Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 415: Feel the GLOW. On Netflix.

(+) Yeah! (+)

I actually thought about that and thought the same thing haha.

MVP feels like a guy this might be true for but I can't think of any specific great match. I know he has also had some good ones with Benoit-- I strangely really liked some of his random Smackdown matches with Batista too (though I'm sure none of the latter should be considered great by any definition). I also didn't see enough of his New Japan stuff to be sure (though I heard he underwhelmed over there anyway).

I'm also the wrong guy to ask as I probably shift every MVP match up half a star over what everyone else would have it at.
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MVP in njpw was a flop

And I find myself struggling really bad with farooq and I love the guy.
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/world-wrestling-entertainment-gets-toehold-in-china-with-streaming-deal-1502357546

A company-commissioned study two years ago concluded that China’s major cities are home to more than 140 million WWE fans

THEY KEEP FALLING FOR THESE STUDIES
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Amusingly I personally am vaguely humoring Triple H for this question

I really liked his match with Shawn Michaels at Summerslam 2002 but most of the Triple H "classics" fall really flat for me-- like any match where Triple H is a face for instance is going to be garbage for me, which eliminates like 1/4 of em right off. Any match where he's booked in god mode Triple H I kick out of everything while getting beat up way too much is gonna hurt too, so that tosses out most of his well regarded matches with Foley and Taker too.

The only reason I hesitate is he has so many supposedly highly regarded matches that I feel like I must be missing one or two other ones. Like I bet one of his matches with Austin is probably great even to me? But one isn't coming to mind.
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Wouldn't Shane's streaming company have told them this was a bad idea? Both China and Japan (based on NJPW World numbers) don't seem like markets that go for streaming at all.

Besides, 140 million fans?...bullshit. I doubt 10% of Americans are WWE fans, much less the Chinese.
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Lopen posted...

Amusingly I personally am vaguely humoring Triple H for this question

I really liked his match with Shawn Michaels at Summerslam 2002 but most of the Triple H "classics" fall really flat for me-- like any match where Triple H is a face for instance is going to be garbage for me, which eliminates like 1/4 of em right off. Any match where he's booked in god mode Triple H I kick out of everything while getting beat up way too much is gonna hurt too, so that tosses out most of his well regarded matches with Foley and Taker too.

The only reason I hesitate is he has so many supposedly highly regarded matches that I feel like I must be missing one or two other ones. Like I bet one of his matches with Austin is probably great even to me? But one isn't coming to mind.

None of the ones with The Rock? Cena?
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Lopen posted...

Amusingly I personally am vaguely humoring Triple H for this question

I really liked his match with Shawn Michaels at Summerslam 2002 but most of the Triple H "classics" fall really flat for me-- like any match where Triple H is a face for instance is going to be garbage for me, which eliminates like 1/4 of em right off. Any match where he's booked in god mode Triple H I kick out of everything while getting beat up way too much is gonna hurt too, so that tosses out most of his well regarded matches with Foley and Taker too.

The only reason I hesitate is he has so many supposedly highly regarded matches that I feel like I must be missing one or two other ones. Like I bet one of his matches with Austin is probably great even to me? But one isn't coming to mind.

Ladder Match with Rock at SS 98
Cactus Jack at RR2000
3 Stages of Hell NWO 2001 (how he won that is anyone's guess)
HBK at SS 2002
Elimination Chamber 2002 (Admittedly, it is hard to make those good)
Triple Threat at Mania XX
End of an Era at Mania XXVIII (storytelling, if not in-ring)
Bryan at WMXXX
And I'm probably missing plenty. I didn't see the Rock Ironman Match or the Fully Loaded Jericho match (which people praise a lot)
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Here are his matches sorted by Meltzer rating

https://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=496&page=10&sortby=colMeltzer&sorttype=DESC

The 3 Stages of Hell with Austin is on top

Also of note: the WM20 triple threat and the Fully Loaded 2000 LMS with Jericho
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I never liked the Rock/HHH feud much. I'm sure in a vacuum one of em would be great but that was the original "repetitive booking penalty" feud.

Cena/HHH I know I wasn't too big on the Mania one. I haven't seen any of the others that weren't on Raw. Night of Champions 2008 was supposed to be good? Maybe I'll watch that at some point.

Austin vs Triple H Three Stages of Hell seems like one to rewatch-- I think I have seen it in the past but with that rating and Austin being the type of opponent I'd be really surprised would rub me the wrong way vs Triple H, it's probably better than I remember.
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https://twitter.com/coupdebanks/status/895182793768042496

CFO needs to give up.
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I really liked both the NoC match with Cena and their odd Raw one

It's hilarious on that list to see four Cena vs Trips matches clustered together at ***3/4
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I literally just had a post about how the Austin/HHH 3SOH is my favourite match of all time typed up but lost it. Blah

Cody I'd want to give credit for the matches with the Shield, but 1v1 so blah. I remember really enjoying an FCA he had with Rey.

Reigns has the match with Lesnar...and also the one with Bryan I guess. Hrm

Miz only has Title vs. Career with Ziggler

Has Kane ever had a great singles match? He's had some pretty good ones but I can't think of anything great.
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Also not to be forgotten is HHH vs. Bryan

Might even be HHH's best non-gimmick match
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Kane's best match by far is Taker I: the 3 Tombstone Mania match. The build and the payoff was fantastic. Everyone remembers the 3 Tombstones, but Taker pulled off an Electric Chair (Seriously, an electric chair drop of all fucking things), plus a crazy suicide dive into an announce table. It features like the best Paul Bearer scream ever.
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Miz vs Ziggler's ladder was better than Title vs Career

That being said Miz might be a good answer for this-- mostly because I'm not sure Title vs Career was great or not. It's either 1 or 2 with him.
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Strife2 posted...

Kane's best match by far is Taker I: the 3 Tombstone Mania match. The build and the payoff was fantastic. Everyone remembers the 3 Tombstones, but Taker pulled off an Electric Chair (Seriously, an electric chair drop of all fucking things), plus a crazy suicide dive into an announce table. It features like the best Paul Bearer scream ever.

I was thinking that but I haven't actually seen the match
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Would like to say Jay Lethal...but I don't think I like any of his matches.

For a guy who was so good in tags, Bobby Fish sorta qualifies for his singles run?

Looking at NJPW's side, Yujiro sorta qualifies, in the sea of crud, he's got the one amazing match.

Yano has that one serious match that's good.
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Would like to say Jay Lethal...but I don't think I like any of his matches.

He was pretty good in that final match in the "Dudleys vs X-Division" feud where he went over massively and then they did NOTHING with it.

Also that was a six man tag so maybe it doesn't count?
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Lopen posted...

Miz vs Ziggler's ladder was better than Title vs Career

That being said Miz might be a good answer for this-- mostly because I'm not sure Title vs Career was great or not. It's either 1 or 2 with him.

His Falls Count Anywhere match with Morrison is definitely another potential one for him
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Dave doing a breakdown of WWE's Q2 financials last night remarked at how the company's profit for the whole quarter, which included WM weekend, basically equals one mediocre PPV's profits for UFC

He went back to the old refrain of how dumb it was to immediately start giving WM away on the Network from day 1 and not keeping that as the one remaining real full price PPV.

But hey here come 140 million Chinese fans right?
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voltch posted...

Would like to say Jay Lethal...but I don't think I like any of his matches.

Not a big indie guy but I've only seen one Lethal match and it's one of my favourite matches

I am going to ROH next Saturday though!
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Honestly the interaction of Wrestlemania and the Network is a bit of a trap no matter how you slice it.

You can't not give that on the Network, as that makes the Network feel cheap, and would probably tank subscription numbers
But you can't just give that on the Network, as that drops the profit margin on your money PPV to beans

I think the real thing to take away from all of this is that the WWE needed a different model for their product if they were going to go in on the Network.
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But WM isn't on the Network 11 months of the year anyway, and yeah numbers drop but they don't CRATER.

They used to make RIDICULOUS money on WM
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I'm saying I think Wrestlemania explicitly being removed from the Network would cheapen the perception of the overall value of the Network, and would put overall Network numbers below what they'd be on non-Mania months

This isn't like, proven (obviously), but it's what I think would happen.
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Oh, for sure, they can't do it now.

He meant from the start there should never have been the expectation that WM would be included
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Well it'd be even worse to do it now, but I think it'd suffer either way. "This service is really awesome-- you get everything but our marquee show of the year!" is just not a good look for WWE network being worth getting no matter how you sugar coat it-- even if realistically speaking it's a pretty minor part of the value of the network.
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The sensible thing would have been to tier it.

A $9.99 version that's like a Netflix, where you can access previous shows, PPVs, and specials. They'd upload PPVs like a week after they air.

A $14.99 version that would have the live and original content, including PPVs.
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I would pay more for the network to have Raw and SmackDown live on there just so I could get rid of PlayStation Vue
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Would you be willing to pay $10 Million per month? Because that's what they would be throwing away to do that.
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Yes
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hey @Jakyl25 I know someone suggested Sultan's topic, but I think I want to hear from you most anyways

Could you give us some lists of your favorite stuff? Like a certain year of ppv events to watch, or one ppv from each year, or a specific match or feud you found to be great. Make us your must watch play list
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I am hitting some burn out. I have not watched the last raw or smackdown ppv because didnt catch them live (and I was sooo hype for joe and lesnar) and even with raw and SD Im still a week or 2 behind. I need something to give me hope
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ScareChan posted...

I am hitting some burn out. I have not watched the last raw or smackdown ppv because didnt catch them live (and I was sooo hype for joe and lesnar) and even with raw and SD Im still a week or 2 behind. I need something to give me hope

I skip through RAW normally now, and I've enjoyed the last few weeks of SD. Pretty fun matches last week across the board.
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I hear Cena and Nakamura put on a good match and I am excited for it, but just...havent
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Also a pretty great AJ/Owens match (finally), a great Uso promo and a fantastic Breezango segment. It was a really solid episode.
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yeah I love breezango so I want to see it, but its like something is literally stopping me lately. Its very weird
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I know that I was feeling burnt out and dropping RAW for a while helped.
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Two weeks ago was a Rusev/Gable match that proved they picked the wrong Alpha member., which has also helped SD get back some mojo.

Jordan has to be a heel in waiting. There's just no way this isn't a con. If not, they better pray Miz's punchable face is so punchable that Jordan is cheered.

But despite Gable's great showings, SD does tend to let midcard guys fade...fucking Harper, Jesus.
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I think Gable is going to get a push, actually. It's weird. I almost think they like Gable better than Jordan.
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One of the issues facing Gable is the US title is held by main eventers AJ and Owens. Gable is not sniffing that for a bit, unless AJ follows through on the Open Challenge stuff.

Getting Gable's character going is gonna take some time.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

I think Gable is going to get a push, actually. It's weird. I almost think they like Gable better than Jordan.

spoilers. they do. They put gable with jordan to help jordan figure it out because theyknow they have something withgable
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Strife2 posted...

One of the issues facing Gable is the US title is held by main eventers AJ and Owens. Gable is not sniffing that for a bit, unless AJ follows through on the Open Challenge stuff.

Getting Gable's character going is gonna take some time.

Your second statement probably works in tandem with the US title. Keep him out of the picture, let him grow, and then pull the trigger. It will feel much more organic.
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As long as he faces the Rusevs and Mahals, rather than Kanellis or English, goodie. I found it odd Rusev said he had no competition when Gable showed off that much.
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I'm not buying that Gable goes anywhere until it happens. He's done less and certainly has far less momentum than Harper did.
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ScareChan posted...

hey @Jakyl25 I know someone suggested Sultan's topic, but I think I want to hear from you most anyways

Could you give us some lists of your favorite stuff? Like a certain year of ppv events to watch, or one ppv from each year, or a specific match or feud you found to be great. Make us your must watch play list

I'm really not going to have hugely different answers than most

When you're burnt out, watch something with a completely different style. Watch '80s Flair matches.

Watch a whole NJPW G1 or Juniors tournament.

Watch WWF Raw/PPVs starting from Summerslam 1996

Watch WCW Nitros/PPVs starting from Slamboree 1996

Watch ECW's stuff starting from 1994

Watch a season of CHIKARA

Watch that playlist on the Network of 30 straight Miz vs Ziggler matches <_<
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Does anyone else feel like Smackdown should be longer?

I know, I know. Fuck long shows. I totally understand. But every week on Smackdown, they just have something disappearing. Like what happened to Aiden English this week? What happened to Mike & Maria vs Sami Zayn? Where was Nakamura? Where was Gable? Where was Becky? Sometimes Fashion Police is missing. Sometimes Lana/Tamina is missing. For the longest time even Tye Dillinger was missing. Where have the Hype Bros been after Zack Ryder came back? Where are Harper and Rowan? Dolph Ziggler is missing too.

There's a lot of stuff that goes in and out of Smackdown a lot of times, mostly in the undercard, and it's really unfortunate that it makes the undercard suffer a lot as a result. But what's going to be really bad is when a lot of these guys come back, where will they have the time for it? Who disappears after then? I don't think Smackdown will suck with more time because they usually manage to make entertaining segments and matches (though to RAW's credit, I've heard the shows are much better lately). It just seems like Smackdown has the same size roster as RAW (if you take out the Cruiserweights who get anywhere from 5-15 minutes screen time total each week anyway), but Smackdown has a lot less time to do with them. I really feel that they could use some extra time in their show.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Does anyone else feel like Smackdown should be longer?

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Fuck long shows.

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Tbh, the only thing that makes shows seem long is the content! Just because RAW usually burns us doesn't mean three hours is too long! But they definitely need to spread RAW and Smackdown apart in the week. The Monday/Tuesday thing is painful for five hours, let alone six.
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Short answer...no

Long answer NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
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bring back jomo
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