Current Events > The older I get, the more it hurts when I hear friends' success with women.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Obviously I'm happy for them, but it just sucks because I'll be single forever and knowing that I'm more and more alone with my situation is hard sometimes.

I think I'm at a point of acceptance where it doesn't bother me too much with my day to day life, but specifically when it involves friends or a friend getting into a relationship or whatever is where it's harder to avoid. Sometimes these guys ask me for advice which makes no sense to me.
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alt4445 posted...

Obviously I'm happy for them, but it just sucks because I'll be single forever and knowing that I'm more and more alone with my situation is hard sometimes.

I think I'm at a point of acceptance where it doesn't bother me too much with my day to day life, but specifically when it involves friends or a friend getting into a relationship or whatever is where it's harder to avoid. Sometimes these guys ask me for advice which makes no sense to me.

They might want to know if you notice things they are blind to because of the emotional connection.
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I've been single for 3 years. Beat that.
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Pepys Monster posted...

I've been single for 3 years. Beat that.

I got like 8 years and Im not even salty. I incourage my only couple of friends to pursue women.
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@alt4445

Get a few sexy escorts, and then I think you will be ok.
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Offworlder1 posted...

@alt4445

Get a few sexy escorts, and then I think you will be ok.

I've done that and it helped in a number of ways
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Then do it again boy, you obviously know it works so get back to getting a sexy woman.
@alt4445
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Offworlder1 posted...

Then do it again boy, you obviously know it works so get back to getting a sexy woman.
@alt4445

That was in European countries though, where it's legal. Aint legal in the US.
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Unless you go blabbing to the cops getting an escort is legal, hiring someone for sex is illegal, paying for her to spend time with you is not illegal.
@alt4445
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Why do you feel like you'll be alone forever, if you obviously don't want to be? Theres plenty of lonely women out there, that would devote themselves to you in return for just a little respect.
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I'm the same way, except I don't have friends. It's seeing all the successful people on here that tends to end up bothering me.

alt4445 posted...

Offworlder1 posted...

@alt4445

Get a few sexy escorts, and then I think you will be ok.

I've done that and it helped in a number of ways

Haha, like this. Fml...
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snakes_righteye posted...

Why do you feel like you'll be alone forever, if you obviously don't want to be? Theres plenty of lonely women out there, that would devote themselves to you in return for just a little respect.

Lots of reasons

-I have virtually no success online, which lets me know I'm ugly.

-I'm scared of physically making moves.

-I've had near miraculous bad luck. It's honestly unreal sometimes, so much so that even my friends notice.

-I have very little self esteem in this area of life. I think there's something wrong with me, that I'm unlovable, and that she couldn't just do way better with some different guy.

-I'm sick of getting so close to a relationship but never getting it.

-I'm probably more picky than I should be. I don't need a girl to look smoking or anything, but I do want someone that's not obese and a face I find cute.

-There's some interplay of flirtation/dating that I just don't understand. I don't know what the real issue is. I don't know if I'm overthinking it, if I truly don't get it, or if I'm totally normal but ugly/unfortunate so I never get the opportunity. Just that I feel like there's this weird interplay of push/pull/breaking rapport/creating rapport and, while I get it on a conceptual level, and think I could do it, perhaps I just don't get it. I think it's absolutely crazy that guys can still pursue a girl that doesn't seem too into them, but guys (and even women!) almost expect this behavior. Like, when a girl likes a guy and flirts with him, she makes it incredibly easy to flirt back. It's like she's putting the hoop at 2ft high, it's so easy to get a slam dunk if the net's lowered right? But some guys will just keep jumping even if the hoop is at 7 ft with no regard, and I don't have that kind of tenacity.

-On some level, I feel as if I'm not ready for dating or a relationship. I've had the opportunity to go on a few dates, and even though I could've totally gone through with it, idk. The two I'm thinking of off the top of my head, the first girl, we had some schedule conflicts, and I feel like I totally could've worked through it, but I just didn't feel like it. The second girl seemed down too, but idk. I just talk myself out of it, and I'm not like SO interested in the girl where I feel like I can override that voice.

-I feel like I don't care enough to pursue girls that I don't know. I'm tired of being the one leading the interaction and, before, when I would daydream about what kinda girl is this, who is she, where's she from, etc, I just don't care anymore. Why would I ever waste my time trying to entertain and get to know someone that has almost no interest in reciprocating even a fraction of that.

tldr: I'm ugly, I'm both scared and tired of getting rejected, I have the worst luck in the world, and I'm a hot mess.
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Lol, no one CEmen get clowned a lot.
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You probably won't believe this, but looks don't matter all that much. To some girls it will, but the majority of girls will be fine dating anyone that is interesting, funny, and respectful. I struggled on online dating sites too, but I do fine in in person conversations, and hooking up. I have a picture in the most recent selfie topic, you can see I'm average at best, but I've had my share of relationships and random hook ups.

The negativity is a problem. I'm sure you'll find a girl Somewhere Out There that enjoys the negativity but most will be turned off by it.

Girls will give you subtle hints that she likes you and wants you to continue to pursue her. She'll touch you or she'll look at you right in the eyes for what might feel like an uncomfortable amount of time. She laughs at your jokes even though they're not funny. Oh a lot of girls still play hard to get. The Girl I'm dating now I had to jump through those 7/8 or even 12 ft hoops to get her interested. It's almost like a test to see how hard you will pursue.

Girls are misunderstood by a lot of guys. They think they are a completely different type of human. Girls are just like guys there's aggressive girls or passive girls there's girls obsessed with sex there's asexual girls there's gay girls. There's girls that like dark morbid things there's girls that like butterflies and pink rainbows. Gamer girls girls that race cars girls that work on cars girls that work in factories girls that lift weights. They aren't some strange puzzle they're just strange humans like everybody else.

You may be socially awkward you may not be able to perceive the subtle hints that girls give you but I guarantee you you are not too ugly to find a girl.
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alt4445 posted...

Lots of reasons (...)

1) Even if you consider yourself ugly, this is not static. Maybe you think your face isn't attractive, and that might be hard to change. But perhaps the right haircut, a certain amount of weight loss or gain, or a change in dress style can do wonders to change this perception.

2) This is just like any other phobia, and if it is as severe as you seemingly imply, there are therapies or medications available to help with this. They don't solve the issue, but they give you the means to address them/work on them.

3) Relationships are organic. When I was young, and stupid, and naive (and it's debatable I'm not those things anymore, hah), I had a ton of trouble too with respect to the fact that I'd have crushes and I'd pursue them. It never worked. They way I met my wife and began a relationship was much more organic. I was simply living my life and doing the things I liked to do. It didn't become, "hey there is this new girl I really like and will make a conscious effort to pursue." It was more of an afterthought. "Hey, this girl wants to do something with me this weekend...why not." You cannot have the goal of "I want a girlfriend" because this bleeds into your behavior and affect a little too much. You might not notice it. The girl might not consciously register it. But it is there. And it does impact how they receive you.

4) To follow up on point 3, the goal should be self-improvement and actualization. Make changes in your life solely for yourself. Do things outside of your comfort zone only because it's what you want and you want to grow. When you lead the life you're proud of leading, it shows. It exudes attractiveness. People want to be a part of that journey. If you're lost in the "sea of life", with many disappointments, it's a hard bargain to find someone with their shit together and someone worth sharing with.

5) I recognize it's tough for someone who already feels down and hopeless on this to make these changes. Start gradually. Try cooking new meals at home you normally don't. Add a gym routine if you haven't. Read books on topics you've been interested in but haven't gotten around to it. Maybe in several months, the gym changes start to be a bit more apparent. You start dressing a bit nicer (not expensive, just not basketball shorts and graphic tees anymore). You start to feel a bit more confident. Maybe that puts you somewhere emotionally in a better spot to just try the Tinder game or something for the goal of simply having a fun night. Continue doing this and eventually, you'll jive with someone.

But if you pine and brood over what you don't have, it'll never come. Good luck dude.
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snakes_righteye posted...

Girls are misunderstood by a lot of guys. They think they are a completely different type of human.

Idk, there are managers and bosses all around the world that are totally different people, but if you suck at interviewing, you wont get by any of them. It's not the fact that they're girls, it's the fact that you're trying to be special to whatever girl you're into.

Also, the tricky thing is that you can't exactly just treat girls like they're anyone else. As in, girls you're into. If you truly did treat them like anyone else, then none of them would be interested in you. If you were to really treat a girl like they were anyone else, they'd think you're not interested, already have a woman, or not into women in general. The main thing I'm saying is that even though they are just like everyone else, if you're looking for something more than you look for with anyone else, it doesn't make sense that you'd interact just like you would with anyone else.

snakes_righteye posted...

The negativity is a problem. I'm sure you'll find a girl Somewhere Out There that enjoys the negativity but most will be turned off by it.

Going out to meet girls by sharing how hard it is to meet girls with them sounds like a bad move. I don't think many people enjoy the negativity but the negativity is stopping me from finding girls that would enjoy it in the first place.

snakes_righteye posted...

She'll touch you or she'll look at you right in the eyes for what might feel like an uncomfortable amount of time. She laughs at your jokes even though they're not funny.

Those signs are obvious to me. If she touches me in a flirty way or makes eye contact for weird amounts of time, she's obviously into me. The problem is that hardly anyone even does those obvious green flags to me, so I'm forced to interpret these yellow flags all the time and try to convince myself if it's red or green. And people in general throw mixed signals all the time, which includes girls. So I'm going to say girls throw mixed signals because I have no idea if guys do since I haven't been interested in any guys.

snakes_righteye posted...

I guarantee you you are not too ugly to find a girl.

Maybe my looks are good enough to get a girl I think is cute, but there's other stuff that goes into it, like, the worse I look the more I have to be used to, or okay with, getting rejected. And like I said, I'm not exactly the most comfortable person with getting rejected. I have to be way more bold and outgoing with worse looks, and being sexually bold is still hard for me to do.
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Mood
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alt4445 posted...

If you truly did treat them like anyone else, then none of them would be interested in you.

Not exactly true. If you aren't getting "any bites" naturally, perhaps it is because you aren't leading an interesting enough life. If you do enough things outside of the typical social settings people meet each other (bars, clubs, online, etc) you'll much more likely find someone in a shared interest.

If you act differently around women you're interested in--it actually makes a lot of sense you're having difficulty.

Well, I should reiterate. There definitely is a persona you can adopt, especially in those bar/club/tinder settings, that might be more successful for hook-ups. But if you're legitimately more interested in a relationship, that strategy isn't conducive to finding someone you're compatible with.
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Soviet_Poland posted...

5) I recognize it's tough for someone who already feels down and hopeless on this to make these changes. Start gradually. Try cooking new meals at home you normally don't. Add a gym routine if you haven't. Read books on topics you've been interested in but haven't gotten around to it. Maybe in several months, the gym changes start to be a bit more apparent.

I've gone from 270lb to 150lb, I cook and prepare all my own meals (to the gram when I'm cutting), I've started making music after being hesitant for so long, and I pretty much always have something planned for the weekends (and sometimes weekdays). I have a new job in something I like, though I'm still not financially very stable (I have enough to live and barely any extra). I love going to concerts and raves, I attend tournaments, I sometimes attend random events in the city, sometimes I go to board game meetups, and I have a good variety in people I hang with. I had literally the best vacation I could've realistically gotten this past month. I've literally done a lot of things to purposely break out of my comfort zone (albeit not as much now as when I was younger and more hopeful) especially since I have social anxiety. I can't see my social or personal life get much better than this until I start making good money one day.

None of that shit ever makes a difference. I'm still at square one, in regards to having a relationship, no matter what I've done and how far I've come. I understand that having a girl wont make me happy, but like, when any and all of my interest/curiosity has been met with rejection over and over, it starts to hurt sometimes.

The reason that this stuff doesn't effect me too much in my day to day life is specifically that I've done what you said. Just ignore the fact that I don't have a girl and try to do stuff that I want to do and not base success or fun in having a girl. In other words, just having fun on my own and realizing that having a woman wont save me. And honestly, just accepting that I'll be alone is a relief in some ways because it's like a world where I never get rejected because I never bother to try. That alone helps me deal with it day to day because this used to effect me a lot more. Just that, when it's something I'm forced to deal with (like a friend having success with women), it opens up that wound again.
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I did make it seem overly simple. Relationships and understanding each other can be complicated.

You were talking about treating girls differently because you like them or because you want them to like you. I'm not so sure you should do that. I'm not an expert I'm just a regular guy. But from my experience most girls appreciate it when you just treat them like they're anybody else. I treat most girls that I meet like they were my male friends. There are all kinds of different people and all kinds of different relationships. Some girls want a guy to dote on her and treat her like a princess. Some girls want to be treated more equally it all depends on the people and the type of relationship. I prefer the equality. I just be myself, inappropriate comments and all, and if the girl doesn't like that then it just wasn't meant to be.

In my personal experience I have found that I find better relationships and more sexual activity when I don't try so hard. Like the other poster said he was just living his life and his relationship was an organic thing.
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I hear you. I can't fault you on your living habits then, because it sounds like you're doing excellent in that regard.

Yeah, other than perhaps getting the social anxiety evaluated, I don't really have any other advice for you. Perhaps emphasizing this desire for someone else in your life a little less will be a blessing, in that you won't notice the passage of time until you do meet that person.

As annoying as "you'll find that person when you aren't looking" sounds to someone in your position, it's certainly held true for a lot of people (myself included) that I've known.
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Soviet_Poland posted...

If you act differently around women you're interested in--it actually makes a lot of sense you're having difficulty.

People have different dynamics for everything. You talk to your boss differently than your close friends, you talk to a child different from a 40 year old, you talk to your mom different than your aunt, etc.

You even talk to guys you want to be friends with differently than guys you don't want to be friends with. Like, being more excited to speak, thinking of more ways to move the conversation forward, etc.

So why wouldn't [girl you are interested in] have its own dynamic? Clearly there is going to be a different tone from me talking to a girl I like vs me talking to my female cousin. There is simply a range of tone/mood/dialogue/emotion that the former has that the latter doesn't.

Otherwise you're saying that you talking to a girl that's single and you're interested, vs you talking to your friend's GF, would look exactly the same. In my opinion, they definitely don't look the same. And for the sake of discussion, lets say that they actually did look the same. Like, the single girl is flirting back with you and the friend's gf is flirting back with you. You definitely don't behave exactly the same way in both scenarios. You might try to set up boundaries with the 2nd girl that you wouldn't have with the first girl. The fact that the dynamic is different becomes apparent.
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alt4445 posted...

People have different dynamics for everything. You talk to your boss differently than your close friends, you talk to a child different from a 40 year old, you talk to your mom different than your aunt, etc.

You even talk to guys you want to be friends with differently than guys you don't want to be friends with. Like, being more excited to speak, thinking of more ways to move the conversation forward, etc.

So why wouldn't [girl you are interested in] have its own dynamic? Clearly there is going to be a different tone from me talking to a girl I like vs me talking to my female cousin. There is simply a range of tone/mood/dialogue/emotion that the former has that the latter doesn't.

Otherwise you're saying that you talking to a girl that's single and you're interested, vs you talking to your friend's GF, would look exactly the same. In my opinion, they definitely don't look the same.

You're absolutely right. I guess in that sense, I was trying to convey that the more "worked up" said dynamic is with a potential romantic interest, the less likely you are to be compatible.

Anyone can follow a formula to be surface-level charismatic. Can lead to short term dating success. But once the persona ends, where does the relationship stand? This is why a lot of relationships end, when the "honeymoon" phase is over.

The golden ticket is finding that person you're compatible with when you're most at your baseline. Perhaps that's the best "dynamic." Because you're going to spend more time with this person than interactions with your professional relationships or your drinking buddies.
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alt4445 posted...

Soviet_Poland posted...

If you act differently around women you're interested in--it actually makes a lot of sense you're having difficulty.

People have different dynamics for everything. You talk to your boss differently than your close friends, you talk to a child different from a 40 year old, you talk to your mom different than your aunt, etc.

You even talk to guys you want to be friends with differently than guys you don't want to be friends with. Like, being more excited to speak, thinking of more ways to move the conversation forward, etc.

So why wouldn't [girl you are interested in] have its own dynamic? Clearly there is going to be a different tone from me talking to a girl I like vs me talking to my female cousin. There is simply a range of tone/mood/dialogue/emotion that the former has that the latter doesn't.

Otherwise you're saying that you talking to a girl that's single and you're interested, vs you talking to your friend's GF, would look exactly the same. In my opinion, they definitely don't look the same.

This is where I think you think about it to much. I do talk to my boss the same way as everyone else. I do talk to my friends wives the same as anyone else. Obviously there are things you will say to people you are close to that you don't say to strangers, but for the most part, I think it's good not to play parts for people. Just be you to everyone you meet. I can tell when people are trying to play a part and fit in, or put on an act to be liked. It usually doesn't work, and has the opposite effect.
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snakes_righteye posted...

for the most part, I think it's good not to play parts for people.

At least for me, I'm in a field where there is a tremendous expectation for professionalism and certain behavior and hierarchy that's expected, so I understand TC's point of view at least.

I do agree though that outside of really obvious settings (work versus close friends) there can be a bit of an overlap in the sense that talking with your friends versus your wife versus your friends wife doesn't have to be a completely different person.
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For fucks sake TC go on Tinder
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alt4445 posted...

So why wouldn't [girl you are interested in] have its own dynamic? Clearly there is going to be a different tone from me talking to a girl I like vs me talking to my female cousin. There is simply a range of tone/mood/dialogue/emotion that the former has that the latter doesn't.

Sure.

You need to have a good dynamic though and one that still is a good representation of who you are.
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Soviet_Poland posted...

snakes_righteye posted...

for the most part, I think it's good not to play parts for people.

At least for me, I'm in a field where there is a tremendous expectation for professionalism and certain behavior and hierarchy that's expected, so I understand TC's point of view at least.

I do agree though that outside of really obvious settings (work versus close friends) there can be a bit of an overlap in the sense that talking with your friends versus your wife versus your friends wife doesn't have to be a completely different person.

I see a lot of people put too much emphasis on trying to be something other people like. They worried about what the other people will think of them. When they say something or do something that didn't quite go as they planned then they feel a great deal of Shame over a simple social interaction.

I don't think that's a healthy way to be. Like I said I don't know I'm not a wise man or an expert in anything. I do think however that you can try too hard to be liked and you end up being unliked.
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How old are you?
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I can fix it for you. First thing you tell a girl is "I love you". That was the first thing I told my current gf when we met 14 years ago.
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snakes_righteye posted...

Just be you to everyone you meet.

I'm not saying you have to be some totally different person. I'm saying that you are different on some level, however subconscious, depending on the dynamic. You're a very slightly different version of "you".

Like, you're not going to share the same personal stuff to your friends as you would your 5 year old niece/nephew. You're not going to behave the same of someone crying in front of you vs someone reading the newspaper. You're not going to hug your brother who came back from the war for the first time the same way you'd hug a drunk friend at the end of the night. Contexts we're in shape little dynamics all the time.

Even you have different understood dynamics within yourself. You aren't going to behave the same at a restaurant as you would a concert. You are going to dress differently for a wedding than you would at your job. etc

I think girls that are single and you are interested in them has a broad dynamic. Like, you're going to be flirty back, perhaps one of you will make physical moves, etc. Somebody has to let somebody know their interested, and the moment that happens, it's no longer like "everyone else", because you aren't interested in everyone in that way.
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The Deadpool posted...

How old are you?

25
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the key is to not have any friends
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TC's story depresses me. He's literally destroying all hopeful and positive thinking I had.

Ouch man.
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cuttin_in_farm posted...

TC's story depresses me. He's literally destroying all hopeful and positive thinking I had.

Ouch man.

I'm sorry you feel this way. I hope you get whatever it is you're striving for.

Also, just know that statistically you have a better shot at this kind of stuff than I do. So that's something. If this was a wake up call, at least you're prepared now than later.
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Blue_Inigo posted...

For fucks sake TC go on Tinder

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Some people have a hard time understanding women, but they're really not that hard to understand.

You have to think like a man. What is a man? Someone who is emotionally strong, confident and dominant. For someone who isn't a natural, you have to practice until you have those qualities.

The interaction dynamics isn't that hard to understand either. Don't worry about push, pull and all that pick up stuff...though touch is super important. The only thing you should focus on is confidence, humor and good conversation skills. Proper grooming helps too. If you don't think you're good looking, forgo online dating and focus on meeting women in real life instead. Online, girls see guys as a picture gallery and they're too logical. In real life, you can tap into their emotions and sometimes attraction is something they can't control.
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alt4445 posted...

The Deadpool posted...

How old are you?

25

lol
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alt4445 posted...

cuttin_in_farm posted...

TC's story depresses me. He's literally destroying all hopeful and positive thinking I had.

Ouch man.

I'm sorry you feel this way. I hope you get whatever it is you're striving for.

Also, just know that statistically you have a better shot at this kind of stuff than I do. So that's something. If this was a wake up call, at least you're prepared now than later.

Nah, just that what you're saying is honestly what I say verbatim sometimes. From the social nuance to just not getting what you do wrong.

I just shrug and keep going. But still. Your words hit a little close to home.
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