Poll of the Day > Do you think the officer in that utah nurse case should be fired?

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/officer-arrested-utah-nurse-viral-050943633.html
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Obviously, but it won't happen as Americans like knowing that at any moment a police officer can bend you over and take you from behind in public.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Obviously, but it won't happen as Americans like knowing that at any moment a police officer can bend you over and take you from behind in public.

yeah many police officer's unions are very strong, the guy in that georgia stop about who said that stupid shit on the dashcam about blacks was fired and i think this case is much worse
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For a second, I thought you were asking should the nurse be fired, and that second post through me in a loop with that.
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FinalXemnas posted...

For a second, I thought you were asking should the nurse be fired, and that second post through me in a loop with that.

same. I voted for the wrong thing because of this
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He should both be fired, and arrested and forced to sit in jail for as long as she was as well.

Total asshat.
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Fired, no. Reprimanded and reeducated on how to act when collecting evidence.

It's scary to think about how many cops get away with what that brave nurse wouldn't let him illegally do. If he doesn't get fired it'll encourage it to happen a lot more
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Action53 posted...

It's scary to think about how many cops get away with what that brave nurse wouldn't let him illegally do. If he doesn't get fired it'll encourage it to happen a lot more

His job is to protect and serve, and instead of protecting her, he assaulted her. It shows his mentality over his job is completely wrong and he should not be allowed to continue to have power over others in any way.

If you don't fire him, put him on a desk job or something, but ensure he has no power over citizens again. Nobody would vote for him to be in that position and honestly that should be a central requirement for any police officer. If a vote was taken, hire police officers that average citizens would vote for. Don't hire asshats that will make everyone's lives worse.

Also need to stop writing tickets for minor infractions (5mph over the speed limit, 1 inch too far from the curse etc). Do not make up the money needed to run the police department by screwing over people, just tax more etc, but the current system gets average people angry at the cops too often (which is counter productive).

Cops should be there to help us, make everyone feel safer, and deal with serious criminals. They should not be out to find any reason to fine/charge average citizens that are just living and maybe not following the letter of the law here or there.

Also think drugs should be legal across the board (obviously not while driving), and same with prostitution.

Fix the system so everyone is working together and trusts each other. Get decent people in the police force and get rid of any assholes (or at least keep em away from citizens).

Do that and crime would probably go WAY down, people would be happier, there would be more taxes to pay for everything (Tax drugs/prostitution) and things like this video would stop happening all together.

But yeah, it won't happen, sadly.
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UT1999 posted...

the guy in that georgia stop about who said that stupid s*** on the dashcam about blacks

Honestly, the context in which he said it seemed like a joke,and it seemed like he was trying to calm down the lady(?)being arrested with inappropriate/dark humour.

I thrive off that kind of humour, so when I see someone getting reprimanded over it, it sucks for me. I don't jive with the idea of one bad joke ruining your whole life. It IS totally unprofessional, however.
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He should be fired, tried for assault, and sent to jail.
The supervisor that told him not to take no for an answer and probably could have fucking googled the laws for taking blood samples should be fired and sent to jail as well.

Instead, the cop will probably get a promotion or at worst just get shifted to another department, and the only restitution the nurse will get isn't justice on those who so flagrantly broke the law, but a cash settlement paid by the taxpayers.

WastelandCowboy posted...

Fired, no. Reprimanded and reeducated on how to act when collecting evidence.

It wasn't his behaviour that has people upset (though that, obviously, was pretty shitty as well); the guy attempted to illegally collect evidence, despite several medical professionals explaining to him - and providing him written proof - that what he was doing was against the law, and when that didn't work he made an illegal arrest on spurious charges.

Again, because I feel this needs to be emphasized, this cop deliberately broke the law and other people suffered for it. He shouldn't just be fired, he should be criminally charged (and the lieutenant who ordered him to do this should face the same charges).
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The people who said no are literal Nazis.
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You're under arrest for not breaking the law!
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He knowingly broke the law and abused his power as a law enforcement agent. Of course he should be fired.

WastelandCowboy posted...

Fired, no. Reprimanded and reeducated on how to act when collecting evidence.

I was going to point out that there was no option for this.

Seeing the entire world solely in black/white, yes/no, and either/or options only is a large part of why everything is so fucked up in the first place. A gradient of options exist, and shades of grey are often far better than immediately knee-jerking to the most extreme side of any argument (in spite of the fact that the Internet and modern politics both encourage that sort of thinking).

And I'm not even saying I'd vote for that option. But as is anyone who thinks there should be lesser penalties would be forced to vote no, which makes it look as if they sanction his behavior even if they don't (and gives ammunition to the usual brand of anti-police fanatics, some of whom have already graced the topic with their presence).



darkknight109 posted...

WastelandCowboy posted...

Fired, no. Reprimanded and reeducated on how to act when collecting evidence.

It wasn't his behaviour that has people upset (though that, obviously, was pretty shitty as well); the guy attempted to illegally collect evidence, despite several medical professionals explaining to him - and providing him written proof - that what he was doing was against the law, and when that didn't work he made an illegal arrest on spurious charges.

To be fair, literally everything you just described WAS his behavior.

The point I assume he was trying to make was that, perhaps, depending on the officer's prior history, it would be entirely possible to emphasize acceptable behavior for the future and reinforce the idea of patient privilege (which it's entirely possible he and other officers in his region haven't been sufficiently educated about - which in itself should spur an investigation of its own), especially if it IS determined that he was being explicitly ordered by a superior to take the actions he was taking (in which case disciplinary action should go higher than simply throwing one scapegoat to the masses and fucking him over when the real fault lies elsewhere).

And before some clever ass in the topic decides to pull the Hitler card and sarcastically point out that "I was only following orders" isn't a valid defense, when placed in a position where you are being asked to accept what your superior is telling you versus what you are being told by a civilian in a situation where you may have no prior reason to believe what they're telling you DOES make that scenario a hell of a lot murkier.

Ultimately no one on the Internet is going to know every detail of the story (and when people posting links to the story are linking to a source like Huffington Post you're already risking potential bias, or at least accusations of same), so it's entirely reasonable to feel like more information is necessary before a conclusion is reached, rather than immediately leaping to "String the fucking pig up, god damn fascists! Grr!"


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

To be fair, literally everything you just described WAS his behavior.

I'd say that his behaviour was the manner in which he conducted himself, rather than the actions he undertook. Even if he was polite and courteous during the whole thing (and he was anything but), I'd still be in favour of charging him; on the other hand, if he was a complete asshole about it but left without arresting anyone, I'd say he deserved nothing worse than a reprimand.

That's the distinction I'm drawing between behaviour and actions.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

The point I assume he was trying to make was that, perhaps, depending on the officer's prior history, it would be entirely possible to emphasize acceptable behavior for the future and reinforce the idea of patient privilege (which it's entirely possible he and other officers in his region haven't been sufficiently educated about - which in itself should spur an investigation of its own), especially if it IS determined that he was being explicitly ordered by a superior to take the actions he was taking (in which case disciplinary action should go higher than simply throwing one scapegoat to the masses and fucking him over when the real fault lies elsewhere).

Well, I did say in my post that the lieutenant that gave the order should face the same charges/discipline that the officer in question does.

Regardless, I think that charges are still warranted regardless - ignorantia juris non excusat applies to everyone, and I would posit it applies even more to those whose entire job is enforcing the law (how, exactly, are you supposed to enforce the law if you don't even know what it is?). This officer, near as my armchair-law degree can tell, broke or attempted to break multiple "unlawful search and seizure" laws and he should be held responsible for that.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

And before some clever ass in the topic decides to pull the Hitler card and sarcastically point out that "I was only following orders" isn't a valid defense, when placed in a position where you are being asked to accept what your superior is telling you versus what you are being told by a civilian in a situation where you may have no prior reason to believe what they're telling you DOES make that scenario a hell of a lot murkier.

Here's the thing, though - he's dealing with multiple medical professionals who are explaining what the law is. And I can say this as a professional myself - every competent professional is very familiar with the laws that govern their profession; the odds that 3-4 of them are all lying to you are almost nil. If I was in this officer's shoes at the very least I would have raised the situation with the lieutenant and requested additional legal clarification as to the validity of his orders (it's not like the victim and his blood were going anywhere at that point).

If the lieutenant sticks to his original orders, the cop has a much stronger legal and moral defence at that point, but as it was he ignored the advice of multiple competent professionals and proceeded with a questionably legal activity. Even then, the "most" correct action would have been refusing an illegal order - after all, if your boss told you to murder someone and that they authorized you to do it, you would still be in a rather significant amount of trouble if you carried that order out.
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Here's the thing, though - he's dealing with multiple medical professionals who are explaining what the law is. And I can say this as a professional myself - every competent professional is very familiar with the laws that govern their profession

This

All my friends are RNs and physicians and the video super-triggered all of them. There is a good working relationship between medical professionals and law enforcement in my community, if a cop tried to pull this where I live the charge nurse would have called the sheriff and his career would have been over within 24 hours... of course it would never happen where I live in the first place.

The dude was apparently ignorant of the constitutional rights of citizens as well as the law in his state. At the very least he needs to be severely reprimanded and put through extensive retraining, but seeing as how senior of a detective he is that may be too lenient in this case.
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Law enforcement shows once again they value our image of them very very lowly.

Yeah he should be fired and not allowed to work in any form of law enforcement or security, at the very least the guy is a gigantic dumbass that should not be trusted to operate a spatula, let alone a gun.
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Cop tries to force a person to commit a crime and when the person refuses the cop arrests them. Being fired should be a given for the cop. The real question is should the cop be brought up on charges. I say yes he should be because if I tried the same thing I would be arrested.
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Watching the video. That cop straight up assaulted her. And no rights were read either. He jumped on her and tackled her, then dragged her. All this is illegal and is assault.
At minimum this is a lawsuit, at maximum it's jail time.
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SinisterSlay posted...

And no rights were read either.

Believe it or not, you don't need to be read your writes at all... unless they want to use something you say as evidence
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Lokarin posted...

SinisterSlay posted...

And no rights were read either.

Believe it or not, you don't need to be read your writes at all... unless they want to use something you say as evidence

What like letters and such?
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Sensual_T_Rex posted...

Lokarin posted...

SinisterSlay posted...

And no rights were read either.

Believe it or not, you don't need to be read your writes at all... unless they want to use something you say as evidence

What like letters and such?

It happens... :L
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