Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Raziel and Chrom vs. Geralt, Yuffie and Sephiroth

(+) Yeah! (+)

Lopen posted...

Imo Chrom would just kick Geralt's ass if he found him alone anyway. Aether !! is really good in a duel and he's got a strong set of sustain weapons there. Would really need to be Yuffie or Seph that found him, or for Geralt to have laid a trap (which is hard to do if Chrom isn't advancing) for it to be a clear loss for Chrom.

Yeah plus doesnt Geralt use swords? Chrom would use his blessed lance which would also help control range
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oh man that's a weapon triangle advantage
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What the hell is this yuffie write up
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Its true if theres one thing I 1000% buy Chrom to do it is to defeat a swordsman with a lance
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Team Chrom

I'd normally have Seph styling all over Raziel, but Raziel with +50% params can probably land some hits on Seph, which is not good because that Soul Reaver HURTS, even if you're Sephiroth. Not sure what he does during his first life, but I'm thinking taking out everyone that isn't Seph is more likely than not as non Sephs are one shot by the reaver I think.

And then taking out Seph with the second life is doable, especially since he probably has Chrom as backup the second time around, who if nothing else is a good distraction making it easier still for Raziel to get a hit in, and reasonably tanky + able to sustain himself. And I don't buy the enemy team having full knowledge of Raziel's parameter boost either cause that's kinda silly.
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Team Raziel.

Same as Lopen, I don't buy knowing 'mercs' abilities. And given that, I think invisible Raziel getting the gank is a real threat, and if he does it's over - he cleans up afterwards, given one of the things he can do is, for instance, a stunning spell that locks everyone in the vicinity down for several seconds. If Yuffie was with her team I think this match is more debatable, but splitting up here hurts.
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Raziel's also very good at TK (it's generally more of his thing than Kain's even). Stealth combined with TK and general speed and power is pretty good for getting a kill in on one of his lives.

So yeah, Team Raziel too. The idea of Chrom using a lance against Geralt for weapon advantage is funny too, since it's not only Fire Emblem logic, but Witcher logic too: (book spoilers) Geralt dies to a peasant stabbing him with a pitchfork)
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Thats pretty helpful knowledge
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lol
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Bass.EXE with the MP3 loadout can topple Bayonetta and Weltall Id

Yuffie with the same proficiency can't do shit
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

I think invisible Raziel getting the gank is a real threat,

Nep-Yuffie-Samus has a visor just for seeing invisible enemies.
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razichrom
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How the fuck does Chrom live past a single Gunship bombing run or stick around with Seph gunning for him?
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"Additionally, he has studied Chrom and has knowledge of his fighting style, abilities, equipment, and weaknesses, with plenty of oils applied to his weapons that would make them extra effective against his target."

But he doesn't come in with any knowledge that would actually be helpful. It says he knows all of his abilities but some are obviously exempt.
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That refers to combat abilities

Example: "This guy has healing spells, can see in the dark, and turn into a ghost". That kinda stuff. Not meta abilities.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

That refers to combat abilities

Example: "This guy has healing spells, can see in the dark, and turn into a ghost". That kinda stuff. Not meta abilities.

If it effects something during combat I don't see how it isn't a fucking combat ability. Like if Chrom had a pre-battle that resolved prior to the match, sure fine. But Geralt knows all of his abilities and he is actively boosting a teammate.
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Like y'all have been spared for the past ~9 months of me posting during a match when I'm drunk. But this is complete horseshit.
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Well, my counterargument would be - would you argue 'full knowledge of the enemy team's capabilities' should include knowing that when teams meet, one of the merc will instantly KO one of your own mercenaries, for example? It feels like it shouldn't. I can't really offer a better explanation except that it feels very wrong for meta stuff like abilities to be known outside of things that explicitly grant 'match writeup information', like Psycho Mantis' Castlevania ability. Hopefully that makes sense.
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JeezyMiyagi posted...

If it effects something during combat I don't see how it isn't a fucking combat ability. Like if Chrom had a pre-battle that resolved prior to the match, sure fine. But Geralt knows all of his abilities and he is actively boosting a teammate.

I agree with this. I don't think he gets the literal ability text but he does know "Chrom has the power to boost an ally by 50% until his death." He doesn't know for sure if Chrom's using it but it's a reasonable possibility.

tbh if this were regular Yuffie, rather than Neptune, her team definitely takes it. I give the ninja enough credit to avoid a gank, and then she puts on the X-Ray Visor and the game is up. (It might also incidentally help with finding Chrom, though if Raziel's in front of her she obviously has more pressing concerns.)

Also she could haste Sephiroth, which is a big deal. Regular Sephiroth can style all over regular Raziel. Hasted Sephiroth can also style all over 50% boosted Raziel. But regular Sephiroth versus 50% boosted Raziel is not so favorable.

As-is, I'm not so sure...Neptune is packing a lot of firepower, but it's plausible that she dies before she even knows an invisible swordsman is in play. On the other hand, if she reunites with Sephiroth asap, then she may not even be the first gank target. Also I'm not sure how much invisibility Raziel gets (I assume he starts with full Reaver gauge?) Basically I think team Seph has more raw power but I'm not sure how well they leverage it against an enemy with decent stealth and partial invisibility.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Well, my counterargument would be - would you argue 'full knowledge of the enemy team's capabilities' should include knowing that when teams meet, one of the merc will instantly KO one of your own mercenaries, for example?

imo, Geralt doesn't know what abilities have or haven't been used. But he would definitely know "this merc is capable of instantly knocking out an enemy, without using his weapons."
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I'm not arguing that they know when the teams meet, I mean Geralt could know that based on his knowledge of the terrain but it's unrelated to his pre-battle. But saying that Chrom has a combat ability and that Geralt doesn't know about it is complete bullshit.
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Drakeryn posted...

tbh if this were regular Yuffie, rather than Neptune, her team definitely takes it.

I agree with this, which is why I asked earlier.
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FFDragon posted...

I agree with this, which is why I asked earlier.

What the fuck is the difference? Seph not only has all the relevant materia but he also has the All materia from his time as a party member. Even if you believe that Chrom lives through a Gunship bombing run for some reason, Seph can debuff Raziel's speed below his normal speed.
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Like you fuckers are basically saying that Yuffie gets nothing from Samus while a lot of the same fuckers voted for Bass over Bayonetta and Weltall.
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Drakeryn posted...

JeezyMiyagi posted...

If it effects something during combat I don't see how it isn't a fucking combat ability. Like if Chrom had a pre-battle that resolved prior to the match, sure fine. But Geralt knows all of his abilities and he is actively boosting a teammate.

I agree with this. I don't think he gets the literal ability text but he does know "Chrom has the power to boost an ally by 50% until his death." He doesn't know for sure if Chrom's using it but it's a reasonable possibility.

tbh if this were regular Yuffie, rather than Neptune, her team definitely takes it. I give the ninja enough credit to avoid a gank, and then she puts on the X-Ray Visor and the game is up. (It might also incidentally help with finding Chrom, though if Raziel's in front of her she obviously has more pressing concerns.)

Also she could haste Sephiroth, which is a big deal. Regular Sephiroth can style all over regular Raziel. Hasted Sephiroth can also style all over 50% boosted Raziel. But regular Sephiroth versus 50% boosted Raziel is not so favorable.

As-is, I'm not so sure...Neptune is packing a lot of firepower, but it's plausible that she dies before she even knows an invisible swordsman is in play. On the other hand, if she reunites with Sephiroth asap, then she may not even be the first gank target. Also I'm not sure how much invisibility Raziel gets (I assume he starts with full Reaver gauge?) Basically I think team Seph has more raw power but I'm not sure how well they leverage it against an enemy with decent stealth and partial invisibility.

why wouldn't she be using the x-ray visor to try and find enemies as opposed to reacting to a gank

that seems sorta dumb
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Wait, does Sephiroth have haste? I didn't think he had buffs/debuffs at least in his human form, not entirely sure about his boss forms.

JeezyMiyagi posted...

a lot of the same fuckers voted for Bass over Bayonetta and Weltall

that was just dumb

tbh I thought that Sephiroth/Sigma alone would make a close fight, Weltall Id is just kind of a mountain of icing on top of that cake
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JeezyMiyagi posted...

Like y'all have been spared for the past ~9 months of me posting during a match when I'm drunk. But this is complete horseshit.

dante & friends in dmc vs sephiroth sends their regards
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Chaeix posted...

why wouldn't she be using the x-ray visor to try and find enemies as opposed to reacting to a gank

that seems sorta dumb

X-Ray Visor limits your vision, doesn't it? It makes it harder to see if you're not dealing with invisible enemies. I don't know if her first reaction in every fight is "Let's put on the X-Ray Visor just in case." I'd be more willing to buy that from Yuffie since she likes sneaky tactics and is probably also more on the alert for them, but my impression of Neptune is she's more of a lovable derp.
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I voted against the Samus weapon loadout both times for what it's worth
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Sephiroth doesn't explicitly have Haste although he explicitly demonstrates having both Slow and Stop. I think it's not totally unreasonable considering Haste/Slow/Stop come from the same materia to say that Seph has Haste too but it is debatable.

But even if he doesn't have Haste, if he slows Raziel he'll be moving slower than his base speed even with the parameter boost.
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Drakeryn posted...

Chaeix posted...

why wouldn't she be using the x-ray visor to try and find enemies as opposed to reacting to a gank

that seems sorta dumb

X-Ray Visor limits your vision, doesn't it? It makes it harder to see if you're not dealing with invisible enemies. I don't know if her first reaction in every fight is "Let's put on the X-Ray Visor just in case." I'd be more willing to buy that from Yuffie since she likes sneaky tactics and is probably also more on the alert for them, but my impression of Neptune is she's more of a lovable derp.

it limits it a bit but the point is that anyone making any type of reasonable pre-battle plan (especially one trying to find a specific target) is going to include "scan for enemies" in their list of things to do early in a fight

like it would be dumb not to use it
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Drakeryn posted...

X-Ray Visor limits your vision, doesn't it? It makes it harder to see if you're not dealing with invisible enemies. I don't know if her first reaction in every fight is "Let's put on the X-Ray Visor just in case." I'd be more willing to buy that from Yuffie since she likes sneaky tactics and is probably also more on the alert for them, but my impression of Neptune is she's more of a lovable derp.

Yuffie is still Yuffie just in Nep skin
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the main issue i see with Neptune and this:

JeezyMiyagi posted...

Like you fuckers are basically saying that Yuffie gets nothing from Samus while a lot of the same fuckers voted for Bass over Bayonetta and Weltall.

is that there isn't anybody who's actually aware of the material.
Neptune i think nobody knows because the only people who've played any Neptunia for more than a couple hours is reduced to me and... who? Bayo's likely the same thing since her being in this at all is a stupid thing. Weltall i got nothin', Bass ain't relevant against that in any way, shape, or form. would assume somebody just overhyped the hell out of him in the past and he doesn't make sense.


people basically don't know what Neptune can do, what she's done, the scope of the universe, etc.
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Team Sephiroth

Sephiroth having Slow (and quite plausibly Haste) is enough to swing this match for me, I think.

- Neptune is not really the solo stakeout type as far as I know. She probably tries to reunite with the rest of the team. I think she's likely to reach the team before Raziel reaches her, because she has a shorter distance to go (assuming they're also advancing) and is not concerning herself with stealth.

- So it's a 3v1. Suppose Raziel cloaks himself beforehand, goes for the invisible gank. If he goes for not-Nep -- a two-thirds chance -- then she is going to realize something's up, go for the X-Ray Visor, and his game is up.

- And yeah I think his invisibility being limited + debuffs from Seph are enough for Team Seph to take him down. If he dies, Chrom is pretty much negligible.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

one of the things he can do is, for instance, a stunning spell that locks everyone in the vicinity down for several seconds

He would need to see Raizel before he could know to cast slow, and then when Raizel is there he is getting some open shots in. Seph's loadout is more prepared for something drawn out and with more going on, he is gettink gankked and thats not something he is well equoped for
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Post is directed at Drak with using Kanz's post for the move example
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match has way too little time to really get into Neptune but this does give her some more oomph than an initial glance would give.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

She may activate her HDD form at any time, and whilst she cannot use Linked attacks, EX Finishers and EXE Drive skills can be used once the EXE Drive Gauge has been built up.

in terms of the most immediate thing needed, last skill:
http://neptunia.wikia.com/wiki/Command/SP/Re;Birth1/Neptune
Description:This will raise the VIT, MEN, AGI, and TEC of a single ally.
Of course the main character gets an awesome buff like this!

she's good support.
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ScareChan posted...

He would need to see Raizel before he could know to cast slow, and then when Raizel is there he is getting some open shots in. Seph's loadout is more prepared for something drawn out and with more going on, he is gettink gankked and thats not something he is well equoped for

Do you think that Raziel goes for Sephiroth first? I'm honestly not sure on this -- I've been treating it as a tossup because I don't think any of the three is the really obvious target.

(also, I'm not sure what you mean by saying Seph is more prepared for something drawn out)

(also I hate to be "that guy" but it's Raziel, not Raizel)
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Wanglicious posted...

in terms of the most immediate thing needed, last skill:
http://neptunia.wikia.com/wiki/Command/SP/Re;Birth1/Neptune
Description:This will raise the VIT, MEN, AGI, and TEC of a single ally.
Of course the main character gets an awesome buff like this!

she's good support.

oh yeah somehow it didn't occur to me that Neptune might have buffs

that makes things simpler
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Wanglicious posted...

she's good support.

No, no she's not. Neptune is a SHIT support. She's built universally through the games as a close combat fighter and that's it. She's got a few one-off buffs which are AWFUL because they don't target a group, but only single targetting which last only for a single round, which at max she can cast something like 10 or so times.

btw what is geralt doing during all of this

is he just dying or what
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Playing cards
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thats about all good he is for having played witcher 3
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like I don't respect geralt's actual combat at all (I saw a video of him fighting some random wolves, it was a tough battle) but I thought he had support stuff. freeze bombs or something
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well yeah in game she sucks but for the purposes of this match, she's good.
though speaking of close combat, EX Finisher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlpMl5DElWw


should make up for some of the "not yuffie" aspects. as for the HDD: Neptune EXE Drive skill...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6lz9d7CthY



seems a bit wrong to overlook somebody that turns into a jet that then fires two missiles that then turn into four homing missiles each.


edited this because got it wrong.
she literally TURNS INTO the jet.
so uh... okay yes, she technically has flight. and missiles. though only briefly.
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my geralt respect is v low so lol
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Geralt could whomp Chrom's ass in a 1v1 easy with his signs and superior reflexes and bombs

But he also has experience fighting higher vampires (and winnning) and could freeze or injure Raziel

But I've never heard a single defense for Chrom living past the first bombing run
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If you've played Witcher 3 and you don't think Geralt is a league ahead of Chrom you are full of shit straight up
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Drakeryn posted...

but my impression of Neptune is she's more of a lovable derp.

almost forgot about this.
that's a yes and no answer.

Neptune, in base form, is a lovable derp.
Neptune's HDD form, Purple Heart, is super serious, a lot stronger in combat, and her main flaw is she's too arrogant.

different personalities but both available at any time.
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The write-up says it's Yuffie so I don't know why we're discussing Neptune's personality to begin with.
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