Poll of the Day > Marvel Vs DC(What If Poll)America Chavez Versus Jessica Cruz

(+) Yeah! (+)

[Marvel]
19.America Chavez
18.Marvel Boy
17.Wiccan
16.Hulkling
15.Kate Bishop
14.Gwenpool
13.Howard The Duck
12.Man-Thing
11.Kid Omega
10.Spider-Gwen
9.War Machine
8.Cyclops
7.Storm
6.Wolverine
5.Deadpool
4.Thor Odinson
3.Iron Man
2.Captain America
1.Spider-Man


[DC]
19.Jessica Cruz
18.Ambush Bug
17.Power Girl
16.Shazam
15.Zatanna
14.Damien Wayne
13.Starfire
12.Cyborg
11.Beast Boy
10.Raven
9.Jason Todd
8.Superboy
7.Donna Troy
6.Red Tornado
5.Harley Quinn
4.The Flash
3.Wonder Woman
2.Superman
1.Batman

as the way everyone wanted from the start
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Probably two of the most obscure characters you could pick... well, I guess you could have gone with one-shot characters from the 50s or 60s. I know nothing about either but, after googling, one goes by Miss America and the other is.... like the umpteenth Green Lantern alternate for Earth? Guess I'll go with Cruz.
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well this is how people wanted the poll to begin with...the low tier characters

and if any of you read comics You'd know Jessica Cruz is on the current version of the main justice league
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NightMareBunny posted...

well this is how people wanted the poll to begin with...the low tier characters

It's the right approach, but they're not names anybody would recognize (except PO) so they probably shouldn't have been used at all. Granted, they're not going to last so it evens out.

NightMareBunny posted...

and if any of you read comics You'd know Jessica Cruz is on the current version of the main justice league

Most people don't.
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which is why i facepalmed at people saying i wasn't using the real versions of the characters if we got technical me using scott lang for ant man wasn't the real ant man
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bump
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Somebody's awfully butthurt
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Zeus posted...

but they're not names anybody would recognize (except PO)

Tee hee!

To be fair, I didn't actually remember who Jessica Cruz was for a bit, until I saw you mention Green Lantern and then I was like, "Oh, right, she's the chick that got Power Ring's evil ring." Which I thought was kind of an interesting concept (ie, someone using a ring that makes you terrified and feeds off your own fear, while trying to resist that fear and use the ring for good) - too bad they eventually destroyed that ring and just gave her a regular Green Lantern ring, turning her into just another generic sort of character.

I did know America Chavez, though, mostly because I LOATHE her as a character. She comes across like all the worst parts of Tumblr somehow gained sentience and decided to make a comic book character, and then they also decided to give her an origin story that is basically "shitty Wonder Woman", combined with writing her as being sort of an asshole. She also one of the original "Hey, let's diversity-pander in a desperate attempt to boost our terrible sales!" prototypes, which means I sort of blame her for a lot of the terrible characters and writing that followed after her as well.

Marvel seems to be moving away from that thinking, though (because it apparently didn't work), so it will be interesting to see what happens to some of those characters now.



NightMareBunny posted...

if we got technical me using scott lang for ant man wasn't the real ant man

At least you didn't use Eric O'Grady.


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The Real Eric O Grady or that weird LMD Eric O Grady?
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Geez lousie, well you're almost there. Now you just have to pick 20 characters that are actually popular. I mean come on, I don't even read comics and I could easily rattle off characters that are way more well known. Like why the hell include hulkling but not the hulk? Wtf even is hulking? Why do this at all if you're going to just pick random characters the average person hasn't heard of? Do you have some weird affinity for hulking?! gah
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NightMareBunny posted...

which is why i facepalmed at people saying i wasn't using the real versions of the characters if we got technical me using scott lang for ant man wasn't the real ant man

I'm not sure you understand the whole concept of "real versions" considering that you originally chose to represent Wolverine with X-23 rather than the Wolverine that most people know (and then Wolverine himself as Old Man Logan or something, which is effectively an alternate universe Wolverine). No matter who's currently wearing the costume, there's always one really iconic incarnation which should take precedence. While Steph Brown has supposedly had a good run as Batgirl, for instance, the public will always see Batgirl as Barbara Gordon. Tim Drake is a phenomenal Robin, but Dick Grayson is the widely accepted Robin... although Tim Drake does have name recognition because of his animated series appearances.

For a character like Ant-Man, who is a c-list hero by mainstream standards, the version doesn't matter as much. We got Scott Lang in film, so he's okay.


ParanoidObsessive posted...

To be fair, I didn't actually remember who Jessica Cruz was for a bit, until I saw you mention Green Lantern and then I was like, "Oh, right, she's the chick that got Power Ring's evil ring." Which I thought was kind of an interesting concept (ie, someone using a ring that makes you terrified and feeds off your own fear, while trying to resist that fear and use the ring for good) - too bad they eventually destroyed that ring and just gave her a regular Green Lantern ring, turning her into just another generic sort of character.

Yeah, it would have helped if he added something like (Green Lantern) next to it. I don't get listing just the secret identity for a character who isn't a massive name.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

I did know America Chavez, though, mostly because I LOATHE her as a character. She comes across like all the worst parts of Tumblr somehow gained sentience and decided to make a comic book character, and then they also decided to give her an origin story that is basically "shitty Wonder Woman", combined with writing her as being sort of an asshole. She also one of the original "Hey, let's diversity-pander in a desperate attempt to boost our terrible sales!" prototypes, which means I sort of blame her for a lot of the terrible characters and writing that followed after her as well.

Reading her wikipedia page made her sound incredibly unpleasant, which is a shame because her character design is incredibly hot and eye candy has occasionally convinced me to pick up a comic.

TheOrangeMisfit posted...

Geez lousie, well you're almost there. Now you just have to pick 20 characters that are actually popular. I mean come on, I don't even read comics and I could easily rattle off characters that are way more well known. Like why the hell include hulkling but not the hulk? Wtf even is hulking? Why do this at all if you're going to just pick random characters the average person hasn't heard of? Do you have some weird affinity for hulking?! gah

I think he picked him because he was going with a Young Avengers theme? A few of the others are Young Avengers as well. The problem is that mainstreamers have no clue who the fuck the Young Avengers are because they're been exclusively featured in comics. Even the Runaways would have been a more practical team since they have a show on the way.
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TheOrangeMisfit posted...

Geez lousie, well you're almost there. Now you just have to pick 20 characters that are actually popular. I mean come on, I don't even read comics and I could easily rattle off characters that are way more well known. Like why the hell include hulkling but not the hulk? Wtf even is hulking? Why do this at all if you're going to just pick random characters the average person hasn't heard of? Do you have some weird affinity for hulking?! gah

Part of the problem is he has this affinity for the modern comics and if we are being completely honest: They suck. Most people don't care about what Spider-Gwen or what black female Iron Man is doing, they want Spiderman and Tony Stark. Those are the ones in the movies, those are the ones that originally sold the comics, those are the ones that people care about. Marvel and DC themselves (well, the comic book divisions at least) don't even realize this which is why sales are in the crapper. Granted, you can't tell the same story 100 times and expect people to read it, but at least give me something recognizable to draw me in!

I mean yea I would have a hard time naming 20 DC characters to put on the list, but I can name at least 20 Marvel characters that almost everyone would recognize, and not even half of them are here.
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Dikitain posted...

Most people don't care about what Spider-Gwen or what black female Iron Man is doing, they want Spiderman and Tony Stark.

The irony is, Spider-Gwen is actually a pretty strong argument against the usual SJW/Tumblrite cries of "You just hate diversity in comics because you're white cis-male scum!" Because a lot of people DO like her.

The online comic community pretty much LOVED the idea of Spider-Gwen. They also took a strong shine to Ms. Marvel (in spite of being a teenage Muslim girl who spouts memes!), and a lot of people like the new Blue Beetle (and most who didn't mostly just hated the fact that Ted Kord had to die to make room for him). Even Miles Morales eventually earned a bit of begrudging praise (in spite of the same "I hate him because they killed Peter to make room for him" backlash that followed his introduction).

When diversity characters are written well, and are actually given a worthwhile reason to exist within the context of their own narrative (AND when they don't have to shit on preexisting characters to justify them), they can easily become somewhat popular. Because - SURPRISE! - people tend to like well-written characters.

On the other hand, when you shit on a character like Thor with almost no narrative justification, just to shoehorn a woman into his role, then use her to make shitty and painfully forced Gamergate references and completely retcon the personalities of secondary characters so you can go "WOMG MISOGYNY! LOL", people are going to hate that character, and they're going to hate you for introducing them. And the more out-of-left-field or "we're doing this solely for the sake of pandering" one of those changes seems, the more people are going to hate it.

For as much as people go "Man, you only hate Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel because she's a woman!", it's interesting to note that the online comic community was actually much more accepting of an alien lesbian from outer space as Captain Marvel. Because that character was actually cooler and more interesting, and Carol is quite possibly the blandest female character Marvel has ever created and artificially forced into a major leading role.

Spider-Gwen actually worked in the context of the story, and so far, at least, tends to be written relatively well. She was a "diversity character" that was never actually meant to stick around, and who wound up getting more story time BECAUSE she became popular. She wasn't shoe-horned into stories where she didn't belong, they didn't have to kill "real" Peter off to make room for her, and she doesn't come across like she's being written by a 12-year old who spends way too much time on Internet message boards.

The whole teenage black girl Iron Man angle is definitely stupid, though, mainly because of how forced and artificial it feels. At least when they tried to push the idea of Pepper having her own suit of armor for a while it was a lot more organic to the narrative (though even that was kind of annoying, but mostly because the comics brought back a character who had been gone for like 30 years and radically changed her relationship with Tony solely because all comics have to perfectly mirror the movies these days).


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Zeus posted...

one goes by Miss America and the other is....

Didn't realize Marvel was still using the Battle Fever characters from the old Toei contracts.
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Nichtcrawler X posted...

Didn't realize Marvel was still using the Battle Fever characters from the old Toei contracts.

Marvel created their first Miss America character in 1943. Toei made their own version of the character in the same way they used Spider-Man.

The modern Miss America character (and the Toei one, for that matter) is completely unrelated to the original character other than using the same name.

The irony being that the modern character isn't actually even American. She's a girl from another dimension whose first name just happens to be "America" (and may be straight-up based on America Ferrera, when you consider how they usually draw her).



(Semi-Related Fun Fact: The original Miss America was implied to be the birth mother of Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch before they were later revealed to be Magneto's kids. She supposedly died in childbirth, whereupon the babies were given to the Maximoffs, a gypsy family that lived nearby, who raised them.)

(Even-Less-Related Fun Fact: Miss America was married to another WWII-era super-hero named "The Whizzer", whose power was running really fast. As opposed to having super-powered piss. Though he DID wear yellow.)


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

(Even-Less-Related Fun Fact: Miss America was married to another WWII-era super-hero named "The Whizzer", whose power was running really fast. As opposed to having super-powered piss. Though he DID wear yellow.)

That part kinda fits with the characters I know from the 90's Spiderman.
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Also she's from a lesbian universe
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