Poll of the Day > Why do regresive leftists give ISLAM a pass?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Liberal Atheists are attacked when they criticize ISLAM... Dawkins was uninvited by Berkley for critizicing ISLAM..that is right for critizism ISLAM not muslims

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/richard-dawkins-islamophobic-berkeley-event-cancelled-islam-muslim-uc-university-california-a7860281.html

Police Attempted to take 'alah is gay' signs from gay pride parade but doesnt mind the 'Jesus is gay' signs

http://anglicanmainstream.org/lgbt-pride-london-police-attempt-to-remove-allah-is-gay-placards-for-causing-offence/


They even attack atheists and gays to eliminate critizism of Islam...


That is not Liberal...that is REGRESIVE

If christians were being actively persecuted by a nation and a president you might have a point.

You're basically saying "All lives matter", and that doesn't work either. Only some have been truly oppressed and it's those that we're working to protect.

Not to mention the extremism argument.

Did you even put any effort into this?
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Thunder_54 posted...

If christians were being actively persecuted by a nation and a president you might have a point.

You're basically saying "All lives matter", and that doesn't work either. Only some have been truly oppressed and it's those that we're working to protect.

Not to mention the extremism argument.

Did you even put any effort into this?

That is why I am a liberal and you are a regressive who should stop using the liberal label

Ideas have no rights, it is ok to defend muslims but not to defend islam

This topic made my brain draw up an alternative reality that got gay terrorists that acts like Muslim terrorists.
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Marginalized people can do no wrong, apparently.

It's very simple: Christians never murder you for mocking them and their faith. Some Muslims do. In other words, regressives "are chicken."
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Currant_Kaiser posted...

Marginalized

Now there's a word I haven't heard in a while
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What this about Dawkins? Hasn't his position remained unchanged?

Allahu Ackbar...

Because why not give Islam a pass?
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Because the right side doesn't. It's pretty predictable. Anything that one side says, the other will oppose. It really doesn't matter what the issue is. This stupidity is why there isn't any significant progress in either direction.
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Thunder_54 posted...

If christians were being actively persecuted by a nation and a president you might have a point.

You're basically saying "All lives matter", and that doesn't work either. Only some have been truly oppressed and it's those that we're working to protect.

Not to mention the extremism argument.

Did you even put any effort into this?

This is a really stupid point. There's a massive difference between persecuting Muslims and attacking Islam.

Because their agenda is all about dismantling the straight, white, Christian, capitalist "patriarchy" at all costs. They would support Satan himself if he pushed that agenda
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Because they don't want to be called a racist.
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Because Islam is a religion of peace, especially for women ;)
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If you can't draw a line from the religion to those who practice it then you probably couldn't understand the point anyway.
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I don't understand it either, TC. And it's rather frustrating to see Democrats and liberals throw away elections over the issue, defending an ideology that's completely the opposite of everything they're supposed to stand for.

Thunder_54 posted...

If you can't draw a line from the religion to those who practice it then you probably couldn't understand the point anyway.

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Most of you are ignorant of the true reason. It's all based on votes. They got you to believe in the reason and tie the line. The Muslim support is for votes. It's as simple as that.
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EightySeven posted...

There's a massive difference between persecuting Muslims and attacking Islam.

For being such a massive difference, very few people actually bother to understand it. I don't see too many "anti-Islam" protests/movements that aren't just a front for attacking Muslims.

Anyways, people give Islam a pass because treating "Islam" like it's a uniform entity is a bit like treating Christianity as a uniform entity. Both religions have over a billion followers, from all walks of life, and have numerous different sects that vary wildly in their beliefs and comportment. There's an enormous difference between, say, Unitarians and Baptists in Christianity - Islam is no different.

So it's kind of silly to just issue blanket criticism of such a massive movement and expect it to have any meaning.

GrimCyclone posted...

Most of you are ignorant of the true reason. It's all based on votes. They got you to believe in the reason and tie the line. The Muslim support is for votes. It's as simple as that.

I could not give less of a shit about votes and most leftists are the same way. This observation might be valid for politicians and their strategists, but it applies to almost no one else.
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Well, because hippies are idiots...
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if you explained Islam to me for the first time I would have a very hard time imagining any female defend that sexist bullshit but they have found a way. "Hijab is feminist" my ass
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I strongly dislike Islam because, in common with other irrational belief systems that seek to control people with myths, fairy tales and superstitions ultimately backed by the threat of heavenly (or earthly) punishment for dissenters, it's an ideology that fits into the liberal, secular-humanistic society that I believe in about as well as a square peg in a round hole.

But that doesn't mean you can't separate the human rights and civil liberties of the holders of a belief from criticism of the belief itself. (No ideology is, or should be, immune from criticism.) There's no contradiction between being willing to criticize Islam as a flawed ideology and being willing to defend Muslims from injustice or violence -- any more than there's a contradiction between pointing out that Scientology is a fraud and insisting that Scientologists are nevertheless entitled to constitutional rights.
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How dare yall make fun of the worlds most marginalized group... the largest religion in the world.
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Lokarin posted...

How dare yall make fun of the worlds most marginalized group... the largest religion in the world.

Christianity?

acesxhigh posted...

"Hijab is feminist" my ass

As long as the woman isn't pressured into it, who cares what she wears?

I mean, isn't the whole point of feminism to ensure that women have their rights and choices respected? This doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to me.

Telling a woman to take off her hijab because it's sexist and impugns her better nature is really no different than the dictatorships on the other side of the world who tell women to put them on for the exact same reasons.
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darkknight109 posted...

Telling a woman to take off her hijab because it's sexist and impugns her better nature is really no different than the dictatorships on the other side of the world who tell women to put them on for the exact same reasons.

What the fuck? Yes it is!!!!!!!!
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acesxhigh posted...

What the f***? Yes it is!!!!!!!!

Put this on for your own good!

Take this off for your own good!
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@darkknight109
You're a tool of the establishment. It matters not what you or your friends think. On that level of you're anti-Christian and pro-Muslim you're a hypocrite anyway so either way you lose in my book unless you treat Christians with just as much respect.

and if you do then we have no problems.
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darkknight109 posted...

Lokarin posted...

... the largest religion in the world.

Christianity?

No, Islam...
Both religions have way too many followers for comfort, though.

darkknight109 posted...

acesxhigh posted...

"Hijab is feminist" my ass

As long as the woman isn't pressured into it, who cares what she wears?

You don't think being brainwashed from childhood onwards to think that it's blasphemous to show your skin is "pressuring" a woman? Let alone if she goes against the dogma in a country run by Muslims, she's going to be in trouble....

Lokarin posted...

acesxhigh posted...

What the f***? Yes it is!!!!!!!!

Put this on for your own good!

Take this off for your own good!

The key difference being that the former is, like, punishable by violence and eternal damnation.
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acesxhigh posted...

What the fuck? Yes it is!!!!!!!!

Explain how. In both cases you're telling a woman what she should not wear, evidently because you think she's too stupid to understand the meaning behind the garments she's putting on.

GrimCyclone posted...

You're a tool of the establishment. It matters not what you or your friends think.

Um... yes. Yes it does. What I think is called "an opinion" and everyone is entitled to theirs.

GrimCyclone posted...

On that level of you're anti-Christian and pro-Muslim you're a hypocrite anyway so either way you lose in my book unless you treat Christians with just as much respect.

Dude... I *am* a Christian and have said nothing even vaguely anti-Christian here or elsewhere. You're so far off base I'm actually laughing at your post.

streamofthesky posted...

No, Islam...

Islam is not the world's largest religion. Christianity has them beat by about half a billion adherents.

streamofthesky posted...

You don't think being brainwashed from childhood onwards to think that it's blasphemous to show your skin is "pressuring" a woman?

That sounds to me like you have a problem with the brainwashing and pressuring, not the decision to wear the garment. And I would agree with you in that case.

streamofthesky posted...

Let alone if she goes against the dogma in a country run by Muslims, she's going to be in trouble....

As above, your objection sounds like it's with the punishment those countries levy for failure to comply with their dress code. And, once again, you would not have any argument from me on that point.

Hell, that *is* my point - telling someone to wear is dumb, and that applies whether you're saying "Take off your hijab!" or "Put on your hijab!"

acesxhigh posted...

The key difference being that the former is, like, punishable by violence and eternal damnation.

Like stream up there, you're objecting to the punishment then. And you're correct to do so.

But that's also a separate issue. Restricting ourselves purely to the matter of telling women how to dress, there is no meaningful difference between the two scenarios I described.
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darkknight109 posted...

Like stream up there, you're objecting to the punishment then. And you're correct to do so.

Yes, I am.
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@darkknight109
You just admitted you're a Christian on Poll of The Day. At this point, nothing else I said in regards to any other issue pales to that and I can just sit out now.

See, at this point, your only out for the crew on this board is to claim you're ultra liberal economically and socially to the point that in their minds you're not much of a Christian. And if you do then ... well they'd be right.

So go ahead and tell us out "progressive" you are and how you don't intend to tell anyone about Jesus. You're a cool liberal, bro. Chadbrochillz. Right?

Or will you take the antihero way out and pretend you don't give a shit about what the crew here thinks of you? I'd respect that. Either way, you're the only one with anything to lose.
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acesxhigh posted...

"Hijab is feminist" my ass

It might count as feminist if the woman is wearing it to make herself less attractive and therefore less likely to get hit on by random guys.

OmegaM posted...

acesxhigh posted...

"Hijab is feminist" my ass

It might count as feminist if the woman is wearing it to make herself less attractive and therefore less likely to get hit on by random guys.

Oh brother.. are you fucking kidding me? You're entire verbiage is based on stretching.

You know what? You know what?
I'm done. I'm just fucking done.
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Islam either needs to reform itself or go away entirely. Neither outcomes are likely to happen within the next three centuries.
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GrimCyclone posted...

@darkknight109
You just admitted you're a Christian on Poll of The Day. At this point, nothing else I said in regards to any other issue pales to that and I can just sit out now.

See, at this point, your only out for the crew on this board is to claim you're ultra liberal economically and socially to the point that in their minds you're not much of a Christian. And if you do then ... well they'd be right.

So go ahead and tell us out "progressive" you are and how you don't intend to tell anyone about Jesus. You're a cool liberal, bro. Chadbrochillz. Right?

Or will you take the antihero way out and pretend you don't give a shit about what the crew here thinks of you? I'd respect that. Either way, you're the only one with anything to lose.

.....what the fuck is this post?

I don't even understand what you're trying to say.

Like, are you trying to say I'm about to have a swarm of atheists clamouring for my head? Because that hasn't happened so far. I don't advertise that I'm a Christian, but I've never shied away from mentioning it when its relevant to the conversation, and in 15 years on this board I've never caught much flak for it, aside from a handful of idiots.
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Because people are stupid and ignorant; especially on the Regressive side.

As I see it, the problem is this. Most of these people have been raised in a society in which two religions (three if you actually know what you're talking about) are dominate. Catholicism, Protestantism, and Judaism. While the latter doesn't have as many followers in the west as the other religions it does have a sizable chunk of cultural influence and media prominence. Meanwhile, thanks to 9/11, Islam has been regarded as an anathema and hotbed of hate. Who can blame such a viewpoint from arising when the middle east seems to be in a constant state of turmoil?

However, since individual muslims are, shockingly, individuals, they often don't fit the narrative of crazy religious fanatics who spend their days with goats and bowing down to worship a god who wants them to sacrifice themselves.

The result is a perceived oppression; especially if one mixes in both western standards and the notion that the group is not responsible for the actions of the individual. Did the Israeli army utilize a missile to blow up a building and killed a family of four for doing it? The Israeli government is utterly evil because it condemned them to die! Nevermind why said building was attacked in the first place or the reasons for said family being there or anything of the sort. Did a Palestinian utilize a car bomb in order to blow up a marketplace? The Palestinians aren't responsible for the actions of one, disturbed, individual! It's likely the Israeli governments fault for providing a situation where he would be aggravated enough to hurt innocents! Please note, I'm trying to avoid taking a stance on the Israel/Palestine dispute here. I'm trying to point out how easy it is to present someone as being oppressed by disregarding the actions of an individual as well as present someone as an oppressor if government oversight is involved.

The result is, basically, a situation in which the muslim can do no wrong while the christian/jew is always the oppressor. Did someone refuse to remove their hijab for airport security claiming 'religious reasons' before being denied entry to the plane as a result? If they weren't carrying a bomb they were unfairly targeted as a result of their religion (since the government/corporation set up such a requirement/mandate) and it doesn't help that a lot of people dislike airport security. Were they smuggling a bomb? The actions of the individual don't represent the group; so the individual was clearly disturbed and lashing out against oppression and it's the fault of the government for being the oppressors.

Now, personally, I wouldn't have a beef with Islam if they stopped giving me cattle. I've seen muslims get away far too often with stuff that christians, jews, and basically anyone else would get condemned for. Sometimes even being applauded for doing it. I've seen things like people willing to cover up rape attacks simply because the rapist was muslim and they felt it would be oppressive. This is hardly the tip of the iceberg. This isn't healthy. It's like having a destructive child rampaging through the house and destroying everything while the mother goes 'bless him' and the father gets jailed for child abuse the moment he tries to stop it.
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darkknight109 posted...

For being such a massive difference, very few people actually bother to understand it.

This statement can apply to basically anything. People rarely bother to understand anything beyond a superficial level. It's totally irrelevant to the topic at hand and what I was saying though. Let me break down into a couple of simple examples to illustrate the difference, though, because you're right for whatever reason people do seem to have trouble separating the two:

- "Fuck Muslims, they should go back to where they came from" <- Wrong

- "I think the Quran teaches a despicable ideology" <- perfectly alright even if potentially inflammatory


Now you could probably make a good argument that if someone says the second quote just for the purposes of trolling on the Internet then they're probably just an asshole. You could probably also argue that there are better ways to go about criticizing it, ones that aren't quite as inflammatory, but the point remains that ideas should never be off limits from criticism.

EightySeven posted...

darkknight109 posted...

For being such a massive difference, very few people actually bother to understand it.

This statement can apply to basically anything. People rarely bother to understand anything beyond a superficial level. It's totally irrelevant to the topic at hand and what I was saying though. Let me break down into a couple of simple examples to illustrate the difference, though, because you're right for whatever reason people do seem to have trouble separating the two:

- "Fuck Muslims, they should go back to where they came from" <- Wrong

- "I think the Quran teaches a despicable ideology" <- perfectly alright even if potentially inflammatory


Now you could probably make a good argument that if someone says the second quote just for the purposes of trolling on the Internet then they're probably just an asshole. You could probably also argue that there are better ways to go about criticizing it, ones that aren't quite as inflammatory, but the point remains that ideas should never be off limits from criticism.

I'm...actually in agreement here.
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Even Muslims reformers who are trying to make the religion better are attacked by regressive
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/anti-extremism-muslim-far-left-politics-quilliam-social-reform-a7388931.html

ChipChipperson posted...

Because their agenda is all about dismantling the straight, white, Christian, capitalist "patriarchy" at all costs. They would support Satan himself if he pushed that agenda

@ChipChipperson even if that happened they won't end there some regresive are already attacking gay men from being transphobic and attacking east asians like Japanese and koreans for being 'sexist' and 'as privileged as europeans'

DrChocolate posted...

ChipChipperson posted...

Because their agenda is all about dismantling the straight, white, Christian, capitalist "patriarchy" at all costs. They would support Satan himself if he pushed that agenda

@ChipChipperson even if that happened they won't end there some regresive are already attacking gay men from being transphobic and attacking east asians like Japanese and koreans for being 'sexist' and 'as privileged as europeans'

I hear there's "a war" going on between some feminist factions and the transgender community. There were plenty feminists pissed off when Caitlyn Jenner (Bruce Jenner) was named "Woman of the Year" in 2015.
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Person106 posted...

DrChocolate posted...

ChipChipperson posted...

Because their agenda is all about dismantling the straight, white, Christian, capitalist "patriarchy" at all costs. They would support Satan himself if he pushed that agenda

@ChipChipperson even if that happened they won't end there some regresive are already attacking gay men from being transphobic and attacking east asians like Japanese and koreans for being 'sexist' and 'as privileged as europeans'

I hear there's "a war" going on between some feminist factions and the transgender community. There were plenty feminists pissed off when Caitlyn Jenner (Bruce Jenner) was named "Woman of the Year" in 2015.

Yes, that is an exampledioxxys posted...

Even Muslims reformers who are trying to make the religion better are attacked by regressive
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/anti-extremism-muslim-far-left-politics-quilliam-social-reform-a7388931.html

Yep and even Atheists who have no reason to defend either @Person106 are attacked if they attack ISLAM the religion. when in fact atheists are the most persecuted religious minority in the world.

Oh, never mind. yourDaddie/MetalGearLink has used this account here recently.