Current Events > GOP plan right now: 'Skinny repeal,' just axing the mandates from the ACA

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/25/16025332/senate-health-care-bill-individual-mandate-hail-mary

Sources suggest that Senate Republicans are weighing a last-ditch idea to pass some kind of health care bill in the coming days: a narrowly focused Obamacare repeal bill. A “skinny repeal” measure could eliminate the law’s hated individual mandate to buy insurance, perhaps some of its taxes on the health care industry, and little else.

That policy could prove extremely disruptive to the individual insurance markets, where people buy coverage if they don’t get it through their employers or the government, if it became law. Health insurance works as a business only if as many healthy people buy insurance as possible to offset the costs of paying for sick people’s health care. Getting rid of the Obamacare requirement that people buy health insurance or face a penalty could lead healthy people to avoid insurance altogether.

Politically, “skinny repeal” could be the end game, according to three health care lobbyists. It’s a plan with great peril — putting the individual insurance market at risk of spinning into a death spiral if Senate and House lawmakers can’t reach an agreement on a final piece of legislation.

As deep divisions persist within the Senate Republican conference, it may be the GOP’s last remaining chance to keep even a small chunk of its health care promises alive.

If senators find 50 votes to start debate on health care on Tuesday, they are expected to take up both a clean bill to partially repeal Obamacare’s spending and all of its taxes as well as the repeal-and-replace legislation they’ve been working on for months.

Neither bill appears able to pass; both lack the support of 50 of the 52 Senate Republicans. Senate leaders have started promising reluctant senators that if they pass a bill, any bill, they will go into negotiations with the House and fix the legislation there.

In order to get to conference, though, leadership needs a bill that can get 50 votes. Eliminating the penalty for Obamacare’s individual mandate — possibly along with its employer mandate and some of its taxes on the health care industry — might be the only plan that can win such broad support within the Republican conference.

Three lobbyists told Vox that this was the path forward being charted by Senate leadership. One lobbyist said the bill could be narrowed to the “lowest common denominator product.”

That would fit with Senate leadership’s emphasis to its members on moving the health care bill to conference negotiations with the House at any cost.

“The whole emphasis is we're trying to get something to go to conference committee with,” a Senate Republican aide said on Tuesday. “I don't know if it's the main plan. But we have to get something done."

Some people have pointed out that this is basically what Obama ran on in the 08 Democratic Primaries, where he attacked Clinton for her insistence on a mandate
http://www.politico.com/pdf/PPM44_080130_nd_obama_hrc_healthcare_plan_forces_health_insurance2.pdf
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bump
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Sounds like they still can't do anything to change it.

Who knew healthcare was complicated?
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Well at least it is a start to getting rid of this disaster. I definitely hate the tax penalty on the individual.
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https://www.c-span.org/video/?431793-101/us-senate-take-procedural-vote-advance-health-care-bill
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

Well at least it is a start to getting rid of this disaster. I definitely hate the tax penalty on the individual.

It isn't a start though. The only way out is single payer which the GOP is never going to put forth. And that aside it would crush the health insurance companies, which would put people out of the job. Of course, since said companies have been replacing American workers with robots and Indians that might not be much of a factor anymore.
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There isn't any way out that won't lead to political suicide.
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Which is why all these bills are a total bust. It's really up to the insurance companies to fix these problems they have made, otherwise they will fail.
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Seems like the ACA was a bad idea from the get-go when you say it like that. It makes it impossible to fix without doing something dangerous.
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Insurance companies can't really fix it though with all these regulations tying then down. Having all these mandates and hoops for them to jump through is just going to make them exit the market. That is why a straight repeal is needed. Let the market naturally fix itself without all the regulations distorting it.
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It was the agreed upon half measure rather than just going straight to single payer. Personally I thought it was an incredible stroke of genius by the Democrats, it basically forces single payer on us no matter what big pharma and big insurance tries.
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

Insurance companies can't really fix it though with all these regulations tying then down. Having all these mandates and hoops for them to jump through is just going to make them exit the market. That is why a straight repeal is needed. Let the market naturally fix itself without all the regulations distorting it.

No because insurance will go back to denying coverage based off of prexisting conditions and introducing lifetime max benefits.

You need to deal with insurance companies and hospitals to reduce their costs and charging for treatment

P4wn4g3 posted...

it basically forces single payer on us no matter what big pharma and big insurance tries.

huh?
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

Insurance companies can't really fix it though with all these regulations tying then down. Having all these mandates and hoops for them to jump through is just going to make them exit the market. That is why a straight repeal is needed. Let the market naturally fix itself without all the regulations distorting it.

A straight repeal is only going to damage the market further at this point, which is why they can't do that. The companies bought into Obamacare 100%, how else would it have passed? They expected more of a profit from it. I personally don't pity the assholes that have been taking advantage of the disabled for half a century after they get the short end of the stick.
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They are just pulling shit out of their ass as they go.
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Balrog0 posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

it basically forces single payer on us no matter what big pharma and big insurance tries.

huh?

It's the only end game here. Or at least the likely one.
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I think the genius thing the Democrats did was set up the Republicans to fail with this disasterous bill when they try to clean it up. There isn't a way for Republicans to clean up the Democrats' mess without taking heat for it.

Insurance is meant to be purchased before you need it. You don't go to your car insurance agent and say you need insurance and want to file a claim after getting into accident.
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

Insurance companies can't really fix it though with all these regulations tying then down. Having all these mandates and hoops for them to jump through is just going to make them exit the market. That is why a straight repeal is needed. Let the market naturally fix itself without all the regulations distorting it.

A straight repeal won't fix anything. The problem is Doctors are performing entirely unnecessary procedures and overcharging for all those procedures.

A while back I got an MRI and gave the results to the doctor who requested it and was like "looks good" and I said "The MRI guys say they want me to go back for a second one because the first scan was not clear." and the doctor was like "yeah, don't do that. this scan is good."

The MRI was a $4000 procedure at the time.
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

I think the genius thing the Democrats did was set up the Republicans to fail with this disasterous bill when they try to clean it up. There isn't a way for Republicans to clean up the Democrats' mess without taking heat for it.

Insurance is meant to be purchased before you need it. You don't go to your car insurance agent and say you need insurance and want to file a claim after getting into accident.

So your advice to a country that says we have a right to life (liberty and the pursuit of happiness) is to let people die if they have prexisting condition because they cannot afford treatment?

They have the option to use bankruptcy to get the treatment they need.
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

They have the option to use bankruptcy to get the treatment they need.

So put their family in medical debt and many will opt not for treatment to save their families.

I hate that people dance around it. If you believe preexisting conditions should not be covered be upfront and a man about it and say "yes I am fine with others dying by not affording treatment because it would reduce costs for myself and I hope I don't get a bad sickness" don't dance around it.

People are more likely to get sick and injured than get into a car accident, which is why car insurance is a more sustainable business than health insurance. Car insurance is a low risk high reward business model while health insurance is basically the total opposite.
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CruelBuffalo posted...

DragonGirlYuki posted...

They have the option to use bankruptcy to get the treatment they need.

So put their family in medical debt and many will opt not for treatment to save their families.

I hate that people dance around it. If you believe preexisting conditions should not be covered be upfront and a man about it and say "yes I am fine with others dying by not affording treatment because it would reduce costs for myself and I hope I don't get a bad sickness" don't dance around it.

Honestly, I don't get why more people against it don't just upfront say this. They're already implicitly supporting people dying so that they don't have to when they support any military campaigns, human medical testing, as well as any "pull out and let them kill each other" sentiments.
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

I think the genius thing the Democrats did was set up the Republicans to fail with this disasterous bill when they try to clean it up. There isn't a way for Republicans to clean up the Democrats' mess without taking heat for it.

Insurance is meant to be purchased before you need it. You don't go to your car insurance agent and say you need insurance and want to file a claim after getting into accident.

So anybody who is born with any medical conditions can't get coverage, anybody who ages out of plan is screwed, anyone who wants to change companies is screwed... And that's just for beginners
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I love how the GOP's health plan is literally just two options. So simple and concise you either a): die, or b): go bankrupt.

So nice of them to get rid of all that red tape making our health decisions so complicated.
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Bankruptcy gets rid of medical debt. It is considered unsecured.

Preexisting conditions should not be covered at the artificially low premium levels. That just destroys the market.

Do you believe poor drivers should pay the same insurance rates as good drivers?
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

Bankruptcy gets rid of medical debt. It is considered unsecured.

Preexisting conditions should not be covered at the artificially low premium levels. That just destroys the market.

Do you believe poor drivers should pay the same insurance rates as good drivers?

I don't believe people are cars and we can still work while sick. There's also lifetime medical care cost caps insurance companies would bring back away. You're still dancing around it btw.

DragonGirlYuki posted...

This is some low grade trolling, even compared to CE's usual crop.
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

Preexisting conditions should not be covered at the artificially low premium levels. That just destroys the market.

it depends on what you're talking about

covering substance abuse and mental health treatment probably contributes 1% or so to your premiums. Maternity care is a similarly small amount.

Prescription drug coverage, on the other hand, is a significant cost driver even for people who don't need them.

Funnily enough, most people want their insurance to cover prescription drugs, though. It is very unpopular to take that away.
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

I love how the GOP's health plan is literally just two options. So simple and concise you either a): die, or b): go bankrupt.

So nice of them to get rid of all that red tape making our health decisions so complicated.

They like it when you do the latter first, of course.
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

Bankruptcy gets rid of medical debt. It is considered unsecured.

Preexisting conditions should not be covered at the artificially low premium levels. That just destroys the market.

Do you believe poor drivers should pay the same insurance rates as good drivers?

So if your child was born with a medical condition thst required life saving/sustaining operations and drugs and you couldn't afford it, you'd just say "oh well guess we will have to try again honey, this one is a genetic dud"
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whitewimmin posted...

Some people have pointed out that this is basically what Obama ran on in the 08 Democratic Primaries, where he attacked Clinton for her insistence on a mandate

obama ran on a public option and the house bill (and original senate bill) had a public option which resolved that issue

anyone comparing this to his campaign plan is a fool
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I would probably not bring a child to term if I knew it would live a life of suffering from a birth condition.
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

I would probably not bring a child to term if I knew it would live a life of suffering from a birth condition.

Well the government can take that option away from you too.
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Restricting abortion is something I disagree with strongly from the Republicans and their Christian right nuts.
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The mandate was what made the ACA plausible in the first place. You NEED to have healthy young people paying into the system so that those who need the care can afford it.

that's the whole reason behind insurance.
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ZMythos posted...

The mandate was what made the ACA plausible in the first place. You NEED to have healthy young people paying into the system so that those who need the care can afford it.

that's the whole reason behind insurance.

And then young people say fuck you. The reason behind insurance is to save you in a catastrophe. This equating healthcare to health insurance is ridiculous and the reason why healthcare costs are so fucking high for those who don't have insurance.
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The individual mandate is effectively a tax or wealth transfer from the young to the old and we are getting nothing in return. Millennials are already the poorest generation from crippling student debt and a poor job market. We don't need to be made poorer.
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

The individual mandate is effectively a tax or wealth transfer from the young to the old and we are getting nothing in return. Millennials are already the poorest generation from crippling student debt and a poor job market. We don't need to be made poorer.

I've seen several stories of fresh graduates who are new to the job market who were grateful for the ACA providing them a health care option after college.
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Single payer is the only answer

Old people need to own up for the decisions they made and not rely on broke Millennials to bail them out.
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ThePrinceFish posted...

And then young people say fuck you. The reason behind insurance is to save you in a catastrophe. This equating healthcare to health insurance is ridiculous and the reason why healthcare costs are so fucking high for those who don't have insurance.

but one of the main drivers of rising health care costs is exactly the uncompensated care that happens in hospitals and community clinics because people don't have insurance
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Solid Sonic posted...

I've seen several stories of fresh graduates who are new to the job market who were grateful for the ACA providing them a health care option after college.

Yeah; the ACA's provision allowing those under 26 to stay on their parents' insurance is why I have health insurance.
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Antifar posted...

Solid Sonic posted...

I've seen several stories of fresh graduates who are new to the job market who were grateful for the ACA providing them a health care option after college.

Yeah; the ACA's provision allowing those under 26 to stay on their parents' insurance is why I have health insurance.

Well, I don't think the Republicans want to get rid of that part.
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also, insurance coverage that only covers catastrophic events is like the least fiscally conservative thing ever, assuming you mean we should offer them on some kind of publically subsidized basis
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This is why you get a mess when you pass new entitlements. If a law is passed requiring me to pay your bills, you'll scream bloody murder if there is any threat of that being reversed. The government has been so entrenched in healthcare for so long (since way before Obamacare) that it's hard for most people to imagine a free market alternative unless they understood how the government drives up costs in the first place.
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tennisdude818 posted...

This is why you get a mess when you pass new entitlements. If a law is passed requiring me to pay your bills, you'll scream bloody murder if there is any threat of that being reversed. The government has been so entrenched in healthcare for so long (since way before Obamacare) that it's hard for most people to imagine a free market alternative unless they understood how the government drives up costs in the first place.

please, educate us
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

Well at least it is a start to getting rid of this disaster. I definitely hate the tax penalty on the individual.

It would be different if the IRS also gave people something extra for having health insurance.
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