Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Lady/Wesker/Scorpion vs. Lightning/Kyo/Damus/ Ansem/Alucard/Grigori

(+) Yeah! (+)

"just a human" doesn't mean anything in particular when she's shown with superhuman agility and speed

I would totally take Lady to 1v1 Grigori unless Grigori decided to 100% abuse his flight to stay out of her range and firebomb
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Drakeryn posted...

I would totally take Lady to 1v1 Grigori unless Grigori decided to 100% abuse his flight to stay out of her range and firebomb

Yeah absolutely agreed here. Lady would probably dunk on Grigori. I feel like Lady has merits to be considered in the 6 (albeit low 6) bracket. For instance if Lady and Lilith's upkeeps were swapped I would probably not question it at all. Granted Lilith is also very good, but when compared to Lady it's really hard to downplay Lady's cutscene feats compared to Lilith's gameplay feats and loadout (which admittedly are super super good, but cutscenes almost always will trump a pure gameplay argument most of the time. Unless you are Kefka and a god of magic or somesuch.)

Edit: Though even if in an ideal scenario in which Grigori is able to fly, Lady does have lock on homing rockets with Kalina Ann. That'd be an interesting fight to see if Lady could endure Grigori's assault long enough for her to notice he takes minimal damage outside of his weak spot. I kind of can see her winning that unless she had some sort of debuff in terms to her insane athleticism.
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You really think normal guns can hurt Grigori that much?
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Kalina Ann could hurt Grigori
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On Grigori's weak spot? Absolutely. Rockets from Kalina Ann are going to hurt Grigori too, but again he has super pain tolerance / damage reduction to anything that isn't his weak spot. Homing rockets if you figure out his gimmick through trial and error is really going to be bad for him. It's the matter of being able to survive long enough in a 1v1, and I think Lady is one of the mercs that can survive him that long.
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Even Dracula takes over 160 rockets to kill
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Soma Cruz's rocket launcher sucks. Does less damage than a Fleaman hit.
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Like I know this match is absolutely not going to revolve around Lady vs. Grigori (I haven't even read 1. the arguments and 2. the terrain simply because the match is a turbo stomp and my vote isn't even counted) in this case, but yeah I think she'd win almost every fight against him in a straight up 1v1. In a team fight scenario who the hell knows.
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Soma Cruz knows his rocket launcher sucks and he uses real mans moves like whirling super large axes in circles. Also did you know Soma can fall from obscene heights without damage! Thanks DC for this tidbit of knowledge.
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Doesn't his weak spot need to be uncovered first before it can be attacked? I admit it has been a while since I played Dragon's Dogma. Even then, I just don't think Lady has the power to actually kill Grigori herself, especially not before Grigori takes her out. Lady IS just a normal human I think? Being Arkham's daughter doesn't make her a weird supernatural person right?
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Neo is 'only human'
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Obviously her feats pet her at like, super-peak-human but I mean... hm well she IS from DMC4:SE which means she like, fights for real Dante and Credo and such so maybe I underestimate her
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Drakeryn posted...

I would totally take Lady to 1v1 Grigori unless Grigori decided to 100% abuse his flight to stay out of her range and firebomb

Lady just doesn't have an answer to a Grigori bodyslam though, honestly. She's on a building? Grigori knocks down the entire building with her on it.

And like, let's do a damage calculation for Grigori here. The best longbow, Revenant Wail in Dragon's Dogma deals 800 base damage. Grigori has 260 defense. So, that means the best longbow deals damage to Grigori 540 damage without any modifiers.

Grigori has 100k health. Assuming 1 arrow = 1 bullet here, she'd have to fire 185 bullets straight into his weak point unerringly, all while dodging a sky-scraper length dragon with huge amounts of flame breath.

Personally I don't think Lady has the capabilities to both identify that weak point and not get hit eventually. She's good but she's definitively not that good.

Lady survives a fight against not trying Dante, which is a feat in itself I feel. I would say that Dante pretty much ends up killing most 5 upkeep mercs not "trying". I might be overestimating this though, Lopen knows DMC far more than I. Since all I did was watch DMC4 cutscenes and assorted DMC3 ones. But iirc, after Dante vs. Lady happens he thoroughly defeats her, and has a good laugh while she's just really tired but otherwise fairly uninjured.
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I just dont think she has the capabilities to pull it off, she would have to get very lucky I feel
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It's debatable. Depends on how much damage you think Kalina Ann does to Grigori and how fast she figures out the really noticeable weak spot on Grigori's belly might be a good spot to try shooting. And if you think Lady is able to outlast his assault. I'm in the latter camp that she figures it out but I can certainly understand if people think Grigori beats Lady. He lands one good hit and she's going to be reeling tbqh.
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greengravy294 posted...

Lady survives a fight against not trying Dante, which is a feat in itself I feel.

Lady survives a fight against a Dante who actively gets himself shot fighting her so she doesn't die. He's holding back 24/7 and he's NEVER fighting her with an ounce of malice.

Every single time they meet he styles over her. Missile from Kalina Ann? Surfs it into the ceiling. Shoots at him with bullets? He shoots his own bullets into them in bullet-time mode. Hand to hand combat? Don't even dream of her coming close to him.

Dante is in such a league different to Lady it's ridiculous to compare the two in the same sentence. In Devil May Cry humans are on a power level so different to (named) Demons it's ridiculous. Her most impressive feats in that game is clearing mooks with explosives and even that she has to TRY and TRY HARD to achieve, utilizing everything she has available to her.

Lady is strong and she is great. But against big, strong and tough opponents like Grigori with huge AoE attacks? She genuinely is out of her league and class.

greengravy294 posted...

Lady survives a fight against not trying Dante, which is a feat in itself I feel. I would say that Dante pretty much ends up killing most 5 upkeep mercs not "trying". I might be overestimating this though, Lopen knows DMC far more than I. Since all I did was watch DMC4 cutscenes and assorted DMC3 ones. But iirc, after Dante vs. Lady happens he thoroughly defeats her, and has a good laugh while she's just really tired but otherwise fairly uninjured.

To add to this, based on the gameplay videos I've seen, the Dragon's Dogma party seems kind of clumsy/clunky. I'm thinking Grigori has never faced an individual enemy of Lady's skill before.
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Alany posted...

Assuming 1 arrow = 1 bullet here, she'd have to fire 185 bullets straight into his weak point unerringly

So with her rate of fire this takes a few seconds. Good selling Lady over Grigori here
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Drakeryn posted...

I'm thinking Grigori has never faced an individual enemy of Lady's skill before.

Grigori is a dragon the size of a sky scraper. I don't think "Skill" matters as much as "Running speed" here. And her, being human, is going to run out of breath really damn quickly. There's nowhere to hide from him to catch her breath and she can't kill him in 10 bullets here.

Grigori could just, breathe fire on where Lady is and Lady just kinda falls to that. I don't think she can take hits from Grigori like the Arisen and the pawns can.
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Alany posted...

Dante is in such a league different to Lady it's ridiculous to compare the two in the same sentence.

While this is all true (I just watched a cut scene of Lady vs. Dante before the boss fight, and most of what you said earlier is true) he is shooting to kill her a few times. I mean, yes I also could say that the bullets he fired were to intercept the bullets she is firing...but I digress.

Okay yeah, totally not in the same league in the cutscene I watched. In fact the canonical fight between the two Dante may not have actually damaged her on purpose. But it doesn't take away from her own feats that she fought Dante and lived even if he wasn't trying to kill her. Because if you bring in someone like Crono and give her Lady's personality [and weaponry, just let's say that he can use Kalina Ann and her SMGs, etc] trying to kill Dante, he'd end up dying even though Dante as you said 'is just styling on him for fun'. More or less. Just my opinion though.
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Also watching more DMC3 cutscenes he definitely has intention of hurting lady. Quote: "Now stand back or there will be consequences." When he's trying to kill the big bad and she stops him, he has to get her to stand down or whatever. I mean yeah, he's probably not trying hard at all but still, I think it's a feat in and of itself to fight Dante when he's trying to at least incapacitate you so you stop bugging him and not end up dead.
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Honestly I think even Dante would have some amount of trouble killing Grigori, so in my opinion Lady has a near impossible task in doing the same
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I kinda feel like Dante would moonwalk on top of Grigori just for fun but Dante's plot armor is S tier.
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Dante doesn't want to kill Lady but he is trying to incapacitate her and does so seriously, eventually. That she isn't immediately dunked right there is a good endorsement for her. She puts up a decent fight against Dante who is trying to fight with nonlethal means but is otherwise trying
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https://youtu.be/tiP8bv9tmlI?t=123

Also this. A+ reflexes. And she has DMC3 showings as well. I forget what her write up is if it's DMC4SE or DMC4SE + DMC3 but whatever.
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Also is Trish a 6 upkeep merc theoretically because in this video she seems pretty darn good but yeah.
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DMC4 comes after DMC3 so the feats should be valid regardless.
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What Lady shows off against Dante is cool and all, but I just don't see that being good against Grigori
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I'd buy a Trish merc at 6/week if she had a customization to enter battle with her Gloria skin
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It's worth noting that Grigori doesn't even want to fight Arisen because plot and actually expresses disappointment if you die. We probably never see him going all out.
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If a ballista hurts Grigori a rocket launcher can. Especially an awesome one like Lady's. Also if she finds the weakspot Dual SMGs to it would be sick damage. It would take time but she'd have a lot of time I think.
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I feel like any scenario where Lady is able to do well against Grigori is one where Grigori is on the ground not attacking ever
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Hey man Grigori is really good on this terrain according to the terrain write up! The match is a turbo stomp so arguing Lady vs Grigori is an interesting side discussion.

Now if he holds back that kinda sucks, because it's hard to really postulate how he functions at full power besides 'well stuff hurts more' I guess.


But Grigori is great in terms of that it will take time to figure out his weak spot unless you ability hax it with like Everett Branches and they already know, or Beatrix orders etc. Plently of validity of a merc being 6 upkeep if it takes a shitload of time to kill them even if they aren't that great ability wise. For instance my Grigori respect >>>> Ridley's. It's just that Grigori has literally never fought on a terrain that actually suits him. Well besides this fight but I mean this one is super one sided so whatever.
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Thing with Grigori is that I really don't think he just stays in the sky the entire time. He fights often on the ground against the player party in his game. If he's fighting ideally, as in like some ability on him to put him always in the sky then sure. That's one thing Ridley has over him, since Ridley always fights in the air. Grigori also has some pretty nasty abilities on the ground iirc.
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But Lady NEEDS Grigori to never leave the ground in order to stand a chance. To think that Grigori would never enter the air and attack, which would basically kill Lady immediately is a little silly to me. Especially if she does somehow uncover his weak point, I dont see him just staying on the ground for no reason.
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Not sure why she would target it, the weak point only glows because of Arisen. Otherwise all that's there is a conspicuous scar on his chest

https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonsdogma/images/9/9a/Dragonchoice2.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/630?cb=20121012142700
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DeathChicken posted...

Not sure why she would target it, the weak point only glows because of Arisen. Otherwise all that's there is a conspicuous scar on his chest

https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonsdogma/images/9/9a/Dragonchoice2.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/630?cb=20121012142700

Now see this is a really important thing to actually bring up in an actual fight! I'm unsure if Lady actually figures out the weak spot if the weak spot is actually only highlighted by the Arisen pals. Gut says Grigori wins eventually, unless he actually reels from being hit hard on his weak point. But I don't know this.
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Intuition man. Weak scar is the oldest trick in the book
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GANON1025 posted...

But Lady NEEDS Grigori to never leave the ground in order to stand a chance. To think that Grigori would never enter the air and attack, which would basically kill Lady immediately is a little silly to me. Especially if she does somehow uncover his weak point, I dont see him just staying on the ground for no reason.

Well yes Grigori will fly around and do his thing as cited in the boss fight but he also is on the ground doing special moves a good while too. I don't think he stays in flight permanently though.
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Lopen posted...

Intuition man. Weak scar is the oldest trick in the book

wow you really are the worst can you EVER admit that perhaps you are wrong!?!?!?!?!?!? besides yesterday i mean. you admitted you were wrong once but that doesn't count do it a second time pal
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He actually didn't, he came back and said he was never wrong
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I didn't admit I was wrong yesterday actually
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Lopen you suck
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Also I didn't say I was never wrong I said ' you're repeating what I just said perhaps I need to make it more clear ' and then I did.
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Alany posted...

Corrik posted...

What disbelief does it take? Once Scorpion teleports onto Grigori and slays the beast with his hard counter, the enemy team is demoralized. Their biggest threat and teammate went down before their eyes and had no effect on the match.

Corrik. Like, really.

Scorpion does not take down a titanic dragon within one attack. Or ten attacks. Or one hundred.

Grigori has enough strength to snap the chains, if his scales don't just no sell his weapons.

And hell, if he can't? Grigori can just roll over. One dead or removed scorpion.

Grigori can't touch the back of his neck. He has zero defense from the hard counter. It is like asking a Roach to shoot a Jigglypuff floating over top of him that is hitting him with a lollipop.
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also for what its worth i feel as if whatever i quoted lopen saying was wrong and he said okay yeah sure, so thats all that matters to me so suck it "logan penn"

anyway this takes away from this match that grigori loses here...but whatever
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i love you Lopen, as long as you don't join an invisible anti-gravy coalition we are cool also come on discord so we can have cool chats my man
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Alany posted...

Drakeryn posted...

I would totally take Lady to 1v1 Grigori unless Grigori decided to 100% abuse his flight to stay out of her range and firebomb

Lady just doesn't have an answer to a Grigori bodyslam though, honestly. She's on a building? Grigori knocks down the entire building with her on it.

And like, let's do a damage calculation for Grigori here. The best longbow, Revenant Wail in Dragon's Dogma deals 800 base damage. Grigori has 260 defense. So, that means the best longbow deals damage to Grigori 540 damage without any modifiers.

Grigori has 100k health. Assuming 1 arrow = 1 bullet here, she'd have to fire 185 bullets straight into his weak point unerringly, all while dodging a sky-scraper length dragon with huge amounts of flame breath.

Personally I don't think Lady has the capabilities to both identify that weak point and not get hit eventually. She's good but she's definitively not that good.

1 defense in one game and 1 attack in another game could mean drastically different things. That is a bad argument.
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