Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 127: Jay Cullen and Berke Bates

(+) Yeah! (+)

Heather Heyer's mother:

"I'm not talking to the President now," Susan Bro said Friday on ABC's "Good Morning America." "I'm sorry. After what he said about my child, and it's not that I saw somebody else's tweets about him. I saw an actual clip of him at a press conference equating the protesters like Ms. (Heather) Heyer with the KKK and the white supremacists."

Will Trump restrain himself or will he go there?
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Peace___Frog posted...

More violence is largely preferable to letting them go unopposed.

People can oppose them and their hateful ideas without having to physically protest right across from them.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Will Trump restrain himself

lol
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Pokewars posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

More violence is largely preferable to letting them go unopposed.

People can oppose them and their hateful ideas without having to physically protest right across from them.

Not meaningfully
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Jakyl25 posted...

Heather Heyer's mother:

"I'm not talking to the President now," Susan Bro said Friday on ABC's "Good Morning America." "I'm sorry. After what he said about my child, and it's not that I saw somebody else's tweets about him. I saw an actual clip of him at a press conference equating the protesters like Ms. (Heather) Heyer with the KKK and the white supremacists."

Will Trump restrain himself or will he go there?

Oh he'll go there all right
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Jakyl25 posted...

Pokewars posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

More violence is largely preferable to letting them go unopposed.

People can oppose them and their hateful ideas without having to physically protest right across from them.

Not meaningfully

Shouting at each other on the streets until eventually something violent happens is not meaningful. Like Tina said, they'd be chanting hateful slogans to each other. An echo chamber all to themselves while the rest of the world mocks them.
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"Grandpa, what did you do when the Nazis tried to take over?"
"Well, Shannon, I did absolutely nothing but eat cake. I'm sure glad other people did, though!"




Presence matters. Marches and protests matter.
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Peace___Frog posted...

"Grandpa, what did you do when the Nazis tried to take over?"
"Well, Shannon, I did absolutely nothing but eat cake. I'm sure glad other people did, though!"




Presence matters. Marches and protests matter.

Please tell me what protests do? Are these nazis going to see the light and be like "Oh people are actually upset at what we're saying? God, how wrong we were!"
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But they weren't trying to take over. They were just being loud asshole losers.

Like, this is what they wanted. They wanted media coverage. They wanted something big to happen. People are actually talking about them now and raising awareness and now they're getting more people to join them as a result.

All of this helped them, and if you just let them do their little protest and leave, we could all be laughing and posting memes belittling them and their sad attempt to be relevant.
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Pokewars posted...

Peace___Frog posted...

"Grandpa, what did you do when the Nazis tried to take over?"
"Well, Shannon, I did absolutely nothing but eat cake. I'm sure glad other people did, though!"




Presence matters. Marches and protests matter.

Please tell me what protests do? Are these nazis going to see the light and be like "Oh people are actually upset at what we're saying? God, how wrong we were!"

It doesn't matter what the Nazis see, it matters what everyone else sees.

LtMplusCATS posted...

It doesn't matter what the Nazis see, it matters what everyone else sees.

:clapping_emoji:
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LtMplusCATS posted...

It doesn't matter what the Nazis see, it matters what everyone else sees.

A bunch of idiots dressed like they're idiots screaming a bunch of idiotic things?

Everyone else already saw that.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

But they weren't trying to take over. They were just being loud asshole losers.

Bullshit. This is where you are wrong. Dead wrong. They are absolutely trying to take over. This is step one.
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redrocket_pub posted...

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

But they weren't trying to take over. They were just being loud asshole losers.

Bullshit. This is where you are wrong. Dead wrong. They are absolutely trying to take over. This is step one.

Okay, so step one was yelling in front of a statue with all your loser friends.

Was step two getting a bunch of people to fight them in the streets because they don't know how to pick their battles? Because if so, they seem to be playing people pretty well there.

So what is step three? Because if people didn't instigate step two, I guess they'd be stuck at yelling at statues.
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If there was no counter-protesters it would have actually been to the nazis benefit by far.

Because of the violence and noise going on, there was a great magnifying effect on this protest with major news organizations covering it 24/7. This is huge because it's caused a lot more grief for these nazis and white supremacists.

A) Companies are having their websites pulled down and profiles removed from them (something that would have largely not happened if this was a regular boring march with no events).

B) Nazis and white supremacists are being exposed on national TV, leading to them rightfully being terminated from jobs and shown for the racist assholes they are.

C) They're forcing the GOP, a party that largely begrudgingly accepted their votes to win elections (sometimes via racial dog whistles) to now come out and strongly condemn them.

Basically, the counter-protest despite having a person killed was incredibly successful.
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I mean the growth of white nationalism, white supremacy, and nazis online over the past few years have shown what exactly happens when you ignore these "losers" online.
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Exactly. If they're met with no resistance, then they can continue to grow. The more they grow, the bigger the problem.
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Yeah, they've been mostly ignored until recently, and I don't know how anyone could say that they haven't been growing.
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one thing that pisses me off about trump's comments on charlottesville is that "the alt-left came charging at the - as you say - alt-right."

JESUS CHRIST, PEOPLE FROM THE ALT-RIGHT WERE THERE. THIS ISN'T OPEN TO INTERPRETATION.

why is a man who constantly argues like a 3-year-old the president of the united states?

i also like how the alt-right is a well known movement that has existed for ages and "alt-left" is a bullshit term trump pulled out of his ass, yet he only adds a caveat to the term "alt-right." reminds me a lot of "some mexicans - i assume - are good people."
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You cannot, CANNOT, normalize armed weaponized marching terrorism as just a bunch of goofs that we tolerate like they're the Flat Earth Society or something

Their presence by its very nature terrorizes their targets. Read the account of how they menaced the synagogue. If people are bold enough to do that in broad daylight with no masks, and the police do nothing, the good citizens must.
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I think people need to realize how these ideologies spread. It (at this stage) isn't through mass media. Most people who fall into this level of toxic racism are convinced through people they personally know. It's really easy to convince people that white supremacy is the way; and one of the biggest tools of racist groups is being able to spread the idea that 'most people secretly believe in this, but they're being PC.'

Fighting back until they are covered in the news for weeks and forcing right-leaning government officials to make explicit statements against their beliefs makes that statement harder to spread. It brings forward a national discussion where condemnation of white supremacy becomes clear. Many people teetering on the edge will hopefully see the responses that wouldn't be there without the protests. They would likely still hold their racist beliefs, but it's falling into the belief that 'this is what the nation really wants' that escalates many people into joining these groups. Like most people, they believe what they're doing is the right thing.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Was step two getting a bunch of people to fight them in the streets because they don't know how to pick their battles? Because if so, they seem to be playing people pretty well there.

I'll totally agree that Antifa doesn't pick their battles well.

But if THIS is not a battle worth fighting, what is?
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The idea that all that will happen if these people are left tonl their own devices is that they'll dissapear into meme hell is.....dead ass wrong. That's a dangerous mindset. I'm surprised to see it coming from Biscuit.

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Okay, so step one was yelling in front of a statue with all your loser friends.

No, step one was getting everyone who isn't explicitly a nazi already but leans in that direction in one place to convince them to be nazis.

Did you miss the part where the event was literally titled Unite the Right? The statue was just a pretext. The real goal was to get as many alt-righters as possible in the same place and convert them to being full-fledged nazis.
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CasanovaZelos posted...

Fighting back until they are covered in the news for weeks and forcing right-leaning government officials to make explicit statements against their beliefs makes that statement harder to spread. It brings forward a national discussion where condemnation of white supremacy becomes clear. Many people teetering on the edge will hopefully see the responses that wouldn't be there without the protests. They would likely still hold their racist beliefs, but it's falling into the belief that 'this is what the nation really wants' that escalates many people into joining these groups. Like most people, they believe what they're doing is the right thing.

Right. Let's say they march with no resistance and no one got physically hurt.

Yeah, from a very narrow perspective, that's better.

But if you expand the lens, you get people saying "hey these guys aren't so bad! They just care about their heritage!"

And you see the danger that poses, I hope.

Like, you've seen the Cantwell crying video right? HE at least got the message, at least in that moment, that his views are not welcome. And it's exactly how, if they're left unchallenged, the targets of their hatred would feel instead. I know which side I would rather reduce to a blubbering wreck.
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Trump's comments about General Pershing are stupid for a few reasons:

#1. It's not true. For as much as he claims to revere History, he... doesn't really know it that well.

#2. It's assuming that the terrorists are actually devout Muslims, and not just extremists using the religion as a prop

#3. I'm pretty sure incidental contact with pork in Islam does NOT send you to hell. In fact I'm pretty sure they can actually eat pork if the only other option is starving to death.

#4. Even if it WAS a belief in Islam, and they were devout Muslims, they could rationalize it away. "Allah will forgive us if we do it fighting infidels!"
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Jakyl25 posted...

Like, you've seen the Cantwell crying video right? HE at least got the message, at least in that moment, that his views are not welcome.

cantwell didn't get shit - he's a narcissistic asshole. he was only crying because he loves to play the "look how tough i have it as a martyr" role.
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Did I hear right that Cantwell's crying happened between segments he was featured in on VICE's documentary?
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Dancedreamer posted...

Trump's comments about General Pershing are stupid for a few reasons:

#1. It's not true. For as much as he claims to revere History, he... doesn't really know it that well.

#2. It's assuming that the terrorists are actually devout Muslims, and not just extremists using the religion as a prop

#3. I'm pretty sure incidental contact with pork in Islam does NOT send you to hell. In fact I'm pretty sure they can actually eat pork if the only other option is starving to death.

#4. Even if it WAS a belief in Islam, and they were devout Muslims, they could rationalize it away. "Allah will forgive us if we do it fighting infidels!"

#5-infinity: It's a war crime
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/898531481185689600

Radical Islamic Terrorism must be stopped by whatever means necessary! The courts must give us back our protective rights. Have to be tough!

Can anyone translate what he's blathering about now?

Is he mad he can't shoot Muslims with pig blood bullets?

No one has even offered me a theory on this yet

I'm honestly curious!
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https://www.facebook.com/mittromney/posts/10154652303536121

Mitt Romney called out the President, and the comments are scary as hell.

"Um, which "racists" are you talking about? The ones that had a permit to exercise their Fist Amendment right (whether you like the content or not), or the ones that violently attacked them? Please clarify, or else you might look like a complete moron."

Nazis and literal white supremacists aren't racist, guys.

"I am embarrassed beyond belief that I once supported you for President.

Take your leftist crap back to Utah, buttercup. Better yet, take it all the way out of the US."

Saying "hey maybe don't defend Nazis for any reason" is "leftist crap".

"Blacks who were never Slaves fighting Whites who were never Nazis over a Statue erected by Democrats, and it's all Trump's fault?"

Somehow this person thinks it was "blacks" doing the protesting, and that actual Nazis "were never Nazis".
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i think "there weren't actually any nazis/white supremacists/white nationalists there!" is the best response, relatively. it's either a pathetic attempt at a defense or the worst cognitive dissonance imaginable, but it's still better than calling criticism of nazis "leftist crap." at least the former response shows the slightest hint of human decency.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Nazis and literal white supremacists aren't racist, guys.

THEY HAD A PERMIT OKAY? It's okay to be racist if you have a permit!!
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Hey if Kasich doesn't try to primary Trump in 2020, maybe Romney is the guy?

Jeb! would be good too but I really don't think it should be him. I think the other two would have better chances
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

"Blacks who were never Slaves fighting Whites who were never Nazis over a Statue erected by Democrats, and it's all Trump's fault?"

Well this is creative at least. Oof.
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Drudge is reporting that Bannon got the boot.

Still waiting on confirmation from other sources.
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The Mana Sword posted...

Drudge is reporting that Bannon got the boot.

Still waiting on confirmation from other sources.

If this is what you say it is, I love it, especially later in the Summer.
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NYT's got it now too.

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/898585843664691200

Seems legit.
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More time for trying to... you know
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I've always found it funny how Republicans simultaneously call themselves the party of Lincoln and then in the same breath call themselves confederates. It's like they don't get that both parties have evolved.
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https://www.axios.com/white-house-review-nears-end-officials-expect-bannon-firing-2474443198.html

Speculation, but it indicates the possibility. Love this excerpt:

One White House source twists the knife: "His departure may seem turbulent in the media, but inside it will be very smooth. He has no projects or responsibilities to hand off."

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Well, that's good

I hope the news cycle isn't about how this is going to fix Trump's racism problem, though; he failed to condemn the nazis all on his own.
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fwiw there have also been rumors that Gorka's not long for the white house either
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https://twitter.com/classiclib3ral/status/898572097294913536

TOTALLY REAL ASSAULT ALERT, NOT AT ALL STAGED
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/classiclib3ral/status/898572097294913536

TOTALLY REAL ASSAULT ALERT, NOT AT ALL STAGED

wow, that boiling coffee had no effect on him! maybe I should buy his supplements.
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so Bannon is saying he resigned two weeks ago, and Trump is saying that he chose to remove Bannon

hmm
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The Mana Sword posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/classiclib3ral/status/898572097294913536

TOTALLY REAL ASSAULT ALERT, NOT AT ALL STAGED

wow, that boiling coffee had no effect on him! maybe I should buy his supplements.

I do find it hilarious that Jones is just walking along ranting about cucks to start
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/classiclib3ral/status/898572097294913536

TOTALLY REAL ASSAULT ALERT, NOT AT ALL STAGED

That acting is pathetic
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I wonder if the actor in that bit realizes that he might have rabid Alex Jones fans tracking him down?
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Maybe next time instead of coffee, Jones should have the guy pull out a gun and "shoot him" only to see Jones shrug it off and keep coming
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