Current Events > Why are Paper Mario and Ogre Battle the only Rpgs on the N64?

(+) Yeah! (+)

NES and SNES were loaded with them what happened?
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The Playstation

Milkman5 posted...

The Playstation

100% this
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Almost all of the RPGs on the NES and SNES were made by Square

Didn't they literally say, hey the N64 needs more RPG's. Let's make Quest 64.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quest_64
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Milkman5 posted...

Almost all of the RPGs on the NES and SNES were made by Square

This is factually incorrect.
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When you become an adult, you realize what the rest of us have known for quite some time.

The N64 wasn't a good system for RPGs, and is babby's first video game console. Overrated console.

Take away the party games and you're left with nothing. PS1 >>> N64
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@Caution999

shoot your whore mouth :( :(

Square made Secret of Mana, Super Mario RPG, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 1 through 6

Then when the Playstation came out, they developed exclusively for the system.

Chrono Cross, Final Fantasy 7, 8 and 9 and so on

don't forget Quest 64
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JimmyJumper6 posted...

@Caution999

shoot your whore mouth :( :(

You know it to be true ;)


Ask anyone their top five PS1 games, and ask anyone their top five N64 games. The people on the N64 side will list the same games 95% of the time, while the PS1 side you'll get more variety in the answers.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aidyn_Chronicles:_The_First_Mage

There were a few others but most of them were just not very good so PlayStation became the RPG console.
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Gafemage posted...

This is factually incorrect.

All the big ones. When people think of RPGs on the SNES they think of Chrono Trigger, SMRPG, Secret of Mana and the Final Fantasy games

Caution999 posted...

When you become an adult, you realize what the rest of us have known for quite some time.

The N64 wasn't a good system for RPGs, and is babby's first video game console. Overrated console.

Take away the party games and you're left with nothing. PS1 >>> N64

OB64 is the best game of the generation and it's on N64, though
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Milkman5 posted...

Almost all of the RPGs on the NES and SNES were made by Square

Lufia
Breath of Fire
Dragon Quest
Earthbound
Star Ocean
Tales of...
etc...

None are Square
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Caution999 posted...

When you become an adult, you realize what the rest of us have known for quite some time.

The N64 wasn't a good system for RPGs, and is babby's first video game console. Overrated console.

Take away the party games and you're left with nothing. PS1 >>> N64

im sure that a lot of the ps1 success was due to the price & CD format, but yea i think when you take off the nostalgia goggles, the n64 was probably nintendo's worst home console ever.
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Caution999 posted...

JimmyJumper6 posted...

@Caution999

shoot your whore mouth :( :(

You know it to be true ;)


Ask anyone their top five PS1 games, and ask anyone their top five N64 games. The people on the N64 side will list the same games 95% of the time, while the PS1 side you'll get more variety in the answers.

Maybe that's because those 5 games have higher quality and that's why they're loved more?
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Romulox28 posted...

im sure that a lot of the ps1 success was due to the price & CD format, but yea i think when you take off the nostalgia goggles, the n64 was probably nintendo's worst home console ever.

was gamecube really better? I got a lot more use out of my n64 but I feel I might have grown out of gaming or whatever around the same time
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Duncanwii posted...

Caution999 posted...

JimmyJumper6 posted...

@Caution999

shoot your whore mouth :( :(

You know it to be true ;)


Ask anyone their top five PS1 games, and ask anyone their top five N64 games. The people on the N64 side will list the same games 95% of the time, while the PS1 side you'll get more variety in the answers.

Maybe that's because those 5 games have higher quality and that's why they're loved more?

Really? And do you really believe OOT is that much better than each one of these games?

Alundra
Alundra 2
Arc the Lad Collection
Azure Dream
Battle Hunter
Beyond the Beyond
Brave Fencer Musashi
Breath of Fire III
Breath of Fire IV
Brigandine
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Chrono Cross
Chocobo's Dungeon 2
Darkstone
Diablo
Digimon World
Digimon World 2
Digimon World 3
Dragon Seeds
Dragon Valor
Dragon Warrior VII
Eternal Eyes
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy VIII
Final Fantasy IX
Final Fantasy Anthology
Final Fantasy Chronicles
Final Fantasy Origins
Final Fantasy Tactics
Front Mission 3
Grandia
Granstream Saga
Guardian's Crusade
Harvest Moon: Back to Nature
Hoshigami: Ruining Blue Earth
Jade Cocoon
Kartia: Word of Fate
King's Field
King's Field II
Koudelka
Legend of Dragoon
Legend of Legaia
Legend of Mana
Legacy of Kain, Blood Omen
Lunar Silver Star Story Box Set
Lunar II Eternal Blue Box Set
Monster Seed
Ogre Battle
Parasite Eve
Parasite Eve 2
Persona
Persona II: Eternal Punishment
Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure
RPG Maker
Saga Frontier
Saga Frontier 2
Saiyuki: Journey West
Shadow Madness
Shadow Tower
Star Ocean: Second Story
Suikoden
Suikoden II
Tactics Ogre: Let us Cling Together
Tales of Destiny
Tales of Destiny II
Thousand Arms
Threads of Fate
Torneko: The Last Hope
Vagrant Story
Valkyrie Profile
Vandal Hearts
Vandal Hearts II
Vanguard Bandits
Wild Arms
Wild Arms 2
Xenogears


That notion is kinda silly.

And these are just the RPGs. I haven't even mentioned Metal Gear Solid or a number of other games.
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Nintendo has always treated 3rd parties like shit, when they had an opportunity for better working conditions with Sony they all took them and left

I remember reading this one interview with Sakaguchi about Square leaving Nintendo and he said that Yamauchi screamed at him about how Square was pretty much obligated to put FF7 on N64 and he was just like nah and left
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PSX was easier and cheaper to develop to. Nintendo lost a lot of third party support by making their games harder to work with.

Sony would then make the exact same mistake with the PS3... They recovered way better though.
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I find it strange people say the n64 was a bad console when the actual games themselves are some of the most highly regarded of all time.

Ocarina of Time is the most highly rated game ever made. Then you have Majora's Mask and Super Mario 64 that everyone on the internet drools over.

Then you have Smash, Mario Kart, Paper Mario, still worshiped classics and so on.

It's just odd people shit on the console, but n64 games constantly come up in best games of all time discussions

Balrog0 posted...

Romulox28 posted...

im sure that a lot of the ps1 success was due to the price & CD format, but yea i think when you take off the nostalgia goggles, the n64 was probably nintendo's worst home console ever.

was gamecube really better? I got a lot more use out of my n64 but I feel I might have grown out of gaming or whatever around the same time

yea i think it was a lot better imo

you could probably count the real top games for the system on one hand (top of my head: two zeldas, mario 64, two banjos).

then you had some fun party games that were entertaining and were the kinds of games you didnt really see on ps1, but they weren't really classic games like OoT and would be outclassed with sequels (mario kart, smash bros, mario party, etc).

beyond that there isnt much and you're left with a console that was really expensive and had one of the worst controllers in gaming history.

gamecube was better, with a more traditional controller and disc format that helped a lot.

i think nintendo did a better job with their exclusives on gamecube (metroid games, zelda ww and tp, melee, mario sunshine, paper mario ttyd, animal crossing, pikmin, fire emblem, etc) and they even had a few decent third party games like resident evil 4 and mgs twin snakes.

obviously the gamecube started to tank pretty quickly and the third party support dried up, but i think in retrospect the gamecube has aged a lot better and there are more games that have a legacy than with the n64
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Not to mention pretty much all the beloved Rare games were on the n64 and the internet drools over those games to an absurd level

Goldeneye, Banjo Kazooie, DK64, Perfect Dark

Milkman5 posted...

Not to mention pretty much all the beloved Rare games were on the n64 and the internet drools over those games to an absurd level

Goldeneye, Banjo Kazooie, DK64, Perfect Dark

How could you forget Conkers?
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Romulox28 posted...

you could probably count the real top games for the system on one hand (top of my head: two zeldas, mario 64, two banjos).

then you had some fun party games that were entertaining and were the kinds of games you didnt really see on ps1, but they weren't really classic games like OoT and would be outclassed with sequels (mario kart, smash bros, mario party, etc).

beyond that there isnt much and you're left with a console that was really expensive and had one of the worst controllers in gaming history.

gamecube was better, with a more traditional controller and disc format that helped a lot.

i think nintendo did a better job with their exclusives on gamecube (metroid games, zelda ww and tp, melee, mario sunshine, paper mario ttyd, animal crossing, pikmin, fire emblem, etc) and they even had a few decent third party games like resident evil 4 and mgs twin snakes.

I don't think its fair to count mario party, smash bros, and mario kart for gcn and not for n64, though, and many people I know prefer the originals of some of the others (e.g., mario sunshine and TTYD)

you're probably right overall about the library, though. I had a PS2 so I always forget it had more than just exclusives lol
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Dustin1280 posted...

How could you forget Conkers?

Right, Conker. And Banjo Tooie as well

I'm not making a comprehensive list, just pointing out that n64 games are still constantly talked about and praised meanwhile no one talks about any PS1 game except Final Fantasy 7.
It's the strangest thing, like everyone hates the games unless they are comparing the systems directly, then they make these huge lists of mediocre shit games and call them masterpieces, but never mention them outside the n64 vs ps1 scope.

Dustin1280 posted...

Milkman5 posted...

Almost all of the RPGs on the NES and SNES were made by Square

Lufia
Breath of Fire
Dragon Quest
Earthbound
Star Ocean
Tales of...
etc...

None are Square

Lufia 1 was a meh game that had more in common with NES games than SNES. Lufia 2 was fantastic, but by the time it had come out, Chrono Trigger and FF6 were around and were by far better games so it fell under the radar and died.

Breath of Fire 1 and 2 were above average games at best. Breath of Fire 3 which was only on PS1 was easily the best one at the time.

Dragon Quest was good but thanks to Enix's dragging feet with localization, most people lost interest as most games were released towards the end of the systems' lives.

Earthbound honestly isn't a good game.

Star Ocean SNES never localized. A port later showed up on PSP but the SNES version never made it over.

Pre PS1 Tales is garbage.

You are vastly overselling the quality of most SNES RPGs. Many of them were lazy cash ins from the success of Square and Dragon Quest, the latter of which just wasn't very popular outside of Japan.
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Balrog0 posted...

I don't think its fair to count mario party, smash bros, and mario kart for gcn and not for n64, though, and many people I know prefer the originals of some of the others (e.g., mario sunshine and TTYD)

you're probably right overall about the library, though. I had a PS2 so I always forget it had more than just exclusives lol

my thing about most of the nintendo "party" games on n64 is that they were fun at the time, especially since 4 player local multiplayer was pretty much a nintendo exclusive at the time (nobody had the multitap adapter for ps1 lol), but they were all more or less proof of concept games that were immediately replaced later on.

like the original smash bros for example, it was a fun game and a great concept, but ultimately shallow and there wasnt too much content, and then melee comes out that adds a lot to the combat and throws in a ton more content, making the original basically obsolete.

now if you told someone to pick their favorite smash bros game i think you'd have to be intentionally trying to be edgy to say that you prefer Smash Bros 1 over Melee/Brawl/4.
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And another thing. The gamecube vs n64 debate is so strange because when every main series gamecube game came out people were disappointed.

People were disappointed with Sunshine after SM64.
People were disappointed with Wind Waker (they called it a baby game.)
People were disappointed Wave Race for the Gamecube.
People were extremely disappointed with Star Fox Adventure.
People were disappointed that Metroid became an shooter game.
People were disappointed with all the Donkey Kong garbage that came to the system after DK64.
People were disappointed the Gamecube Kirby was cancelled and only got a racing game.
Even when Star Fox Assault came out, people were still disappoint and thought it didn't live up to Star Fox 64.


The only games off the top of my head that was perceived to live up to expectations was Mario Kart Double Dash and Super Smash Bros Melee.


So it's just interesting in hindsight we love the gamecube, but it was so hated on at the time.

That said, I never hated on any of those game when they came out or even now

Console elitism is the most childish, pathetic type of elitism.

Tauros posted...

Console elitism is the most childish, pathetic type of elitism.

I owned both, and I'm just calling it how it is.

And I was pretty much the biggest NES fan of all time, so it wasn't easy for me to admit this at the time.
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You're just a child on the playground bragging about blast processing and other crap. Go to bed.

Milkman5 posted...

out and praised meanwhile no one talks about any PS1 game except Final Fantasy 7.

This just isn't true.

MGS
Xenogears
Persona 2
FFT
FF9
Breath of Fire
Star Ocean
Tales of...
Valkyrie Profile
Tactics Ogre: LUCT
Castlevania
Suikoden
MMX4-6
MM8
Crash Bandicoot
Tekken
Soul Edge/Blade

ChromaticAngel posted...

Pre PS1 Tales is garbage.

Having played both, I actually prefered the feel of the SNES Tales of Phantasia to the PS1 port. Thing is, it's been over a decade and I can't remember why.
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Storage space. You can fit more textures, text, script and coding onto a 700mb disc than you can a 128 mb cart. Which was only ever used for like Donkey Kong 64 and maybe another couple of games - I think cartridges usually spanned from 16mb to 64 mb cartridges.

A Playstation disc - aka your regular garden-variety CD - held 700mb natively, from day one. It was always more suited for longer, more ambitious games, even if it was underpowered.
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imo the Wii U is the worst Nintendo system ever.
And honestly, the Wii was probably worse than the n64 and Gamecube.

It was 480p, the games looked like complete ass comparatively. Does no one remember how ass the wii looked? The PS3 had games like the Last of Us, meanwhile every game on the Wii looked like utter dogshit.

I remember when I got Skyward Sword and how jarring it felt to be playing a 480p game in 2011.
Skyrim came out that month, just to put things into perspective.

I think I didn't care when I first got it in 2006, but there was a turning point, maybe 2009 idk where it just became incredibly apparent that the wii was hot garbage hardware wise

Milkman5 posted...

People were disappointed that Metroid became a shooter game.

people were skeptical before it came out but when it did, everyone went crazy for metroid prime
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Romulox28 posted...

Milkman5 posted...

People were disappointed that Metroid became a shooter game.

people were skeptical before it came out but when it did, everyone went crazy for metroid prime

Yeah, I guess that's true. Also I just remembered how huge Resident Evil 4 was for the gamecube. People were calling it a masterpiece and at the time it was a Gamecube exclusive.

I really do think that ultimately, the N64 was the downfall for Nintendo, and for that reason, it is their worst console. Their entire downfall started with the N64.
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It might go before that the Nintendo CD prototype they decommissioned in the early nineties when they stepped out of a joint deal with Sony. Sony, of course, took that work and released the Playstation shortly thereafter. Oops.
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Milkman5 posted...

I think I didn't care when I first got it in 2006, but there was a turning point, maybe 2009 idk where it just became incredibly apparent that the wii was hot garbage hardware wise

I was a teen who skipped PS3 and Xbox 360 and got a Wii late into the console's life-cycle, and I went straight from PS2 to Wii. Because of that I spent a lot of time defending the Wii, but I totally see what you mean - now I main PS3, well into the PS4/Xbone era.

The wii at least had interesting games. There's a lot of shovelware and shitty PS2 ports with waggle controls implemented, but the exclusives are still pretty rad. Nowadays there are more cinematic sea-life games like Abzu and Subnautica, but Endless Ocean was a one in a million game series that was exclusive to the Wii.

Nintendo fluctuated with their console hardware for a while. the N64 was a bit unwieldy compared to the PS1, despite being capable of more (the cartridge tech being inept compared to CD was only one of its problems), but then the Gamecube turned out legitimately more powerful and tighter than the PS2... which won out anyway, because it had the most games and was advertised as a media machine, being around the same price as a DVD player on launch and coming out before the Gamecube and Xbox. Then Nintendo decided to daisychain 4 Gamecubes together and add motion controls, meaning the Wii wasn't powerful enough compared to PS3/X360 (though it did sell much better than both consoles), and while it was a decent catch-up effort the Wii U was outclassed by the PS4 and Xbox One within months of its launch. Now Nintendo rarely has the most powerful tech, but I'd argue their stuff is still the most fun to play with regardless of power.
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Caution999 posted...

I really do think that ultimately, the N64 was the downfall for Nintendo, and for that reason, it is their worst console. Their entire downfall started with the N64.

what do you mean by downfall?
Didn't the Wii sell like 100+ million consoles and the DS sell 150+

I read that Nintendo made so much money on from Wii and the DS that they have billions of dollars in savings that can keep the company afloat for "38 years" of constant losses.


And now you look at them today and they are in the best position. The Switch is selling like hotcakes and Sony and Microsoft are on a path of disaster.

Aidyn Chronicles has a strange appeal to it. Sure, the characters are ugly as sin, but it has a pretty huge world to explore. Definitely worth giving a chance.
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Caution999 posted...

I really do think that ultimately, the N64 was the downfall for Nintendo, and for that reason, it is their worst console. Their entire downfall started with the N64.

It started with the N64 only because that's when the playstation existed.

previously, your options were nintendo, sega, or god forbid you bought that piece of shit Atari.

And there was this kind of balance where it wasn't clear which one was the better system. Both Nintendo and Sega had strong first party offerings, Mario / Zelda / etc vs Sonic / Phantasy Star / etc.

Then when it came to third party stuff, it was generally understood that Sega had the best Fighting and Sports games, and Nintendo had the best RPGs and Platformers.

When Playstation released, a bunch of those third party titles shifted over to Sony leaving the others with less to work with.

When Nintendo saw the 64 and GameCube got fuckall for third party support, they started making consoles that catered exclusively to themselves, Wii / Wii U, and of course it turned out that was a terrible idea because the Wii generation was the first one in which most games started going multiplatform.

If they had instead just made a "GameCube 2" Nintendo wouldn't have been in the position it is today, although the Switch is doing a really bang up job helping them recover.
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MrMallard posted...

Now Nintendo rarely has the most powerful tech, but I'd argue their stuff is still the most fun to play with regardless of power.

I'll say this. I have a PS4 and a Nintendo Switch and there's no question in my mind, that as a piece of tech, the Switch is far more impressive. The fact that Breath of the Wild looks better than any PS4 game I have ever played on a fucking handheld is insane.

I don't think people realize what a triumph the switch is as a piece of hardware.
To think that Nintendo went from the 3DS to having a portable home console.

I think the 3DS was like 360p
the games look like trash lol

I love the 3DS, but what a jump seriously. And for those criticizing the switches battery life, they must have not had a 3DS. I swear mine only lasts 3 hours.

Milkman5 posted...

I don't think people realize what a triumph the switch is as a piece of hardware.

It's an nVidia Shield.
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*nibbles*
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Balrog0 posted...

Caution999 posted...

When you become an adult, you realize what the rest of us have known for quite some time.

The N64 wasn't a good system for RPGs, and is babby's first video game console. Overrated console.

Take away the party games and you're left with nothing. PS1 >>> N64

OB64 is the best game of the generation and it's on N64, though

My man
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ChromaticAngel posted...

When Nintendo saw the 64 and GameCube got f***all for third party support, they started making consoles that catered exclusively to themselves

I actually think that was good for Nintendo and the reason I doubt Sony and Microsoft will be making consoles much longer. Sony has very few game studios, Microsoft essentially makes nothing. They don't make games. Because they don't make games, they don't have real fans and they don't have brand loyalty or a guaranteed user-base or anything like that. It also means they are completely dependent on third parties to survive, so they have to constantly battle each other for third party exclusives and timed exclusives and bull shit like that, making deals to make their console more appealing and so on. It's fucking stupid to be so dependent on other companies that literally don't give a shit about you, to stay alive.

Nintendo has been constantly building dev teams and acquiring them. At some point they will be pumping out enough games to be completely self sustaining, you guys realize that right?

And with the resurrection of PC gaming through steam, the appeal of third party games is dwindling.

Games like Overwatch, the biggest 3rd party game in years... no one wants to play that on a ps4, switch or Xbox one.

Another big 3rd party game was Fallout 4 and that game ran like ass on the ps4 and xbone.

If your only appeal as a console is third parties, and you don't make games, and everyone gets the same third parties and the games run like ass on your console...

you're fucking doomed, mate.

At least Sony has Naughty Dog