Poll of the Day > it's stupid to get in trouble for pirating books tbh

(+) Yeah! (+)

you either pirate the book, or go to a library and get the book. either way, you'll have read the book without paying for it.

so like

earlier I read some posts attacking people who pirate books, and their entire argument was that libraries existed.

that's a dumb argument even if it makes sense.
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But the library paid for those books.
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Difference being you're actually borrowing a book from a library. I mean by your logic it's ok to pirate games as you could just borrow it from a friend anyway.
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Its stupid that people try to steal horses. (notice I didn't use a past tense)

But its not exclusive helly, you can't just go around pirating something you might "think" is insignificant.
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Foppe posted...

But the library paid for those books.

and someone had to buy the book you downloaded, then remove the drm.
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wwinterj25 posted...

Difference being you're actually borrowing a book from a library. I mean by your logic it's ok to pirate games as you could just borrow it from a friend anyway.

that's also a legitimate argument. you're still playing the game without having paid for it.

someone paid for it, you didn't.

same scenario with the books. someone paid for it, you didn't.

what makes reading a book from a library different from just downloading the book and reading it? most libraries even offer movies, some even have games. all available to you, free of charge.
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The answer to piracy will come when someone finally comes up with a satisfactory answer to the following question: how does one make someone pay for something that they can get for free?
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i mean, I pay for games, movies, music, all that.

but why pay for a book when a library exists? I get that collecting books would be a big, if not the only, reason to do so. you like a specific series so you want a physical object to look at and collect, I get that. I do that.

but for some one off book I'm sort of interested in reading, but I don't think it's worth the $15 they want for it... im probably gonna go to the library.

and if someone already has that book checked out, I'm not gonna just go "gee golly, I'll be back in a week or two when they bring it back and hope no one else snags it before I do."

and there's libraries that actually work with ebooks! you can check out digital versions that will just expire and not let you access them anymore after so long. which is fine, because you already finished the book. are you gonna read it again a week later? alternatively, you've finished the book you illegally downloaded.

are you not going to just delete it afterwards?
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Like I said... how do you make someone pay for something that they can get for free?
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helIy posted...

what makes reading a book from a library different from just downloading the book and reading it?

Ease of access, mostly. When you borrow a book from the library, you can't keep it indefinitely, and nobody else can borrow it, so the cost of the book is still allowing just one person at a time to use the book (or maybe 2-3 if you get really cozy). Pirating creates a new copy for no additional cost, though, and can be kept indefinitely. That's a privilege you normally have to buy your own copy for.
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helIy posted...

same scenario with the books. someone paid for it, you didn't.

Libraries are paid for by our taxes. So in part, I paid for those books

BTB posted...

Like I said... how do you make someone pay for something that they can get for free?

Well, you cant. If someone doesnt want to pay, theyll steal it. And there will always be thieves.
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How about buying the book because you appreciate the effort that the author put into writing it?

Your logic is flawed. I'm paying for the use of the library with my taxes.

You're basically advocating stealing.
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green dragon posted...

helIy posted...

same scenario with the books. someone paid for it, you didn't.

Libraries are paid for by our taxes. So in part, I paid for those books

they're mostly kept up with by donations

extremely little of your tax money goes there. in a year you might have put $2 into your local library
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helIy posted...

green dragon posted...

helIy posted...

same scenario with the books. someone paid for it, you didn't.

Libraries are paid for by our taxes. So in part, I paid for those books

they're mostly kept up with by donations

extremely little of your tax money goes there. in a year you might have put $2 into your local library

Perhaps thats how it works in your country, but not over here.
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What a novel concept, a public receptacle for art where it can be appreciated by anyone free of charge. If only that business model were the standard or something...
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helIy posted...

wwinterj25 posted...

Difference being you're actually borrowing a book from a library. I mean by your logic it's ok to pirate games as you could just borrow it from a friend anyway.

that's also a legitimate argument. you're still playing the game without having paid for it.

someone paid for it, you didn't.

same scenario with the books. someone paid for it, you didn't.

what makes reading a book from a library different from just downloading the book and reading it? most libraries even offer movies, some even have games. all available to you, free of charge.

difference between borrowing a book/game whatever versus pirating is in one scenario only one legally made copy exists. with piracy now multiple copies exist and can be distributed to many people who never have to return it to the original owner. sure you can borrow a game from a friend, but whats the likelyhood said friend is going to loan the same game out to hundreds or thousands of people.
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BTB posted...

What a novel concept, a public receptacle for art where it can be appreciated by anyone free of charge. If only that business model were the standard or something...

Let me see if I'm following you. Are you suggesting the internet be tax-funded in some way such as libraries are, maybe grants, or endowments, and that the public should be able to utilize it's content for free? Including media like movies, music, and video games? That's an interesting idea. Unless you were saying something different.
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That's exactly what I'm suggesting, yes.
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BTB posted...

That's exactly what I'm suggesting, yes.

wouldn't it be hard to tax the internet (or considered wrong at least) considering it exists internationally?
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Yes, it would.

I'm not an economist, so obviously I can't explain the finer details or any of the problems such a business model would run into. What I am saying is that, from a logical standpoint, it's the business model that makes the most sense.
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BTB posted...

Yes, it would.

I'm not an economist, so obviously I can't explain the finer details or any of the problems such a business model would run into. What I am saying is that, from a logical standpoint, it's the business model that makes the most sense.

yeah neither am I (though I did make straight As in the class but that was in middle school well over a decade ago) thats why I asked lol.
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mooreandrew58 posted...

helIy posted...

wwinterj25 posted...

Difference being you're actually borrowing a book from a library. I mean by your logic it's ok to pirate games as you could just borrow it from a friend anyway.

that's also a legitimate argument. you're still playing the game without having paid for it.

someone paid for it, you didn't.

same scenario with the books. someone paid for it, you didn't.

what makes reading a book from a library different from just downloading the book and reading it? most libraries even offer movies, some even have games. all available to you, free of charge.

difference between borrowing a book/game whatever versus pirating is in one scenario only one legally made copy exists. with piracy now multiple copies exist and can be distributed to many people who never have to return it to the original owner. sure you can borrow a game from a friend, but whats the likelyhood said friend is going to loan the same game out to hundreds or thousands of people.

who cares if they still have it, though? what are you going to do with it? read it again?

no, you're probably just going to delete it afterwards. keeping a digital book library is pointless.
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People still try to argue with helly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Rdf0n_Lsg
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yeah that sounds about right.

hell, i'm even wearing a blue shirt rn, dude fits me to a T.
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helIy posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

helIy posted...

wwinterj25 posted...

Difference being you're actually borrowing a book from a library. I mean by your logic it's ok to pirate games as you could just borrow it from a friend anyway.

that's also a legitimate argument. you're still playing the game without having paid for it.

someone paid for it, you didn't.

same scenario with the books. someone paid for it, you didn't.

what makes reading a book from a library different from just downloading the book and reading it? most libraries even offer movies, some even have games. all available to you, free of charge.

difference between borrowing a book/game whatever versus pirating is in one scenario only one legally made copy exists. with piracy now multiple copies exist and can be distributed to many people who never have to return it to the original owner. sure you can borrow a game from a friend, but whats the likelyhood said friend is going to loan the same game out to hundreds or thousands of people.

who cares if they still have it, though? what are you going to do with it? read it again?

no, you're probably just going to delete it afterwards. keeping a digital book library is pointless.

I have a step sister that re reads books a lot actually. just ya know like 3-5 years later.
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helIy posted...

yeah that sounds about right.

hell, i'm even wearing a blue shirt rn, dude fits me to a T.

You're the donkey
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Checking books out of a library gets more funding for that library and supports the authors when the libraries buy the books
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Mead posted...

Checking books out of a library gets more funding for that library and supports the authors when the libraries buy the books

yeah and even though I don't often use libraries I do consider them important in a world where a lot of places do online only applications and not everyone can afford a computer. and most libraries do give access to computers.
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Action53 posted...

helIy posted...

yeah that sounds about right.

hell, i'm even wearing a blue shirt rn, dude fits me to a T.

You're the donkey

no you're the donkey

don't be rude dude
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BTB posted...

Like I said... how do you make someone pay for something that they can get for free?

make it accessible. the easier it is to get a product the less likely people are to deal with trying to download it illegally

anondum posted...

BTB posted...

Like I said... how do you make someone pay for something that they can get for free?

make it accessible. the easier it is to get a product the less likely people are to deal with trying to download it illegally

this. sure it won't apply to everyone, but i'm not going to lie and say i've never pirated say a video game, but in every case I have, I currently had no feasible way to access said game that I was aware of at the moment. its always been games 20 or more years old. I ended up buying a 2ds just for the majority of my library being old NES and gameboy games so I didn't have to resort to that anymore. 5 bucks for a old nes game isn't a bad asking price, and i'm willing to pay that over paying a second hand dealer, as the company who made the game gets the money and i'd rather support the makers in hopes they'll continue making good products
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helIy posted...

what makes reading a book from a library different from just downloading the book and reading it?

The difference is only one person can read it at a time or in the borrow a vide game example, only one person can play it.

And yes that matters. Because if it didnt than only one person would ever need to buy a video game, then everyone else in the world can just play it free because someone already bought it.
Yeah, that doesnt really work now does it?
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idk about you, but my library has multiple copies of books

they also offer to let you borrow digital versions of books and there's no limit to how many times it can be borrowed at once.

so what else do you have
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BTB posted...

That's exactly what I'm suggesting, yes.

I like that idea. No idea how something like that would be implemented, but it would be great.
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They're never going to stop people pirating things. They really just waste money trying to stop it and coming up with ways to hinder it when those usually get work arounds.
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As a published author, I resent the idea that something I've spent months researching, editing, etc. should be given away to people for FREE. Nobody in this life gets 'something for nothing', not even rich people (even if they think they do). Libraries buy books with our tax dollars; so they're not getting books for free and neither are their patrons (which is everyone btw). To me pirating books, etc. is theft, pure and simple since you're taking food out of peoples' mouths (if you don't like the pricing go complain to the middlemen and not the authors, musicians, etc.)

GastroFan posted...

Libraries buy books with our tax dollars;

and someone has to actually buy the book digitally, pay taxes on it, ect. to be able to allow other people to pirate it

it's literally the exact same as what a library does

literally in both cases someone is buying the book, and multiple people are reading it free as a result.
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helIy posted...

it's literally the exact same as what a library does

Nah, the person buying the digital version and putting it online probably doesn't use taxes to buy them.
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helIy posted...

idk about you, but my library has multiple copies of books

They bought the book multiple times.

helIy posted...

they also offer to let you borrow digital versions of books and there's no limit to how many times it can be borrowed at once.

so what else do you have

They pay for the licensing.

Youre just trolling right? Youre not actually THAT dense are you?
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ZBug_ posted...

They pay for the licensing.

yeah it's still the same thing as buying the physical book buddy.

and regardless, that still doesn't refute a single thing i've said, period.
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helIy posted...

ZBug_ posted...

They pay for the licensing.

yeah it's still the same thing as buying the physical book buddy.

Thats my point genius.
helIy posted...

and regardless, that still doesn't refute a single thing i've said, period.

Libraries pay for books and the right to rent them out.
Thats not remotely the same as pirating.
Your argument is null.

Beside that, Ive never actually heard of anyone getting caught for pirating e-books, so Im not sure why youre complaining about it. Technically you COULD pirate a book and not get in trouble. And I doubt it would take you much effort either.
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ZBug_ posted...

Libraries pay for books and the right to rent them out.

Rent them? I didn't know you had to pay money to use the library. Unless you returned the book late of course. But when I've used the library, they've never asked for,

first and last rent
a deposit
monthly rent fee

Nope, none of those things. It's almost as if, you're just borrowing the book from the library. Then you take it back and someone else can borrow it.
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AllstarSniper32 posted...

ZBug_ posted...

Libraries pay for books and the right to rent them out.

Rent them? I didn't know you had to pay money to use the library. Unless you returned the book late of course. But when I've used the library, they've never asked for,

first and last rent
a deposit
monthly rent fee

Nope, none of those things. It's almost as if, you're just borrowing the book from the library. Then you take it back and someone else can borrow it.

You pay money if all the pages of the dozen erotic novels you return are stucked together.

They have to burn those books and replace them.
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Your libraries argument is flawed in multiple ways. First off, the distribution isn't equivalent. As soon as someone leaks a release online, everyone can get it. Libraries only serve a limited area and typically there are restrictions for people using a library that don't live in the area it serves, so already libraries are paying for multiple copies of the work vs the one leak online. And various systems that libraries use for e-rentals put restrictions on the concurrent amount of rentals for a single work. Secondly there is no guarantee an online leak came from a legitimate purchase in the first place. Thirdly publishers charge different rates to libraries than to the public.

helIy posted...

most libraries even offer movies, some even have games. all available to you, free of charge.

helIy posted...

i mean, I pay for games, movies, music, all that.

but why pay for a book when a library exists?

If you're going to pirate something you're going to pirate something. But stop pretending you're in the morally or legally right, and if you're going to (mis)use libraries as a justification for pirating stuff, at least be consistent about it.

Bonampak posted...

You pay money if all the pages of the dozen erotic novels you return are stucked together.

XD
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sveksii posted...

First off, the distribution isn't equivalent.

it's 1:1 the same, already pointed this out

sveksii posted...

Secondly there is no guarantee an online leak came from a legitimate purchase in the first place.

you can donate books to a library. there's no guarantee a donated book wasn't a stolen book

sveksii posted...

Thirdly publishers charge different rates to libraries than to the public.

typically only non-fiction books are discounted.
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