Board 8 > Anime & Manga Discussion Topic 171: Are anime games in anime photorealistic?

(+) Yeah! (+)

The fourth week adds last seasons shows, which includes; My Hero Academia, Sakura Quest, and Re:Creators.

Right now MHA is the best show that's airing by fairly large margin. Granted it's had a huge head start but imo it has not had a bad episode for its entire run. It's not even like any show is actually bad again. I mean I guess having an awful episode like Youkai did could kill you though.

Like still every show from 24 up is imo at least average, and every show from 20 up is probably good and a lot of those shows near the bottom have huge potential upside. I don't expect all (or most) of them to actually get there. Bad shows typically don't get better, but there's no pure trash in this list.
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Attack on Titan S2 beated. That was phenomenal. Pacing and action so much better than season 1, and made interesting characters out of Berthold and Ymir which where both very minor in the first season. Loved how casually they did the big reveal. Also love Mikasa. Death stare overload was great.

Time for Saekano S2. I noticed it sold even better than S1 so that's good news. Need more Utaha.
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http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2017/08/01-1/progress-mentioned-on-new-mob-psycho-100-anime

more Mob Psycho
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Kakegurui is coming to Netflix in 2018

gj Netflix
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Fucking christ.

Well, I give up. Netflix has driven me back to piracy.

It's like we're fuckin' Canadians or something.
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man

that blows
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Like...

I thought we were done with this shit, but like my sig says...

We had a really good thing going and then Netflix and Amazon decided to place their inept hands in the pie and are fucking everything up. Amazon with it's awful entry barrier, Netflix with its.....what the fuck are they even doing? What the actual fuck?

These shows are reaching disgustingly fewer people than they would on Crunchy or Funi. We're talking active harm to the western industry.

I don't think we have anyone here who would say so, but if you defend this shit then fuck right off.
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Oh hey by the time I feel like watching it Netflix will have it

Ltm bringing the market analytics there.

No but for real, when all of the most powerful media streaming entities enter the same game around the same time, things will get better in a hurry for us.

Hoping these big power plays force amazon to drop the secondary entry barrier and then I'm gold.
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You're totally fine with Netflix holding series hostage?

I barely care about the Amazon factor here, Netflix is indefensible in this.
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....sure?

I don't even think Netflix's current anime model is permanent, but I think the long term benefits of having all these big money players involved will be pretty good.

Even when Crunchyroll had everything I couldn't watch them all as it aired. I have both services, I don't mind.
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That's just crazy to me. I don't pay a ton of attention all the time so sorry for the dumb question, but do you just not watch anime as it airs?

You mention long term benefits, but what are you hoping to gain here? Before these two stirred the boat, every show in every season was getting a simulcasts with very rare exception, for cheaper than either of the other services. Was there something missing you wanted? All I'm seeing is a Fate show I can't watch while it's airing, and thus will find it difficult to care about when it releases 6 months later to no applause. Every one of these Amazon shows would have been on Crunchy or FUNi if Amazon hadn't doled out the cash to buy exclusivity for an inferior service (Amazon's player and subs suck).
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Also, I take particular insterest in the statement "I have both services, I don't care". The issue isn't that. I would not give a shit if Netflix had these shows and were airing them, but they aren't. Those were anticipated shows that are now being held back like a video game awaiting localization, for no god damn good reason other than Netflix being completely unaware that their simulrelease seasons work because that's when the the shows come out period, and not just because people like to binge.
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Obviously the know the real fans that will watch it with whatever method they can
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NowItsAngeTime posted...

Obviously the know the real fans that will watch it with whatever method they can

You mean piracy?
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NowItsAngeTime posted...

Obviously the know the real fans that will watch it with whatever method they can

Gotta love the Canada effect. We want to pay you to watch Game of Thrones, but we can't! A torrenting we will go!
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Uuuuuh, sure I watch some shows as they air, in fact some of these shows....are not anime

gasp

I don't have to watch 20 anime series as they air, especially when a bunch of them aren't any good. If I'm gonna pirate, I'd rather pirate Shintamachi Rocket or Hanzawa Naoki which blow your average anime series out of the water.

Why the fuck should I bitch about a series that I won't care about in 6 months? If the series is good, then it'll still be good in 6 months.

You think I pay a lot of money to see every hot new movie that's in theatres? Like....no? If the movie's good, I'll still watch it months later....sometimes on Netflix or Amazon!
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OK well that's....something.

You sure acted like you had a real reason to defend this that wasn't "I don't care"!
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I'm gonna take seriously the guy who is acting like this is a matter of life and death.

I don't even know if I'm arguing with LtM, or if I'm arguing with the parroted opinions of some podcast.
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LapisLazuli posted...

OK well that's....something.

You sure acted like you had a real reason to defend this that wasn't "I don't care"!

brother you (specifically you) could say the sky is blue and voltch would argue about it
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I knew that, but be seemed like he had a point he wanted to make with that "healthy for the industry" talk!

He's been OK for quite a few months now so I thought he had put that attitude behind him.
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voltch posted...

I'm gonna take seriously the guy who is acting like this is a matter of life and death.

I don't even know if I'm arguing with LtM, or if I'm arguing with the parroted opinions of some podcast.

Like bruh this is an Ulti post.
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Yes, LtM, you are John McClane and Fate is your Waifu, who you will try to rescue from Hans Netflix.

Not realising, that when multiple companies with money are competing for exclusive services, it means they are....funding studios that could use that money!

That money see, gets turned into new shows! Which then get distributed on the platforms that paid for this product.

If two big companies known for producing original content on their platform outsource to the people with the skills to create this content they want, those people receive money they wouldn't have before!

This adds something called financial security. Will it be a blanket lifeline for everyone?

No, because anime is still a business, where you pay for what your research shows will be worth having.

This also doesn't prevent companies receiving those monies....from mismanaging it.

Licensing anime to a platform that 100m subscribers is actually....not a bad thing. If even just 400k subscribers watch this show on a 6 month delay, that's still potentially 400k extra fans watching on a paid service.

Let's take a look at Nyaa, since it came back up. I see Fate/Apocrypha got 35k downloads, I'm sure once you add all the various DDLs and streams the number gets a good deal higher. But even if just 200k watch each ep of Fate, that's not actually a bad number.

In 2-3 years, if the anime shows perform well, maybe Netflix and Amazon will decide to put more money into these projects. Which could lead to higher production quality. Anime is very cheap to produce compared to their other major projects.
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I'm just waiting for LtM to have a meltdown when the next few Shaft shows are Netflix exclusive with a 6 month delay

Thanks for actually making a real response and not garbage like your previous post, though your pointless and petty personal insults can still be cut if you really want to be taken seriously. It's not gonna hurt your brand to not be pissy at me.

How much money do you think they're giving these studios and why do you think they're throwing STAFF at it?

We already have proof that this doesn't work. Nobody gave a fuck when LWA came out on Netflix. Everyone who was gonna watch that show pirated it.

To me, the communal experience is a huge part of watching a show. I might NEVER watch LWA now because I'm not watching it as it's airing, I'm n getting the discussion threads or the reactions. I watch maybe 3 or 4 anime a year that isn't actively airing tops, and I've dropped shows with a couple episodes left because I fell behind and missed the boat. Is that everyone? No, clearly not you. But a ton of people are like this, that want the active experience. A show has to be an actual masterpiece for me to watch it late and still enjoy it.

I'm DLing Fate now because I desperately want to watch it, and no, I WON'T still want to watch it in six months. My friends at Trivia Night are watching it now. My friends n Discord are watching it now. If I want to be a part of discussion for it, it's now or bust. Netflix doesn't get that.

And you still haven't given a reason for WHY the delay is a necessary thing. Who benefits from Kakegurui releasing in 2018?
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swordz9 posted...

I'm just waiting for LtM to have a meltdown when the next few Shaft shows are Netflix exclusive with a 6 month delay

I mean they've turned me into a criminal again so the limit has already been reached. I can't get more annoyed now that I'm just gonna steal.
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And on that note, you state that those piracy numbers are noticeable but not a dealbreaker, but how many of those people weren't pirating before? How many more will turn to piracy when Netflix continues to do this? It only takes one anticipated show being stolen away to turn someone. And then when they realize how easy it is and just decide to hold onto their $8, who loses? Not Netflix, they have Netflix anyways! No, people will stop paying Crunchy and Funi. They're already pirating anyways, why not save a couple bucks?

Honestly, with how nonsensical the delayed releases are, this might actually BE Netflix's plan in the long run!
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If everything is centralised around crunchyroll and they have no competition, it's not that great for anime production houses and groups.

If Netflix and amazon are bidders in this race, then they are selling themselves to the anime industry. These bids can include, we will commission this amount of work!

This means crunchy can either bid against them, which means better offers for anime groups, or target lesser known, but perhaps still solid titles.

This is still fairly new, so let's see what happened in a more developed industry.

The French manga industry

In this industry you don't have one, but many companies publishing manga all competing against each other.

This has led to a massive spike in the number of officially localised mangas and dvds. The French public now has access to so many manga that can only be found through fan scans in English. This is a good thing for French fans who get to buy so many titles and the Japanese publishing houses.

I mean if Japan is unable to sell its product overseas and has to rely on just the domestic market, how does that work out for everyone?
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Can you actually point towards an indication that the previous system wasn't working and that there was an issue with them being the primary contendors in the race? All I'm seeing are hypotheticals. More anime was being bought every season. FUNimation just paid to fund the creation of a new anime last year, and has another one lined up. Competing services that were tanking failed because they were inferior. Netflix and Amazon are ALSO offering inferior services in this subcategory, but will survive because they're existing powerhouses. Making them the....COMCAST of the anime streaming industry right now, really.

And....again....you have repeatedly dodged my inquiry as to what the Netflix delay provides to the consumer or even them. Is this something you acknowledge is nonsensical and are just gonna agree?
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I can sorta see where LtM is coming from. Anime is one of those "in the moment" things for a lot of people the way watching a live action show and wanting to talk about it weekly with people is. If you have to wait 6 months after it has aired you lose out on the discussion because odds are everybody else pirated it so they could watch it weekly when it wasn't "old news". There's way more discussion when it's airing than when it's been over for a while. Like if I were to watch Fate/Zero there likely wouldn't be too much talk here about it compared to if I watched it while it was brand new

Let's say by some miracle you got people talking about Fate/Zero after saying you started watching it now. Great!

Except few if any of them will be talking to you. They'll be talking or arguing with eachother in giant black spoilerblocks. Rather than finding F/Z discussion, you have instead been driven from the topic altogether to avoid spoilers.
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Ltm stop making the baseless assumption your viewing habits are the only ones.

All your credibility goes flying out the window with that.

Anime is a business. If the data they have shows that releasing content in batches works, they will do this. If it doesn't they will change.

Large enterprises adapt to the market.

If anime is a failure for Netflix, they will drop it and we will go back to a seller's market. This will allow crunchyroll to regain the leverage they have lost.
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OK but the consumer is suffering right now. I take offense to the idea of saying "it sucks, but will probably get better" when it didn't suck before and now were regressing for theoretical benefits that can't even be pinned down.

voltch posted...

Ltm stop making the baseless assumption your viewing habits are the only ones.

All your credibility goes flying out the window with that.

LapisLazuli posted...

Is that everyone? No

???
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Netflix is not really an "anime" platform. Although it is annoying that they get don't air their shows until after it's over for no reason at all (although I guess it's due to licensing reasons). Same with like Hulu and other services. Like no service is likely to compete with crunchy roll in terms of depth of their content and ultimately prices for just anime.

What is messed up is that those providers (Amazon, Netflix, Hulu, etc) all seem to get one or two pretty good shows, at times the best shows of the entire season (like OPM, Sindonia, Re:Creators, LWA, etc). So like for some one like me it might be worth it to subscribe to all of them (I don't but I do subscribe to more than 1). But like the cost of entry for amazon is already very high for much less then what you get from like funi and crunchyroll.

The problem is that unlike something like a game console you can kind of project what games are going to come out based on who made the system. You have shows on like HBO, showtime, etc that are ongoing for several seasons so even if you miss a season you can catch up quickly if you want to.

But with anime a lot of it lasts for a season or two. We have no indication of which service is going to get which anime. So services with like max value on season could change the next. Like most people with netflix dont have it for anime, so we can kind of discount it. But lets say like people are going to rotate crunchy roll, amazon, and i guess funi or something every 3 months... I don't really see how that is benefiting anyone and only causing people who actually want to watch shows feel even more annoyed.
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Also, I agree with the reasoning that anime is very much a "talk about it as it's airing" type thing. Of course I watch older shows when I can (although they are normally like classics I've yet to see). I'm often surprised how much talk dies down for a show as soon as it finishes airing.
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Annoyance that inevitably leads to piracy and zero winners. There is no scenario in which Netflix builds up a successful anime streaming service and continues the delayed of 3 to 6 months after a series' completion. Instead, an Amazon license will become the guiding light for the return of the fansubbing groups. For god's sake, UTW is on Apocrypha.

Voltch, as much as you claim I'm ignoring other viewpoints, you sure are acting blind to the fact that the entire modern anime streaming industry is built around simulcasting, which is DIRECTLY responsible for the massive decrease in piracy. Removing the simulcast is killing the entire point of it all.
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KokoroAkechi posted...

Also, I agree with the reasoning that anime is very much a "talk about it as it's airing" type thing. Of course I watch older shows when I can (although they are normally like classics I've yet to see). I'm often surprised how much talk dies down for a show as soon as it finishes airing.

Re:Zero remains a favorite for me, but a week after it was over and dead silence. I can't imagine starting to that show now and how inferior that experience would be.
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Well of course a competing service will try to get the best shows it can.

That's what I would do.

But hey you know what centralised absolutely everything in the UK?

Sky! And when they became the only dog in town, subscription prices went through the roof.

Do I want the same thing to happen to anime? Nope.

I pay for crunchyroll to get the library, I pay for Netflix to get a nice selection of British shows and films, anime is a bonus and I do watch it at times through there
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This scenario where Crunchyroll hikes its prices just seems so bizarre to be worried about. Crunchyroll streams anime. Sky is a television provider. One is a major entertainment staple that barely any homes go without. One is a niche with a sensitive and tight nit market and community. They aren't equivilants.

Amazon has a history of raising its prices. Netflix has a history of constantly removing content from its backlog. These are the companies with the troubled anti-consumer histories, not Crunchyroll.
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Let me propose a very direct and realistic scenario based on past and current Netflix history that has already happened dozens of times. This isn't truly a hypothetical, more of an....assumed inevitability.

Fate Apocrypha releases in November of 2017.

June 2019, Netflix removes it from their service. Fate/Apocrypha no longer exists in a legal streaming format. Fate/Apocrypha is gone until it returns to netflix randomly in 2021.

This happens to multiple shows and movies on Netflix every month.
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Amazon = Entry price is too high. You need prime and after that you spend 5 more bucks.
Netflix = Airs things after they finish.

Both of these imo are pretty unacceptable. Amazon does not have the library to justify being like double the cost of crunchyroll and a lot of people are not going to wait 3 to 6 months to watch something on netflix after everyone else has talked and moved on with it.

At this point amazon and netflix are not actually competing in the anime streaming space. They are just causing fans to be annoyed.
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There it is.

You want Anime to stay niche.

We currently have one of the first attempts to make anime a little more mainstream via streaming services on a global scale and you reject it.

You just don't want the market to expand.

When you praise the previous model so much because of its status as something smaller in scale, you just fear actual growth.
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This is the most we've ever seen eye to eye, Koko.
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voltch posted...

There it is.

You want Anime to stay niche.

Oh my god. Can you not.
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netflix needs more anime if they want to compete but i'm pretty happy if they do. crunchy and funi/sony cannot, should not, be the market. there's nothing wrong with netflix, that's just a different way to view a show for many. the model has proven to work with comic book adaptations, of which have been successful in both binge watching batches (Netflix) and the old way (weekly broadcast television) in recent years. both manage to have discussion at that one moment as well as random discussions pop up afterwards. if there's room for that space in every other weekly television platform, there's room for that with anime too. it may not match the viewing habits of someone who watches 10+ shows a week but it damn sure matches the viewing habits of a bunch of people who don't watch a show until the season ends.

since it's netflix we also don't need to worry about censors on broadcast vs BD - it'd just be at the uncensored level. which is yet another time when we're like "well guess i gotta wait for the BD if i want to see this properly."

go netflix.
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Netflix doing anime is good in concept. But the execution with the aforementioned delay and inevitable removal, is utter garbage. In conclusion, fuck netflix.

Amazon is fine, if on the expensive side.
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Honestly anything airing on tv that isn't already finished should be simulcast. It's one thing if it's a Netflix original they add all at once, but anything airing on tv that is being streamed absolutely needs to be out within a day or two at least.

Man, I really wish one person would even make an attempt to justify the delay other than "meh, I don't personally care, so it doesn't matter", especially when they're shitting on people for using what they personally care about in their arguments.

The comic book adaptation comparison doesn't work because that's not the issue anyone is having. They don't release Daredevil seasons 5 month after the French release. Nobody was pissed about how ReLife came out. The bulk format is not the issue.

It's also simple math in the end. The person who watches after a season's completion is not harmed by the weekly release. The person who watches weekly IS HARMED by the pointless anti consumer delay.
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removals would suck, yeah. meanwhile how many people have seen madoka and fate/zero on netflix again?

or for a straight to netflix anime, castlevania?

if you want to see it that badly then let the fansub industry grow again and have fun, no big deal there. and the "delay" isn't really an issue as either you'll a) watch those or b) just watch something else and when it's up on netflix you'd get to it. if you don't want to do that then can't honestly say you were interested in the show anyway.
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swordz9 posted...

Honestly anything airing on tv that isn't already finished should be simulcast. It's one thing if it's a Netflix original they add all at once, but anything airing on tv that is being streamed absolutely needs to be out within a day or two at least.

Regaro posted...

Netflix doing anime is good in concept. But the execution with the aforementioned delay and inevitable removal, is utter garbage. In conclusion, fuck netflix.

Amazon is fine, if on the expensive side.

Indeed. Again, the simulcast is what this industry is built on. Without it, it falls to piracy and dies. An anime streaming service without simulcast is worthless and indefensible, and any show released with such a delay is going to suffer a huge chunk of its potential popularity as has already been shown. Hell, even the Amazon barrier has harmed the impact of literally every single show they grabbed the exclusive rights to.
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