Poll of the Day > So can anyone tell me why Trump pardoning that sheriff was a good thing?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Despite the dude being a massive piece of shit (the sheriff that is)

Because the poor guy got shot. Not his deputy though.

there isn't any good reason why trump did that.
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all presidents make some questionable pardons, usually as they are leaving office though which makes this a oddball case. I remember seeing the pardon list from Bush and there where a few on there that where in for selling weed or some shit
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Tardis2015 posted...

there isn't any good reason why trump did that.

Yeah, it seems like he's just doubling down on appeasing his remaining supporters...
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i feel like one of the majour arguments i hear for people hating on illegal immigration is "they are coming here illegally and the law has to be obeyed"

is that logic just thrown out the window when someone you like breaks the rules?
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ssj4supervegeta posted...

i feel like one of the majour arguments i hear for people hating on illegal immigration is "they are coming here illegally and the law has to be obeyed"

is that logic just thrown out the window when someone you like breaks the rules?

no. and I don't know the story here, but a presidential pardon is legal, thats how our law works, which to be honest I think is stupid that just cause someone is president they can be like "that criminal over there is allright, let him go"
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There is at least one person here who will try his hardest to justify it.

KevinceKostner posted...

Despite the dude being a massive piece of shit (the sheriff that is)

b/c he's the fuck damned president of the united states, boy, and he can do whatever he wants and you're going to like it
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Trump made a big boy decision like a big boy.

We're watching what has been dubbed "political nihilism" by me.
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FourthDimension posted...

There is at least one person here who will try his hardest to justify it.

surprised he isn't here yet
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helIy posted...

FourthDimension posted...

There is at least one person here who will try his hardest to justify it.

surprised he isn't here yet

Zeus blocked me, forever sad

it wasnt.

SkynyrdRocker posted...

Because the poor guy got shot. Not his deputy though.

I appreciate this
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mooreandrew58 posted...

ssj4supervegeta posted...

i feel like one of the majour arguments i hear for people hating on illegal immigration is "they are coming here illegally and the law has to be obeyed"

is that logic just thrown out the window when someone you like breaks the rules?

no. and I don't know the story here, but a presidential pardon is legal, thats how our law works, which to be honest I think is stupid that just cause someone is president they can be like "that criminal over there is allright, let him go"

He's not saying the presidential pardon is illegal; he's pointing out the hypocrisy of anti-immigration conservatives saying "We need to crack down on illegal immigration because they're breaking the law", while simultaneously cheering the pardon of a sheriff who also broke the law.
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Sherriff joe was by all accounts a piece of shit. I can see being tough on crime but he bordered on human rights abuses.

If he is pardoned, iirc that means he admits guilt. hope he gets sued out the ass now for the shit he did.

darkknight109 posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

ssj4supervegeta posted...

i feel like one of the majour arguments i hear for people hating on illegal immigration is "they are coming here illegally and the law has to be obeyed"

is that logic just thrown out the window when someone you like breaks the rules?

no. and I don't know the story here, but a presidential pardon is legal, thats how our law works, which to be honest I think is stupid that just cause someone is president they can be like "that criminal over there is allright, let him go"

He's not saying the presidential pardon is illegal; he's pointing out the hypocrisy of anti-immigration conservatives saying "We need to crack down on illegal immigration because they're breaking the law", while simultaneously cheering the pardon of a sheriff who also broke the law.

both sides of the political spectrum are so full of double standards, you guys seriously shocked by this?

like Hillary with her illegal email BS. some reps. are guilty of that too, but we don't talk about them do we? unless its a dem trying to defend her via "well they do it so whats wrong with her doing it" sorta argument
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mooreandrew58 posted...

darkknight109 posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

ssj4supervegeta posted...

i feel like one of the majour arguments i hear for people hating on illegal immigration is "they are coming here illegally and the law has to be obeyed"

is that logic just thrown out the window when someone you like breaks the rules?

no. and I don't know the story here, but a presidential pardon is legal, thats how our law works, which to be honest I think is stupid that just cause someone is president they can be like "that criminal over there is allright, let him go"

He's not saying the presidential pardon is illegal; he's pointing out the hypocrisy of anti-immigration conservatives saying "We need to crack down on illegal immigration because they're breaking the law", while simultaneously cheering the pardon of a sheriff who also broke the law.

both sides of the political spectrum are so full of double standards, you guys seriously shocked by this?

like Hillary with her illegal email BS. some reps. are guilty of that too, but we don't talk about them do we? unless its a dem trying to defend her via "well they do it so whats wrong with her doing it" sorta argument

I don't know that letting this dude off is a good thing, but I do know that profiling has always been a pretty sticky issue in the courts. What some people call racism, other people call good/obvious police work. Of course, I don't know the details of Arpaio's case so I can't comment on it.

But as has already been said, virtually every president pardons some sketchy dudes to appease their party.

Clinton pardoned a bunch of dudes from the FALN.

Bush Sr. pardoned a bunch of dudes in the Iran-Contra situation.

Carter - Puerto Rican terrorists

Obama - Oscar Lopez Riviera

Etc.

Honestly on the list of people that have been pardoned, an 85 year old dude who will likely never be involved in the industry again is pretty low on the list of sketchy pardons. And it's always to gain political favor.
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KevinceKostner posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

darkknight109 posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

ssj4supervegeta posted...

i feel like one of the majour arguments i hear for people hating on illegal immigration is "they are coming here illegally and the law has to be obeyed"

is that logic just thrown out the window when someone you like breaks the rules?

no. and I don't know the story here, but a presidential pardon is legal, thats how our law works, which to be honest I think is stupid that just cause someone is president they can be like "that criminal over there is allright, let him go"

He's not saying the presidential pardon is illegal; he's pointing out the hypocrisy of anti-immigration conservatives saying "We need to crack down on illegal immigration because they're breaking the law", while simultaneously cheering the pardon of a sheriff who also broke the law.

both sides of the political spectrum are so full of double standards, you guys seriously shocked by this?

like Hillary with her illegal email BS. some reps. are guilty of that too, but we don't talk about them do we? unless its a dem trying to defend her via "well they do it so whats wrong with her doing it" sorta argument

good one. btw if you haven't figured out yet, I support neither side, just want to get that out of the way before someone starts trying to bash me
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There really is no good reason. Except to make Liberals mad, which seems to be a good enough reason to do a lot of bad and crazy shit for a lot of people.
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mooreandrew58 posted...

like Hillary with her illegal email BS

It wasn't illegal bro.

knivesX2004 posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

like Hillary with her illegal email BS

It wasn't illegal bro.

I seem to recall having top secret info being on a private server non government sanctioned being kinda illegal but ok whatever you say don't feel like arguing that point as its a completely different subject. only brought it up to support the fact double standards are something very common on both sides of the political spectrum
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mooreandrew58 posted...

I seem to recall having top secret info being on a private server non government sanctioned being kinda illegal

You recall incorrectly.
But if you want to talk about private email servers so badly we can also talk about Pence using Yahoo if you want.

mooreandrew58 posted...

like Hillary with her illegal email BS. some reps. are guilty of that too, but we don't talk about them do we? unless its a dem trying to defend her via "well they do it so whats wrong with her doing it" sorta argument

Hillary was subject to half a dozen investigations, none of which found any credible grounds for criminal charges.

What she did may have been foolish, but it was not illegal.

Smarkil posted...

I don't know that letting this dude off is a good thing, but I do know that profiling has always been a pretty sticky issue in the courts. What some people call racism, other people call good/obvious police work. Of course, I don't know the details of Arpaio's case so I can't comment on it.

Reader's digest version is this:

Arpaio made it department policy for his sheriffs to pull over and/or stop hispanics in the street and question them about their immigration status, even in cases where they were not suspected of breaking the law. If they were unable to produce immigration documents, they could be detained until able to prove they were in the country legally. He was taken to court over this and the courts came down against him, saying that it was discriminatory to target hispanics and illegal to question or detain them if they were not suspected of any crimes (comes down under unreasonable search and seizure). He was ordered to stop the practice immediately.

He publicly stated multiple times that he would not obey the judge's orders and ordered his deputies to continue the practice. After multiple warnings he was arrested and charged with contempt of court, which he was ultimately found guilty of.

Pretty open and shut case. He wasn't charged (directly) for shoddy police work, he was charged with ignoring a judge's orders - right-wing or left, that's a really bad thing to be encouraging people to do.
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knivesX2004 posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

I seem to recall having top secret info being on a private server non government sanctioned being kinda illegal

You recall incorrectly.
But if you want to talk about private email servers so badly we can also talk about Pence using Yahoo if you want.

did I not say the republicans where also guilty. god do you people just cherry pick what you want to hear/see or what?

and if its not illegal its sure as hell needs to be. info is top secret for a reason.
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mooreandrew58 posted...

god do you people just cherry pick what you want to hear/see or what?

This isn't cherry-picking; you gave a bad example because Hillary WAS investigated and *multiple* investigations, including those headed up by Republicans, found no grounds for charges. That is a world of difference from the Arpaio case, where he was charged and found guilty.
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mooreandrew58 posted...

and if its not illegal its sure as hell needs to be. info is top secret for a reason.

and yet investigation, after investigation, court hearing after court hearing and what was determined?

not illegal!

suck it.
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darkknight109 posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

god do you people just cherry pick what you want to hear/see or what?

This isn't cherry-picking; you gave a bad example because Hillary WAS investigated and *multiple* investigations, including those headed up by Republicans, found no grounds for charges. That is a world of difference from the Arpaio case, where he was charged and found guilty.

you brought up mike pence though, so clearly you where doing "b-bu they are guilty too" when I already stated that. and watch if all these investigations find nothing on trump bet you'll be screaming they got it wrong. maybe not you but many will trust me. I mean it seems clear to me presidents and presidential candidates seem immune to the law. worst case scenario for them seems to be forced to step down from office and thats all they get. which I believe Nixion is the only case of that ever happening. but fine she was found innocent, so lets drop that as I was only trying to show how double standards are present.
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mooreandrew58 posted...

and if its not illegal its sure as hell needs to be. info is top secret for a reason.

Probably.

knivesX2004 posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

and if its not illegal its sure as hell needs to be. info is top secret for a reason.

Probably.

yeah it is. as much as I hate to say it cause I don't like the government but the public doesn't need to know everything. mostly stuff involving our military. info becomes public then our enemies know that info and its no longer the advantage it once was as a secret.

edit: that is ONE thing i will agree with trump on.something he said during one of the election debates its idiotic to make it public knowledge we are about to do X military operation before doing it. cause then they have time prepare. no you just do it then talk about it afterwards
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mooreandrew58 posted...

that is ONE thing i will agree with trump on

Trump doesn't think that. He thinks it's cool to brag about all the secret info he knows. He declassifies shit on Twitter like once a week.

And I was the one who brought up Pence btw.

knivesX2004 posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

that is ONE thing i will agree with trump on

Trump doesn't think that. He thinks it's cool to brag about all the secret info he knows. He declassifies shit on Twitter like once a week.

And I was the one who brought up Pence btw.

let me restate then. one thing he SAID I agree with. i'm not fool enough to believe every word that comes out of any politicians mouth. and lets face it, hes a politician. them and businessmen don't differ that much. not in this country anyways. both are very self serving people that lie to get what they want
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mooreandrew58 posted...

you brought up mike pence though

No, I didn't.

mooreandrew58 posted...

and watch if all these investigations find nothing on trump bet you'll be screaming they got it wrong

No, I won't.
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darkknight109 posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

you brought up mike pence though

No, I didn't.

mooreandrew58 posted...

and watch if all these investigations find nothing on trump bet you'll be screaming they got it wrong

No, I won't.

I apologize on the first part, that is a terrible habit of mine, not reading the name of who responds to me. and in all fairness I did follow up, with a well maybe not you but many will
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there's a post on twitter from a phoenix newspaper detailing everything bad that he's done. there's a lot of it, and it's all pretty bad. He should not have been pardoned.
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Nightmare2398 posted...

there's a post on twitter from a phoenix newspaper detailing everything bad that he's done. there's a lot of it, and it's all pretty bad. He should not have been pardoned.

yeah thats a power I really don't think the president should have. maybe congress as a whole as they'd have to do a vote on it. but no single man or woman should be able to do that
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I mean look up any presidents pardon list they almost always have ones that leave you scratching your head as to why they'd pardon them. Obama has some questionable ones. Bush had some questionable ones. and i'm sure many many more do, those are just the two i've been old enough to give a fuck about politics for.

obama has one for a guy who distributed cocaine. embezzlement (5 counts of it) and much more and I know bush pardon some weed sellers. and thats just a tiny portion of their pardon lists
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damn going over this list. Obama apparently had a soft spot for cocaine dealers
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mooreandrew58 posted...

knivesX2004 posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

and if its not illegal its sure as hell needs to be. info is top secret for a reason.

Probably.

yeah it is. as much as I hate to say it cause I don't like the government but the public doesn't need to know everything. mostly stuff involving our military. info becomes public then our enemies know that info and its no longer the advantage it once was as a secret.

edit: that is ONE thing i will agree with trump on.something he said during one of the election debates its idiotic to make it public knowledge we are about to do X military operation before doing it. cause then they have time prepare. no you just do it then talk about it afterwards

When we do announce operations it is for propaganda purposes in the region - to demoralize enemies or to give non-combatants a chance to evacuate.

I thought this was common knowledge.
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MacrossSpecial posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

knivesX2004 posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

and if its not illegal its sure as hell needs to be. info is top secret for a reason.

Probably.

yeah it is. as much as I hate to say it cause I don't like the government but the public doesn't need to know everything. mostly stuff involving our military. info becomes public then our enemies know that info and its no longer the advantage it once was as a secret.

edit: that is ONE thing i will agree with trump on.something he said during one of the election debates its idiotic to make it public knowledge we are about to do X military operation before doing it. cause then they have time prepare. no you just do it then talk about it afterwards

When we do announce operations it is for propaganda purposes in the region - to demoralize enemies or to give non-combatants a chance to evacuate.

I thought this was common knowledge.

I can see that in some cases but we apparently once announced we where coming to take down on of I think Taliban's leaders and wouldn't you know it when we got there he was long gone. I guess we expected him to face us and die honorably.

edit: I mean did they make it public knowledge we knew the location of Osama? no just woke up and the news said hes dead. and when it comes to high profile targets like that, its how it should be. and in cases where the enemy stands to actually put up a damn good fight, no, don't give them time to prepare, yes it sucks for the civilians (btw I don't fully agree with the war but thats another story) but you do whats going to ensure more of your men come back home alive, and that the operation goes off without a hitch and is executed swiftly and with precision.
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mooreandrew58 posted...

I mean look up any presidents pardon list they almost always have ones that leave you scratching your head as to why they'd pardon them. Obama has some questionable ones. Bush had some questionable ones. and i'm sure many many more do, those are just the two i've been old enough to give a fuck about politics for.

obama has one for a guy who distributed cocaine. embezzlement (5 counts of it) and much more and I know bush pardon some weed sellers. and thats just a tiny portion of their pardon lists

mooreandrew58 posted...

damn going over this list. Obama apparently had a soft spot for cocaine dealers

Obama pardoned a lot of low-level drug users and those who got caught out by some pretty questionable laws (like the "three strikes" law that several states have implemented that can see you put away for life simply for getting busted three times on simple possession). I don't recall any of Obama's pardons that were as nakedly political as this one, though I freely admit my knowledge of who he pardoned is far from exhaustive. Bush Jr. had a few scuzzy ones (his commutation of Scooter Libby's prison sentence stands out in my mind) and I seem to recall Clinton using his last couple months to issue several politically motivated pardons.

mooreandrew58 posted...

yeah thats a power I really don't think the president should have. maybe congress as a whole as they'd have to do a vote on it. but no single man or woman should be able to do that

The issue isn't who's issuing the pardons, the issue is the reason the pardons are issued.

Pardons are supposed to be for exceptional cases and are usually intended for those who have already served out a portion of their sentence and have shown acceptance and remorse for their crimes. Pardons should never be used for nakedly partisan purposes, which is exactly what happened here - unfortunately, whether it's congress, the president, or someone else who has this power, it's effectively impossible to prevent the hijacking of the pardon process for political gain.

If anything, I think I'd probably trust the president MORE with the pardoning power (not this president specifically, but the office in general) because presidents are generally less prone to political grandstanding and stunting than congresspeople. Consider how various congressional factions have effectively held the government hostage over their own personal demands during the last few government shutdowns; you really expect them to behave better when criminals are involved? There is a 100% chance that if this power was delegated to congress, "law-and-order" candidates would start including "No pardons for criminals!" sections in their policies, and they'd probably win votes with them too.
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Remember when Obama released a bunch of crack dealers from prison

I do remember obama pardoning lots of people with drug related offenses.

I also remember when trump pardoned sheriff joe arpaio.

but obamuh

FourthDimension posted...

but obamuh

Lmao so true.
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What's more scummy? Pardoning a sheriff? Or pardoning crack dealers

Some of those dealers served 10+ years of their sentences before they were pardoned.

Arpaio repeatedly violated the constitutional rights of individuals (not just undocumented residents but also legal citizens), violated a federal court order, and was pardoned before he was even sentenced.
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Arpaio was an officer of the law and he abused his powers.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2016/12/26/phoenix-arrest-manuel-melendres-joe-arpaio-profiling-lawsuit/95041534/

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/joe-arpaios-jail-beat-downs-detention-officer-resigns-amid-assault-charges-6645464

https://www.aclu.org/blog/mass-incarceration/marty-atencio-1967-2011-another-victim-sheriff-joe-arpaios-jails

http://www.azfamily.com/story/19662091/rape-victim-opens-up-about-botched-mcso-investigation

http://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2009/05/22/goldwater-institute-arpaio8217s-crime-clearance-rate-a-sham-2/

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/jailers-show-a-paraplegic-whos-boss-6445591

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/08/wait-do-people-actually-know-just-how-evil-this-man-is

Granted a pardon from the "law and order candidate".
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