, since it's supposed to sound threatening). You probably also have seen atheists wish ill will over religious beliefs, even if it hasn't necessarily been for merely being religious. Sending death threats to anti-LGBT figures (sentiments which usually have a religious basis, given that that's the closest thing to a supporting argument anyone can come up with) are a good example of this.

FolkenRawr posted...

Furthermore, my family is Jewish, I'm the one that isn't religious anymore in the least and have been looked down on for it. As an agnostic that was raised Jewish, cursing me with never having bacon is basically the most awful thing you could ever say to me. I love baecon.

A possibility which I did not explicitly consider. In that case, just pretend I said something like "a person who is happily Jewish and has no desire to break kosher" instead of just "a Jewish person." In your case, may you continue to enjoy a healthy amount of bacon as desired for the remainder of your natural life.

R0R0N0A-Z0R0 posted...

Since this is a religion topic and @adjl is pretty active, I'd like to hear your feedback on this video, adjl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aKkS84GT4o

I'll take a look at it later, but I can't really right now.
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Everyone thinks they're correct and our societies are built upon the foundation of religion, as it was a one-size-fits-all for rules and explanations when virtually all people were basically just unwashed, ignorant savages. In many cases, for one to be right, another must be wrong. They're competing views that can't co-exist, like several gunslingers in a town that's too small for all of them.

Atheists see it as removing brainwashing and educating people, religious groups fear for the salvation of others who haven't heard their version of the truth. I would love to become a diehard Christian, I really would be happy to think there was an afterlife, but I just can't buy into it or any other belief structure that requires faith in the absence of evidence. I don't care if somebody agrees with me as long as they can comprehend and respect how I've reached whatever conclusion I did, and I extend the same to others. Most of my friends are pretty keen on Jesus, and it's cool... My only real beef is with people who think their opinion is a fact because of a bleeding heart (or because they're stupid) and simply don't want to listen to anyone else or come to an understanding. I love open discussions about religion when nobody expects to change any minds, and you only have an exchange of ideas and learn from each other. Shutting down a real debate is intolerable (by real, I mean back-and-forth, no obnoxious know-it-alls or falling back on name-calling, etc.).

I respect Protestantism from a cultural perspective, in the sense that it took a more archaic set of ideas and traditions that were necessary and allowed them to evolve while still maintaining order and unity, though ironically killing itself with progress like glasnost and perestroika in the USSR... If part of a new social hegemony held many benefits but required that I attend church, I'd have no objections to it for the sake of, I don't know, lowering the crime rate or whatever came along with it. I've totally gone off on a tangent at this point though...
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adjl posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

yeah I got into an argument with a friend online once, religion was apart of it. and he spouted off with "we must be living in two different americas" in kind of a snarky way trying to downplay my side of the argument, to which I had to reply "we sort of do, you live on the west coast and I live in the south east. i'm pretty sure there is a difference"

Eeyup. America's not exactly culturally uniform even when you don't count immigrants (though technically every non-native culture in America was an immigrant one at some point, so defining that is hard, but that's beside the point). There are many different Americas, which is weird to realize when using the Internet to pretend everyone's right next to you.

In all honesty, that's what I love about this country.
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First off- you don't "convert" a Christian. You de-brainwash them.

Second- who cares? It's just not worth the time it's like teaching a dog to read or a monkey to roller skate. Atheists don't care about you. Get over it.

Just stop pretending your beliefs are fact and using them as a source of authority.

Trekkies don't go around talking to non Star Trek people the wisdom of Star Trek and using it as a source of authority to tell others how to live their lives.

If religious people could at least rise to the level of Trekkies the world would be better off.
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Kefka64 posted...

Why do Atheists want so much to convert Christians into non-believers?

I'm a Atheist and it honestly doesn't matter to me what others believe in providing they don't try and force their beliefs onto me. The more I think about it the more I kinda envy the people who have a faith as in most cases it seems to help them get through life and deal with it's problems more easy. Plus I bet it's nice to feel confident in a life after death. It doesn't really matter if it's true or not as the effect religion has on people in clearly real so eh.
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adjl posted...

That's just how I assume discussions work.

ftfy, ok?
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Conner4REAL posted...

First off- you don't "convert" a Christian. You de-brainwash them.

Second- who cares? It's just not worth the time it's like teaching a dog to read or a monkey to roller skate. Atheists don't care about you. Get over it.

Just stop pretending your beliefs are fact and using them as a source of authority.

Trekkies don't go around talking to non Star Trek people the wisdom of Star Trek and using it as a source of authority to tell others how to live their lives.

If religious people could at least rise to the level of Trekkies the world would be better off.

Props for the user name.
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Don't really think it's converting. I just wish people would lean more toward, facts, common sense and principles of science to make their decisions, laws and morality..etc.. instead of fantasy and myth.
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TheNeckbeard posted...

I just wish people would lean more toward, facts, common sense and principles of science to make their decisions, laws and morality..etc.. instead of fantasy and myth.

that a amusing statement as anything can be twisted even what we assume is "facts/truths/morals" from religion too common sense and principles of science any of those can be bent to serve a agenda.

i personal enjoy religious belief ( thu i hate those that bind themselves to only one belief/truth as anything possible even no god/s. ) as it set rules to follow in a world were man is very much self serving and his moral choice can very greatly depending on the day. laws don't always deter people sometimes fear of a god judging or saving them is just enough to keep them been good.

science truth changes based on what we learn, even now were speaking of the possibility of other earths were infinite things are capable of happening. that means that it would only take one of those infinite worlds to have a god/s for it to be possible for one to exist even here.

maybe are god/s got tired of are shit an really does not care who believes an does not an want us to make it to the other side are self, or rot in the nothing that you believe will happen when you die.

TLDR

no one knows the truth no matter what book you point at, person who swear by it, 100 year from now a new truth will exist an new lies will be told. embrace whatever you want to believe an when we die will see who indeed was right.
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