Current Events > Let Illinois' impending collapse be a lesson on taxation.

(+) Yeah! (+)

You cannot impose $5,000 to $10,000 in yearly property taxes on $200,000 homes and expect the state to maintain a middle class. You cannot increase consumption and local taxes and expect to retain the large population.

As more and more people leave Illinois, its issues become more insurmountable. It won't be long before I leave permanently too. I sure as hell won't be buying any investment property anywhere in Illinois.

Let this be a lesson to everyone here who has no problem with high taxes and/or thinks they should be higher.
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It's collapsing because of the lack of a budget for over two years.
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Clad posted...

You cannot impose $5,000 to $10,000 in yearly property taxes on $200,000 homes and expect the state to maintain a middle class. You cannot increase consumption and local taxes and expect to retain the large population.

As more and more people leave Illinois, its issues become more insurmountable. It won't be long before I leave permanently too. I sure as hell won't be buying any investment property anywhere in Illinois.

Let this be a lesson to everyone here who has no problem with high taxes and/or thinks they should be higher.

I don't want taxes to be higher for people who only own a $200,000 home, I do want them to be much higher for people who own $20,000,000 homes.

What is so hard to understand about that?
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ChromaticAngel posted...

Clad posted...

You cannot impose $5,000 to $10,000 in yearly property taxes on $200,000 homes and expect the state to maintain a middle class. You cannot increase consumption and local taxes and expect to retain the large population.

As more and more people leave Illinois, its issues become more insurmountable. It won't be long before I leave permanently too. I sure as hell won't be buying any investment property anywhere in Illinois.

Let this be a lesson to everyone here who has no problem with high taxes and/or thinks they should be higher.

I don't want taxes to be higher for people who only own a $200,000 home, I do want them to be much higher for people who own $20,000,000 homes.

What is so hard to understand about that?

Those people will leave the state



Where will those tax dollars come from now?
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ChromaticAngel posted...

I do want them to be much higher for people who own $20,000,000 homes.

why
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Clad posted...

You cannot impose $5,000 to $10,000 in yearly property taxes on $200,000 homes and expect the state to maintain a middle class. You cannot increase consumption and local taxes and expect to retain the large population.

As more and more people leave Illinois, its issues become more insurmountable. It won't be long before I leave permanently too. I sure as hell won't be buying any investment property anywhere in Illinois.

Let this be a lesson to everyone here who has no problem with high taxes and/or thinks they should be higher.

New Jersey: "That's where you're wrong, kiddo."
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Come to Wisco, man. It's great, honestly. Plus we have a much better Football team.
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Illinois seems like it has a state government that has no concept of cost-effectiveness. The idea of trying to make a government service give a better "bang for your buck" is like a completely foreign concept. That's just my observation as a casual layman outside observer.
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J E S U S posted...

Those people will leave the state

Someone will own the $20,000,000 house even if they leave the state.

J E S U S posted...

Where will those tax dollars come from now?

From the owners of the houses.
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Illinois is all around a terrible state. They require you to get a FOID card to buy a firearm.
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Holy crap

If I had to pay $10k a year in property taxes, I would just rent instead.

lol I typo'd earlier
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I pay $2800. Holy shit at $10k
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DifferentialEquation posted...

Illinois is all around a terrible state. They require you to get a FOID card to buy a firearm.

It's funny because apparently if you're a resident you need that card to buy ammunition, but if you're an Indiana resident they just look at your Indiana ID and say "Oh, you're fine." and sell it to you.

At least at the stores I've been to.
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HydraSlayer82 posted...

I pay $2800. Holy shit at $10k

In parts of NJ a 3 bedroom house on half an acre of land can run you upwards of $14K a year in property tax.
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The most important thing is which team can we blame this on to score political points.
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That property tax is insane. Why even invest in real estate, at that point?
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tremain07 posted...

The most important thing is which team can we blame this on to score political points.

Should we blame the government? Or blame society? Or should we blame the images on TV?
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property tax funds education, mostly

and it's generally determined by local, not state-level, government

the idea that you can blame the state government's issues on something that isnt a part of its budget is pretty much a lie
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Darkman124 posted...

property tax funds education, mostly

and it's generally determined by local, not state-level, government

the idea that you can blame the state government's issues on something that isnt a part of its budget is pretty much a lie

State governments can place caps on taxes.
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uwnim posted...

State governments can place caps on taxes.

that's nice

it has nothing to do with claims of any state government 'collapsing' though as it's not part of the state budget
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Any good state politician will tell you the best way to increase tax income is to tax the poor. Because it is not like they can go anywhere. So what you do is raise cigarette taxes by a percent or two. Raise the price of lottery tickets by a dollar. And if the state has not done it yet legalize gambling and build some casinos in state. Put a tax on alcohol too. And you will have more money for the state coffers in no time.
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Darkman124 posted...

property tax funds education, mostly

and it's generally determined by local, not state-level, government

the idea that you can blame the state government's issues on something that isnt a part of its budget is pretty much a lie

was about to say, I live in a very red county in GA of all places and my parent's taxes on property are through the roof because we have had a boom in population but don't have a ton of major business to make up the difference.
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What's interesting is that Illinois is in much worse shape than Kansas.
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Darkman124 posted...

property tax funds education, mostly

and it's generally determined by local, not state-level, government

the idea that you can blame the state government's issues on something that isnt a part of its budget is pretty much a lie

I'd say it funds pensions, mostly, but education is a close #2
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Here in Philadelphia, there are city employees whose sole job is to sneak into back yards and peek into windows.

Anything they consider a major home improvement, they'll add to the property tax.
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s0nicfan posted...

I'd say it funds pensions, mostly, but education is a close #2

interesting. in md education is def its #1 use
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Property taxes, even as a concept, are bullshit. You are paying the government for land that you own. I mean if that isn't some kind of Mafia style racket, then nothing is.
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Darkman124 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

I'd say it funds pensions, mostly, but education is a close #2

interesting. in md education is def its #1 use

http://www.publicsectorinc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/crowd-out-nj.png

It's a problem in NJ. Apparently like 30 years ago the state lured in people by offering them full benefits for them and their extended family forever, and now all those people are retiring and it's killing the state in a significant way.

http://www.publicsectorinc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/nj-pensions.png
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wow. it is crazy how bad defined-benefit pensions have hit state budgets
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GoldSocksForWok posted...

What's interesting is that Illinois is in much worse shape than Kansas.

What's going on with them?
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The rich have been trying to erode the middle class for decades

s0nicfan posted...

Darkman124 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

I'd say it funds pensions, mostly, but education is a close #2

interesting. in md education is def its #1 use

http://www.publicsectorinc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/crowd-out-nj.png

It's a problem in NJ. Apparently like 30 years ago the state lured in people by offering them full benefits for them and their extended family forever, and now all those people are retiring and it's killing the state in a significant way.

http://www.publicsectorinc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/nj-pensions.png

yeah its killing new jersey
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Darkman124 posted...

wow. it is crazy how bad defined-benefit pensions have hit state budgets

It's complicated by the fact that the elderly are one of the largest voting blocs, and pensions are by far the most toxic item to touch in a state budget, meaning the state is completely screwed. NJ just added 23 cents to the gallon on their gas tax to fight off growing expenses. They tried bumping up the interstate tolls but that got voted down, so now they're just not paying into the state pension fund in the hopes it collapses entirely.

It doesn't help that NJ also has one of the highest concentrations of government corruption in the country, though. Lots and LOTS of double dipping. Things like state employees getting a 2 or 3X salary boost their last year to significantly bump their pension, then retiring only to effectively take their old position in a consulting role so they can get a paycheck and a pension at the same time.
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Living in NJ is much worse than Illinois. I'll be migrating down to South Carolina or Florida soon enough. This state can eat shit.
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EvalAngell posted...

Living in NJ is much worse than Illinois. I'll be migrating down to South Carolina or Florida soon enough. This state can eat shit.

Do you live in north or south jersey?
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s0nicfan posted...

It's complicated by the fact that the elderly are one of the largest voting blocs, and pensions are far the most toxic item to touch in a state budget, meaning the state is completely screwed. NJ just added 23 cents to the gallon on their gas tax to fight off growing expenses

prop 2 on the ballot was approved so all the taxes on the gas(which FUCKING SUCKED BTW) go towards transportation expenses
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s0nicfan posted...

EvalAngell posted...

Living in NJ is much worse than Illinois. I'll be migrating down to South Carolina or Florida soon enough. This state can eat shit.

Do you live in north or south jersey?

Centralish...East Windsor to be precise. Me and my girlfriend bought a townhome and our taxes are around $8K a year. But I lived in North Brunswick during my high school years. The one good thing is that mom's home has appreciated 4X the purchase price of what she paid back in 1999.
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Xeno14 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

It's complicated by the fact that the elderly are one of the largest voting blocs, and pensions are far the most toxic item to touch in a state budget, meaning the state is completely screwed. NJ just added 23 cents to the gallon on their gas tax to fight off growing expenses

prop 2 on the ballot was approved so all the taxes on the gas(which FUCKING SUCKED BTW) go towards transportation expenses

prop 2 was the most poorly worded thing I've ever seen on a ballot, and I don't even really know if it was really worth it. It gave me the impression that Christie put this massive tax in place so he could raid the funds, and prop 2 was basically a giant "fuck you" to him by locking it where he couldn't get it, which ultimately meant we got the new tax AND it went almost exclusively into an area that was already well funded.
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EvalAngell posted...

s0nicfan posted...

EvalAngell posted...

Living in NJ is much worse than Illinois. I'll be migrating down to South Carolina or Florida soon enough. This state can eat shit.

Do you live in north or south jersey?

Centralish...East Windsor to be precise. Me and my girlfriend bought a townhome and our taxes are around $8K a year. But I lived in North Brunswick during my high school years. The one good thing is that mom's home has appreciated 4X the purchase price of what she paid back in 1999.

If you hate the brunswick area you're going to hate florida even more. Taxes are cheaper, but everything else suffers for it. At least you avoided north jersey, though, which is basically a dumpster fire.
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I don't hate the area. I know the Northern areas of NJ are much scarier places to live. It's just such an expensive state to live in. The traffic/construction is nonstop. Me and my girl do well for ourselves and live quite comfortably but we can't help but imagine how much better our lives would be down south.
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EvalAngell posted...

I don't hate the area. I know the Northern areas of NJ are much scarier places to live. It's just such an expensive state to live in. The traffic/construction is nonstop. Me and my girl do well for ourselves and live quite comfortably but we can't help but imagine how much better our lives would be down south.

Depends on your long term plans. Schooling in Florida is abysmal, so if you're hoping to have kids and you want them to actually succeed, sticking to NJ which has the #1 or #2 highest rated public school system in the country (year after year) would be good. Property also appreciates much more in NJ if you move into any number of areas still expanding, so it can be a smart (albeit expensive) investment as well, whereas Florida is kind of stagnant right now for property.

If you're just looking to move somewhere warm and cheap so you can set money aside, Florida is probably fine, but if you're looking to settle down and grow roots, there are plenty of reasons to stay.
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s0nicfan posted...

EvalAngell posted...

I don't hate the area. I know the Northern areas of NJ are much scarier places to live. It's just such an expensive state to live in. The traffic/construction is nonstop. Me and my girl do well for ourselves and live quite comfortably but we can't help but imagine how much better our lives would be down south.

Depends on your long term plans. Schooling in Florida is abysmal, so if you're hoping to have kids and you want them to actually succeed, sticking to NJ which has the #1 or #2 highest rated public school system in the country (year after year) would be good. Property also appreciates much more in NJ if you move into any number of areas still expanding, so it can be a smart (albeit expensive) investment as well, whereas Florida is kind of stagnant right now for property.

If you're just looking to move somewhere warm and cheap so you can set money aside, Florida is probably fine, but if you're looking to settle down and grow roots, there are plenty of reasons to stay.

Or you know, move to a number of other warm states that aren't NJ or Florida.
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State pensions need to be allowed to collapse.

Darkman124 posted...

wow. it is crazy how bad defined-benefit pensions have hit state budgets

Yes. This is usually the answer to the question of why state and local government finances are screwed in so many places. And the blame goes to both sides of the aisle, because as much as Republicans love to try and cut pensions for most government employees, they would rather slice off a finger than reduce the insane pensions so many law enforcement officers and firefighters receive.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

Someone will own the $20,000,000 house even if they leave the state

Hodor
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Too much corruption for this liberal state

seems to me the problem with your states finances is that they have a flat income tax and exempt all pensions from income taxes entirely lmao
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For example, Illinois exempts all pension and retirement income from their tax base which costs the state more than $1 billion annually.
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Yeah Illinois is a corrupt as fuck shit hole nanny state. Chicago is the only redeeming part of it.
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