Current Events > I love Justice League but its almost impossible to watch with how nerfed they

(+) Yeah! (+)

make the characters. There has never been a time when Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, or Martian Manhunter wasn't able to solo literally the entire situation they've been in. Then again if the joker is seemingly able to take out the entire league, stopping Flash with... marbles. The same Flash who when occupied by Lex Luthor was unfucking stoppable, even when tied up.

One time Green Lantern uses his ring to shield himself and others from bullets. Other times he completely forgets to do this outright.

It's hard to build suspense when your characters are so broken but it's still possible. It just has to not look like they're being jobber nerfs things.
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I mean the whole point of the show is that Supes needed help and couldn't do it all solo.
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the first half of season 1 is legitimately bad. Every single episode in that half has a scene where the good guys punch the bad guy once, then turn and smile to the camera or someone behind them like the situation has resolved itself, and then they get taken down the baddie from behind. It's infuriating.

Also Supes never uses his damn eye lazers.
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remember when Wonder Woman was going to beat the crap out of normal human robbers because she was having a bad day? Lol
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I still like it a lot despite the problems you've listed. To be fair, those problems are not exclusive to the JL TV show, but they are still one of the biggest offenders.
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I kind of like what the DCAU did to the Joker in regards to keeping him on level with the superpowered League members. In the first Superman/Batman crossover, they make it clear that Joker doing goofy shit that no one expects is what lets him mostly get away with fucking with supers. He's countered directly by Batman who can, in fact, predict him.

So long as it doesn't get overused, I think it's a good way of handling it. And the DCAU does it two or three times total, so that's pretty good.

lilORANG posted...

Also Supes never uses his damn eye lazers.

This never bothered me in the DCAU, but it drives me insane in Supergirl.
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Heat vision was lethal in that show. What Superman did to Doomsday is just proof that he could have easily killed 90 percent of the villains on that show.

Like when he was fighting the stretch guy from the Royal flush gang and got gagged by him.

lilORANG posted...

Also Supes never uses his damn eye lazers.

It's supposed to symbolize the difference between him and Darkseid. Superman takes a more hands-on approach, preferring to tackle the situation using his words, hands, super breath... but Darkseid prefers to just sit and use his omega beams to take out anyone instead of resorting to more roundabout methods.
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Darkseid's best moment isn't even in JL/JLU.

"I am many things, Kal-El....but here, I am God."
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He could have easily lobotomized Ten, Mongul, Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, Drayga and all the other heavyweights on that show.

Maybe except for Captain Atom.

cuteandkawaii posted...

Maybe except for Captain Atom.

Captain Atom is a bomb in a suit, just rip the suit open.
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saspa posted...

It's supposed to symbolize the difference between him and Darkseid.

that doesn't even make sense when Darkseid doesn't show up till the end. There are like a dozen different times when Supes just gives up and stops fighting because he was "overpowered" or tricked or something when he could just blast the problem.
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lilORANG posted...

that doesn't even make sense when Darkseid doesn't show up till the end

Did you not watch Twilight?

I don't mind when they're fighting the supervillains since the villains probably match up in strength, but it DOES bother me when ordinary humans with at most just laser weapons, give them trouble. Especially someone like Jonz with his phase shifting thing.
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saspa posted...

I don't mind when they're fighting the supervillains since the villains probably match up in strength, but it DOES bother me when ordinary humans with at most just laser weapons, give them trouble. Especially someone like Jonz with his phase shifting thing.

I think the World of Cardboard speech was meant to try and alleviate some of that.
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pegusus123456 posted...

Darkseid's best moment isn't even in JL/JLU.

"I am many things, Kal-El....but here, I am God."

Well of course, JLU is not just Superman so the best lines would be reserved for each person's individual show...

I'll never forget what it was like, watching that scene as a kid, and being completely bewildered and confused. That concept of stockholm syndrome/abusive relationship/whatever you want to call it, that was something that I couldn't even understand the complexity of. I really think DCAU is primarily something for adults more so than a strictly kids show.
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pegusus123456 posted...

saspa posted...

I don't mind when they're fighting the supervillains since the villains probably match up in strength, but it DOES bother me when ordinary humans with at most just laser weapons, give them trouble. Especially someone like Jonz with his phase shifting thing.

I think the World of Cardboard speech was meant to try and alleviate some of that.

and then immediately after giving it he gets his shit rocked lol.

saspa posted...

I don't mind when they're fighting the supervillains since the villains probably match up in strength, but it DOES bother me when ordinary humans with at most just laser weapons, give them trouble. Especially someone like Jonz with his phase shifting thing.

Martian Manhunter is a bigger jobber than Yamcha tbh
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You know what was great? The "world of cardboard" speech, even though we had to wait until the finale to hear it.

It gives a near perfect explanation for any grievances might have had about characters seemingly holding back at times.

You know what wasn't great? As soon as Superman says it, he gets taken down by some stupid booby trap Darkseid throws at him or something >__> . Kinda undercut the awesome by a tiny bit.

Nevertheless, I still love it.
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lilORANG posted...

Martian Manhunter is a bigger jobber than Yamcha tbh

I remember he got owned by fucking Livewire despite having a sneak attack advantage.

WTF

Sada_Pop posted...

I mean the whole point of the show is that Supes needed help and couldn't do it all solo.

Disaster control for like an earthquake or tsunami or hurricane? Yes I agree, all members of the team need to step up to either prevent or limit the damage to cities and civilians.

But for 6 mooks? Even alien mooks? Super speed alone plus strength should be like an instant win battering ram all day every day.

With magic it's a bit more ambiguous but still should be handled with ease if properly trained which GL actually makes mention of, properly training and working as a team. But then never mentioned again...
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Comic book characters are only as strong as they need to be for the story. We see Superman tank planet destroying attacks and then in dark knight returns, Batman can hurt him by punching him with cars.
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Actually, I think Superman pretty much beat up every villain in the show that didn't have unique powers or an army.

He beat Solomon Grundy, Aquaman, Darkseid, Grodd, Doomsday, Drayga, Ten, Doomsday

Only times he was beaten outright IIRC was when he got wailed on by Wonder Woman because he figured out he was in an illusion, Hades, Ace and Amazo

That's not going into JLU

TommyG663513 posted...

I still like it a lot despite the problems you've listed. To be fair, those problems are not exclusive to the JL TV show, but they are still one of the biggest offenders.

Yeah it's part of the medium and heck sometimes entire genre of comics, but I think with time things have improved. I recall shows like spectacular spiderman and young justice having fight scenes that are really nice and not just a bunch of contrived defeats. I particularly remember the symbiote fight of spectacular spiderman to be one of the greatest scenes of all time but then again spectacular is the best spiderman to date and greg weisman is an unsung hero whose shows keep getting unjustly canceled.
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saspa posted...

There has never been a time when Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, or Martian Manhunter wasn't able to solo literally the entire situation they've been in

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Then why the fuck do they have a team in the first place?

saspa posted...

You know what was great? The "world of cardboard" speech, even though we had to wait until the finale to hear it.

It gives a near perfect explanation for any grievances might have had about characters seemingly holding back at times.

You know what wasn't great? As soon as Superman says it, he gets taken down by some stupid booby trap Darkseid throws at him or something >__> . Kinda undercut the awesome by a tiny bit.

Nevertheless, I still love it.

yeah i really disliked the agony matrix thing

they needed to have lex luthor save the day and wrote around that. here, we'll introduce a new, never-before seen power at the very end of the series! definition of an ass pull.
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pegusus123456 posted...

I kind of like what the DCAU did to the Joker in regards to keeping him on level with the superpowered League members. In the first Superman/Batman crossover, they make it clear that Joker doing goofy shit that no one expects is what lets him mostly get away with fucking with supers. He's countered directly by Batman who can, in fact, predict him.

So long as it doesn't get overused, I think it's a good way of handling it. And the DCAU does it two or three times total, so that's pretty good.

Yeah I also like the theme that's present in most of these shows that it's not just super powers that makes someone able to do do shit. I actually like when joker uses his unpredictableness to take down the league but then is stopped dead by Batman. And I also like when Batman is alone but seemingly takes care of the entire injustice secret society. When done sparsely these scenes can be really entertaining and funny, but they must take care not to do it often to lessen its appeal.
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I'm trying to rationalize how lex, humanite and the injustice gang had batman captured and restrained yet no one was curious about his secret identity to peak under the mask or outright take it off. I get why joker doesn't care, but not the others, especially Lex.
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It's a fucking cartoon
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I'm also trying to determine whether or not Batman seducing Cheetarah is gross. I forgot she kisses him.
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JustMyOpinion posted...

World of cardboard makes no sense as he routinely gets his butt handed to him throughout the series and destroys half the city in the process. If these people are as weak as he claims why does he allow himself to get pummeled through buildings destroying the city and inadvertently killing people? Those guys are supposedly weak. Those attacks shouldn't force him to get knocked back. And if he's that strong he can fly them to a remote area before they even know what's happening. Or just use his ice breath on him. And half of the guys he's getting his butt handed to are at normal human strength. He has to gauge how powerful they are over and over to know roughly how strong a normal person is?

It isn't about not doing property damage, it's about not punching someone's head off.
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pegusus123456 posted...

saspa posted...

I don't mind when they're fighting the supervillains since the villains probably match up in strength, but it DOES bother me when ordinary humans with at most just laser weapons, give them trouble. Especially someone like Jonz with his phase shifting thing.

I think the World of Cardboard speech was meant to try and alleviate some of that.

One of the best moments in that show.
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You know what I particularly noticed? How they handled Aquaman in this show. Because of Aquaman's apparent reputation as "a joke" in America due to that superfriends show I believe (I personally always loved Aquaman he was my favorite, never understood that one bit) they overcompensated in this show in the opposite extreme of making him as angry, "badass" as possible, with his hand cut off and having a hook for a hand, long hair and grizzly beard, always scowling and fighting with the heroes, really more of an anti-hero (if that) when it comes to the surface world. It felt like they were trying so hard to make him nothing like what his apparent reputation was like.
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saspa posted...

You know what I particularly noticed? How they handled Aquaman in this show. Because of Aquaman's apparent reputation as "a joke" in America due to that superfriends show I believe (I personally always loved Aquaman he was my favorite, never understood that one bit) they overcompensated in this show in the opposite extreme of making him as angry, "badass" as possible, with his hand cut off and having a hook for a hand, long hair and grizzly beard, always scowling and fighting with the heroes, really more of an anti-hero (if that) when it comes to the surface world. It felt like they were trying so hard to make him nothing like what his apparent reputation was like.

And he still got one shotted by Superman. I don't think Superman ever won a fight so easily in the DCAU as he did Aquaman.
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Lol I just watched that episode. Also it is Superman...
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I love watching the art mistakes in season 1 when the show was still finding its legs. DCAU used korean animators right?
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Let me post some examples that will freak you out such as this one:



There are so many examples of times where the character's eyes are all over the place in season 1 and it's disturbing.
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Skye Reynolds posted...

saspa posted...

There has never been a time when Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, or Martian Manhunter wasn't able to solo literally the entire situation they've been in

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Then why the fuck do they have a team in the first place?

In the JLAU it felt more like they needed a place to be accepted. Jhon was the last member of his race. Wonder Woman was banished from her homeland. Shiarra was separated from her home. Green Lantern didn't feel like he could relate to humans anymore either.

I really liked that dynamic in the early episodes and it made Flash being the one person that held them back (brought out their "human" side anyway) make sense. Superman wanting to be around people closer to his weight class wasn't as impactful but worked to. Batman didn't consider himself a member but needed the company just as much.
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saspa posted...

You know what I particularly noticed? How they handled Aquaman in this show. Because of Aquaman's apparent reputation as "a joke" in America due to that superfriends show I believe (I personally always loved Aquaman he was my favorite, never understood that one bit) they overcompensated in this show in the opposite extreme of making him as angry, "badass" as possible, with his hand cut off and having a hook for a hand, long hair and grizzly beard, always scowling and fighting with the heroes, really more of an anti-hero (if that) when it comes to the surface world. It felt like they were trying so hard to make him nothing like what his apparent reputation was like.

He was like that in the comics for a long time too, so it's not like that idea came out of nowhere.

This sort of thing bothered me a lot in the old Teen Titans cartoon, though more specifically because Raven ended up being so vastly more powerful than the other 4 and nearly everything they ever went against that they basically had to write every episode with her and the others just pretending she can't do anything so she wouldn't break the entire story.
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saspa posted...

Let me post some examples that will freak you out such as this one:



There are so many examples of times where the character's eyes are all over the place in season 1 and it's disturbing.

She's just horny. That's why she's cock-eyed.
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Lol Ew Dude ...
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