Current Events > Funny how supporters of the electoral college don't even know the reason

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ChainedRedone
08/04/17 6:44:08 PM
#1:


for its existence.

Hint: No, it wasn't so smaller states would have a chance against bigger states

It's pretty astounding that 'patriotic' Americans defend an undemocratic system so hard without even knowing what its intended purpose is.
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thecoolgu
08/04/17 6:45:34 PM
#2:


It's all trolling and fluff until you tell us what it's for, Buster.
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ChainedRedone
08/04/17 6:47:21 PM
#3:


thecoolgu posted...
It's all trolling and fluff until you tell us what it's for, Buster.


Electorates were supposed to be intelligent and knowledgable and vote against a tyranical or scandalous candidate. In other words, they were safeguards in case the electorates felt that 'the people picked the wrong guy'.

It had literally nothing to do with giving smaller states power and it's incredible so many ignorant Americans truly believe that.
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thecoolgu
08/04/17 6:50:15 PM
#4:


ChainedRedone posted...
Electorates were supposed to be intelligent and knowledgable and vote against a tyranical or scandalous candidate. In other words, they were safeguards in case the electorates felt that 'the people picked the wrong guy'.

I mean, Trump is still the President. The system must be broken at the moment.
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iPhone_7
08/04/17 6:50:26 PM
#5:


It was to prevent a demagogue from being elected if they won the popular vote, except it's exactly what helped Trump get elected. They didn't foresee that officials would lack a spine and vote along party lines anyways.

And this is twice now within 16 years that the electoral college has screwed over the Democrats. Al Gore and Hillary Clinton.
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ChainedRedone
08/04/17 6:52:17 PM
#6:


thecoolgu posted...
ChainedRedone posted...
Electorates were supposed to be intelligent and knowledgable and vote against a tyranical or scandalous candidate. In other words, they were safeguards in case the electorates felt that 'the people picked the wrong guy'.

I mean, Trump is still the President. The system must be broken at the moment.


Something rabid Republicans and intellectual lightweights on the internet can seem to grasp: the electoral college is bullshit.
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Tmaster148
08/04/17 6:52:36 PM
#7:


iPhone_7 posted...
It was to prevent a demagogue from being elected if they won the popular vote, except it's exactly what helped Trump get elected. They didn't foresee that officials would lack a spine and vote along party lines anyways.


Idk if I would call it party lines as the electorate isn't really affiliated with any one party. Just most of them voted towards whatever the state results were. Although I believe some states have rules in place to keep the electorates from voting differently anyways.
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SSMajinVegeta2
08/04/17 6:54:51 PM
#8:


So the electoral college gets to have their opinion outweigh America's?
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darkphoenix181
08/04/17 6:55:38 PM
#9:


http://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-reason-for-the-electoral-college/

The reason that the Constitution calls for this extra layer, rather than just providing for the direct election of the president, is that most of the nation’s founders were actually rather afraid of democracy. James Madison worried about what he called “factions,” which he defined as groups of citizens who have a common interest in some proposal that would either violate the rights of other citizens or would harm the nation as a whole. Madison’s fear – which Alexis de Tocqueville later dubbed “the tyranny of the majority” – was that a faction could grow to encompass more than 50 percent of the population, at which point it could “sacrifice to its ruling passion or interest both the public good and the rights of other citizens.” Madison has a solution for tyranny of the majority: “A republic, by which I mean a government in which the scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect, and promises the cure for which we are seeking.”

As Alexander Hamilton writes in “The Federalist Papers,” the Constitution is designed to ensure “that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.”




1. a stupid president (lol)
2. a cohesive group being able to bully the minority just like these people say about california vs. their little states

“the tyranny of the majority” – was that a faction could grow to encompass more than 50 percent of the population, at which point it could “sacrifice to its ruling passion or interest both the public good and the rights of other citizens.”


this is literally the scenario where the democrats can say "we got New York and California and Chicago, so we don't have to listen to people in rural states."

The faction here would be urbanites who don't know about or care about rural life and thus have no incentive to listen to their concerns
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iPhone_7
08/04/17 6:56:05 PM
#10:


Tmaster148 posted...
Idk if I would call it party lines as the electorate isn't really affiliated with any one party. Just most of them voted towards whatever the state results were. Although I believe some states have rules in place to keep the electorates from voting differently anyways.


Actually you're correct. They go in whatever way their state votes. Although I'm unsure how exactly how or why they're picked, like if they're unaffiliated with any party.
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iPhone_7
08/04/17 6:59:50 PM
#11:


this is literally the scenario where the democrats can say "we got New York and California and Chicago, so we don't have to listen to people in rural states."

The faction here would be urbanites who don't know about or care about rural life and thus have no incentive to listen to their concerns
sigless user is me or am I?

So ruralites who don't know about or care about urban life get to have their vote matter more because of where they live.
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Tmaster148
08/04/17 7:00:56 PM
#12:


iPhone_7 posted...
Tmaster148 posted...
Idk if I would call it party lines as the electorate isn't really affiliated with any one party. Just most of them voted towards whatever the state results were. Although I believe some states have rules in place to keep the electorates from voting differently anyways.


Actually you're correct. They go in whatever way their state votes. Although I'm unsure how exactly how or why they're picked, like if they're unaffiliated with any party.


Electors are picked by the ballot we vote for it's just that instead of voting for the elector we vote for an elector who pledge to vote for x candidate.

It's a really weird system.
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ChainedRedone
08/04/17 7:01:30 PM
#13:


darkphoenix181 posted...
this is literally the scenario where the democrats can say "we got New York and California and Chicago, so we don't have to listen to people in rural states."


No it's not because the electoral college aims to prevent the situation through electorates voting for the candidate that is not a tyranical demagogue. Not by giving massively disproportionate power to the smaller states. More evidence that you people still can't understand the concept if your life depended on it.
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ChainedRedone
08/04/17 7:03:20 PM
#14:


iPhone_7 posted...
Tmaster148 posted...
Idk if I would call it party lines as the electorate isn't really affiliated with any one party. Just most of them voted towards whatever the state results were. Although I believe some states have rules in place to keep the electorates from voting differently anyways.


Actually you're correct. They go in whatever way their state votes. Although I'm unsure how exactly how or why they're picked, like if they're unaffiliated with any party.


They do belong to a party. The people choose the electorates. So say democrates win in CA, the Californian electorates that were picked by the democratic party vote for the president. If the Republicans win, it is a different set of electorates, ones chosen by Republicans. For this reason electorates very rarely vote outside their party lines.The people choose the electorates, the electorates then choose the president.
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darkphoenix181
08/04/17 7:05:55 PM
#15:


iPhone_7 posted...
this is literally the scenario where the democrats can say "we got New York and California and Chicago, so we don't have to listen to people in rural states."

The faction here would be urbanites who don't know about or care about rural life and thus have no incentive to listen to their concerns
sigless user is me or am I?

So ruralites who don't know about or care about urban life get to have their vote matter more because of where they live.



you are looking at it wrong


look at it through Madison's perspective:
James Madison worried about what he called “factions,” which he defined as groups of citizens who have a common interest in some proposal that would either violate the rights of other citizens or would harm the nation as a whole.


He wasn't worried that one person's vote would count more than another person's, he was worried than one group's votes would count more than another groups.

So since there is less people in the rural areas, to bring that group to parity with people living in cities, yes you would have to make each rural person's individual vote count more.
But as a group, as a whole, their vote is not more important than those in a city.
To win the election you need to appeal to both.
His fear was that to win the election you need to appeal to only one and forget the other.


More specifically, they didn't want one state bullying all the rest. Which is what happens when one state has massively more population and each vote counts the same.
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ChainedRedone
08/04/17 7:07:44 PM
#16:


darkphoenix181 posted...
He wasn't worried that one person's vote would count more than another person's, he was worried than one group's votes would count more than another groups.

So since there is less people in the rural areas, to bring that group to parity with people living in cities, yes you would have to make each rural person's individual vote count more.
But as a group, as a whole, their vote is not more important than those in a city.
To win the election you need to appeal to both.
His fear was that to win the election you need to appeal to only one and forget the other.


You are literally wrong the electoral college was not meant to give disproportionate power to rural states. You are doing what every electoral college supporter does which is falsely romantacize the concept and mechanism of the electoral college.
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darkphoenix181
08/04/17 7:10:43 PM
#17:


ChainedRedone posted...
darkphoenix181 posted...
He wasn't worried that one person's vote would count more than another person's, he was worried than one group's votes would count more than another groups.

So since there is less people in the rural areas, to bring that group to parity with people living in cities, yes you would have to make each rural person's individual vote count more.
But as a group, as a whole, their vote is not more important than those in a city.
To win the election you need to appeal to both.
His fear was that to win the election you need to appeal to only one and forget the other.


You are literally wrong the electoral college was not meant to give disproportionate power to rural states. You are doing what every electoral college supporter does which is falsely romantacize the concept and mechanism of the electoral college.


I cited an article which literally quoted James Madson

do you for some reason not like factcheck.org?
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darkphoenix181
08/04/17 7:12:58 PM
#18:


darkphoenix181 posted...
More specifically, they didn't want one state bullying all the rest. Which is what happens when one state has massively more population and each vote counts the same.


to illustrate

a state could elect their governor to be president to have him make deals to bring more wealth to their state and do all sorts of things that ONLY benefits their state

that is, a state could do this IF we had votes only work via population

that is, if one state has enough of population disparity, it automatically wins if the people in that state like the candidate


with less populous places having their people have a higher say, it balances it out such that they could actually fight this and say "you can't just do things that benefits your one state only! you need to benefit the whole country!"
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iPhone_7
08/04/17 7:15:36 PM
#19:


I'd rather one's vote not matter depending on what state their registered home is. One person, one vote.
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Banana_Cyanide
08/04/17 7:15:47 PM
#20:


ChainedRedone posted...
Electorates were supposed to be intelligent and knowledgable and vote against a tyranical or scandalous candidate. In other words, they were safeguards in case the electorates felt that 'the people picked the wrong guy'.

It had literally nothing to do with giving smaller states power and it's incredible so many ignorant Americans truly believe that.

Holy shitting fuck you could not be any more wrong if you tried.

This is some serious standard setting shit right here.
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ChainedRedone
08/04/17 7:23:06 PM
#21:


Banana_Cyanide posted...
Holy shitting fuck you could not be any more wrong if you tried.

This is some serious standard setting shit right here.


That is the well-known reason for the electoral college. Would you like me to Google an article for you?
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UnholyMudcrab
08/04/17 7:23:50 PM
#22:


Banana_Cyanide posted...
ChainedRedone posted...
Electorates were supposed to be intelligent and knowledgable and vote against a tyranical or scandalous candidate. In other words, they were safeguards in case the electorates felt that 'the people picked the wrong guy'.

It had literally nothing to do with giving smaller states power and it's incredible so many ignorant Americans truly believe that.

Holy shitting fuck you could not be any more wrong if you tried.

This is some serious standard setting shit right here.

What a useless post
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darkphoenix181
08/04/17 7:24:29 PM
#23:


iPhone_7 posted...
I'd rather one's vote not matter depending on what state their registered home is. One person, one vote.


then we might as well abolish states
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Tmaster148
08/04/17 7:27:20 PM
#24:


darkphoenix181 posted...
iPhone_7 posted...
I'd rather one's vote not matter depending on what state their registered home is. One person, one vote.


then we might as well abolish states


States still have a function outside of voting for president. Plus they already get representation via congress.
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Banana_Cyanide
08/04/17 7:29:45 PM
#25:


ChainedRedone posted...
That is the well-known reason for the electoral college. Would you like me to Google an article for you?

Yet you've already been PROVEN WRONG by a direct quote from James Madison but go ahead continue to be INFURIATINGLY WRONG while avoiding having to admit that all you want is for the democrats to be back in power FOREVER while the republicans can go fuck off somewhere else.
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darkphoenix181
08/04/17 7:31:59 PM
#26:


Tmaster148 posted...
darkphoenix181 posted...
iPhone_7 posted...
I'd rather one's vote not matter depending on what state their registered home is. One person, one vote.


then we might as well abolish states


States still have a function outside of voting for president. Plus they already get representation via congress.


curious

what in your opinion are the purposes of states?
if you can, can you give at least 5?
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ChainedRedone
08/04/17 9:34:10 PM
#27:


Banana_Cyanide posted...
ChainedRedone posted...
That is the well-known reason for the electoral college. Would you like me to Google an article for you?

Yet you've already been PROVEN WRONG by a direct quote from James Madison but go ahead continue to be INFURIATINGLY WRONG while avoiding having to admit that all you want is for the democrats to be back in power FOREVER while the republicans can go fuck off somewhere else.


It actually wasn't a quote from James Madison. It was a quote from Ben Shapiro.
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JohnLennon6
08/05/17 11:49:38 AM
#28:


darkphoenix181 posted...
Tmaster148 posted...
darkphoenix181 posted...
iPhone_7 posted...
I'd rather one's vote not matter depending on what state their registered home is. One person, one vote.


then we might as well abolish states


States still have a function outside of voting for president. Plus they already get representation via congress.


curious

what in your opinion are the purposes of states?
if you can, can you give at least 5?

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ChainedRedone
08/05/17 2:40:16 PM
#29:


JohnLennon6 posted...
darkphoenix181 posted...
Tmaster148 posted...
darkphoenix181 posted...
iPhone_7 posted...
I'd rather one's vote not matter depending on what state their registered home is. One person, one vote.


then we might as well abolish states


States still have a function outside of voting for president. Plus they already get representation via congress.


curious

what in your opinion are the purposes of states?
if you can, can you give at least 5?


Lmao ain't nobody going to do your homework, kids.
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JohnLennon6
08/05/17 3:08:26 PM
#30:


Sounds like a cop-out.
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Sephiroth1288
08/05/17 3:15:07 PM
#31:


ChainedRedone posted...
for its existence.

Pure democracy = tyranny of the majority

Without the EC, only the concerns of people living in population-dense coastal cities would matter and everyone else would get screwed.
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ChainedRedone
08/05/17 4:17:07 PM
#32:


Sephiroth1288 posted...
ChainedRedone posted...
for its existence.

Pure democracy = tyranny of the majority

Without the EC, only the concerns of people living in population-dense coastal cities would matter and everyone else would get screwed.


Again, a false romanization of the purpose of the electoral college. Jfc is every EC supporter this ignorant?
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ChainedRedone
08/05/17 4:17:58 PM
#33:


JohnLennon6 posted...
Sounds like a cop-out.


Sounds like the homework deadline is approaching.
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gamer167
08/05/17 4:21:00 PM
#34:


ChainedRedone posted...
thecoolgu posted...
It's all trolling and fluff until you tell us what it's for, Buster.


Electorates were supposed to be intelligent and knowledgable and vote against a tyranical or scandalous candidate. In other words, they were safeguards in case the electorates felt that 'the people picked the wrong guy'.

It had literally nothing to do with giving smaller states power and it's incredible so many ignorant Americans truly believe that.


Well Hillary didn't get elected so I guess it did its job.
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FL81
08/05/17 4:22:20 PM
#35:


iPhone_7 posted...
It was to prevent a demagogue from being elected if they won the popular vote

iPhone_7 posted...
Al Gore and Hillary Clinton.

seems to be working pretty well to me
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ChainedRedone
08/05/17 4:23:15 PM
#36:


gamer167 posted...
ChainedRedone posted...
thecoolgu posted...
It's all trolling and fluff until you tell us what it's for, Buster.


Electorates were supposed to be intelligent and knowledgable and vote against a tyranical or scandalous candidate. In other words, they were safeguards in case the electorates felt that 'the people picked the wrong guy'.

It had literally nothing to do with giving smaller states power and it's incredible so many ignorant Americans truly believe that.


Well Hillary didn't get elected so I guess it did its job.


He says this as Trump and his surrogates is under federal investigation. Lol
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Fill_Kessel
08/05/17 4:25:23 PM
#37:


Lol, why don't you just let the population elect the President?
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gamer167
08/05/17 4:25:37 PM
#38:


ChainedRedone posted...
gamer167 posted...
ChainedRedone posted...
thecoolgu posted...
It's all trolling and fluff until you tell us what it's for, Buster.


Electorates were supposed to be intelligent and knowledgable and vote against a tyranical or scandalous candidate. In other words, they were safeguards in case the electorates felt that 'the people picked the wrong guy'.

It had literally nothing to do with giving smaller states power and it's incredible so many ignorant Americans truly believe that.


Well Hillary didn't get elected so I guess it did its job.


He says this as Trump and his surrogates is under federal investigation. Lol


Guess he has more in common with Hillary than we thought.
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Sephiroth1288
08/05/17 4:27:49 PM
#39:


ChainedRedone posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
ChainedRedone posted...
for its existence.

Pure democracy = tyranny of the majority

Without the EC, only the concerns of people living in population-dense coastal cities would matter and everyone else would get screwed.


Again, a false romanization of the purpose of the electoral college. Jfc is every EC supporter this ignorant?

Protip: it's unwise to call people ignorant when you avoid addressing their argument.
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ChainedRedone
08/05/17 4:27:52 PM
#40:


Fill_Kessel posted...
Lol, why don't you just let the population elect the President?


Because Americans think the USA is a mystical land unlike every other nation on Earth. America is the only place in the world where urban voters would trample all over the interests of rural voters. It is a place where anarchy would ensure if the popular vote was the deciding factor, even though every other country in the world abides by that without any controversy.
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ChainedRedone
08/05/17 4:29:45 PM
#41:


Sephiroth1288 posted...
ChainedRedone posted...
Sephiroth1288 posted...
ChainedRedone posted...
for its existence.

Pure democracy = tyranny of the majority

Without the EC, only the concerns of people living in population-dense coastal cities would matter and everyone else would get screwed.


Again, a false romanization of the purpose of the electoral college. Jfc is every EC supporter this ignorant?

Protip: it's unwise to call people ignorant when you avoid addressing their argument.


I didn't avoid. I just told you that wasn't the purpose. It was not to give rural voters a bigger say. It was to prevent a demagogue from being elected by the unintelligent rabble. I've been saying it this entire topic. It's modern day Republicans that invented the notion that the EC purpose is so that big population states don't always decide elections.
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Damn_Underscore
08/05/17 4:32:37 PM
#42:


Hillary should have won easily and she still lost, get over it.
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ChainedRedone
08/05/17 4:33:51 PM
#43:


Damn_Underscore posted...
Hillary should have won easily and she still lost, get over it.


When did I mention Hilary? Try again.
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Sephiroth1288
08/05/17 4:34:00 PM
#44:


ChainedRedone posted...
I didn't avoid. I just told you that wasn't the purpose. It was not to give rural voters a bigger say. It was to prevent a demagogue from being elected by the unintelligent rabble.

All politicians are "demagogues". Don't use words when you don't know what they mean.
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ChainedRedone
08/05/17 4:34:48 PM
#45:


Sephiroth1288 posted...
ChainedRedone posted...
I didn't avoid. I just told you that wasn't the purpose. It was not to give rural voters a bigger say. It was to prevent a demagogue from being elected by the unintelligent rabble.

All politicians are "demagogues". Don't use words when you don't know what they mean.


That's untrue. Maybe you should look up the definition
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The Admiral
08/05/17 4:35:46 PM
#46:


Of course regressive liberals think the system failed when it resulted in a candidate they don't like and who hurts their feelings daily. Much easier to blame the electoral college than the millions of lazy fellow liberals who decided not to vote on Election Day.
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sktgamer_13dude
08/05/17 4:36:44 PM
#47:


Sephiroth1288 posted...
ChainedRedone posted...
I didn't avoid. I just told you that wasn't the purpose. It was not to give rural voters a bigger say. It was to prevent a demagogue from being elected by the unintelligent rabble.

All politicians are "demagogues". Don't use words when you don't know what they mean.

You called Nazi's leftists and weren't anti-gay.

It's ironic that you're trying to talk down at someone.
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Sephiroth1288
08/05/17 4:38:25 PM
#48:


sktgamer_13dude posted...
You called Nazi's leftists and anti-gay.

Because they are leftists and anti-gay...
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sktgamer_13dude
08/05/17 4:38:38 PM
#49:


The Admiral posted...
Of course regressive liberals think the system failed when it resulted in a candidate they don't like and who hurts their feelings daily. Much easier to blame the electoral college than the millions of lazy fellow liberals who decided not to vote on Election Day.

Electoral college is stupid. Hillary didn't 100% lose because of it though. She lost because she failed to campaign the Rust Belt states along with multiple other grievances.

You can be critical against the system without blaming it for a loss.

Shut the fuck up.
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yemmy
08/05/17 4:39:17 PM
#50:


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