Board 8 > Currently reading Game of Thrones (spoilers I guess)

(+) Yeah! (+)

I've watched the entire show, of course, but I decided it was finally time to read the novel. Some of my friends advised against it, some advised in favor of it. The deciding factor was the simple fact that I haven't read a proper fantasy novel in years. I'm already aware of most of the changes between book and show, so I don't expect to be surprised by any plot twists or anything unless they were completely cut from the show. Yes, I know about Lady Stoneheart and Dany's possible uncle in later books.

I just finished the chapter where Catelyn and the wolf kill the assassin after Bran, which I think it about 1/6 in. So far I've noticed that the show was very loyal to this part of the book. I expect this won't last. I also notice that the show made Catelyn less of a *****. "It should have been you" was the harshest line ever. If people are interested, I could post my thoughts as I read.

If I read one page a day, then I should finish book 5 just in time for book 6.
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Season 1 was extremely faithful to the books. 2 started to take more liberties, including inventing plots that didn't exist, but still pretty faithful. Basically, every season generally strayed further from being faithful to the books.
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Game of Thrones is the only book in the series that makes for a good TV adaptation.

The story gets way too spread out and too much time is given to characters no one would give a shit about in the later books. Generally, changes made by the show made it better for TV without drastically changing what was in the books.
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I stopped reading somewhat early into the fourth book. I just remember being really bored by Brienne's and Cersei's chapters (and Jaime's?).
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Anagram posted...

If I read one page a day, then I should finish book 5 just in time for book 6.

That's optimistic tbqh

I got kinda bored by the book. Only really cared about Jon Snow.
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Some of my favorite books of all time, handily, but I can't in good conscience recommend them to people anymore because I don't think there will ever be a seventh unless George's wife goes against his wishes once he's gone.
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Jeff Zero posted...

Some of my favorite books of all time, handily, but I can't in good conscience recommend them to people anymore because I don't think there will ever be a seventh unless George's wife goes against his wishes once he's gone.

eh, I would still recommend them because of the show existing. we probably get a sixth and can use the shows ending to fill in MOST of the blanks. the experience of these books is worth it.

I wouldn't start reading the books until the show ends, honestly. The books will always be there, but the longer you wait now, the less you'll have to wait for TWOW. Which isn't coming out before the ending of the show.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

I wouldn't start reading the books until the show ends, honestly. The books will always be there, but the longer you wait now, the less you'll have to wait for TWOW. Which isn't coming out before the ending of the show.

That's fair, but I've already started, and the worst that happens is that I'm in the same boat as everyone else. I did wait on all of the Harry Potters after the first, after all.

Got up to the point where Bran wakes up.
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lmao at comparing harry potter wait to ASOIAF wait
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A Game of Thrones came out in 1996. Nearly one year before the initial release of the first Harry Potter book. So yeah, lmao.
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They're my favorite books regardless of the fact that TWOW and ADOS will take forever, and ADOS may never even get released.

The ride through all 5 books had me captivated start to finish.

Except for parts of AFFC. Particularly Brienne. I need to reread her stuff.

Watching the show will never surpass the experience I had reading the books. They certainly do the books many justices, but the books themselves contain the meat and bones of my joy for the series.
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Also yeah the wait for TWOW is ridiculous. Does not compare to HP. I read all 5 books in 2014 thinking I was in a good spot for #6.

LOL

And I've only waited for half the time. Crazy.
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Pfft. A few years between books. how long did it take for us to get a Shining sequel? That's right. 36 years.
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Got to the point where Littlefinger helps Ned.

One thing of note: Littlefinger is subtler in the books. In the show he's always obviously up to something, here it's less obvious.
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Show Littlefinger is like...if he read the books and bought into his own hype.

Not really a bad thing, his portrayal in the show is excellent and works a lot better in that medium.
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It's definitely still worth reading the series even if it may never finish. It was a great ride. I agree about Brienne's chapters being boring. Cersei was ok, but Jamie really grew on me.
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It's only like the first 4 or so Brienne chapters that were really boring. After that they're at least okay.
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Of the first book, I find Dany's chapters to be the most boring, but that's because she's completely disconnected from everything else.
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Concerning the wait, actually, it's not that incredible:

A Game of Thrones: August 6th, 1996
A Clash of Kings: November 1998 / March 1999 (2 years)
A Storm of Swords: August 2000 / November 2000 (2 years)
A Feast for Crows: October 17th, 2005 / 8th of November, 2005 (5 years)
A Dance With Dragons: July 17th, 2011 (~6 years)

So while the wait for Winds has definitely been longer than any other, depending on when it will be released it will not have been that much longer than the wait between Feast and Dance (which in a way is more impressive, considering Feast and Dance were supposed to be one book).

Crazy that Storms is the second biggest book but it only took him about 2 years to write it though.

Also Feast > Dance all the way, but getting into the reasons why is somewhat spoilery, so I won't. I'm really fond of Feast though. Once you get to that point though, I would strongly advise to read them at the same time; I feel they flow way better that way.
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I was not a huge fan of Feast and the show making it less dry was something I was really looking forward to. Then S5 happened and I realized I was not careful what I wished for.
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As a show-watcher first, I really enjoyed Brienne's chapters. It's astonishing how much better of a character she is in the books than in the show. She actually makes sense, and I love those chapters' tone.

It helps knowing that AFFC does nothing to advance the plot heading into it, lol.

Book 1's probably the easiest read overall, especially since the show adapts it so closely. I do think Dany's stuff was handled a bit better in the show. The KL chapters are a joy to read, but Dany was more fun for me to watch than to read, IIRC.

Also I've said it before, but watching the show, I thought Jorah was the POV character for Dany's story.
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I remember being so surprised that Robb was never a POV character.
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Anagram posted...

"It should have been you" was the harshest line ever

I already couldn't stand Catelyn from the show.

This line took her firmly into "The worst character in all of fiction" for me.
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I can see thinking Brienne's chapters are boring.

Cersei and Jaime's chapters are all almost exclusively amazing. Especially Cersei.
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Up to Varys telling Ned about Jon Arryn's death and the Hound winning the tournament.

So much set up. At least I know it's paid off.
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There aren't a ton of changes early, but notice that

1. Littlefinger is *not* the one to tell Sansa about the Hound's past in the books - the Hound himself gets to say it.

2. Khal Drogo spends some time seducing Dany instead of just mounting her immediately.

3. Renly cracks the fuck up at Joffrey when he finds out that 'Hearteater' got trashed by a girl and her direwolf pup.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

2. Khal Drogo spends some time seducing Dany instead of just mounting her immediately.

Nothing gets me in the mood like an oily barbarian turning me over in his hands while saying "No."
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yeah, tbh i think that the significance of that is a little overstated. she's still a 13yo who can't really consent. but... i guess it shows that he tried to have some respect for his khaleesi. but in her very next chapter she feels like she's dying from it, so yeah.
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Anagram posted...

SeabassDebeste posted...

2. Khal Drogo spends some time seducing Dany instead of just mounting her immediately.

Nothing gets me in the mood like an oily barbarian turning me over in his hands while saying "No."

If ever a quote should be made into a sig it's this
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SeabassDebeste posted...

3. Renly cracks the fuck up at Joffrey when he finds out that 'Hearteater' got trashed by a girl and her direwolf pup.

Wasn't that Lion's Tooth that Arya tossed?
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It was Lion's Tooth, yes.
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ah yeah, i forget where hearteater's from

but i just remember renly dying when he heard the name, kinda like (7x04) bronn hearing 'dickon'
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I had to look it up, but Hearteater was the replacement for Lion's Tooth that Joff had at the time of the Battle of the Blackwater, and was in turn replaced by Widow's Wail right before he died.
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...

He really was a c***, wasn't he?
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xp1337 posted...

Season 1 was extremely faithful to the books. 2 started to take more liberties, including inventing plots that didn't exist, but still pretty faithful. Basically, every season generally strayed further from being faithful to the books.

Eh, I don't know. Season 1 had some divergences and cuts and 2 is arguably the most divergent of those first 4. The first four seasons are 95% faithful either way.
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I think S1 and S3 are the most faithful. 2 makes cuts to Arya, Tyrion, and Stannis's storylines but tbh I thought many of them were really good changes for a TV show.
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Jaime just had his guards murder Ned's men for no real reason. Funny knowing what happens to his character later.
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Season 2's Arya storyline was better than the book due to Tywin.
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Anagram posted...

Jaime just had his guards murder Ned's men for no real reason. Funny knowing what happens to his character later.

One of the most villainous things Jaime does all series.

He's quite a cardboard villain in AGoT.
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Yeah, I think that strictly speaking, the Arya/Tywin in Harrenhal makes for better TV and better scenes. Two spectacular actors. Will never dispute that. But in terms of narrative consistency, getting to know (book 2 spoilers) Roose Bolton early makes sense, considering how important that character becomes. Alos the foreshadowing with Elmar (?) Frey, to whom Arya was betrothed.

I suspect that turning Jaime human and sympathetic was a decision GRRM made after finishing Book 1. It's universally agreed to be one of the strongest developments/twists of the stories - but also clearly one of the reasons for the bloat of the narrative, and seemingly tangential to the endgame of Dany and the Others.
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In the document outlining the original direction of the series, Jaime was THE villain. There wasn't even a Tywin! (Or at least he wasn't important enough to bring up.)
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Anagram, would you be willing to rank the characters as they are in just the first book once you finish it?
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Yeah, that was an interesting read. I remember on Reddit that there were threads that tried to identify the foreshadowing for events that would not come to pass, as well. Jon's POV inner narrative comments that Jaime looks like he should be king, which some took to be just such foreshadowing.

(Thirteen chapters were included with the outline, IIRC?)

I believe that Dany's dragons also did not appear in the original outline.
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Show Littlefinger is like...if he read the books and bought into his own hype.

this is fantastic
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Peridiam posted...

Anagram, would you be willing to rank the characters as they are in just the first book once you finish it?

Sure.

I'm around page 450~. Jon just asked the maester to take Sam.
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My wife and I have only watched the first 5 seasons and she dislikes show LF a lot, whereas she has no problem with book LF.
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it should be noted that book LF isn't exactly perfect either - he loves talking about how he fucked both tully sisters, for one thing
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SeabassDebeste posted...

Jon's POV inner narrative comments that Jaime looks like he should be king, which some took to be just such foreshadowing.

That's the obvious one, I suppose.
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