Board 8 > Trdl answers any questions about Magic the Gathering

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trdl23 posted...

Waluigi1 posted...

trdl23 posted...

One thing to remember is that Commander is 40% Magic and 60% Politics. Your words are often more important than your cards

What is that though?

Commander is typically a free-for-all format, usually with 4 players. Therefore, you have a lot of people each trying to win against everyone else. Alliances, backstabbing, and deals are as much a part of the game as casting spells and attacking with creatures.

Ah ok, gotcha. Sounds fun though lol
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Up
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If I were to enter a modern tournament, do I need to have a 15 card side board to make it legal?
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Commander is the best game type if you play with tryhards and don't wanna tryhard.

Otherwise I'll take normal mtg as better.
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LOLIAmAnAlt posted...

If I were to enter a modern tournament, do I need to have a 15 card side board to make it legal?

Can't see a reason you would need a sideboard, pretty sure it's not a requirement.
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pjbasis posted...

LOLIAmAnAlt posted...

If I were to enter a modern tournament, do I need to have a 15 card side board to make it legal?

Can't see a reason you would need a sideboard, pretty sure it's not a requirement.

Your sideboard can have up to 15 cards. You are allowed to have no sideboard.

That being said, you will probably get your ass thoroughly kicked without a sideboard.
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trdl23 posted...

pjbasis posted...

LOLIAmAnAlt posted...

If I were to enter a modern tournament, do I need to have a 15 card side board to make it legal?

Can't see a reason you would need a sideboard, pretty sure it's not a requirement.

Your sideboard can have up to 15 cards. You are allowed to have no sideboard.

That being said, you will probably get your ass thoroughly kicked without a sideboard.

That's fine, I dont have time to make a sideboard tonight and the thing is tomorrow.
Just making sure I can enter!
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What formats (standard, modern, etc) do you like the most, and what is the general range in cost of deck building
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LOLIAmAnAlt posted...

trdl23 posted...

pjbasis posted...

LOLIAmAnAlt posted...

If I were to enter a modern tournament, do I need to have a 15 card side board to make it legal?

Can't see a reason you would need a sideboard, pretty sure it's not a requirement.

Your sideboard can have up to 15 cards. You are allowed to have no sideboard.

That being said, you will probably get your ass thoroughly kicked without a sideboard.

That's fine, I dont have time to make a sideboard tonight and the thing is tomorrow.
Just making sure I can enter!

Sideboards are fun.

My favorite sideboard I've ever had was:
x4 Show And Tell
x3 Emrakul
x4 Painter's Servant
x4 Grindstone

Randomly morphing into a combo deck catches so many people off-guard.
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I love me some transformational sideboards.

banananor posted...

What formats (standard, modern, etc) do you like the most, and what is the general range in cost of deck building

Well, I like Draft more than anything, and that's typically $13-$15 a pop (but you get to keep the cards of course!)

As far as Constructed formats go, I like Legacy most due to the sheer depth of viable decks and high skill ceilings for any deck except Show and Tell or Charbelcher. However, it is prohibitively expensive. Unless you're playing mono-Red burn -- which is still a real deck btw -- the cheapest "real" deck, Manaless Dredge, will run you about $250, but that deck is firmly mediocre. Most decks in the format cost at least $1K because the Reserved List is a thing, meaning most of the format staples are prohibited from ever being reprinted.


Modern is a love-hate relationship for me. I really enjoy the decks I play, and I respect a lot of other decks like Jund, but some decks are just so obnoxious that they frustrate the hell out of me. The main problem with Modern is that it has some Legacy-level threats without Legacy-level answers. There's no viable Control deck in Modern; the king of Midrange, Jund, is effectively the control deck of the meta. Anyway, my favorite deck, Elves, is about $750, but you can skimp on the expensive lands and make it for about $350-400 if you wanted.

Thankfully, Modern and Legacy are pretty safe investments value-wise; if you decide to get out of the deck or the format, it's relatively easy to sell your cards/decks and recoup most of your investment.

I've stopped following Standard very much, so I couldn't tell you how that is right now. I know the bans have thrown a lot of things for a loop.
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Up
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Top 10 most expensive cards you own. Don't count 4 of 1 card as 4 spots.
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What is your favorite "bad" card?
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trdl23 posted...

I love me some transformational sideboards.

Let me tell you about my favorite modern deck that I almost won a PTQ with once.

It was a Pyromancer Ascension brew that was a control/combo deck. Blue, white, red. It wasn't a fast storm deck like most Pyromancer decks (I played this deck before storm was really ever played, I think [it was before Deathrite Shaman came out and broke the deck in half]).

4 Bolt, 4 Lightning Helix, 4 Path, 4 Snapcaster. Every single one mana blue cantrip. 4 Manamorphose. 8 counterspells, including Remand. Possibly some Cryptic Commands? The deck would get counters on Pyromancer Ascension in a hurry while grinding opponents out with the 12 maindeck removal spells. It was great against creature decks and pretty good against combo decks with the counter suite. After you get an active Pyromancer Ascension, you chain cantrips and Manamorphose into killing people with bolts, sort of like U/R storm but you were a lot slower with a lot more resilience. Isochron Sceptor x2 as a backup plan because it could just beat decks on Helix or Path, or draw you cards forever.

It was really fun and really pretty bad against a lot of decks in game 2 and 3 after they boarded in their hate. BUT! I boarded in 4 Delver, 4 Kiln Fiend and 3 V. Cliques (Cliques may have actually been maindeck, on second thought) against most opponents and changed into a weird sort of aggro-combo creature deck after they'd take out every removal spell they had and beat face in game 2. This deck was the most fun I ever had boarding in a magic tournament.

I ended up drawing in the very last round of swiss against a U/B/W Gifts control deck. I showed him my hand during extra turns and explain that I would win if we had more time, since I knew what his hand was and I had some kind of counterspells to stop him from casting his threats to put a clock on me, and I had some creatures in play. He tutored for some white spell on the first turn of time to gain like 8 or 11 life, which made it so I wouldn't be able to finish him off before our 5 turns of time, but assured that he would not be able to beat me since he was playing to not lose instead of playing to kill me. We ended up drawing out of top cut, lol, still a little salty about that. We both ended up in like 12th and 13th place, a win would have put one of us in.


How do you feel about that deck? Would a deck like this be playable in modern today?
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TomNook posted...

Top 10 most expensive cards you own. Don't count 4 of 1 card as 4 spots.

Just a quick glance through my stuff...

1. Revised Underground Sea
2. Chinese Foil Flooded Strand (KTK)
3. Lion's Eye Diamond
4. Judge Promo Dark Confidant
5. Zendikar Expedition Ancient Tomb
6. Zendikar Expedition Horizon Canopy
7. Signed Alliance Force of Will
8. MM2 Tarmogoyf
9. Kaladesh Invention Sword of Feast and Famine
10. RPTQ Snapcaster Mage

I used to have some super big ones (Mox Ruby, Volcanic Island, etc.) but had to sell them for tuition. Since then, I've focused my efforts on my Cube, so it's been a quantity-over-quality thing in terms of expenses.
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MajinZidane posted...

trdl23 posted...

I love me some transformational sideboards.

Let me tell you about my favorite modern deck that I almost won a PTQ with once.

It was a Pyromancer Ascension brew that was a control/combo deck. Blue, white, red. It wasn't a fast storm deck like most Pyromancer decks (I played this deck before storm was really ever played, I think [it was before Deathrite Shaman came out and broke the deck in half]).

4 Bolt, 4 Lightning Helix, 4 Path, 4 Snapcaster. Every single one mana blue cantrip. 4 Manamorphose. 8 counterspells, including Remand. Possibly some Cryptic Commands? The deck would get counters on Pyromancer Ascension in a hurry while grinding opponents out with the 12 maindeck removal spells. It was great against creature decks and pretty good against combo decks with the counter suite. After you get an active Pyromancer Ascension, you chain cantrips and Manamorphose into killing people with bolts, sort of like U/R storm but you were a lot slower with a lot more resilience. Isochron Sceptor x2 as a backup plan because it could just beat decks on Helix or Path, or draw you cards forever.

It was really fun and really pretty bad against a lot of decks in game 2 and 3 after they boarded in their hate. BUT! I boarded in 4 Delver, 4 Kiln Fiend and 3 V. Cliques (Cliques may have actually been maindeck, on second thought) against most opponents and changed into a weird sort of aggro-combo creature deck after they'd take out every removal spell they had and beat face in game 2. This deck was the most fun I ever had boarding in a magic tournament.

I ended up drawing in the very last round of swiss against a U/B/W Gifts control deck. I showed him my hand during extra turns and explain that I would win if we had more time, since I knew what his hand was and I had some kind of counterspells to stop him from casting his threats to put a clock on me, and I had some creatures in play. He tutored for some white spell on the first turn of time to gain like 8 or 11 life, which made it so I wouldn't be able to finish him off before our 5 turns of time, but assured that he would not be able to beat me since he was playing to not lose instead of playing to kill me. We ended up drawing out of top cut, lol, still a little salty about that. We both ended up in like 12th and 13th place, a win would have put one of us in.


How do you feel about that deck? Would a deck like this be playable in modern today?

That deck is sick!

Unfortunately, no, I don't think this would work. Blue is really bad right now in Modern -- decks like Jund and Death's Shadow play 8 one-mana discard spells that really preclude Blue from doing what it wants to do in a grindy matchup. Plus, Fatal Push and the ever-present Bolt make it hard to small threats like out of your sideboard. Finally, there's Rest in Peace... yeah.

It's really too bad. I love Isochron Scepter.
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aw, man.

So should I ever play modern again? or magic at all
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Part of the problem is that Lightning Bolt, and damage-based removal in general, is somehow at an all-time low in terms of playability.
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trdl23 posted...

the Reserved List is a thing, meaning most of the format staples are prohibited from ever being reprinted.

What does this mean exactly?
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It means something really stupid
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Basically there's certain cards wizards won't reprint because apparently collectors don't want to have their value ruined by printed new cards or cards that are functional reprints. Most of the cards are pretty bad anyway, but then you have stuff like the Alpha/Beta Duals, Gaea's Cradle, Serra Sanctum, and all the Power Cards. It's a dumb policy imo.
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I can see both sides. On one hand, stuff like the power cards can reach thousands of dollars. That is a tough pill to swallow. But on the other hand, investing in cards for value is no different than buying stocks, really. So I'm not sure if the value part of it should offset the inherent risk in doing such a thing in the first place.
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That's gross... It reminds me of how on like League of Legends, there are certain old skins that they'll never release again because the original owners of them would complain and get their feelings hurt or something. At least with cards, you can still get used and resale later and get money back.
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It's a bit more complicated than that, guys.

In the early years of Magic, back when it was as much a collector's thing as a game, there were of course a bunch of super popular cards with pretty high price tags. Some of the sets that contained those cards had been very low print rates, so people had a hard time finding them, especially if they had only just recently started to play. WotC decided that the best way to get those cards into the hands of these new players (and to make a quick buck) was to make a set entirely of reprints called Chronicles that contained a bunch of these sweet cards. Elder Dragons, old artifact block stuff, whatever, Chronicles had a bunch of them.

Wizards printed a metric shitload of Chronicles, and the result was disastrous. Card prices tanked overnight. Some collectors -- and more importantly, stores -- saw the value of their inventories nosedive. Remember, this was an era before close collaboration between WotC and its distributors, so many of them were taken by surprise. Older players' investments also depreciated and made them lose faith in Wizards. Basically, customers were out for blood, and Magic faced what remains the greatest crisis to ever meet the game.

To restore the faith of their customers, Wizards offered to make a Reserved List, which called out specific cards that Wizards vowed never to reprint, thus ensuring their value. The move probably saved the game at the time, and they continued to add to the list as more sets came out with iconic, powerful, and valuable cards of their own. They finally realized they were painting themselves into a corner and stopped adding to the list in Masquerade Block.

Unfortunately, the RL is a big reason why it's so damn expensive to get into Eternal formats like Legacy and Vintage. There is a finite supply of format staples (dual lands, Mishra's Workshop, etc.) but ever-increasing demand. In addition, Magic has no SEC like stocks do, so some bad actors can orchestrate a buyout of a card, sharply raising its price, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Many both within and without of Wizards want to abolish the RL -- Mark Rosewater being one of the largest profiles of it -- but the list has held for so long that it can legally be interpreted as a contract between Wizards and its stakeholders. Any attempt to break it could be litigated as breach of contract and subjected not just to stiff financial penalties but also injunctions, ruining the point in the first place. Even if it didn't, Wizards/Hasbro would be paying legal fees for months if not years, which is a huge money pit even if the ruling is in their favor.
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trdl23 posted...

but the list has held for so long that it can legally be interpreted as a contract between Wizards and its stakeholders. Any attempt to break it could be litigated as breach of contract and subjected not just to stiff financial penalties but also injunctions, ruining the point in the first place.

Is this something that has been cited by Wizards themselves and/or real lawyers, or is this a theory concocted and spread by "internet lawyers?"
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redrocket_pub posted...

trdl23 posted...

but the list has held for so long that it can legally be interpreted as a contract between Wizards and its stakeholders. Any attempt to break it could be litigated as breach of contract and subjected not just to stiff financial penalties but also injunctions, ruining the point in the first place.

Is this something that has been cited by Wizards themselves and/or real lawyers, or is this a theory concocted and spread by "internet lawyers?"

It's something I've discussed with my local L3 who is, in fact, an IRL lawyer.
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redrocket_pub posted...

trdl23 posted...

but the list has held for so long that it can legally be interpreted as a contract between Wizards and its stakeholders. Any attempt to break it could be litigated as breach of contract and subjected not just to stiff financial penalties but also injunctions, ruining the point in the first place.

Is this something that has been cited by Wizards themselves and/or real lawyers, or is this a theory concocted and spread by "internet lawyers?"

This just sounds ridiculous and a little hard to believe... At this point in time it seems way more unhealthy to continue having the Reserved List than reprint the cards in a very limited form. Is this why the from the vault collections are so hard to come by? So they don't reprint too many cards and piss people off again?
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Having a strong secondary market is important for a game staying alive. Look at all the games that come and go, and despite good game mechanics, die to dumb decisions the company makes, often because of excessive reprinting.

Sure, reprinting sounds nice to someone who is purely a player. But the game companies don't sell directly to players; they sell to stores/distributors. Stores and distributors often overlap as investors because they want to make as much money as they can. If a store who dumps a bunch of money into a company's product feels like that product will randomly become worthless in an instant, they'll choose another product to invest in instead of some kind of unstable market. It doesn't matter how much a player who buys $100 worth of product a month likes the reprints, the stores who spend more than $50,000 a month decides.
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^^Tom gets it. Keep in mind I've been on the store-side of this; I created and ran the gaming section of a local comic store for a two years while I was in college. Magic's relative stability in the secondary market is what makes it thrive compared to the "fad" games like Force of Will, Vanguard, and also the "LCGs" that Fantasy Flight uses.

Magic is both a game and an investment. Without stores selling Magic, the game dies. Without faith in the stability of Magic as an investment, the stores buy something else.

Don't get me wrong -- I HATE the Reserved List, especially now that the Masters sets have proven WotC can make reprint sets and not fuck everything up. But there seems to be no legal way around it that wouldn't cost a couple of limbs in litigation.
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How can there be legal issues with the reprints if the cards are property of WotC and the promise was just pr from a company to the general public without a written contract or something like that?
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Waluigi1 posted...

How can there be legal issues with the reprints if the cards are property of WotC and the promise was just pr from a company to the general public without a written contract or something like that?

The promise is very much NOT "just PR from the company." WotC wrote the promise ("offer"), distributors and stores agreed that it would be acceptable for them ("acceptance"), and those stores have staked large financial claims against the promise while WotC has held true to it ("consideration"). That's a de facto contract right there. A contract doesn't have to be a 500-page document with the word CONTRACT in big bold letters at the top, especially under a Common Law system like we have here in the US. There's a strong legal case that the RL is a contract based on the terms of the agreement and the actions of all parties in accordance with that agreement.

Tl;dr Turns out legal matters aren't very simple or even intuitive sometimes.
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Hm, sounds like they just done fucked up then lol
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Up
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Last up unless anyone else has something
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worst ravnica guild?
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also, do you think mythic rares are overall good for the game
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banananor posted...

worst ravnica guild?

Gruul, easily. There's no real depth to them. They just say "nature savage, nature good, city bad, want to fight and eat." Which I guess is the point, but it's so cliche, pointless, and boring.

banananor posted...

also, do you think mythic rares are overall good for the game

100% yes. Mythics actually reduced the price of an average Standard deck by virtue of making normal rares more plentiful. But more importantly, Mythics allow for Wizards to print powerful cards like Planeswalkers while not throwing Limited under the bus.

As an example, look at Drana from Rise of the Eldrazi and Glorybringer from Amonkhet. These are cards that should definitely exist, but at normal rarity, their absurd power level warps the format around them. They needed to be Mythics so you wouldn't have to deal with one (or multiple) so often in draft, but WotC put them at rare and thus skewed the formats to favor their colors based on these cards alone. Bombs are inevitable, but super-bombs like them should be the exception in Limited, not the norm.
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Ruric Thar is gonna come to your house and do 6 damage to you, you mean boy you.
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anyone else?
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Best Ravnica guild
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i'll agree that i found the flavor of gruul the least interesting by far. i guess i sort of appreciated it for making everyone else feel cooler. boros even kinda beat it at its own game

i think simic disappointed me the most. coolest flavor, but nothing about it ever really gelled for me mechanically
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I've got a question that probably doesn't have a simple answer.

I'm looking to build (very slowly) enjoyable monocolor decks for each color in Commander. I've got a monowhite Angel deck which is a lot of fun. It's got a few alt win conditions and it consistently just sits around and plays for 2nd place.

My next deck I was thinking about building was a Talrund, Sky Summoner monoblue deck built on just countering everything and getting Drakes. Any suggestions for cards that I should use to beef up that sort of deck?
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Counters, Card Draw, and Bounce, what more do you need? Maybe some equipment like lightning greaves to protect Talrand.

Other cool cards are Inundate, Illusionist's Gambit and Docent of Perfection for a redundant Talrand.
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Do you have any special thoughts for the card "Wild Pair"? It's one of my favs, I run it in a weird red/green stall deck with the only creatures being 4 dragon broodmother and 4 scourge of valkas, the rest being mana ramp, burn, and wild pairs
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Selesnya for life! It made me love green/white the most out of all combinations. And I love making tokens and then buffing the fuck out of them and running over people with my army.
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redrocket_pub posted...

Best Ravnica guild

Orzhov baby! Wealth and faith are two primary means of power, and if you have control over those, you can direct your ambitions where you want them to go with confidence.

"But that's an evil guild!" No, no it isn't. There are plenty of evil people within the guild, but I prefer to follow Teysa Karlov's philosophy. Namely, "We can be so much more." Power isn't an end, it's a means. The world isn't a commodity to be bought and sold, it's a vibrant, complex project with so many opportunities to improve. But wealth and faith are two primary ways of shaping the world the way I want to shape it. So I will.

scarletspeed7 posted...

I've got a question that probably doesn't have a simple answer.

I'm looking to build (very slowly) enjoyable monocolor decks for each color in Commander. I've got a monowhite Angel deck which is a lot of fun. It's got a few alt win conditions and it consistently just sits around and plays for 2nd place.

My next deck I was thinking about building was a Talrund, Sky Summoner monoblue deck built on just countering everything and getting Drakes. Any suggestions for cards that I should use to beef up that sort of deck?

Ugh. I've seen this deck so many damn times. They all just kind of blur together.

Basically what Logicblade said. If this is the route you're going with Talrand, there's not much room for creativity or innovation. Counters, card draw, bounce, maybe a few blue "kill spells" like Rapid Hybridization or Reality Shift.

Emeraldegg posted...

Do you have any special thoughts for the card "Wild Pair"? It's one of my favs, I run it in a weird red/green stall deck with the only creatures being 4 dragon broodmother and 4 scourge of valkas, the rest being mana ramp, burn, and wild pairs

"Eh." It's a card to build decks around, but it's not particularly impressive when your 6-drop does absolutely nothing when you cast it. Your deck would probably be better off just going a full dragon-deck route and be more fun as well. Wild Pair goes well in a commander deck though when you're trying to spam dudes because that's a format where you can get away with 6-mana do-nothings.
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Favourite Tarkir Clan?
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Logicblade posted...

Favourite Tarkir Clan?

The Abzan. Even before they revealed Siege Rhino. Irish roots, so devotion to family and clan is a big part of my life.
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trdl23 posted...

Ugh. I've seen this deck so many damn times. They all just kind of blur together.

Basically what Logicblade said. If this is the route you're going with Talrand, there's not much room for creativity or innovation. Counters, card draw, bounce, maybe a few blue "kill spells" like Rapid Hybridization or Reality Shift.

Unfortunately I need to build a monoblue on the cheap and this is my option.
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There are always ways around it. Try Sakashima the Impostor. Copy copy copy copy copy
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