Poll of the Day > Trump says transgenders aren't allowed in the military, ok?

(+) Yeah! (+)

ZiggiStardust posted...

"After consultation with my generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States government will not accept or allow transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. military,” Mr. Trump wrote. “Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail.

So, I'm no Trump supporter by any means. In fact, I think he's pretty much a piece of shit. But in this case I think he has a point. I think maybe he just should have worded it differently.

The few trans friends I have pay a stupid amount of money for medical upkeep after their transitioning, plus the amount they pay for medication is crazy. Both of them have good jobs, and they say it's worth the cost, so if they can afford it, more power to them, ok?

But looking to the gov't to take care of those costs is asking too much. Hell, most normal people with medical issues are released from service because it's more of a financial and physical burden than the military should have to handle, ok?

So he's going after the other 1%?

I read this as "Trump says kindergarteners aren't allowed in the military, ok?" btw.

Would have been way more awesome announcement to be honest.
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ZiggiStardust posted...

CountessRolab posted...

ZiggiStardust posted...

CountessRolab posted...

God forbid a transgender person be allowed to serve their country. Absolutely absurd. Trump is an idiot.

my reaction would be the same, especially if they're still patriotic enough after the harassment they endure from trump and his office of assholes, ok?

but the cost is still too high to accommodate these people.

Then remove sex change surgeries from the list of benefits? Outright banning trans people is discriminatory, and the cost excuse is a thinly veiled sham.

But then they'd say they're hand-picking what certain demographics can and can't get. It's going to be seen as discriminatory either way, this is just the route that is cheaper, which is what the dept of defense should strive for right now, ok?

lol
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The_Beta_Male posted...

yeah this was the first thing i read today and it gave me a beaming smile

God bless Emperor Trump, this is the right decision.

$5 says Shenti won't actually be able to articulate a valid reason for saying this.
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I'm fine with them serving. I think it's fucking stupid for taxpayers to fund their surgery (or pay for boner pills, and other luxuries).
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adjl posted...

The_Beta_Male posted...

yeah this was the first thing i read today and it gave me a beaming smile

God bless Emperor Trump, this is the right decision.

$5 says Shenti won't actually be able to articulate a valid reason for saying this.

Anyone who takes that bet either has too much money or too little sense.

TheCyborgNinja posted...

I'm fine with them serving. I think it's fucking stupid for taxpayers to fund their surgery (or pay for boner pills, and other luxuries).

Sex reassignment surgery isn't a luxury, though, any more so than antidepressants are for depressed people. It's one of the ways in which the (life-threatening) condition is treated, not something entirely elective.
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adjl posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

I'm fine with them serving. I think it's fucking stupid for taxpayers to fund their surgery (or pay for boner pills, and other luxuries).

Sex reassignment surgery isn't a luxury, though, any more so than antidepressants are for depressed people. It's one of the ways in which the (life-threatening) condition is treated, not something entirely elective.

I guess we will agree to disagree. I have asthma (that was life threatening as a kid) but didn't expect a lung transplant. Life isn't fair and you can't expect taxpayers to cover everything, especially things like this where you're able to live with it, albeit uncomfortably, but again, life never has been nor will be fair. It's unreasonable to expect otherwise.

Let them serve, let them pay for their own surgery. It's honestly not that different from something cosmetic, in spite of the increased seriousness surrounding it. It must suck to be in a body you find unrelatable gender-wise, but it also sucks to be born lots of other ways. I bet many dwarves wish they were taller.
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Maybe that's why they cancelled the draft.... 'cuz it'd mean they'd have to pay medical bills.
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TheCyborgNinja posted...

adjl posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

I'm fine with them serving. I think it's fucking stupid for taxpayers to fund their surgery (or pay for boner pills, and other luxuries).

Sex reassignment surgery isn't a luxury, though, any more so than antidepressants are for depressed people. It's one of the ways in which the (life-threatening) condition is treated, not something entirely elective.

I guess we will agree to disagree. I have asthma (that was life threatening as a kid) but didn't expect a lung transplant.

And transgender people don't expect a free cochlear implant. What does not expecting an unrelated procedure have to do with anything?

Furthermore, the expectation here comes from the military covering medical bills. That's an advertised part of the job, not just some a priori sense of entitlement.
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adjl posted...

The_Beta_Male posted...

yeah this was the first thing i read today and it gave me a beaming smile

God bless Emperor Trump, this is the right decision.

$5 says Shenti won't actually be able to articulate a valid reason for saying this.

trying to bait me into losing a whopping 0 karma? everyone knows my opinion of transgenders by now
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adjl posted...

Sex reassignment surgery isn't a luxury, though, any more so than antidepressants are for depressed people. It's one of the ways in which the (life-threatening) condition is treated, not something entirely elective.

Lol no. It's absolutely a "luxury"

The_Beta_Male posted...

adjl posted...

The_Beta_Male posted...

yeah this was the first thing i read today and it gave me a beaming smile

God bless Emperor Trump, this is the right decision.

$5 says Shenti won't actually be able to articulate a valid reason for saying this.

trying to bait me into losing a whopping 0 karma? everyone knows my opinion of transgenders by now

I don't, I was gone for a while, ok?
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adjl posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

adjl posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

I'm fine with them serving. I think it's fucking stupid for taxpayers to fund their surgery (or pay for boner pills, and other luxuries).

Sex reassignment surgery isn't a luxury, though, any more so than antidepressants are for depressed people. It's one of the ways in which the (life-threatening) condition is treated, not something entirely elective.

I guess we will agree to disagree. I have asthma (that was life threatening as a kid) but didn't expect a lung transplant.

And transgender people don't expect a free cochlear implant. What does not expecting an unrelated procedure have to do with anything?

Furthermore, the expectation here comes from the military covering medical bills. That's an advertised part of the job, not just some a priori sense of entitlement.

Gender reassignment isn't like curing blindness, deafness, or a kidney transplant though. It can be argued that it's optional in comparison. The person is technically healthy. The entitlement is found in expecting others to transition you because it's not in the same category at all as, say, hearing loss.
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TheCyborgNinja posted...

The person is technically healthy.

So is someone with PTSD, by the metrics you're using.
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darkknight109 posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

The person is technically healthy.

So is someone with PTSD, by the metrics you're using.

No, they're psychologically broken. And guess what? People with PTSD can't function... I know being trans is more serious than not wanting to be fat or wishing you had some other different physical traits, but not all medical problems are created equal.

Ultimately, nobody here is going to change my mind though, and I don't expect anybody to not be a hippie about this here honestly, so there's not much point in me participating any further. We're all just banging our head against a wall.
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TheCyborgNinja posted...

darkknight109 posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

The person is technically healthy.

So is someone with PTSD, by the metrics you're using.

No, they're psychologically broken. And guess what? People with PTSD can't function...

Clearly said by someone who has never served.

Anyways, I'm fine with people expressing their opinions about transgenders in the military up until they bring up the money issue, because the DOD is the last entity that should use budget issues as a reason to not implement something.

Cacciato posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

darkknight109 posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

The person is technically healthy.

So is someone with PTSD, by the metrics you're using.

No, they're psychologically broken. And guess what? People with PTSD can't function...

Clearly said by someone who has never served.

Anyways, I'm fine with people expressing their opinions about transgenders in the military up until they bring up the money issue, because the DOD is the last entity that should use budget issues as a reason to not implement something.

For me it isn't so much "money saved" as "money spent improperly." This isn't the only inappropriate medical expenditure, stuff like Viagra, as I mentioned earlier, shouldn't be covered either.
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TheCyborgNinja posted...

Cacciato posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

darkknight109 posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

The person is technically healthy.

So is someone with PTSD, by the metrics you're using.

No, they're psychologically broken. And guess what? People with PTSD can't function...

Clearly said by someone who has never served.

Anyways, I'm fine with people expressing their opinions about transgenders in the military up until they bring up the money issue, because the DOD is the last entity that should use budget issues as a reason to not implement something.

For me it isn't so much "money saved" as "money spent improperly." This isn't the only inappropriate medical expenditure, stuff like Viagra, as I mentioned earlier, shouldn't be covered either.

I get that, but for me the money excuse is absolute bullshit. I was in the army for five years and the amount of stupid shit the DOD spends money on is fucking disgusting, and that's from what I personally saw without including those embarrassments like the blatant F35 or the recent snafu with the Afghani uniforms.

As far as the transgender issue is concerned, I can see both sides of the issue and I don't consider myself educated enough on it to make a good opinion since I'm biased. I feel like the same people that have issues with transgenders are the same ones that had issues with gay soldiers. And from having served with gay soldiers I can tell you when I was in that it's almost a nonissue. But then people start discussing the med requirements and this and that and I really don't know what to say.

Edit: but I wholeheartedly agree with you on the money spent improperly thing. If the DOD knew what they were doing financially it would save this whole country a lot of trouble. My defense of the transgender issue, though, is that we've wasted so much money on various programs that by comparison this almost a nonissue.

Yeah, the excuse is a flimsy veil for bigotry, I agree with that much. The whole "not allowed to serve in any capacity" is bullshit. It's like the Nazis throwing the Jews under the bus. They cut loose lots of people that would've possibly allowed them to win WWII, but racism was more fun to them.
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I pay 30 dollars a month at most for my hormones.

The pay to the very, very few transgender servicemen and women would be a drop in the bucket. There's no reason to do this.

ZiggiStardust posted...

I don't, I was gone for a while, ok?

i'm not a fan
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Allisonata posted...

I pay 30 dollars a month at most for my hormones.

The pay to the very, very few transgender servicemen and women would be a drop in the bucket. There's no reason to do this.

/Topic
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Yellow posted...

Allisonata posted...

I pay 30 dollars a month at most for my hormones.

The pay to the very, very few transgender servicemen and women would be a drop in the bucket. There's no reason to do this.

/Topic

doesn't matter, trump's orders
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CTRL+F: Viagra

Yup, dead horse is beaten.
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Zangulus posted...

The_Beta_Male posted...

doesn't matter, trump's orders

I would ask if you realize that simply because they're orders doesn't make them lawful and legal...

But we all know you're not good at critical thinking, so I won't bother.

But I don't give a shit in this case. I'm tired of hearing about these fucking people every fucking day.
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The_Beta_Male posted...

Zangulus posted...

The_Beta_Male posted...

doesn't matter, trump's orders

I would ask if you realize that simply because they're orders doesn't make them lawful and legal...

But we all know you're not good at critical thinking, so I won't bother.

But I don't give a shit in this case. I'm tired of hearing about these fucking people every fucking day.

these people...
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The_Beta_Male posted...

trying to bait me into losing a whopping 0 karma? everyone knows my opinion of transgenders by now

I don't really care about your opinion. I'm interested in your rationale. I mean, I'm not THAT interested, because I know there's not much there in which to be interested, but I figure your struggle to articulate something coherent and factually accurate would at least be entertaining. So go on. If you've got a real point to make, make it. If you don't, then sit down and keep quiet like a good little ignorant child. The grown-ups are talking.

OhhhJa posted...

Lol no. It's absolutely a "luxury"

Untreated gender dysphoria has a 38% suicide rate. For many, sex reassignment surgery is the most effective treatment. The most effective treatment for a life-threatening condition should never be considered a luxury. If it is, the term loses all meaning in this context, because all health care is a "luxury" and trans people are just expecting the same "luxuries" that the military's offering everyone else.

TheCyborgNinja posted...

Gender reassignment isn't like curing blindness, deafness, or a kidney transplant though. It can be argued that it's optional in comparison. The person is technically healthy.

Again, 38% suicide rate. Not all illness is physical, and you don't have to be physically ill for your life to be in danger from a disorder.

TheCyborgNinja posted...

The entitlement is found in expecting others to transition you because it's not in the same category at all as, say, hearing loss.

The actual point I was making with that analogy is that lung transplants have nothing to do with asthma. Asthma's an autoimmune disease that targets the bronchi and trachea; replacing lungs isn't going to do anything to fix it. Instead, asthma's treated with steroids and other anti-inflammatory drugs that relax the bronchial muscles and reduce the inflammation. If you had life-threatening asthma, you did receive these treatments, and that's a perfectly reasonable thing to expect because they were necessary to save your life. Expecting life-saving medical treatment to be covered by an organization that has promised to cover medical costs is far from feeling entitled. It's just holding them to their word.

TheCyborgNinja posted...

Ultimately, nobody here is going to change my mind though, and I don't expect anybody to not be a hippie about this here honestly, so there's not much point in me participating any further. We're all just banging our head against a wall.

That's a terrible attitude to take in any argument. If your only opposition here were "no you're wrong!", sure, it'd be fine to accept that there was no point in arguing and walk away, but that's not what's happening. You've got people bringing up facts and clarifying your misconceptions, and rather than trying to refute these points, you're openly choosing to refuse to see reason. That's not good. I'm more than happy to discuss my position here in detail, and to listen to what you're basing your position on so we can have a proper argument, but that's not something that can happen unless you're willing to actually argue (and that's real arguing, not the Internet version of "arguing" that just consists of stating your point increasingly passionately with no changes until people get bored and walk away). I'm banging my head against a wall, yes, but you can choose not to be a wall.
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adjl posted...

Untreated gender dysphoria has a 38% suicide rate. For many, sex reassignment surgery is the most effective treatment. The most effective treatment for a life-threatening condition should never be considered a luxury. If it is, the term loses all meaning in this context, because all health care is a "luxury" and trans people are just expecting the same "luxuries" that the military's offering everyone else.

I take it you're aware of the high suicide rate among post operation transgender people as well?

ZiggiStardust posted...

"After consultation with my generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States government will not accept or allow transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. military,” Mr. Trump wrote. “Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail.

So, I'm no Trump supporter by any means. In fact, I think he's pretty much a piece of shit. But in this case I think he has a point. I think maybe he just should have worded it differently.

The few trans friends I have pay a stupid amount of money for medical upkeep after their transitioning, plus the amount they pay for medication is crazy. Both of them have good jobs, and they say it's worth the cost, so if they can afford it, more power to them, ok?

But looking to the gov't to take care of those costs is asking too much. Hell, most normal people with medical issues are released from service because it's more of a financial and physical burden than the military should have to handle, ok?

Whenever I saw the trump quote, I never saw it with "medical costs" and thought he just wanted to make a scene with SJW/make his followers happy. It makes so much more sense now, and I support it.

adjl posted...

I don't really care about your opinion. I'm interested in your rationale. I mean, I'm not THAT interested, because I know there's not much there in which to be interested, but I figure your struggle to articulate something coherent and factually accurate would at least be entertaining. So go on. If you've got a real point to make, make it. If you don't, then sit down and keep quiet like a good little ignorant child. The grown-ups are talking..

every time i try to explain why i'm not a fan of transgenders i get modded and lose 0 karma b/c i didn't actually break any rules but the mods figure it's just easier in the long run to delete the post and move on; they don't want the controversy and i guess i can't blame them. either way though it's pointless

it's like this, okay: i'm big on the truth and honesty--these people are going around trying to convince the world that they're something they can never literally be and that's my biggest issue with it. It's not my ONLY issue with it, but it's the one at the very top that all the other issues branch from. The second thing that pisses me off isn't transgender people themselves, but rather their supporters that lie to the fucking moon to protect the feelings of trans people, yet couldn't give a flying fuck about the feelings of anyone else because trans people are the hot topic right now and they get free cool points and friends if they fit in better with the crowd. That's the second reason why this shit triggers me so much. People are fucking fake. I could go on but since there's a chance it'll just be deleted and a MASSIVE 0 karma removed from my infinite pool of karma, I'll just leave it at that.

But it's kind of funny, though--my biggest issues with trans people isn't really even the people themselves; it's the lies and the non trans people that won't shut the fuck up. i'm human, too, i want other humans to be happy and feel good but not if it means spreading untruths and then attacking anyone that disagrees with them

Zangulus posted...

Your desire to shove your head up your ass to prevent hearing about them does not mean it's a legal and lawful command, but I mean your head's so full of shit after this much time up there, I guess you can't figure that out.

Oh, look, I don't agree with you so here come the ad hominems and passive aggressiveness. THIS is why so many people like me can't take you guys seriously; you can't take criticism for shit and try to just overwhelm people with bullying tactics to make them submit.

But you will not do any of that shit to me. None of you can do a fucking thing to me and none of you will make me submit to shit. Please fucking try. I could give a fuck what you think of me or if my views hurt your little feelings. Fucking do something.
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The_Beta_Male posted...

every time i try to explain why i'm not a fan of transgenders i get modded

That's nice, but it's got nothing to do with what I asked. Again, I don't care about your opinion. I'm inviting you to share your reasoning for thinking this ban is a good idea (or rather, sarcastically implying you don't actually have any reasoning, but I'm a big enough man to accept being proven wrong, if you can).

_AdjI_ posted...

That's nice, but it's got nothing to do with what I asked. Again, I don't care about your opinion. I'm inviting you to share your reasoning for thinking this ban is a good idea (or rather, sarcastically implying you don't actually have any reasoning, but I'm a big enough man to accept being proven wrong, if you can).

oh my bad, you just have this really unique way of typing that disguises the point behind unnecessary attempts to appear intelligent

All right, why I think the ban is a good idea? Because I'm not a fan of those people. Okay? But if I had to give a proper reason, it's because all the hormone therapy, medication and other bullshit has NO FUCKING PLACE IN AN ARMY FIGHTING IN A WAR. I cannot fucking believe this is a debate; there's literally no argument. They are not fit for battle with all that shit and it could potentially become a huge distraction and annoyance for the regular soldiers.

But mostly I just don't like them, and I'm proud to admit that.

Zangulus posted...

Do any of what to you? I haven't said I'd do anything to you... at all. Like are you such a meat head you can't even read properly?

You're the one with absolutely no leg to stand on in your base argument and when soundly refuted you resorted to just spouting off about frequency like that matters.

Yeah. You really do have shit for brains and no one around here can fix that.

still the strongest on this board tho bro what's good
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But you've never fought in a war, so how would you know?

The_Beta_Male posted...

My reasons are that I'm a scumbag.

Fixed that for you
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The_Beta_Male posted...

oh my bad, you just have this really unique way of typing that disguises the point behind unnecessary attempts to appear intelligent

adjl posted...

$5 says Shenti won't actually be able to articulate a valid reason for saying this.

I mean, that doesn't seem very disguised to me, but... *shrug*. You do you, my friend.

The_Beta_Male posted...

All right, why I think the ban is a good idea? Because I'm not a fan of those people. Okay?

That's not a reason to consider it a good idea. That just means you like it. That's a very important distinction that you really should learn to make if you wish to function in civilized society.

The_Beta_Male posted...

But if I had to give a proper reason, it's because all the hormone therapy, medication and other bulls*** has NO f***ING PLACE IN AN ARMY FIGHTING IN A WAR. I cannot f***ing believe this is a debate; there's literally no argument. They are not fit for battle with all that s*** and it could potentially become a huge distraction and annoyance for the regular soldiers.

Plenty of other soldiers are on medication, though. Plenty of other soldiers are receiving treatment for psychological disorders, too. The military already has physical and mental health standards in place to ensure soldiers are fit for duty, which completely covers those concerns. For that purpose, this ban is entirely redundant.

Would you like another shot at coming up with a valid reason, or is that the best you can muster?

chaosbowser posted...

Fixed that for you

lol buddy i couldn't possibly give a fuck what you think even if i wanted to. if you actually had a spine you would do something about your hatred of my views; instead you opt to passive-aggressively throw little quips like that one

I'd respect you more if you had some fight in you.

Zangulus posted...

Well, we both know that's bullshit. Lol. Not that you'll ever admit it.

what are u delusional? who has posted a video of them out-benching me on this board? who ELSE has even posted a bench video at all?

Who has a public facebook with shirtless pictures displaying their physical attributes, like me? none

you need to control your emotions, little man; i'm way out of your league

_AdjI_ posted...

[Adjl post]

oh you
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The_Beta_Male posted...

what are u delusional? who has posted a video of them out-benching me on this board? who ELSE has even posted a bench video at all?

Who has a public facebook with shirtless pictures displaying their physical attributes, like me? none

I still find it absolutely hilarious every time you post this, like you think it genuinely matters or that anyone else cares.
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Holy shit, when the hell did shenti become so reasonable? What happened that year I was gone??
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The_Beta_Male posted...

oh my bad, you just have this really unique way of typing that disguises the point behind unnecessary attempts to appear intelligent

This line was amusing as hell.

Hang on, does Trump actually have any legal jurisdiction to redefine military code?

Or is this just blowing smoke or something?