Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Mega Man X, Sephiroth, Yuna and Ifrit vs. Zeratul, D.Va, Fetch and Elma

(+) Yeah! (+)

KJH posted...

I'm still kinda interested based off this talk with Dva's ult, do people actually think her ult works 1:1 with the gameplay? Like, in a cutscene setting, what part of her shooting things with guns makes her mech capable of self-destructing?

I always felt like most super moves are just a thing a character usually can pull out. Like how Dissidia turns their realtime interpretation of FF characters into guys who use limit breaks as regular moves.

If you want to take it at complete cutscene value, then that just raises the question of friendly fire from it even more. In fact D.Va herself was able to be killed by her own ult in gameplay before they changed it for balance reasons. There's nowhere for anyone to hide here, so would she use it and risk killing herself and teammates?

And that doesn't address the issue of it being enough to damage X or Sephiroth.

Eddv posted...

I wish i could say im consistent with this but im not. It depends on the flavor of the ability.

In flavor there really isnt much reason D Va couldn't go NERF THIS whenever she wants aside from her being on foot generally being a bad idea vs Trance for Zidane for instance being more mercurial.

Trance is an exception because it's not just a gameplay construct -- the plot is clear that it's triggered by STRONG EMOTIONS (and we see it multiple times, like Vivi flipping out about the black mages and instantly going Trance). Most limits/etc. don't have that.
---

It varies for me. If it makes sense as something that needs built up to, like a lot of fighting game stuff, I still see them needing to build up to it

Dva's mech self-destructing is one of those things that doesn't make sense to me as needing to be built up to because... It's just a self-destruct.
---

dont get me started on trance you jerks
---

Yeah I agree she can just use it pretty much at will if she has her wits about her, but I'd also argue due to the time it takes to explode, Ifrit could literally just throw it back at her.
---

I looked it up, and it does 1000 damage, meaning that Roadhog or D.Va with a Sound Barrier could survive it. I buy X and Elma being tankier than that.

There's also the problem that if D.Va goes for the self destruct right away, X won't be caught in it. Then X cleans up whoever from Elma's team survived it. I don't buy D.Va's team magically having immunity to it like in game, so she's going to kill both teams equally if she uses it.
---

Mewtwo59 posted...

I don't buy D.Va's team magically having immunity to it like in game, so she's going to kill both teams equally if she uses it.

Seems dumb to me
---

If the Arena was bigger and they weren't affected by terror and low morale I could definitely see D'Va's ult and Fetch's singularity comboing absolutely beautifully though, so this combo's one to watch for in the future.
---

Friendly fire is always a thing in mercs.

It's all about whether you think the merc in question has the personality to team kill for THE GREATER GOOD.
---

I think that, as a trump card D Va could totally self destruct - its just a matter of whether Fetch would go incorporeal or whether literally anyone but Elma would survive it etc.

Basically I wouldn't have made it my first argument - and I didn't- but it certainly is in my teams arsenal and if KP thinks that tips it that is as valid as MW's very harsh interp of the word "terrify"
---

I don't think self-destruct will be THAT effective, and if it is then MMX shows up and cleans up
---

So we've established that KamikazePotato is making an absurd claim with D.Va, right?

I think we've established that being a dick doesn't really warm people to wanting to vote for you, atleast
---

Hes making a claim he believes but he even caveated that he probably votes the same way even without it.
---

It's just that I've been talked out of forfeiting this match like 5 times because it's been such a fucking disaster. I'm kind of out of patience.

"mercs"
---

Voters are going to come in with their own pre-conceived notions of how things go, and if you don't hit on something that convinces them otherwise, they'll vote based on those notions.

If that's upsetting you, Mercs probably isn't for you.

I learned it wasn't for me after one match!
---

I don't view DVA's ult as hurting her teammates so yeah it's pretty OP in a small arena
---

KamikazePotato posted...

I don't view DVA's ult as hurting her teammates

wait what
---

it's an explosion, why wouldn't it hurt them
---

Doesn't hurt them in Overwatch
---

...Okay, that's a little silly
---

that seems game mechanics-y to me, like shooting Sarge in the head with a sniper rifle doesn't hurt him in Halo
---

Well fine then, I am going to follow KP's logic (but correctly) and say that if DVA NERFS THIS everyone explodes

then I think when Heroic Timing X shows up he's going to have all the health necessary to win
---

Team
---

So this match is very close I think. It's hard to say who really wins it, so gonna try to break down my thoughts on paper and see where it takes me.

-Yuna is dead. Like super dead. She and X will not be sharing time together this week. This match is about whether X and Seph can DUO or not, really.
-Morale hit and TER ROR are of varying impact according to the merc. I think it doesn't do almost anything to Zeratul, Fetch just gets pissed and fights like normal (maybe a little worse than normal due to lessened morale), and D.Va and Elma are stunned for a bit - think a couple seconds or so, not a lot.
-Seph can absolutely survive until X arrives. Blinkspam too strong yo
-Seph killing anybody in those 15 secs is a bit more questionable. While he has lots of AoE, and I think he'd use it, his enemies are all very tanky - and stopping to cast means exposing himself to D.Va and the Verus Cain's guns, and more importantly, to Zeratul's Singularity Spikes, which nearly halve his speed.
-X is a powerhouse here. He completely wrecks D.Va if Seph hasn't done it himself by the time he gets there, and probably takes one of Zeratul or Fetch down too. Elma is a very scary proposition though.
-It's possible Seph could assassinate Elma inside her Skell by teleporting in. Would he do that though? The risk of telefrag is high.

Overall, I feel like this situation favors Team Elma, if only by the slimmest of margins. They have the tankiest merc in the match in a situation where everybody's liable to take some strong licks, and a lot of useful moves to control their enemies. It's not gonna be easy and it's not gonna be clean, but in the end I think one of their number will be the last one standing.
---

Something poetic about the person telling me not to forfeit and that I'll probably win this dropping the hammer vote for me to lose.

Good lord this was a marathon. Lets never do this again skyridge.

Glad of the win though but in a battle like these were all losers.
---

Eddv posted...

were all losers

tagline
---

Skyridge87 posted...

Something poetic about the person telling me not to forfeit and that I'll probably win this dropping the hammer vote for me to lose.

I really didn't enjoy doing this - there's a reason I abstained from voting until it was hammer time.

PS

@MajinZidane
@ScareChan
@Johnbobb
@redrocket_pub
@greengravy294
@Tom_Bombadil

Please do show up to vote in Group 1 matches. This isn't the first time we've had matches with nonexistent votals, and we kinda can't really keep the 'no intra-pool voting' rule if it means matches start going to admin decision en masse. :(
---

@eaedwards6400

Obviously it wouldnt have been super appropriate to vote in this one but he should see that plea too.
---

KanzarisKelshen posted...

So this match is very close I think. It's hard to say who really wins it, so gonna try to break down my thoughts on paper and see where it takes me.

-Yuna is dead. Like super dead. She and X will not be sharing time together this week. This match is about whether X and Seph can DUO or not, really.
-Morale hit and TER ROR are of varying impact according to the merc. I think it doesn't do almost anything to Zeratul, Fetch just gets pissed and fights like normal (maybe a little worse than normal due to lessened morale), and D.Va and Elma are stunned for a bit - think a couple seconds or so, not a lot.
-Seph can absolutely survive until X arrives. Blinkspam too strong yo
-Seph killing anybody in those 15 secs is a bit more questionable. While he has lots of AoE, and I think he'd use it, his enemies are all very tanky - and stopping to cast means exposing himself to D.Va and the Verus Cain's guns, and more importantly, to Zeratul's Singularity Spikes, which nearly halve his speed.
-X is a powerhouse here. He completely wrecks D.Va if Seph hasn't done it himself by the time he gets there, and probably takes one of Zeratul or Fetch down too. Elma is a very scary proposition though.
-It's possible Seph could assassinate Elma inside her Skell by teleporting in. Would he do that though? The risk of telefrag is high.

Overall, I feel like this situation favors Team Elma, if only by the slimmest of margins. They have the tankiest merc in the match in a situation where everybody's liable to take some strong licks, and a lot of useful moves to control their enemies. It's not gonna be easy and it's not gonna be clean, but in the end I think one of their number will be the last one standing.

Just wanna point out how he thinks Seph blink spam is so strong yet had bass beating him. Inconsistency.
---

Just wanna point out how he thinks Seph blink spam is so strong yet had bass beating him. Inconsistency.

Blink spam helps you not get hit, but it doesn't win you fights when you have to go and actually hit someone yourself. No real inconsistency there. >_>
---

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Just wanna point out how he thinks Seph blink spam is so strong yet had bass beating him. Inconsistency.

Blink spam helps you not get hit, but it doesn't win you fights when you have to go and actually hit someone yourself. No real inconsistency there. >_>

Someone who shoots projectiles versus someone who has "blink spam that helps you not get hit" in a terrain you know and the enemy does not. It is a clear inconsistency. It is like half of you just reach in your pockets to see what random argument you are gonna make today.
---

You do realize I voted against Sephiroth in both matches, right

like that's nothing if not consistent, I can respect a character and still think they don't win a given fight
---

KanzarisKelshen posted...

You do realize I voted against Sephiroth in both matches, right

like that's nothing if not consistent, I can respect a character and still think they don't win a given fight

Your vote is irrelevant. It is your arguments which have been called into question. They do not line up.
---

zeratool

I tried really hard to figure out who would win this match, fwiw. Posted in here and in chat and some PM. In my head, if this fight happens 100 times then if it's not 50/50, it's 51/49. Sorry for the non-vote.
---

For what it's worth, Skyridge, had I beaten Kanz to the punch you would've won.
---

Yeah, I ended up abstaining because I felt it was too close to call, but I do think fighting it out was the right decision. Tough match.
---

It was a damn close match.
---

trdl23 posted...

For what it's worth, Skyridge, had I beaten Kanz to the punch you would've won.

This would make me feel 100% worse as a leader.
---

I would have voted for team seph but it wasn't a slam dunk.
---

FFDragon posted...

trdl23 posted...

For what it's worth, Skyridge, had I beaten Kanz to the punch you would've won.

This would make me feel 100% worse as a leader.

Well I was super torn and was only going to vote as a tiebreaker. But yeah, I missed the opportunity, and I kinda feel bad.
---

I think team zeratul would have won but i had bias of seph vs 5 dudes for obv reasons........so yeah
---

I also echo that the match was really close, I told Boko as much.

I just thought KP's logic was disastrous, so I just took his scenario and fixed it.
---