Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 139: The Price for Tickets is $400,000

(+) Yeah! (+)

So uh, anybody have a list of who has resigned so far in Trump's cabinet/staff?
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Lopen posted...

Showing compromise is what fosters peace, and it's something neither the extreme left nor extreme right do.

You can't compromise with literal Nazis
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Lopen posted...

I believe 73% is the approximate percentage of white people in the United States as of right now. Whatever the percentage is, just substitute the correct one.

73% is probably high because most census statistics include Hispanics in "White".
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You don't compromise with literal Nazis

You compromise with the normal right
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Don't compromise with Nazis
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Lopen posted...

You don't compromise with literal Nazis

You compromise with the normal right

That's fine

But your WHOLE POST is about the extreme right
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VeryInsane posted...

So uh, anybody have a list of who has resigned so far in Trump's cabinet/staff?

Partial:
https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/913866459071336448

(Twitter should give Steve Dennis 280 characters; this is the one legitimate use for it I can think of!)
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My WHOLE POST is about why the extreme right and extreme left are assholes and you shouldn't be defending either one, and that it's kinda upsetting that you're trying to say "oh well, at least extremists on MY side doesn't hit people with cars"-- they're not on your side. Disown them like you disown the Nazis.
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.... are we supposed to compromise between giving misguided indignant speeches vs running people over
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VeryInsane posted...

So uh, anybody have a list of who has resigned so far in Trump's cabinet/staff?

Flynn
Spicer
Scaramucci
Priebus
Bannon
Gorka
Price

There are others, but these are the noteworthy ones.
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The first 6 years of Obama's presidency was spent trying to compromise with the normal right.

You guys don't want us to compromise.
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VeryInsane posted...

So uh, anybody have a list of who has resigned so far in Trump's cabinet/staff?

Tom Price
Sebastian Gorka
Steve Bannon
Anthony Scaramucci
Reince Priebus
Sean Spicer
Mike Dubke
James Comey
Mike Flynn
Sally Yates

I think that's the big stuff.
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Lopen posted...

My WHOLE POST is about why the extreme right and extreme left are assholes and you shouldn't be defending either one, and that it's kinda upsetting that you're trying to say "oh well, at least extremists on MY side doesn't hit people with cars"-- they're not on your side. Disown them like you disown the Nazis.

LOL maybe there is an alt-center
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I mean, you want me to call those indignant college kids spoiled and snotty, sure.
They're not morally equivalent to Nazis though, I'm sorry.
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Again, Corrik started the comparison.

Like, if Corrik just brought up the stupid video and made it about them and people defended them by bringing up the car Lopen may have something resembling a point. But no, Corrik is the one who initiated the conversation as a comparison and everyone else called it out as the bullshit false equivalence it is.

Basically, why doesn't Lopen ask Corrik why he's choosing to "team up" with the alt-right?
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I'm saying like...

Making it about them not being equivalent over acknowledging that the extremists in that video suck too smells like you're trying to win an argument rather than trying to digest why he thought it might be a relevant thing to post.

Which kinda flips back to what Corrik was getting at I think-- that being the "us vs them" mentality is getting a bit high in this topic. Speaking of that mentality, I'm not part of the right. "You guys" indeed.
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Lopen posted...

Making it about them not being equivalent

Because they're not.

I agree that left extremists suck. I also don't care because, at present, they are little more than an annoyance. Right extremism is currently running the government.
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i'd have been fine with just acknowledging that the extremists in that video suck if corrik didn't add that many people in this topic act the same way, according to him.
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And again, Corrik is the one who shift the topic to the alt-right comparison in the exact same post he initiated the conversation. There's no passing this blame off to the responses when he's the one that framed the discussion on the alt-right.
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Geez that's a lot of turnover

Wonder how many more leave by the end of the year
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I mean in some sense I can see where he's coming from just based on this incident. Like instead of saying "dude we're not at all like that" the focal point was "well who cares, those guys are better than the extremists on your side!"

It seems a lot of people have the objective to assert Corrik is wrong over all else and defend guys on "their team," which is yeah, a hallmark of far left and far right extremists, and something to be careful about.
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So is this kind of what you wanted?

Jakyl25 posted...

I mean, you want me to call those indignant college kids spoiled and snotty, sure.

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do you think if we started calling them trans-right their heads would explode?
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Lopen posted...

I mean in some sense I can see where he's coming from just based on this incident. Like instead of saying "dude we're not at all like that" the focal point was "well who cares, those guys are better than the extremists on your side!"

It seems a lot of people have the objective to assert Corrik is wrong over all else and defend guys on "their team," which is yeah, a hallmark of far left and far right extremists, and something to be careful about.

Believe me when I say that non-Corriks in the topic are far, far more likely to admit faults with their 'side', even if their side is objectively 'better' than the other side

If people are short and dismissive of Corrik it's because he's a charicature that is not worth taking seriously at this point. What's the point of offering reasoned and measured arguments when they are never acknowledged?
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Sorta. The bigger concern to me is like, that wasn't the instinctive response.

Like if someone compares me to the far left, my first objective is to say "no I'm not like that at all you idiot" rather than trying to say "well they're not as bad as the far right so nyah!"

The fact that you're not disowning that as the first response to me says that he's closer to right on the mentality than you'll acknowledge. Like disowning that kinda mentality would probably make interactions with Corrik and sephsg and this place to be a lot more pleasant to read in general.
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i doubt corrik would listen if we would say "dude we're not all like that." we've told him plenty of times before and he just keeps going "LOL YOU GUYS ARE SUCH UNREASONABLE EXTREMIST LEFTISTS," so...

(for the record, my "lol" response was my way of saying "dude we're not all like that." guess i could've made that more clear, though i thought it was obvious that his attack on people in this topic was the most lolworthy part of his post.)
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I give up, you're just going in circles and just picking "sides" yourself in completely bypassing how your criticism starts from Corrik and somehow framing him as making a point when he literally started out with the "sides" shit you're making a fuss about.

As for dumb "you didn't disown him" point... so what? We don't need to disown someone that has nothing to do with us.
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Lopen posted...

It should be a point of unity to say "yeah, corrik, I may not agree with you in general, but at least you're not as obnoxious as those guys in that youtube video you posted" not some argument to be won.

but what if hypothetically he's actually way more obnoxious than them
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So getting this straight

You don't need to assert that you are not like the video corrik posted, because they're clearly not the same
You do need to assert that hitting someone with a car is not like the video corrik posted, because they're clearly not the same

Just confirming I've read the situation correctly
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Kenri posted...

but what if he's actually way more obnoxious than them

FTFY.

(dumb college students trying to find new ways to get out of taking an exam is almost adorable, in a "haha you're gonna fail" sort of way.)
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Can we please stop running 100+ post chains about Corrik/Mersh/Ulti? We've got Breitbart scummery, Trump's ACA suppression, continued efforts with Puerto Rico, Las Vegas fallout, and who knows how many other things...

These topics turning into troll feeds for half their length are tiresome.
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Mega Mana posted...

Can we please stop running 100+ post chains about Corrik/Mersh/Ulti? We've got Breitbart scummery, Trump's ACA suppression, continued efforts with Puerto Rico, Las Vegas fallout, and who knows how many other things...

These topics turning into troll feeds for half their length are tiresome.

I will never understand how people don't learn this
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KamikazePotato posted...

Believe me when I say that non-Corriks in the topic are far, far more likely to admit faults with their 'side', even if their side is objectively 'better' than the other side

this is true. i'm a leftist and when i post something stupid here, i immediately get called out for it by other leftists. one example is when i made a point about the FBI investigating kathy griffin and another is when i attacked trump for using a country's name instead of that country's leader's name on twitter. in both of instances 99% of the people who called me out were leftists.

on the other hand, when MWC or sephyg posts stupid bullshit in this topic they very rarely get called out for it by other right-wing people. this topic is a good example of "the right falls in line."
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Lopen posted...

So getting this straight

You don't need to assert that you are not like the video corrik posted, because they're clearly not the same
You do need to assert that hitting someone with a car is not like the video corrik posted, because they're clearly not the same

Just confirming I've read the situation correctly

Nobody needs to assert anything so this is just a stupid question to pose.

Nobody takes issue with Corrik calling the people stupid, but they do take issue with comparing them to racists. Not complicated.

Again, if ANYBODY defended the people in the video you'd have a point. But they didn't. You don't.
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Lopen posted...

Like disowning that kinda mentality would probably make interactions with Corrik and sephsg and this place to be a lot more pleasant to read in general.

lol @ the idea that conversations in this topic with a guy who recently accused everyone who disagreed with him of having asperger could ever be pleasant.
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My Immortal posted...

Mega Mana posted...

Can we please stop running 100+ post chains about Corrik/Mersh/Ulti? We've got Breitbart scummery, Trump's ACA suppression, continued efforts with Puerto Rico, Las Vegas fallout, and who knows how many other things...

These topics turning into troll feeds for half their length are tiresome.

I will never understand how people don't learn this

The same people get baited every time, and when other people ask them to stop getting baited and leading to a long 'debate' that shits up the topic they go "sorry but I just can't help myself!". It's the biggest reason why I don't follow these topics much anymore.
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CelesMyUserName posted...

Again, if ANYBODY defended the people in the video you'd have a point. But they didn't. You don't.

You don't consider "well at least they don't hit people with cars" a defense? Like the whole focus of the discussion being that they're not the same read to me like this topic was defending the video, personally. An indirect defense to be sure, but without that disclaimer of "yeah those guys are indefensible BUT" beforehand it sorta gives a bad message I think.
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people have a right to be stupid.

people don't have a right to hit people with cars.

is pretty simple.
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like, as far as I can tell, you are upset that people aren't as up in arms over a bunch of dumb kids trying to get out of taking a test as they are with someone running over people with a car for disagreeing with them.

That's a pretty insane position to have.
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I think "they don't hit people with cars" is a pretty important distinction to make when people are using false equivalences to try and compare the extreme left and the extreme right. Putting them on the same level normalizes the extreme right's behavior which is legitimately dangerous. I think it is very important to point out that, no, the extreme right aren't just people with political opinions that most would disagree with. They are literally Nazis. Mentioning them in the same breath as annoying college kids is ridiculous and only serves to deflect attention off of the literal Nazis.
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Lopen posted...

CelesMyUserName posted...

Again, if ANYBODY defended the people in the video you'd have a point. But they didn't. You don't.

You don't consider "well at least they don't hit people with cars" a defense? Like the whole focus of the discussion being that they're not the same read to me like this topic was defending the video, personally. An indirect defense to be sure, but without that disclaimer of "yeah those guys are indefensible BUT" beforehand it sorta gives a bad message I think.

Corrik is the one to initiate the comparison in the opening post.

If someone starts a story about someone peeing at the corner of a parking lot and caps it off with "See, these people are THE EXACT SAME as people jacking off on the bus." then yes pointing out the stupid equivalence is completely fair. Blame the initial post for throwing in a stupid comparison.
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My point isn't that hitting someone with a car isn't worse. Of course it is. You can point out the poorly phrased semantics of his post, but believe it or not that wasn't his point either

My point is that I think it's kinda dumb that such extreme focus was put on that aspect of his point in particular. Do you honestly think that's the point he was making, that they're literally the exact same thing? Like you either took him as saying that because

1. You wanted to target the weakest point of his argument and weren't actually interested in explaining why it was a poor post to make. Saying the guy was wrong by any means necessary was the primary objective.
2. Some part of you thinks that there's nothing wrong with the far left, or doesn't want to admit anything is wrong with them, because they're on "your team."
3. You have internally dehumanized the enemy Corrik to the point that you think he thinks vehicular manslaughter is the exact same thing as being megadouches in a college class is a reasonable interpretation of his post

I don't think any of these are a good look. Yes, it was a poor comparison to make. No, he probably wasn't trying to claim they're literally the exact same.
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Lopen posted...

Do you honestly think that's the point he was making, that they're literally the exact same thing?

no, he probably meant that they're comparable but not the exact same thing.

which is also wrong so...
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What's even the point in posting it without Corrik's dumb "both sides are just as bad" rhetoric? People are rude every day and I don't think anyone's saying there are no rude leftists, but it's not typically newsworthy.
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Or we just don't give shit about dumb kids giving a stupid lecture. Again, there was never any argument there. Nobody needed to "target" that point because everyone agrees on that point.

And really, you don't think anyone cares to downplay nazis and the alt-right? Did you entirely forget your speil about people politically taking sides with bad people when they don't have to?

Yet for all your talk on sides you sure love shoving us into them.
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How are they not at least, somewhat comparable?

They're both instances of political extremism causing people to do things that are not considered acceptable in society
They're both instances of political extremism causing people to treat those who are not in their cult as beneath them

They are comparable in a decent amount of ways. The only way they're not comparable is one of the incidents was not violent.

Personally, I think the violence is not really a direct symptom of the actual politics causing this behavior and is instead caused by other factors like the individuals involved, their current social standing, etc etc, and that given a different societal climate I could easily see the far left resorting to violence as well, as I don't think the violence is inherently tied to the leftness or rightness but rather the extreme nature of everything and current state of society dictating what extremists on either side think they can and can't get away with.

You may disagree with this-- that's fine, that's something worth discussing. But I do think it's foolish to focus in so hard on what is and isn't violent is a kinda strange thing to do when the focal point Corrik had wasn't on violence but attitudes.
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If Corrik had a point he wanted to make he could make it. He didn't.

This is really dragging on to shit now so I'm done.
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He made a point. You just focused on some arbitrary aspect of it that he wasn't making a focus on because he didn't spell it out thoroughly enough, while at the same time acknowledging that probably wasn't the point he was making.

I'd call that on you, not him.
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i'll backpedal a bit - if you define "far right" as "nazis/white nationalists/white supremacists" i would disagree that they're comparable to the far left. if you also define them as something different (like just super right-wing people) you could make a comparison with far left people, sure.
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KamikazePotato posted...

My Immortal posted...

Mega Mana posted...

Can we please stop running 100+ post chains about Corrik/Mersh/Ulti? We've got Breitbart scummery, Trump's ACA suppression, continued efforts with Puerto Rico, Las Vegas fallout, and who knows how many other things...

These topics turning into troll feeds for half their length are tiresome.

I will never understand how people don't learn this

The same people get baited every time, and when other people ask them to stop getting baited and leading to a long 'debate' that shits up the topic they go "sorry but I just can't help myself!". It's the biggest reason why I don't follow these topics much anymore.

Careful, you're coming off a bit sanctimonious here. I think. I don't know.
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