Current Events > Should police have to wear body cams?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm not against it.

Companies have no issue monitoring the calls of their workers and placing cameras in the office/kitchen to make sure everyone is being attentive, but somehow body cameras on public servants in public is a controversial issue. Weird isn't it?
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Literally no reason for them to not. If they fuck up it deserves to be known and it will also protect them from false allegations (in theory). So a win win tbh
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Absolutely not.

It's a terrible idea for anyone who looks at it beyond a few seconds. The only reason it is even being considered is so politicians can score points by looking like "they are getting things done." when in reality all they are doing is wasting tax payer money and putting people in danger.
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Win for cops and win for citizens. Absolutely no valid argument against it as long as they dont mysteriously malfunction or switch off during an incident.
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I would say yes, but it doesn't matter. Kill a black guy on camera for no reason and get have great chance to walk in this nation .
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I could see an argument against it on the grounds that it would be like taking away everyone's choice to not be filmed but fuck it, I'd rather have the cams.
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RedWhiteBlue posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Absolutely not.

It's a terrible idea for anyone who looks at it beyond a few seconds. The only reason it is even being considered is so politicians can score points by looking like "they are getting things done." when in reality all they are doing is wasting tax payer money and putting people in danger.

Ladies and gentlemen, UR the Contrarian.

He probably hates fried chicken and weekends too.
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It doesn't even matter.
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It's a great idea because it can help exonerate innocent cops and identify guilty ones. There are plenty of videos I've seen where a cop's actions may have come into question if they weren't wearing a bodycam to prove they were in the right. There's nothing but massive benefit for cameras that can show the scene of a crime asap because it provides the most evidence.
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ShinigamiSoul posted...

It doesn't even matter.

Valid point. Which was the case where the body cams "malfunctioned" during the incident?

Edit: Baton Rouge, I think
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RebelElite791 posted...

Win for cops and win for citizens. Absolutely no valid argument against it as long as they dont mysteriously malfunction or switch off during an incident.

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It clearly doesn't stop them from murdering people, but it does help prove they did.
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RebelElite791 posted...

Win for cops and win for citizens. Absolutely no valid argument against it as long as they dont mysteriously malfunction or switch off during an incident.

Except the laundry list of valid examples.

For example the fact that everywhere that has trialed the mandatory body cams (not just the US, including Europe and South Korea) has led to a 15-20% increase in harrasment and violent crime by civilians.

They see a body cam and think they are invincible. That the police will be too nervous or scared to do anything physical.

Going beyond actual crime, the police in question reported that the general public were more hostile and aggresssive towards them when they were wearing body cams to when they were not.

So they are dangerous, for the general public and cops.

So that's the #1 safety idea out the window at the first hurdle.

#2 idea. "We can use it to put away corrupt cops and protect da wrongly charged innocants!"

Wrong.

It's immensely rare in any court case in history for police body cam footage to make much of a difference in evidence or deliberation. Putting aside the already mentioned "malfunctions." as well as cams being knocked off police during high pressure situations, even if the cam is intact is it rare for a body-cam to show an entire violent situation.

Usually as a result information from them is dismissed. A cam showing a cop punching a crook, the crook running away and then being found and shot 8 minutes later doesn't actually tell you much of anything.

Footage from car and body cams might get you internet outrage on social media and youtube, but in courts it actually means very little.

Body cam evidence is weak.
Actual corrupt cops know how to beat the system in more ways than one.

The only people who will be effected by body cams on a court scale will be once in a blue moon, good cops in bad scenarios after misleading social media pushes.

So again, a huge negative.

Seriously you think in the 21st century a lack of people filming crap is what is allowing corrupt police to thrive? Seriously?

Another issue is that when shit hits the fan, communities and government don't WANT things to be filmed. AS that means more and more arrests/investigations an terrible PR for the media.

In most riot and looting situations the police are advised not to wear body cams. And before you waggle your fingers and say "Corrupt police." it's often the rioters who are demanding it. College groups have flat out requested police not wear cams at "demonstrations." they plan to turn violent.

Another issue, whose paying for them? Taxpayers. So thats another cost to our already underfunded police just to do something that will harm good people.


And a less serious one on a grand scale but still a relevant one:

General life being hit by 1984.

Cop wants to tell his friend a hilarious but sexist joke? Cop one day has a hot-dog while on duty? Well now it's on film, now someone who has it in for him or a bad PR day and that's ruined his stellar career and all the things she or he has accomplished.

AS a result, cops don't talk. Not to the community, not to each other. No smiles, no personality. Say and do nothing that can get you in trouble. Be utterly robotic.

Remember that cop that played Basketball with kids? Or let the pot smokers off with a warning? Or broke dance at the gay pride parade?

Mandatory body cams means say goodbye to that. Now minor crime caught? You're nicked. And the cops doing it will be robotic and joyless.

Mandatory body-cams are a bad idea. You're just too lazy to listen to why.
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Oh, lol. Sarcasm.
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Xelltrix posted...

He probably hates fried chicken and weekends too.

I love fried chicken.

I don't hate weekends perse but I wish Sunday was treated as a normal day. It's annoying for people like me who work 6/7 days a week that so many businsesses are closed or acting weird on Sunday.

Saturday is no different to any other weekday to me.
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Do you have links to any of those studies?
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charey posted...

Do you have links to any of those studies?

I don't have the links to the body-cam trials handy as they are kinda buried in boring Government statistic sites and PDFs(Media very much underreported it when the results came in showing the opposite of what they wanted)

But there's plenty of studies about the increased body cam violence and lack of use in court

https://www.rand.org/news/press/2016/05/17.html
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160815/08474935244/study-says-police-body-cameras-have-contributed-to-increased-uses-deadly-force.shtml

They're not a solution to anything. They're just something that "Feels good" nothing else.

It's like in Brazil when they spent millions to paint slums so the politicians could go "There I did something and fixed the problem." while doing nothing but downplaying and hurting people
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Oh no people are meaner to the police who wear body cams. Sad!
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Great so you admit body cams have nothing to do with protecting police or the general population, or courts and do nothing but harm society and cost millions.

But you support them anyway to spite Donald Trump.

Stellar logic.
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I'd say yes so people can stop bitching and instead of only seeing the cop being "bad" part, we can see the whole story.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

That the police will be too nervous or scared to do anything physical.

if only they received training of some kind on what types of physical responses were proper and justified in different situations.

UnfairRepresent posted...

the police in question reported that the general public were more hostile and aggresssive towards them when they were wearing body cams to when they were not.

of course they did
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Maybe if the cops turned them on when they got a call or something and not 24 hour survallance
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Yes, unfortnatley, I don't think that would change much.
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if only they received training of some kind on what types of physical responses were proper and justified in different situations.

What kind of logic is this?
"Cops are trained to deal with violence therefore it's okay to be violent towards them and spending millions to needlessly attack them is grand"

Utter nonsense.

the police in question reported that the general public were more hostile and aggresssive towards them when they were wearing body cams to when they were not.


of course they did

I love the irony of this post. Not just that it shows
You ignored 99.98% of every point raised. And not just because you are furious that the factual results destroy your worldview.

But because your own implication obliterated your own worldview.

"We need bodycams to prove cops are lying! Bodycams will give us the whole truth and that is vital"

"We trailed body cams and it just led to more violence, strict police and no effect in court."

"Well clearly all those cops in body cams are lying! If only somehow we knew the truth!"


Says it all right there
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UnfairRepresent posted...

and putting people in danger.

...what?
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Honestly, it'd make life easier for everyone involved.

Instead of saSir Will posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

and putting people in danger.

...what?

Instead of saying "what?" Actually read the topic
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UnfairRepresent posted...

"Cops are trained to deal with violence therefore it's okay to be violent towards them and spending millions to needlessly attack them is grand"

this is what you got out of that, eh?

okay *rolls eyes*
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Instead of saSir Will posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

and putting people in danger.

...what?

Instead of saying "what?" Actually read the topic

Nah, too much of your bullshit to wade through.
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No. It's a waste of money and if I want to know what happened in a particular incident then I'll just read or listen to the police officer's account of what happened.
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Sir Will posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Instead of saSir Will posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

and putting people in danger.

...what?

Instead of saying "what?" Actually read the topic

Nah, too much of your bullshit to wade through.

"If facts and research disagree with my worldview then it's bullshit. So let's spend millions of your dollars to hurt people because I am so lazy and close minded."

And then you wonder why Donald Trump and Brexit won
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bodycams give us more information and more information is always good when it comes to finding out what happened
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ThyCorndog posted...

bodycams give us more information and more information is always good when it comes to finding out what happened

Not according to any research.

It has such a small effect in court that it is debatably negligible.

The only thing it gives "More information" too are Youtube accounts and social media who try to spin stories.

Meanwhile it can also do the exact opposite and create misinformation.

Don't know if you remember it as people like Sir Pill will intentionally try to forget it. But a while back there was his huge fuss about footage of what looked like a cop shooting a suspect and then planting a weapon by the suspect's body.

it turned out to be utter bullshit. But because of the footage and close minded people were too lazy to look into the facts, it lead to a huge harrasment campaign against the cop.

Seriously I have to repeat. You seriously believe the problem with crime and police corruption is .... That in 2017 not enough people are filming each other?

Seriously? That's what you think?

Come on. Pull the other one.
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I would rather have footage from a police body cam than take the police's word for it
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UnfairRepresent posted...

ThyCorndog posted...

bodycams give us more information and more information is always good when it comes to finding out what happened

Not according to any research.

It has such a small effect in court that it is debatably negligible.

The only thing it gives "More information" too are Youtube accounts and social media who try to spin stories.

Meanwhile it can also do the exact opposite and create misinformation.

Don't know if you remember it as people like Sir Pill will intentionally try to forget it. But a while back there was his huge fuss about footage of what looked like a cop shooting a suspect and then planting a weapon by the suspect's body.

it turned out to be utter bullshit. But because of the footage and close minded people were too lazy to look into the facts, it lead to a huge harrasment campaign against the cop.

Seriously I have to repeat. You seriously believe the problem with crime and police corruption is .... That in 2017 not enough people are filming each other?

Seriously? That's what you think?

Come on. Pull the other one.

Didn't some cops do an experiment with body cams showing the many many many many different ways you can interpret what happened during the footage? And how a running cop basically makes them useless?
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MorbidFaithless posted...

Literally no reason for them to not. If they fuck up it deserves to be known and it will also protect them from false allegations (in theory). So a win win tbh

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LightHawKnight posted...

Didn't some cops do an experiment with body cams showing the many many many many different ways you can interpret what happened during the footage? And how a running cop basically makes them useless?

Probably.

There's been experiments like that for a long time since the idea of portable cameras originally took off.

Footage alone rarely has an impact in court. It's only really useful to prove people are lying. AKA They say they weren't there and they were. etc.

If a policeman is accused of brutality or harrasment, bodycam footage would be pretty irrelevant
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Yes and they shouldn't be allowed to turn them off.

Police should have enough training and logical skills to be trusted. Putting a body camera on should only be put on in certain situations.

DifferentialEquation posted...

No. It's a waste of money and if I want to know what happened in a particular incident then I'll just read or listen to the police officer's account of what happened.

Lmao. I know you are trolling but you still annoying af
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DifferentialEquation posted...

No. It's a waste of money and if I want to know what happened in a particular incident then I'll just read or listen to the police officer's account of what happened.

Oh good lord...
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Funkydog posted...

RebelElite791 posted...

Win for cops and win for citizens. Absolutely no valid argument against it as long as they dont mysteriously malfunction or switch off during an incident.

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Sada_Pop posted...

Funkydog posted...

RebelElite791 posted...

Win for cops and win for citizens. Absolutely no valid argument against it as long as they dont mysteriously malfunction or switch off during an incident.

Except for all the valid arguments that have been raised and you ignored.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

If a policeman is accused of brutality or harrasment, bodycam footage would be pretty irrelevant

I'll take stupid shit people say for 100, Alex.
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No.
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DirkDiggles posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

If a policeman is accused of brutality or harrasment, bodycam footage would be pretty irrelevant

I'll take stupid shit people say for 100, Alex.

"This is what the reseach has concluded."

"That's what stupid people say because I don't like it!"


Good luck with that.

Do note nobody has actually refuted a single point. They've just quoted one line and then insulted everyone.

Again says it all right there.
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Of course, recent cases have me wonder if it will help. Even with videos they seem to get off.
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Sir Will posted...

Of course, recent cases have me wonder if it will help. Even with videos they seem to get off.

So admit it's useless in court.

And purposefully childishly ignore the fact it causes increased violence and makes police harsher on minor offenses while distancing themselves from communities.

But still want to spends millions of my dollars to do it?

That's what your worldview means to you, so much so that you treat it like a religion and show scorn and disdain for more intelligent people making valid points that harm it?
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