Poll of the Day > George Lucas should have been involved in the newer Star Wars movies.

(+) Yeah! (+)

They might have actually been good. There is zero replay value in "The Force Awakens:Racially Diverse" or "Rogue One:The Feminist Adventure".

When Disney wants something they get what they want. They control a lot of things in the entertainment industry along with all the merchandise they have rights to. They're a massive monopoly. I wish Pixar was not affiliated with Disney like they are nowadays. Competition creates better products.

Original 3 movies = team effort. Lucas was at his prime back then, a totally different person before the millions of dollars changed the man he was.

Prequels = nobody questioning him or giving their input. George Lucas was slightly delusional about how "good" he actually was. George Lucas' storytelling techniques faded over time alongside his problems in his personal life. In the making of the prequels someone could've told him, "practical effects" made the original Star Wars trilogy amazing, MAYBE WE SHOULD TRY TO DO SOME OF THAT. But no, instead the prequels should be "progressive" with the use of CGI techniques that had not been masterfully woven into timeless art. It was still in the infancy of the digital age where computers were not as powerful at rendering 3D images as they are nowadays. The Yoda "puppet-play" in the original trilogy was one of the best things ever done in movie history. Star Wars back then didn't do everything everyone else was doing, they broke the mold.

Here's some of the old school magic that influenced "The New Hope".

The Making of Star Wars - 1977 Documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSuDjjlIPak

There's also zero replay value in The Phantom Menace

Am I alone in not finding Star Wars interesting?
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Why did you post a longer version here?
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I disagree to the max my dude
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It's hilarious that people think a strong female main character means the movie is feminist. It's even more ridiculous when people think a movie having racial diversity is a negative. I'm sure in space there's only one race of beings out there. lol
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SmokeMassTree posted...

Am I alone in not finding Star Wars interesting?

Nope. I've never been a sci-fi guy anyway so Star Wars, Star Trek, etc don't mean much to me. I found the newer movies to be entertaining as Hollywood blockbusters go.
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kind9 posted...

I've never been a sci-fi guy

I hate how Star Wars sneaks into scifi just because it's in space and has lasers.

Duck-I-Says posted...

kind9 posted...

I've never been a sci-fi guy

I hate how Star Wars sneaks into scifi just because it's in space and has lasers.

Maybe poor wording on my part. I like movies that are technically sci-fi, I just don't care much about Star Wars.
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EightySeven posted...

There's also zero replay value in The Phantom Menace

Or Attack of the Clones

Or Revenge of the Sith

AllstarSniper32 posted...

It's hilarious that people think a strong female main character means the movie is feminist. It's even more ridiculous when people think a movie having racial diversity is a negative. I'm sure in space there's only one race of beings out there. lol

Seriously.

Tc is complaining about not have an all white cast. This isn't even similar to complaining about how marvel has changed the race/gender of certain characters.

Force Awakens was a cheap reskin of 4

green dragon posted...

AllstarSniper32 posted...

It's hilarious that people think a strong female main character means the movie is feminist. It's even more ridiculous when people think a movie having racial diversity is a negative. I'm sure in space there's only one race of beings out there. lol

Seriously.

Tc is complaining about not have an all white cast. This isn't even similar to complaining about how marvel has changed the race/gender of certain characters.

This seems to be a really recent critique as well. We have a diverse society so diverse casting decisions are going to be made. People need to get over it.
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green dragon posted...

AllstarSniper32 posted...

It's hilarious that people think a strong female main character means the movie is feminist. It's even more ridiculous when people think a movie having racial diversity is a negative. I'm sure in space there's only one race of beings out there. lol

Seriously.

Tc is complaining about not have an all white cast. This isn't even similar to complaining about how marvel has changed the race/gender of certain characters.

You know what I'm curious about? I wonder if white people would complain if they had made Black Panther be played by some white dude. Let's say...Woody Harrelson XD

I made myself laugh imagining that lol. They would also have to make Black Panther be an alcoholic if he got the role!!!
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Well, he thought he was going to be involved even after he sold the rights... then they didnt use his script.

He then complained adding the franchise is like his kids all the while people were like "so.. you sold your kids?"

.. membeh?
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Why do you feel like the moment they make a black main character it's only for the sake of being 'racially diverse' and even if that was the purpose why would that make you hate it? Like are you saying you just flat out won't like any movie with a black main character? Seems like you read a lot into the motivations of both of those movies too.
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Your choices are either Lucas being involved and it being the same prequel crap or Disney being involved and it being a by the numbers designed by committee retread.
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GhostGiblet posted...

Why do you feel like the moment they make a black main character it's only for the sake of being 'racially diverse' and even if that was the purpose why would that make you hate it? Like are you saying you just flat out won't like any movie with a black main character? Seems like you read a lot into the motivations of both of those movies too.

A lot of people have some deeply rooted ignorant views that maybe they aren't even aware of and they manifest in areas like this. Like they'll be friends with black people and don't think black people are inferior to whites but if a black actor is cast in a movie they need it to "make sense" from a story perspective. Yet that's not a requirement if the character is white. A brand new character can be whatever race the people making the movie want them to be. It doesn't need any more of a "reason" than someone having red hair or blue eyes or a chipped tooth. People accept traits in characters without story related reasons all the time, yet when the character is a woman or black or gay all of a sudden there needs to be a whole spreadsheet of reasons why that character was absolutely necessary in the story. They should stop and ask themselves why they have that reaction.
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Agreed.

green dragon posted...

AllstarSniper32 posted...

It's hilarious that people think a strong female main character means the movie is feminist. It's even more ridiculous when people think a movie having racial diversity is a negative. I'm sure in space there's only one race of beings out there. lol

Seriously.

Tc is complaining about not have an all white cast. This isn't even similar to complaining about how marvel has changed the race/gender of certain characters.

What I don't get is that these same people don't bitch when a character who isn't white is played by someone who is.

It's almost like they don't like nonwhite people being onscreen.
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Just what I wanted, more scenes of people in floating pods arguing about the validity of accusations that somebody invaded a planet.
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The whole point of buying Lucas out for billions of dollars was so he would not be involved anymore. Your theory that Lucas was keeping the blacks and minorities and women out is also stupid. George Lucas is a liberal and made Red Tails with an entirely black cast and crew after he was shoved out of Star Wars.

ChaoticKnuckles posted...

GhostGiblet posted...

Why do you feel like the moment they make a black main character it's only for the sake of being 'racially diverse' and even if that was the purpose why would that make you hate it? Like are you saying you just flat out won't like any movie with a black main character? Seems like you read a lot into the motivations of both of those movies too.

A lot of people have some deeply rooted ignorant views that maybe they aren't even aware of and they manifest in areas like this. Like they'll be friends with black people and don't think black people are inferior to whites but if a black actor is cast in a movie they need it to "make sense" from a story perspective. Yet that's not a requirement if the character is white. A brand new character can be whatever race the people making the movie want them to be. It doesn't need any more of a "reason" than someone having red hair or blue eyes or a chipped tooth. People accept traits in characters without story related reasons all the time, yet when the character is a woman or black or gay all of a sudden there needs to be a whole spreadsheet of reasons why that character was absolutely necessary in the story. They should stop and ask themselves why they have that reaction.

I agree. communitychannel from YouTube (Nat) talked about this too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TakJZtGlLJw
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George Lucas did a great job creating the universe.
But as a director? Let's be honest here, he sucks.
During the filming of the first Star Wars, everyone else on the set thought it would flop.
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InfiniteMick posted...

During the filming of the first Star Wars, everyone else on the set thought it would flop.

probably because there was some weird shit going on (chewbacca, weird as robots, knock-off samurai suit, etc.) and because of the special effects.

the special effects obviously weren't seen when the actors were filming, and I'd argue that the special effects had a lot to do with star wars' success.

EightySeven posted...

There's also zero replay value in The Phantom Menace

There's actually negative replay value in The Phantom Menace. Every time someone watches it, it actually siphons hope and joy out of the universe.

If someone ever sat down and watched it 100 times in a row, it would magically bring Hitler back to life.


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Translation - "Why are there all these women and black people in my sci-fi!?!?!"

InfiniteMick posted...

George Lucas did a great job creating the universe.
But as a director? Let's be honest here, he sucks.

To be fair, a lot of the strength of the original films was rooted in him stealing a lot of ideas from other movies (like The Hidden Fortress and Flash Gordon), then running his rough draft scripts past other, much better directors (like Spielberg, Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola, and Brian De Palma) so they could point out to him which ideas were incredibly stupid.

It's also telling that a lot of ideas that wound up getting removed from the original scripts during that process wound up getting put back into the scripts for the prequels after everyone had helped convince George Lucas that he was actually a genius, and he stopped listening to everyone else's advice.

And then you have things like other people coming in to write better screenplays or being better directors, and actors ad-libbing better lines while filming.

Basically, Lucas has always been vastly overpraised for the success of the original films, and it seems like the more control he had over the franchise at any given point, the worse it was.



InfiniteMick posted...

During the filming of the first Star Wars, everyone else on the set thought it would flop.

So did most of the executives at 20th Century Fox when they saw the preliminary cut of the movie.

And it probably would have, if his wife at the time hadn't gone into the editing room and re-edited it without George getting in the way and continuing to ruin things.

Again, it seems like almost every good thing about Star Wars only happens when people take control away from Lucas.


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Again, it seems like almost every good thing about Star Wars only happens when people take control away from Lucas.

Except for the actual creation of star wars

green dragon posted...

InfiniteMick posted...

During the filming of the first Star Wars, everyone else on the set thought it would flop.

probably because there was some weird shit going on (chewbacca, weird as robots, knock-off samurai suit, etc.) and because of the special effects.

the special effects obviously weren't seen when the actors were filming, and I'd argue that the special effects had a lot to do with star wars' success.

Nearly everyone when they make predictions on whether a movie will be a success only look at it based on what types of movies were successful in the past. And most space type movies in that era were serious science fiction movies that had great special effects, but focused on making the effects based in a place of physical reality. An all-ages big budget space opera hadn't really been tried before Lucas and Fox made the movie. And it probably would have failed if they didn't quietly remove Lucas from day-to-day control and put the movie in the hands of competent editors.

Clearly somebody else needs to be involved in the films, given how TFA turned out.

AC_Dragonfire posted...

They might have actually been good. There is zero replay value in "The Force Awakens:Racially Diverse" or "Rogue One:The Feminist Adventure".

How deliciously alt-right. As for TFA's diversity, it was really just one black man so it wasn't strictly a racially diverse thing. Granted, other than Poe Dameron, the only white males introduced were villains so... there's that.

AllstarSniper32 posted...

It's hilarious that people think a strong female main character means the movie is feminist. It's even more ridiculous when people think a movie having racial diversity is a negative. I'm sure in space there's only one race of beings out there. lol

tbh, I personally care less about the race and genders than the fact that neither of the leads could act or were interesting. Nor were any of the villains. It was the first Star Wars film where I cared about absolutely nobody. Even Phantom Menace had things going for it -- Padme was great, Darth Maul was cool, you had fucking Samuel L Jackson playing a Jedi Master -- but TFA was a massive waste.

Plus a black stormtrooper was out of place given that the Empire was basically positioned as space nazis -- right down to their use of the word stormtrooper (and their attempted genocides in the EU novels; the only POC in the whole damn empire seemed to Thrawn and he was stationed in the Outer Reach) -- and nazis are pretty exclusionary when it comes to race. Then again, I guess they couldn't have a black smuggler because of claims of racism, even if they could have had him be Lando's son or something.

Duck-I-Says posted...

kind9 posted...

I've never been a sci-fi guy

I hate how Star Wars sneaks into scifi just because it's in space and has lasers.

It squarely falls into scifi, even though it has tropes also used in fantasy.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

To be fair, a lot of the strength of the original films was rooted in him stealing a lot of ideas from other movies (like The Hidden Fortress and Flash Gordon), then running his rough draft scripts past other, much better directors (like Spielberg, Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola, and Brian De Palma) so they could point out to him which ideas were incredibly stupid.

It's also telling that a lot of ideas that wound up getting removed from the original scripts during that process wound up getting put back into the scripts for the prequels after everyone had helped convince George Lucas that he was actually a genius, and he stopped listening to everyone else's advice.

And then you have things like other people coming in to write better screenplays or being better directors, and actors ad-libbing better lines while filming.

Basically, Lucas has always been vastly overpraised for the success of the original films, and it seems like the more control he had over the franchise at any given point, the worse it was.

Pretty much all of this. The best film in the OT is the one was ESB where he had the least involvement. However, they need to pick better people to be involved in the films.
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At least one good thing came from the prequels. Without them, we wouldn't have the glory that is Backstroke of the West.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9VVkwRb_7M

green dragon posted...

Except for the actual creation of star wars

ParanoidObsessive posted...

To be fair, a lot of the strength of the original films was rooted in him stealing a lot of ideas from other movies (like The Hidden Fortress and Flash Gordon), then running his rough draft scripts past other, much better directors (like Spielberg, Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola, and Brian De Palma) so they could point out to him which ideas were incredibly stupid.

But, yeah, I mean, sure. I suppose Lucas was the only person on the entire planet who could have watched The Hidden Fortress and then decided to set it in space instead.

Oh, and to make the bumbling comic relief characters into robots instead. Genius!


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

green dragon posted...

Except for the actual creation of star wars

ParanoidObsessive posted...

To be fair, a lot of the strength of the original films was rooted in him stealing a lot of ideas from other movies (like The Hidden Fortress and Flash Gordon), then running his rough draft scripts past other, much better directors (like Spielberg, Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola, and Brian De Palma) so they could point out to him which ideas were incredibly stupid.

But, yeah, I mean, sure. I suppose Lucas was the only person on the entire planet who could have watched The Hidden Fortress and then decided to set it in space instead.

Oh, and to make the bumbling comic relief characters into robots instead. Genius!

He knew how to spot talent, is basically the extent of the genius of George Lucas. His downfall was in seeing himself as that talent. Because he didn't have any talent himself except for in business Which is an underrated reason why the prequels ended up as bad as they did. So much of the merchandise and tie-in deals were made before the script of the movie was even finalized, which is good from a business standpoint. You don't have to sell empty boxes to kids on Christmas with promises to fill them with toys later. But it means you can't really be that creative with the movies. You have to write to the toys.

ew no. the entire reason the new movies are good is cause he didn't touch them. you learned nothing from the prequels. the OT was made by a group of people who all had input. Many of the greatest things about Star Wars were created by other people. Lots of really stupid ideas that got rejected were thought up by Lucas. he wanted Han Solo to be an alien for one thing. After the OT ended, years later he gained total control and took 100% credit. which was a lie. and then he made the prequels under this total control method and didn't listen to any outside input and only used his dumb ideas. and that's why sucked. Literally the entire reason Disney owns Star Wars today is cause of how Lucas fucked up the prequels. he ruined the brand and that's why he sold it. now Disney is fixing it. Lucas sucks. he was the worst part of Star Wars

Zeus posted...

It squarely falls into scifi, even though it has tropes also used in fantasy.

If you take a fantasy story, and then bring it into space, is it a scifi story?

it is space fantasy. even the technology in the movies is fantastical. it's not really sci fi at all

Zeus posted...

tbh, I personally care less about the race and genders than the fact that neither of the leads could act or were interesting. Nor were any of the villains. It was the first Star Wars film where I cared about absolutely nobody. Even Phantom Menace had things going for it -- Padme was great, Darth Maul was cool, you had fucking Samuel L Jackson playing a Jedi Master -- but TFA was a massive waste.

The can't act? I'm sure the people casting took actors that could't act. lol, when people say this about actors, it always makes me laugh. I'm sure you have a better eye for who can or can't act than the person doing the casting.

Just because you didn't like the movie doesn't mean it wasn't a good movie. The numbers of people who actually like the movie most likely far outweigh those that don't.
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AllstarSniper32 posted...

Zeus posted...

tbh, I personally care less about the race and genders than the fact that neither of the leads could act or were interesting. Nor were any of the villains. It was the first Star Wars film where I cared about absolutely nobody. Even Phantom Menace had things going for it -- Padme was great, Darth Maul was cool, you had fucking Samuel L Jackson playing a Jedi Master -- but TFA was a massive waste.

The can't act? I'm sure the people casting took actors that could't act. lol, when people say this about actors, it always makes me laugh. I'm sure you have a better eye for who can or can't act than the person doing the casting.

Just because you didn't like the movie doesn't mean it wasn't a good movie. The numbers of people who actually like the movie most likely far outweigh those that don't.

I'm still stuck on the thought that "Padme was great"... wtf he needs to lay off the death sticks and rethink his life

wah_wah_wah posted...

I'm still stuck on the thought that "Padme was great"... wtf he needs to lay off the death sticks and rethink his life

The only time I really liked Padme was in Episode 2 and only cause she looked super hot in that all white outfit she was wearing!!! Otherwise, I thought she was just OK.
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AllstarSniper32 posted...

wah_wah_wah posted...

I'm still stuck on the thought that "Padme was great"... wtf he needs to lay off the death sticks and rethink his life

The only time I really liked Padme was in Episode 2 and only cause she looked super hot in that all white outfit she was wearing!!! Otherwise, I thought she was just OK.

That sounds like more of an argument that Natalie Portman is great.

FrozenBananas posted...

EightySeven posted...

There's also zero replay value in The Phantom Menace

Or Attack of the Clones

Or Revenge of the Sith

yeah when obi wan mentions the clone wars in the original trilogy I was under the impression taht it was an army of cloned jedi not cloned mandalorian bounty hunters.
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wah_wah_wah posted...

That sounds like more of an argument that Natalie Portman is great.

Well, Natalie Portman is great lol.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

But, yeah, I mean, sure. I suppose Lucas was the only person on the entire planet who could have watched The Hidden Fortress and then decided to set it in space instead.

As for me, i think I'm going to take the Hobbit... and set it in space! Maybe I'll call it Space Shire 7!

shadowsword87 posted...

Zeus posted...

It squarely falls into scifi, even though it has tropes also used in fantasy.

If you take a fantasy story, and then bring it into space, is it a scifi story?

Generally yes. Keep in mind that the two genres share a lot of tropes, partly because they share a lot of history.

Bagamak posted...

it is space fantasy. even the technology in the movies is fantastical. it's not really sci fi at all

lol....?

AllstarSniper32 posted...

Zeus posted...

tbh, I personally care less about the race and genders than the fact that neither of the leads could act or were interesting. Nor were any of the villains. It was the first Star Wars film where I cared about absolutely nobody. Even Phantom Menace had things going for it -- Padme was great, Darth Maul was cool, you had fucking Samuel L Jackson playing a Jedi Master -- but TFA was a massive waste.

The can't act? I'm sure the people casting took actors that could't act. lol, when people say this about actors, it always makes me laugh. I'm sure you have a better eye for who can or can't act than the person doing the casting.

Just because you didn't like the movie doesn't mean it wasn't a good movie. The numbers of people who actually like the movie most likely far outweigh those that don't.

No, the fact that it wasn't a good movie means it wasn't a good movie. The fact that I recognized it as a bad movie resulted from the fact it was a bad movie.
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wah_wah_wah posted...

I'm still stuck on the thought that "Padme was great"... wtf he needs to lay off the death sticks and rethink his life

First off, Natalie Portman is an incredible actress. Second, at least we could *care* about Padme. Rey or whatever left so little of an impression I can't even remember her name half the time and even now I'm not sure that it's that.

AllstarSniper32 posted...

wah_wah_wah posted...

I'm still stuck on the thought that "Padme was great"... wtf he needs to lay off the death sticks and rethink his life

The only time I really liked Padme was in Episode 2 and only cause she looked super hot in that all white outfit she was wearing!!! Otherwise, I thought she was just OK.

Digging yourself deeper.
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Zeus posted...

Generally yes. Keep in mind that the two genres share a lot of tropes, partly because they share a lot of history.

When do you think fantasy started? Because you can easily make the argument it's been around since Beowulf while Scifi only started around Frankenstein.

Fantasy started when humans invented religion

ParanoidObsessive posted...

But, yeah, I mean, sure. I suppose Lucas was the only person on the entire planet who could have watched The Hidden Fortress and then decided to set it in space instead.

Oh, and to make the bumbling comic relief characters into robots instead. Genius!

I mean, it was genius. He was the one who did it. no need for coulda, wouldas

green dragon posted...

ParanoidObsessive posted...

But, yeah, I mean, sure. I suppose Lucas was the only person on the entire planet who could have watched The Hidden Fortress and then decided to set it in space instead.

Oh, and to make the bumbling comic relief characters into robots instead. Genius!

I mean, it was genius. He was the one who did it. no need for coulda, wouldas

The idea itself wasn't genius. The application of it was. It is overrated to be an "idea man" because basically any idea can be made good or bad in the right hands.

Lucas needed to be taken away from Star Wars a long time ago.

Source: When the developers of The Force Awakens said that their main character should have a "Darth" name, Lucas agreed... and told them to name him either "Darth Icky" or "Darth Insanius". This was said completely seriously.
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