Current Events > Unite the Right people are getting their pictures shared on social media

(+) Yeah! (+)

Bunch of people doing the hitler salute, popular right-wing youtuber wearing a swastika arm band. People are reporting the images to get them taken down, because they're scared about losing their jobs.

Discuss? I'm simultaneously too drunk, sick and hungover to get into the nitty gritty, but I want to see how CE reacts to the news.
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Good. Ruin them.
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Eh, I don't have any sympathy but this isn't a standard we should set in society.
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Blue_Dream87 posted...

Eh, I don't have any sympathy but this isn't a standard we should set in society.

Publicly shaming neo nazis is a pretty reasonable standard.
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NadYobWoc posted...

Blue_Dream87 posted...

Eh, I don't have any sympathy but this isn't a standard we should set in society.

Publicly shaming neo nazis is a pretty reasonable standard.

Not really.

You are punishing them for thoughts, and thoughts they may have been indoctrinated into or thoughts that stem from a real or sane emotion.

I think the aim should be to correct people with warped or hateful opinions and you simply don't do that by shaming them and making them pariahs, you do that by engaging them.

I think, pragmatically speaking, public shaming is a horrible and ineffective way to improve society.
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NadYobWoc posted...

Blue_Dream87 posted...

Eh, I don't have any sympathy but this isn't a standard we should set in society.

Publicly shaming neo nazis is a pretty reasonable standard.

Agreed. Ruin them. The government may not be able to censor them, but private citizens can certainly make sure there are consequences. If you're out in public spewing hate, the public ought to know. The entire public.

Why hide it?
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NadYobWoc posted...

Good. Ruin them.

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joe40001 posted...

NadYobWoc posted...

Blue_Dream87 posted...

Eh, I don't have any sympathy but this isn't a standard we should set in society.

Publicly shaming neo nazis is a pretty reasonable standard.

Not really.

You are punishing them for thoughts, and thoughts they may have been indoctrinated into or thoughts that stem from a real or sane emotion.

I think the aim should be to correct people with warped or hateful opinions and you simply don't do that by shaming them and making them pariahs, you do that by engaging them.

I think, pragmatically speaking, public shaming is a horrible and ineffective way to improve society.

In this case I don't know why they'd walk around a public rally doing Nazi salutes and holding Nazi flags if they didn't want people to know about them being Nazi's.
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Darmik posted...

joe40001 posted...

NadYobWoc posted...

Blue_Dream87 posted...

Eh, I don't have any sympathy but this isn't a standard we should set in society.

Publicly shaming neo nazis is a pretty reasonable standard.

Not really.

You are punishing them for thoughts, and thoughts they may have been indoctrinated into or thoughts that stem from a real or sane emotion.

I think the aim should be to correct people with warped or hateful opinions and you simply don't do that by shaming them and making them pariahs, you do that by engaging them.

I think, pragmatically speaking, public shaming is a horrible and ineffective way to improve society.

In this case I don't know why they'd walk around a public rally doing Nazi salutes and holding Nazi flags if they didn't want people to know about them being Nazi's.

I guess I'm jumping ahead and saying it's not necessarily bad that what they are doing is now public, just like if that turns into people getting fired or worse than we have a problem.
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joe40001 posted...

Darmik posted...

joe40001 posted...

NadYobWoc posted...

Blue_Dream87 posted...

Eh, I don't have any sympathy but this isn't a standard we should set in society.

Publicly shaming neo nazis is a pretty reasonable standard.

Not really.

You are punishing them for thoughts, and thoughts they may have been indoctrinated into or thoughts that stem from a real or sane emotion.

I think the aim should be to correct people with warped or hateful opinions and you simply don't do that by shaming them and making them pariahs, you do that by engaging them.

I think, pragmatically speaking, public shaming is a horrible and ineffective way to improve society.

In this case I don't know why they'd walk around a public rally doing Nazi salutes and holding Nazi flags if they didn't want people to know about them being Nazi's.

I guess I'm jumping ahead and saying it's not necessarily bad that what they are doing is now public, just like if that turns into people getting fired or worse than we have a problem.

Let's let their employers decide that.
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Darmik posted...

In this case I don't know why they'd walk around a public rally doing Nazi salutes and holding Nazi flags if they didn't want people to know about them being Nazi's.

This.

It's clear they wanted to make a spectacle of themselves, so let them enjoy the "spotlight" they craved so much and everything that goes with it. Mind you, that comes with the stipulation that there's an equal chance of them emboldening others and gaining support from like-minded people as there is that they'll be shamed or punished, but I'm not going to sit here and cherry-pick what kind of attention they're "allowed" to garner.

Just as they were free to protest, everyone else is free to react, however it might be.
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Better than punching them.

As long as they're in public, it's fair game.
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They are completely free to publicly express themselves. They are not free from the consequences of doing so.
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Mal_Fet posted...

Better than punching them.

As long as they're in public, it's fair game.

I dunno if it's better than punching them tbh
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MrMallard posted...

People are reporting the images to get them taken down, because they're scared about losing their jobs..

coward people refused to take responsibilities of their actions.
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LegendaryElite posted...

Mal_Fet posted...

Better than punching them.

As long as they're in public, it's fair game.

I dunno if it's better than punching them tbh

Look here: this is precisely why free speech should be allowed for everyone no matter how radical their views are.

If this weren't allowed, you would never know who had views like these and they would stew in the shadows with like-minded people and potentially do something drastic since the law forced them into their own echochamber.
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The23rdMagus posted...

joe40001 posted...

Darmik posted...

joe40001 posted...

NadYobWoc posted...

Blue_Dream87 posted...

Eh, I don't have any sympathy but this isn't a standard we should set in society.

Publicly shaming neo nazis is a pretty reasonable standard.

Not really.

You are punishing them for thoughts, and thoughts they may have been indoctrinated into or thoughts that stem from a real or sane emotion.

I think the aim should be to correct people with warped or hateful opinions and you simply don't do that by shaming them and making them pariahs, you do that by engaging them.

I think, pragmatically speaking, public shaming is a horrible and ineffective way to improve society.

In this case I don't know why they'd walk around a public rally doing Nazi salutes and holding Nazi flags if they didn't want people to know about them being Nazi's.

I guess I'm jumping ahead and saying it's not necessarily bad that what they are doing is now public, just like if that turns into people getting fired or worse than we have a problem.

Let's let their employers decide that.

Yeah...

It bothers me that there could be a scenario where somebody is unable to find any means of living whatsoever due to their thoughts or words.

I think food and shelter is a human right and so how things could worst case scenario play out is worrysome but I'm not sure if there's a better more fair way.
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The bigger question is why do these people feel the need to have thoughts like this? What have black people ever done that was so wrong to them?
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joe40001 posted...

The23rdMagus posted...

joe40001 posted...

Darmik posted...

joe40001 posted...

NadYobWoc posted...

Blue_Dream87 posted...

Eh, I don't have any sympathy but this isn't a standard we should set in society.

Publicly shaming neo nazis is a pretty reasonable standard.

Not really.

You are punishing them for thoughts, and thoughts they may have been indoctrinated into or thoughts that stem from a real or sane emotion.

I think the aim should be to correct people with warped or hateful opinions and you simply don't do that by shaming them and making them pariahs, you do that by engaging them.

I think, pragmatically speaking, public shaming is a horrible and ineffective way to improve society.

In this case I don't know why they'd walk around a public rally doing Nazi salutes and holding Nazi flags if they didn't want people to know about them being Nazi's.

I guess I'm jumping ahead and saying it's not necessarily bad that what they are doing is now public, just like if that turns into people getting fired or worse than we have a problem.

Let's let their employers decide that.

Yeah...

It bothers me that there could be a scenario where somebody is unable to find any means of living whatsoever due to their thoughts or words.

I think food and shelter is a human right and so how things could worst case scenario play out is worrysome but I'm not sure if there's a better more fair way.

They want attention. Let them have it. Reap what they sow.

I don't necessarily believe in paying evil unto evil, but I can't help but enjoy the concept of someone being hoist by their own petard.
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Mal_Fet posted...

Look here: this is precisely why free speech should be allowed for everyone no matter how radical their views are.

If this weren't allowed, you would never know who had views like these and they would stew in the shadows with like-minded people and potentially do something drastic since the law forced them into their own echochamber.

Glass_Phantom posted...

Monday posted...

They're protesting peacefully for the time being, so there's no issue, yeah?

The issue is that people should feel ashamed to express these beliefs, and they don't.

The conservative right has rallied around the notion that everyone should be free to express whatever they believe in without being shamed for it.

Instead of earning society's censure, folks like you seem to think all ideas should be free to compete in a "marketplace of ideas" -- including the racist ones, the trans and homophobic ones, the misogynist ones. And if someone like me protests it, or labels you a racist for it, then that means I am opposed to freedom of speech, and I should scurry off and find a "safe space" or some such thing.

I say the "marketplace of ideas" is a poor model for society to follow. Contrary to what the right likes to think, the most virtuous ideas will not come out on top; it will only create a safe haven for hatred and prejudice to fester. I think it's incumbent on all of us to shout down that hatred and prejudice wherever we see it, and you would label me a social justice warrior for that.

In short, Monday, the problem is you're fighting for a nasty, dark, and lightless future. These protestors are a symptom of the success you've enjoyed hereto, and I'm against you for it.

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The23rdMagus posted...

I don't necessarily believe in paying evil unto evil, but I can't help but enjoy the concept of someone being hoist by their own petard.

As long as they are not hoisted into homelessness or death.

Even the most bad idea, or speech does not provoke in me a wish for their suffering, particularly when you remember how often people join ideologies for reasons other than their own individual well reasoned conclusions.

If you are insecure and lonely and the only place you find comradely is in a bunch of wannabe neo-nazis it's hard to wish that person death or homelessness even as misguided as they are.

The moment that person does any acts of hate or evil my tone completely changes, but before that point I don't think I can wish undue suffering on them.
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joe40001 posted...

The23rdMagus posted...

I don't necessarily believe in paying evil unto evil, but I can't help but enjoy the concept of someone being hoist by their own petard.

As long as they are not hoisted into homelessness or death.

Even the most bad idea, or speech does not provoke in me a wish for their suffering, particularly when you remember how often people join ideologies for reasons other than their own individual well reasoned conclusions.

If you are insecure and lonely and the only place you find comradely is in a bunch of wannabe neo-nazis it's hard to wish that person death or homelessness even as misguided as they are.

The moment that person does any acts of hate or evil my tone completely changes, but before that point I don't think I can wish undue suffering on them.

Using yourself as a barometer for how other people should act is fucking laughable, joe.
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Kineth posted...

Contrary to what the right likes to think, the most virtuous ideas will not come out on top

Wait, why not?
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the lack of masking up shows either (a) extreme naivety or (b) extreme arrogance in believing that they are untouchable.
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Kineth posted...

I say the "marketplace of ideas" is a poor model for society to follow. Contrary to what the right likes to think, the most virtuous ideas will not come out on top;

Yeah which is why the KKK only has a few strongholds in Bumfuck Nowhere USA when it used to have chapters in every city all over the country.
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joe40001 posted...

and thoughts they may have been indoctrinated into or thoughts that stem from a real or sane emotion.

That excuse is only allowed for liberals and muslims.
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joe40001 posted...

Kineth posted...

Contrary to what the right likes to think, the most virtuous ideas will not come out on top

Wait, why not?

Because virtuous ideas are hard and people tend to take the easy way. It's so much easier to hate and blame everyone else for your problems, and far less so to take responsibility for yourself.
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SGT_Conti posted...

joe40001 posted...

Kineth posted...

Contrary to what the right likes to think, the most virtuous ideas will not come out on top

Wait, why not?

Because virtuous ideas are hard and people tend to take the easy way. It's so much easier to hate and blame everyone else for your problems, and far less so to take responsibility for yourself.

This stance has decisively been disproven by history.

Was the medieval period not a major improvement over the dark ages? Was the Renaissance not a major improvement over the medieval period? Was the Industrial boom not an improvement over that? And so on and so forth? Are we not more enlightened now than we were 100 years ago? 50 years ago? 20?

The only places where society regresses invariably happens in places where only certain viewpoints are tolerated and the rest are harshly penalized. See: Iran after Khomeni, The Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Post-Ottoman Middle East, etc etc etc.
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LegendaryElite posted...

Mal_Fet posted...

Better than punching them.

As long as they're in public, it's fair game.

I dunno if it's better than punching them tbh

Punching them is assault though. It is far better (and more importantly, legal) to publicly shame them so that their peers know who these people really are.
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joe40001 posted...

You are punishing them for thoughts,

No, they are being punished for their actions.

There is a very fine line they have crossed.
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Good. Same shit happens to Antifa all the time. If you're part of a terrorist/hate group and your parading your bullshit out in public, you don't have anything to complain about when someone snaps a picture of your stupid ass.
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Mal_Fet posted...

The only places where society regresses invariably happens in places where only certain viewpoints are tolerated and the rest are harshly penalized. See: Iran after Khomeni, The Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Post-Ottoman Middle East, etc etc etc.

I don't disagree, but it could be argued that it's a sort of chicken and egg thing.

To take Nazi Germany as an example: did certain viewpoints being cracked down on lead to society regressing or were certain viewpoints cracked down on *because* society had regressed (as a result of hateful viewpoints being given room to grow)? I'd argue that it was the latter.

The Nazi viewpoints spread when they were tolerated, *then* came the crackdown on speech. As certain people were seen as sub-human (under Nazism), their views were not seen as equal, and any views going against that were policed.

So although I agree with you for the most part, I can see why people would be wary of allowing these views to be spread, as they fear the marginalization of certain corners of society (and *their* views being cracked down on).

Petty witch hunting
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NadYobWoc posted...

Good. Ruin them.

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MangaFan462 posted...

Petty witch hunting

yep. this is the latest dude targeted on my feed.


sad.
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Back_Stabbath posted...

MangaFan462 posted...

Petty witch hunting

yep. this is the latest dude targeted on my feed.


sad.

Funny how the "nazi" is the rational one in that conversation.
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