Current Events > Why do people give Japan so much shit for being so xenophobic?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I get by today's standards it looks ridiculous but think back to the age of European colonization, look at how their Southeast Asian brothers were colonized and treated by foreigners, is it really so hard to get why "stranger danger" is engrained in their culture?
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you do realize japan used to be colonial too right.
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ZombiePelican posted...

by today's standards

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DarkChozoGhost posted...

ZombiePelican posted...

by today's standards

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Because it's weird when you're over there and the 5'4" hostess is X'ing you out of the restaurant and you don't know if it's because they're closing or because you're white.

Also, the colonial crap kind of ended... like a while ago.

I don't get why anyone cares. them being xenophobic doesn't hurt anybody.
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Goddamn gaijins.
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G_G posted...

you do realize japan used to be colonial too right.

Are you referring to the American occupation of Japan after WW2?
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ZombiePelican posted...

look at how their Southeast Asian brothers were colonized and treated by foreigners

How well did the Japanese treat their southeast Asian brothers?
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MakoReizei posted...

ZombiePelican posted...

look at how their Southeast Asian brothers were colonized and treated by foreigners

How well did the Japanese treat their southeast Asian brothers?

Everyone was comfortable, except for the women.
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Honestly, I think most people are just using Japan to get away without saying their real intentions since Japan is one of, probably the least xenophobic Asian country.
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Stupid americans always holding other countries to their standards and to think like them.
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Because of crab mentality. "My nation experiences terrorist attaches frequently. Why can't Japan have them too?! Dx"
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There's probably some truth to it but I think some of it is also just American propaganda talk that overstates how bad it is. Americans call Japan and other Asian countries xenophobic to make themselves look better.
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MakoReizei posted...

I don't get why anyone cares. them being xenophobic doesn't hurt anybody.

Weeaboos can't handle unrequited love.

It just the weeabbos who want to live there but cant

Isn't this just a liberal thing? does anyone honestly care if a country protects its own other than liberals?

Milkman5 posted...

Isn't this just a liberal thing? does anyone honestly care if a country protects its own other than liberals?

What isn't a liberal thing these days?

ZombiePelican posted...

G_G posted...

you do realize japan used to be colonial too right.

Are you referring to the American occupation of Japan after WW2?

no im referring to what japan did in the russo-japanese war and all the territory they amassed DURING world war II
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I travelled to Japan a few years ago, I got harassed by some cops but that was about it.
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Why do weebs get so defensive when people call Japan out on their shit?

im a weeb too btw OP

i just dont like revisionist history
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@ZombiePelican
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G_G posted...

@ZombiePelican

What are you talking about?
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GiftedACIII posted...

Honestly, I think most people are just using Japan to get away without saying their real intentions since Japan is one of, probably the least xenophobic Asian country.

Singapore?
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DKFjalfe posted...

Why do weebs get so defensive when people call Japan out on their s***?

because they think glorious nippon is the paradise where all the girls in schoolgirl costumes will welcome them as gods.
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ZombiePelican posted...

G_G posted...

you do realize japan used to be colonial too right.

Are you referring to the American occupation of Japan after WW2?

Probably the part where Japan was the colonial scourge of East Asia.
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Gheb posted...

ZombiePelican posted...

G_G posted...

you do realize japan used to be colonial too right.

Are you referring to the American occupation of Japan after WW2?

Probably the part where Japan was the colonial scourge of East Asia.

yeah and i already said that. dude just ignored it
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GiftedACIII posted...

Honestly, I think most people are just using Japan to get away without saying their real intentions since Japan is one of, probably the least xenophobic Asian country.

I'm pretty sure Japan is having a crisis with their population shrinking and they aren't helping themselves by allowing foreigners to come in and help grow their population. It's really hard to see how they might be the least xenophobic Asian country.
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It's way more complex than that, actually. Initially, they were treated with suspicion, but welcome because of the technology they could offer them. After Japan developed arms manufacturing, things started to shift. By the Sengoku era, there were basically three main camps; Traditionalists who wanted to basically build a wall around Japan, The Imperial Court/Shogunate who wanted to exploit the foreigners advanced technology, and Restorationists who wanted to fully embrace the foreigners.

The Meiji Restoration came along when the Sat-Cho alliance ended like 16 generations of Tokugawa reign. At this point, they heavily embraced the West for one principle reason; they wanted to be treated as equals. After the Opium Wars completely hamstrung China and forced them to allow Western presence (mostly in Shanghai, but later encroaching inland with the lucrative Opium trade), Japan realized that the West would conquer anyone under the banner of 'educating the savages'. In response, the Japanese government decided to openly embrace foreigners.

They turned Edo into Tokyo and made it a 'modern city'. They recruited foreign experts and modeled many of their social institutes on foreign models (schools, military, etc). This included things such as marrying into scotch making families so their navy could be more like the English navy and teaching Samurai to ballroom dance The city was supposed to showcase how they had modernized and hopefully win them a seat at the fledgling international bargaining table. However, despite this, there was still little few foreigners taking up residence in Japan due to limitations. It's important to note that at this point, the Samurai were long gone and the romantic image of Japan we have today was heavily suppressed in favor of a system called Kokutai, which was heavily modeled on Neo-Confucian ideals of filial piety, honor, and the divine heritage of the Japanese people.

Next, of course, came Imperial Japan, which was much more foreign than it was 'Japanese' despite the importance of the Japanese Imperial Family and the Shinto ethos. Of course, this also meant a break from the west. Japan's initial successes were eventually overturned by the Americans, who occupied them for several years after and also encouraged the romantic 'Japanese Samurai' image that we know today. The American victory also completely hamstrung their military and, after the atomic bombs fell, Japan willingly signed away their rights to an offensive army and any sort of military power. This actually freed up all their resources and made them an economic super power in the 80's when they were on top of the electronics market; though that was doomed to end. Also worth note, General MacArthur actually received thousands of letters asking to father their children, because they admired him as a warrior.

It's also important to note that Japan's xenophobia is not entirely directed towards the West. Japan has had a tense and unfriendly relationship with both China and Korea. Despite initially befriending them in the early middle ages, Japan has had to fight off China at least twice (though, fight off might be too strong a word; a degree of good fortune and an idiotic decision by their opponents helped them in both cases). Overall, however, they are equally xenophobic of their neighbors (which was a principle point of Imperial Japan; they, like the Nazis, believed they were divinely chosen to rule their continent), and calling them 'brothers' is pretty much outright wrong.

Despite all this though, it doesn't really reflect the issues in Japan today. As many have mentioned, they face a dwindling population and their xenophobia is only hurting them more. As well, it is hurting their weak economy, that has never been the same as it was at it's height.

So you are right that they may have precedent for being mistrustful, but it's way more complex than you alluded and their is arguments for both sides.

Tmaster148 posted...

GiftedACIII posted...

Honestly, I think most people are just using Japan to get away without saying their real intentions since Japan is one of, probably the least xenophobic Asian country.

I'm pretty sure Japan is having a crisis with their population shrinking and they aren't helping themselves by allowing foreigners to come in and help grow their population. It's really hard to see how they might be the least xenophobic Asian country.

Uh, their population shrinking has little to do with opinion on foreigners. You serious? Most war torn shitholes and third world countries have no problem with population despite being the epitome of xenophobia. It's actually the other way around. Most developed countries have their population shrinking with increased education and focus on careers. https://www.forbes.com/global/2012/0507/current-events-population-declining-birth-rates-lee-kuan-yew.html
Countries like China even wish they had Japan's "problem". That's completely irrelevant.
Which Asian country do you believe is less xenophobic than Japan?
Not sure why you didn't list an example already.
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GiftedACIII posted...

Which Asian country do you believe is less xenophobic than Japan?

Xenophobia was literally a part of Kokutai (government mandated national character). It said that the Japanese were literally descended from Amaterasu, the sun goddess, and therefore divinely mandated to rule all of Asia. The rest were treated as inferiors.

In fact, during WWII they experimented on Manchurians and other Chinese to create bio-weapons. The soldiers that remain have shown little remorse, and they literally bred biological agents in people's blood and pumped it out of their still living victims. Operation 731 was basically an extermination camp for the East. I'm not sure where you are getting the 'no xenophobia' thing from.

Dash_Harber posted...

GiftedACIII posted...

Which Asian country do you believe is less xenophobic than Japan?

Xenophobia was literally a part of Kokutai (government mandated national character). It said that the Japanese were literally descended from Amaterasu, the sun goddess, and therefore divinely mandated to rule all of Asia. The rest were treated as inferiors.

In fact, during WWII they experimented on Manchurians and other Chinese to create bio-weapons. The soldiers that remain have shown little remorse, and they literally bred biological agents in people's blood and pumped it out of their still living victims. Operation 731 was basically an extermination camp for the East. I'm not sure where you are getting the 'no xenophobia' thing from.

I'm talking about modern day, obviously. And I never said no xenophobia. I said least xenophobic Asian country. I mean, you made out a long irrelevant post but still couldn't give me a counter-example
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GiftedACIII posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

GiftedACIII posted...

Which Asian country do you believe is less xenophobic than Japan?

Xenophobia was literally a part of Kokutai (government mandated national character). It said that the Japanese were literally descended from Amaterasu, the sun goddess, and therefore divinely mandated to rule all of Asia. The rest were treated as inferiors.

In fact, during WWII they experimented on Manchurians and other Chinese to create bio-weapons. The soldiers that remain have shown little remorse, and they literally bred biological agents in people's blood and pumped it out of their still living victims. Operation 731 was basically an extermination camp for the East. I'm not sure where you are getting the 'no xenophobia' thing from.

I'm talking about modern day, obviously. And I never said no xenophobia. I said least xenophobic Asian country.

It's a complicated matter because of all the things I mentioned before, but it's definitely difficult for a foreigner to be accepted in Japan, at least from all the research I've read, first hand experiences, and class I've taken on the place.

Tmaster148 posted...

I'm pretty sure Japan is having a crisis with their population shrinking

Isn't it already overpopulated in the cities? You can't grow forever
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Doe posted...

Isn't it already overpopulated in the cities?

There's more to Japan than the cities.

And you think people are gonna go to Japan so they can plop down in the middle of nowhere? Urbanization is a thing
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GiftedACIII posted...

Uh, their population shrinking has little to do with opinion on foreigners.

Japan has a population shrinking problem and their refusal to let foreigners in isn't helping them increase their population. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand. Them not wanting foreigners isn't a cause, but it's not a helpful solution.

Also I'm well aware populations do decline in countries once they get out of development phase, but Japan is going pretty extreme. Their work culture is what is really killing them and the government has been making attempts in getting young people together to create kids, but a lot of women in Japan are not going to drop their career to start a family.


Doe posted...

Tmaster148 posted...

I'm pretty sure Japan is having a crisis with their population shrinking

Isn't it already overpopulated in the cities? You can't grow forever

The issue is people in Japan aren't having sex and are not birthing new people. Japan is an island with a lot of mountains. Just because they have big populated cities, doesn't change the fact their population is on a huge decline and unless they do something about it, it will hurt them a lot in the future.
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Dash_Harber posted...

GiftedACIII posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

GiftedACIII posted...

Which Asian country do you believe is less xenophobic than Japan?

Xenophobia was literally a part of Kokutai (government mandated national character). It said that the Japanese were literally descended from Amaterasu, the sun goddess, and therefore divinely mandated to rule all of Asia. The rest were treated as inferiors.

In fact, during WWII they experimented on Manchurians and other Chinese to create bio-weapons. The soldiers that remain have shown little remorse, and they literally bred biological agents in people's blood and pumped it out of their still living victims. Operation 731 was basically an extermination camp for the East. I'm not sure where you are getting the 'no xenophobia' thing from.

I'm talking about modern day, obviously. And I never said no xenophobia. I said least xenophobic Asian country.

It's a complicated matter because of all the things I mentioned before, but it's definitely difficult for a foreigner to be accepted in Japan, at least from all the research I've read, first hand experiences, and class I've taken on the place.

All you're doing is proving my point here. You can only talk about Japan since that's the only thing most westerners know (likely due to Japan being the most westernized Asian nation, besides... maybe, what, South Korea?) despite the fact that what they have is standard, actually above standard fare for most of Asia. Which is my point. People use Japan as a scapegoat to hide/downplay what they're really trying to say, or they're actually too ignorant to know anything of Asia besides Japan.

Tmaster148 posted...

GiftedACIII posted...

Uh, their population shrinking has little to do with opinion on foreigners.

Japan has a population shrinking problem and their refusal to let foreigners in isn't helping them increase their population. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand. Them not wanting foreigners isn't a cause, but it's not a helpful solution.

Also I'm well aware populations do decline in countries once they get out of development phase, but Japan is going pretty extreme. Their work culture is what is really killing them and the government has been making attempts in getting young people together to create kids, but a lot of women in Japan are not going to drop their career to start a family.

You're deflecting and derailing the subject to talk about something completely irrelevant. Obviously, allowing foreigners in can help with their population problem but your initial claim was that Japan couldn't be the least xenophobic Asian country because they have a population problem which is just moronic. Population has nothing to with xenophobia (unless you want to say China and India are the least xenophobic countries in the world?) and your first response was a non-sequitur.
Again I ask you to find an Asian nation who is more accepting and tolerant of foreigners than Japan, which was the reason you responded to my post
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Milkman5 posted...

Isn't this just a liberal thing? does anyone honestly care if a country protects its own other than liberals?

I want to say something, but I don't want to generalize.

GiftedACIII posted...

You're deflecting and derailing the subject to talk about something completely irrelevant. Obviously, allowing foreigners in can help with their population problem but your initial claim was that Japan couldn't be the least xenophobic Asian country because they have a population problem which is just moronic. Population has nothing to with xenophobia (unless you want to say China and India are the least xenophobic countries in the world?) and your first response was a non-sequitur.
Again I ask you to find an Asian nation who is more accepting and tolerant of foreigners than Japan, which was the reason you responded to my post

I wasn't claiming they weren't the least xenophobic over the population problem solely. I was pointing out Japan doesn't like the idea of foreigner's helping grow their population when they are in need of population growth.

Maybe if you took the time to understand my orginal post I wouldn't have to clarify.

EDIT: Anyways Singapore is an Asia country that is very easy to immigrant to from what I can find.
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Tmaster148 posted...

GiftedACIII posted...

You're deflecting and derailing the subject to talk about something completely irrelevant. Obviously, allowing foreigners in can help with their population problem but your initial claim was that Japan couldn't be the least xenophobic Asian country because they have a population problem which is just moronic. Population has nothing to with xenophobia (unless you want to say China and India are the least xenophobic countries in the world?) and your first response was a non-sequitur.
Again I ask you to find an Asian nation who is more accepting and tolerant of foreigners than Japan, which was the reason you responded to my post

I wasn't claiming they weren't the least xenophobic over the population problem solely. I was pointing out Japan doesn't like the idea of foreigner's helping grow their population when they are in need of population growth.

Maybe if you took the time to understand my orginal post I wouldn't have to clarify.

And which Asian nation, or hell which nation period besides Germany and Sweden, like the idea of foreigners helping grow their population? It's not like any American, African country or Australia is keen on that either. Nor UK as can be seen by the majority support for Brexit. So your point, if you even really had one, other than to take a jab at the population problem, is still irrelevant. The other nations just happen not to have a population problem since the two are unrelated.

And finally, I was waiting to see if you would even list Singapore since that is considered the top tier Asian country. But that's one out of dozens of Asian nations. That still makes it one of the least xenophobic Asian countries.
Plus ease of immigration doesn't necessarily mean social acceptance
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Doe posted...

And you think people are gonna go to Japan so they can plop down in the middle of nowhere?

There's more to Japan than cities and the middle of nowhere.

Urbanization is a thing

Yes it is, I'm not sure what it has to do with your statement but it is a thing.

GiftedACIII posted...

All you're doing is proving my point here. You can only talk about Japan since that's the only thing most westerners know (likely due to Japan being the most westernized Asian nation, besides... maybe, what, South Korea?) despite the fact that what they have is standard, actually above standard fare for most of Asia. Which is my point. People use Japan as a scapegoat to hide/downplay what they're really trying to say, or they're actually too ignorant to know anything of Asia besides Japan.

No, you are deflecting. I talk about the history of xenophobia in Japan and your response is 'well, you don't know anything about any other Asian country', which is fucking bullshit. Other country's xenophobia (such as the three-way disdain between Korea, China, and Japan) doesn't mean that Japan can't be xenophobic. I'm not scapegoating and there is no point I'm trying to make, but you can't just pretend that it doesn't exist because ... frankly I'm not sure why you want to pretend that it's all made up; elitism, maybe? You seem to think everyone here doesn't know anything, I guess.

Dash_Harber posted...

GiftedACIII posted...

All you're doing is proving my point here. You can only talk about Japan since that's the only thing most westerners know (likely due to Japan being the most westernized Asian nation, besides... maybe, what, South Korea?) despite the fact that what they have is standard, actually above standard fare for most of Asia. Which is my point. People use Japan as a scapegoat to hide/downplay what they're really trying to say, or they're actually too ignorant to know anything of Asia besides Japan.

No, you are deflecting. I talk about the history of xenophobia in Japan and your response is 'well, you don't know anything about any other Asian country', which is fucking bullshit. Other country's xenophobia (such as the three-way disdain between Korea, China, and Japan) doesn't mean that Japan can't be xenophobic. I'm not scapegoating and there is no point I'm trying to make, but you can't just pretend that it doesn't exist because ... frankly I'm not sure why you want to pretend that it's all made up; elitism, maybe? You seem to think everyone here doesn't know anything, I guess.

I'm not sure if you're extremely drunk right now or if your reading comprehension is just this shit. Reread this topic. I never said Japan was not xenophobic. I asked which Asian country was less.
GiftedACIII posted...

Which Asian country do you believe is less xenophobic than Japan?

This was literally the ONLY thing you quoted from me and you went onto a completely unrelated tangent that had nothing to do with that.
I'm starting to believe you're almost as insane and seeing only what you want to see as Roxborough and Unfair.
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GiftedACIII posted...

I'm not sure if you're extremely drunk right now or if your reading comprehension is just this shit. Reread this topic. I never said Japan was not xenophobic. I asked which Asian country was less.

You are incredibly condescending and rude. I don't like talking to you, honestly.

Anyway, your 'argument' comes off as incredibly immature and off-topic; it basically boils down to the "Yeah, but X is worse so let's stop talking about it". That stacked on the other shit you've been saying (like claiming anyone who disagrees with you is just too uneducated about Asia) makes you very unlikable and come off as a complete condescending troll. I don't really have anything else to say to you, but I expect at least one or two more insults thrown my way instead of actually addressing what we are talking about; ego like yours and there is no way you'll let anyone else have the last word.

Dash_Harber posted...

Anyway, your 'argument' comes off as incredibly immature and off-topic; it basically boils down to the "Yeah, but X is worse so let's stop talking about it".

And where did I imply anything like that? Quote that post. I think the problem here is that you've already made up an argument against an opponent in your mind that you probably had in the past and projected that onto me. I called you uneducated because you were constantly dodging and not addressing the very post you quoted
GiftedACIII posted...

Which Asian country do you believe is less xenophobic than Japan?

You kept responding to that with Japan yadda yadda yadda which made it seem like that was the only thing you knew. Reread the topic (which I just did and had no idea I somehow accidentally put Darmik on ignore for no reason, must've been a misclick, my bad) and you can see how unreasonable your posts were. Honestly, I think you might've thought I was responding to you in post #31 (I wasn't),
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